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13 year old missing girl found in older man's hotel room

korbel

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Techman said:
Korbel, I don't care how 'innocent' or not these kids may happen to be. NO ADULT has any right to have any kind of sexual relationship with a child! There is no justification or excuse for this! The fact that anyone on this board, supposedly made up of grown thinking adults, can assign any blame to a 13 year old is insane.

And I'm not sorry to correct you, but software does exist, including Vista, that cannot be bypassed by even the smartest of kids. A properly installed and set up system will not be circumvented even by a knowledgeable, trained adult. Parents should take the time to protect their children or they shouldn't have them in the first place. They are not pets.

Techman
Well Techman,

Regarding the first paragraph, I have already said this long before you chimed in on this thread. We agree completely. So! I have been on this board for a long time. Can you show me where anyone ever said an adult should be able to have sexual relationships with a child.???

Regarding the second paragraph, yes, I thought there was but I am not as aware as those who make computers their profession. The main problem then would be...do the parents have it...do they know how to use it properly? Remember your own past caviat about half the people being stupid or something like that. So how many do you think will get properly trained?????

Cheers,

Korbel
 
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Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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Korbel,
Those who are trying to shift the blame on the 13 yr old girl are pretty much saying just that don't you think?

When it comes to the computer and protecting the kids who use it, don't you think that after a couple of years of these kind of incidents being in the news that parents should be bright enough to finally take a bit of responsibility? It has nothing to do with being properly trained but it does have everything to do with being properly informed. Parents bitch about the violence in video games but do nothing to protect their children from the real threat that computers can pose.

A little research can go a long way. So can a couple of questions asked when buying the computer. But most people just don't give a shit and get their kids a computer so that they will stay out of their parents hair at night.

Techman

PS: Sorry if you had already taken a similar stand. I came late to this thread and didn't have the time to read it all. It's just that seeing people trying to shift even a portion of the blame on the girl pissed me off and I just had to get it off my chest.
 

Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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Roland said:
Hi Korbie,

Not my turn...but I have something to say.

Parents just need to be parents.Parents care about their kids.Doesn't matter what means..parental controls is a small part of it.
Grounding,curfew,being concerned about their friends...whatever....

They just need to care , and do their job.At a young age, the kids are confused.Hormones running rampant..boyfriends dumping girlfriends and vice-versa..changes in schools ..There is so much going on...they need stability and the parents can give them that.Sometimes more often than not, the kids complain and cry about it...but they really understand that the parents make things safe for them.That's what they need.Safety , guidance ..and a lot of understanding.

Roland

I agree completely. And I think that the lack of such a caring environment is exactly what drives some of these young kids into these kind of situations. They are seeking the love, comfort and security that they don't feel at home and are willing to do whatever it takes to get it.

But what can we expect in a society where children are essentially raised by strangers in daycare who become more of a family to them than they have at home and the parents become the strangers?
 

korbel

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Techman said:
Korbel,
Those who are trying to shift the blame on the 13 yr old girl are pretty much saying just that don't you think?

Hello Techman,

No, I think people are just trying to deal with reports that the girl seemed to know who this guy was and still went on with further communications culminating in a shared hotel stay. It's shocking information. Even you said both parties knew exactly who the other was. We all agree the onus was 100% on the adult to do the right thing. When we hear the 13 year old girl knew who he was and still went to the hotel we grasp desperately to understand. Sure the parents didn't do their job. Sure she was vulnerable. Sure the 31 year old behaved criminally. Still, we want to understand why she carrried out an insane situation despite all the inadequacies at home and the obvious danger signals we all can see. I don't think anyone is shifting blame....more like groping for an explanation.

Hmmm,

Korbel
 

Doc Holliday

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Daringly said:
Lets keep this simple, if he knew her age and it appears he did, then lock the bastard up and throw away the key. This in my opinion would be letting him off far to easy but at least it will keep a phedophile where he belongs permanently.

I totally agree. But they should deport him back to his country & free our taxpayers from the burden of paying the costs to lock up this sicko (if indeed he's guilty).

