Merlot, You might be the one exploiting an escort by using Amanda's misfortune in your attempt to make a point. Did you get her consent? Does she even object to the Amnesty conclusions?
Merlot, I dont have any problem with your perception of sex work conditions in general. You're middle of the road. I see things pretty much the same way as Captain Renault. But he is not middle of the road, just like me. Amnesty has a position closer to yours, with an emphatic starting point: a huge level of violence in sex work. The thing is, however, that Montréal is in no way representative.
In Canada, 93% of sex trafficking victims come from Canada, not other countries.[ii]
In 2013, the Canadian Women’s Foundation conducted a national survey of community service providers, who reported serving a total of 2,872 trafficked girls and women in one year. We also consulted with 160 women from across Canada who identified themselves as trafficked.
67% of Canadians agree that Canadian girls under the age of 16 are being recruited/trafficked to work in prostitution against their will.[iii]
Canada does not currently have a standard system for tracking incidents of sex trafficking: national, coordinated research is necessary for sustainable data collection.
Currently, incidents of sex trafficking are recorded only when they involve law enforcement or federal agencies. Like with other types of sexual or physical violence, victims rarely come forward to report being trafficked. For example, fewer than 10% of sexual assaults are reported to the police and given their experiences of control and coercion, trafficking victims are likely even less able to report their abuse. When trafficked women do come into contact with the law, they are often seen as criminals or consensual participants in the sex industry, not victims.[/I]
I can't believe you fall for this bullshit, Merlot. These number either mean absolutely nothing (93%) or are irrelevant (67%) or are made up (2872 and 10%) and thery are provided by a fundation that need donors.
How far would you like to rig this discussion in your favor?
You went off in your own direction and created a straw man basically asking others to prove that bad things don't happen and that assholes don't exist. I can't do that so you win.
This issue isn't so simple to me though, as some others mentioned legality would have its pitfalls, ...The entire regulatory structure would be created by ex-execs from McBrothel & Hairytaco Bell, i.e., the industry experts called on to head the DOP, while the honest Jessys, Jimmys, Martins & Mikes would all be squeezed out of business as compliance costs make small operations uncompetitive, and the rest of us are all left arguing whether the 50% up-charge for a BBHJ over a CHJ is worth it.
I do not dispute that a dark side exists in this business, but I am not convinced that women in the lower-end of the business will see an improvement in their lives if sex work were magically eliminated. I think they would just make less money and have even shittier lives, and likely participate in more dangerous and violent crimes to get drug money. If definitely does not make sense to punish the higher-end providers (or their customers) that we all know and love because of the dark side of the industry that they are not part of.
There will always be poverty, exploitation, violence and drug abuse at the lowest segment of society, regardless of whether there is sex work. I am quite certain that the relatively higher pay available to sex workers has allowed more than a few ladies to have in fact escaped horrible family situations and horrible neighborhoods that would have caused them to have fallen victim to those bad things. Those are the untold stories that are the bright spot. Like it or not, money is everything, and that can end up being a good thing of bad thing. The dark side of life is not going away, sex work or not.
http://www.canadianwomen.org/facts-about-sex-trafficking-in-canada
Isn’t sex trafficking more of a problem in other countries, but not Canada?
In Canada, 93% of sex trafficking victims come from Canada, not other countries....
OOOOPS! But you deny all of this because your conscience says none of it ever happened. Right Capt. :crazy:
I can't believe you fall for this bullshit, Merlot. These number either mean absolutely nothing (93%) or are irrelevant (67%) or are made up (2872 and 10%) and thery are provided by a fundation that need donors.
If gays didn't challenge homosexuality laws in canada during the 60's it would have stayed a criminal offense in 2015Well best statement, law change is not always for the best
r
women who are unattractive are against it not because they can't make