I have a question: let's say that the guy is mentally handicapped, with the mindset of a 12 year old. Would he still be considered as guilty? Just a thought.
 

korbel

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Doc Holliday said:
I have a question: let's say that the guy is mentally handicapped, with the mindset of a 12 year old. Would he still be considered as guilty? Just a thought.
Hello Doc,

Oops, I have the feeling speculating for any diminishment of this guy's guilt is going to anger some here. Really, I don't think exploring the realm of every possibility is legitimate unless there is some solid indication there is cause to think is real. In any case, we all think he's sick. But that doesn't lessen his guilt.

Cheers,

Korbel
 

korbel

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Daringly said:
Korbel,

Lets not put blame where it belongs that makes no sense. How is this for a theory the guy probably thought the girl was born on a leap year, her birthdate being feb 29th, Now as we know leap year babies only have a birthday every 4 years so this guy probably thought her real age was 13 x 4= 52 may god bless him for trying to date a 52 yr old:)
Hey Daringly,

I blame the guy 100%. So WHAT are you talking about??? Can you explain what your first line refers to??? You could have at least cited what you are referring to in your funny post.

Strange,

Korbel
 

Tracy

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Maxima said:
Tracy et al,

This is for your information.
Montreal Police: "We have no doubt that the little girl and the gentleman knew each other's age, so this is why the luring charges will come against this gentleman this morning,"

As per CTV news



http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080616/Child_luring_080616/20080616?hub=Newsletter

See this came out after what was writtten in the Gazette. (not as much info in the article that was written that day I guess)

I was not trying to shift blame onto the girl, but again if they both know each others real age... Yes, the guy is f-ed for continuing to even correspond with her on the internet and then on top of it to accept her to his hotel room, but what was going through the mind of the 13 year old to meet a strange grown man at a hotel?
I would love to hear her side of the incident.
And as for her parents... I think they need some help on how to protect thier kids... and everyone thinks I am an overprotective parent.... I am now proud to be called as such.
 

Tracy

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My next question though... was there anything sexual going on or even planned?
 

korbel

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Tracy said:
See this came out after what was writtten in the Gazette. (not as much info in the article that was written that day I guess)

I was not trying to shift blame onto the girl, but again if they both know each others real age... Yes, the guy is f-ed for continuing to even correspond with her on the internet and then on top of it to accept her to his hotel room, but what was going through the mind of the 13 year old to meet a strange grown man at a hotel?
I would love to hear her side of the incident.
And as for her parents... I think they need some help on how to protect thier kids... and everyone thinks I am an overprotective parent.... I am now proud to be called as such.

Hello Tracy,

In regards to the law, as well as morality, the guy is the responsible part as an adult 100%. However, it is not shifting responsibility to recognize that had the girl not followed through this could not have happened. Because she is clearly a minor, the full responsibility falls on the man in this case. Still, how can anyone not be curious why she kept going. Isn't knowing this side helpful to any parents, if they are good parents, in trying to prevent any girl's interest in such things? So her motivations are very relevant to understanding this episode.

Concerned,

Korbel
 

Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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Hi Tracy,

According to the news this morning, the guy has been charged with sexual assault.

CTV.ca News Staff
A Belgian man suspected of luring a young Montreal girl over the Internet appeared in court Monday and was formally charged with six criminal offences, including sexual assault.
During the short proceedings in a Montreal courtroom, Vincent Raphael Duval was charged with sexual interference, sexual touching, kidnapping, as well as three counts of luring with a computer.

As far as parents needing help to protect their kids is concerned, I feel that parents should make it their number one priority to find out how to protect their kids from this kind of situation. It's not like this is the first time this happens, or hits the news, but typical parents think that it would never happen to their little angel. The same way that they think their little angel would never come home pregnant or do drugs. If a family installs a swimming pool they take care that their kids are never near it alone. They should think of an internet connected computer as a swimming pool that is 100' deep with very big waves.

It takes less than an hour to learn how to secure a computer for your kids to use and maybe 50 or 75 bucks for the software if you don't use Vista. And the PC should be in a common area of the home where the child does not have private access to the net. It is not that difficult.

Techman
 

Doc Holliday

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Belgian man and Mtl teen planned life together in Ont. community, court told

MONTREAL - A Belgian man and a smitten 13-year-old girl planned to settle in an Amish community in Ontario where they believed no one would question their 20-year age difference, a courtroom heard Friday.

As Vincent Duval pleaded guilty to six sex-related charges during a scheduled bail hearing, the Crown revealed its wealth of evidence against the native of Liege. Duval, 32, pleaded guilty on Friday to one count each of sexual interference, sexual touching, kidnapping and three counts of luring with a computer. The charges relate to incidents that allegedly happened between October 2007 and last weekend.

Crown prosecutor Nathalie Fafard told the court that the girl's mother called police on June 13 after arriving at her school and hearing that her daughter had left earlier in the day. A crossing guard spotted the girl leaving with Duval after the teen forged a note from her mother saying she had a medical appointment and wouldn't be returning to class.

The online relationship between Duval and the girl began in October 2007 when they met on a web site and she had passed herself off as being either 25 or 26, Fafard said. The relationship blossomed over e-mail - more than 3,000 missives between the pair through Hotmail accounts - until the girl's mother caught wind of what her daughter was up to in February.

The girl had received a cellular phone at Christmas and managed to rack up a $525 phone bill by calling Belgium. Fafard said the girl's relationship with Duval and her parents' interference caused a fracas within the family.

The Crown said the mother called Duval in Belgium and told him that her daughter was just 13 and that the budding online romance had to end. Fafard said that Duval agreed, but the contact between the two continued by simply changing e-mail addresses and phone numbers.

After the attempt to thwart their growing love affair, the pair began hatching an elaborate plan to be together. Before deciding on Duval's move to Canada, they mulled over where it would be socially acceptable for a man to live with a teenager and discussed Israel as a possibility. However, the girl did not have a passport. They then looked at Amish communities in North America, eventually settling on one in Ontario. They planned to board a bus in Montreal and never return, Fafard said.

Duval purchased a one-way plane ticket and arrived from Belgium on June 12 with his entire savings - C$3,200 - all his clothes, a laptop, webcam, cellular telephone and no credit card. Even though the girl had given him directions from the airport to her school, he failed on his first attempt to find her. They eventually met up the following day before the mother reported the girl missing, prompting a city-wide manhunt until a hotel clerk recognized Duval in the wee hours of June 14.

Montreal police caught Duval in bed with the girl at a St-Hubert Street hotel in a dingy neighbourhood near the Montreal bus station. Among the items seized was a letter addressed to the girl's parents that was never sent. Duval, a computer specialist in Brussels, has no criminal record, Fafard said.

Duval had originally pleaded not guilty during his arraignment, but after realizing the amount of evidence against him, he decided to change his plea, defence lawyer Jeffrey Boro said. "He examined the evidence and he decided that according to our laws, he was guilty of the crimes," Boro said. "He's a 32-year-old man who apparently fell in love with a 13-year-old girl," Boro said.

Sentencing arguments are scheduled for July 3. For a picture of the accused, see below:

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2008/06/20/5941131-cp.html
 

Doc Holliday

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Belgian man not a sex maniac, lawyer says

18 months enough jail time, court told. But Crown says strong message must be sent to 31-year-old involved with 13-year-old girl

According to his lawyer, Vincent Duval's intense feelings for a 13-year-old girl don't mean he's a pedophile, or a sex maniac, but rather a man whose notion of love may be unacceptable to society.

And that's why the 31-year-old Belgian who met the girl over the Internet, then came to Montreal in hopes of building a life with her, shouldn't receive more than 18 months in jail, Jeffrey Boro told Quebec Court yesterday.

"I'm not minimizing what he did, but the sentence should reflect what he did," Boro said outside the courtroom. "He has to pay for what he did, but there's a price to pay for it.

"It doesn't merit a sentence of five years."

Duval, at times tearing up in the prisoners' box, told court yesterday that when he met the girl online, she said she was 26. By the time she told him her real age, he'd already fallen deeply in love with her.

"I knew the risk," said Duval, who pleaded guilty last month to six sex-related charges, including three counts of luring a minor over the Internet, and one each of sexual touching, invitation to sexual touching and abduction. "But I loved her."

Crown prosecutor Nathalie Fafard said the sentence must send a strong message, since this is the first case in Canada in which a person overseas met a minor online, then came to Canada with the intention of taking her somewhere else.

"It's frightening that someone can come into our homes and exploit our children without us knowing," Fafard said in suggesting a five-year prison term.

The girl's mother, after discovering a large cellphone bill, called Duval in the middle of the night in Belgium and told him to leave her daughter alone.

Duval said the girl suggested the couple wait until she was 18 to get together, but they were unable to help themselves.

Last month, Duval flew to Montreal and waited outside the girl's private French school for her. They then went to a hotel on St. Hubert St. and planned to head to an Amish community in Ontario, where he thought their relationship would be more acceptable.

But when the girl didn't return home from school, her mother called police, who searched hotels until they found the couple in bed.

Fafard said tests done on the girl showed they had not had intercourse.

Duval is to be sentenced July 24.
 

mass1965

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A girl in Vermont was not so lucky:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/02/missing.vermont.girl/index.html?eref=rss_us

(CNN) -- The uncle of a 12-year-old Vermont girl whose body was found Wednesday will face federal kidnapping charges, the U.S. attorney for the district of Vermont announced Thursday.

An autopsy is taking place Thursday and the suspect, Michael Jacques, could face further charges if the death of Brooke Bennett is ruled homicide, U.S. Attorney Thomas Anderson said.
Brooke Bennett, 12, had been missing since June 25 and appears to be the victim of foul play.

Brooke's remains were found Wednesday afternoon in a fresh grave off a road in the town of Randolph, about 60 miles southeast of Burlington, Vermont.

"It appears to be foul play," said Col. James Baker, the director of the Vermont State Police.





If these guys are found guilty they should get life in my opinion. 5 years isnt long enough:mad:
 

korbel

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mass1965 said:
A girl in Vermont was not so lucky:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/02/missing.vermont.girl/index.html?eref=rss_us

(CNN) -- The uncle of a 12-year-old Vermont girl whose body was found Wednesday will face federal kidnapping charges, the U.S. attorney for the district of Vermont announced Thursday.

An autopsy is taking place Thursday and the suspect, Michael Jacques, could face further charges if the death of Brooke Bennett is ruled homicide, U.S. Attorney Thomas Anderson said.
Brooke Bennett, 12, had been missing since June 25 and appears to be the victim of foul play.

Brooke's remains were found Wednesday afternoon in a fresh grave off a road in the town of Randolph, about 60 miles southeast of Burlington, Vermont.

"It appears to be foul play," said Col. James Baker, the director of the Vermont State Police.





If these guys are found guilty they should get life in my opinion. 5 years isnt long enough:mad:
Hello Mass1965,

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/02/missing.vermont.girl/index.html?eref=rss_us

The relative Jacques is accused of assaulting told detectives that he had been having sex with her since she was 9. She also told investigators she had a sexual encounter with Brooke's former stepfather, Ray Gagnon, in June 2007.

According to the affidavit, the girl recounted how when she was 9 she found a note under her pillow that said she had been chosen to be in a program for sex called "Breckenridge." She was told that her "trainer" was Jacques. She told authorities that to graduate she had to attain a 75 percent on "how you perform."

According to the same affidavit, the girl said Jacques picked Brooke up on June 25 and told her they would be going to a party. The girl told police she understood Brooke would be "taken into the 'Breckenridge' program that day, and that she would have sex with adult males."

The girl stated that she, Brooke and Jacques then went to Jacques' home where the two girls watched television until Jacques asked Brooke to come upstairs to be with him. The girl said she never saw Brooke again and that Jacques ordered her to lie about what happened that day, according to the affidavit.

If this story is accurate, people who do the things described here are so far beyond sympathy, redemption, and hope that I tend to label them as "human waste" regardless of any possible personal history of their own. The possibility of anyone like this committing the same atrocity again should be... "eliminated".

Truly,

Korbel
 
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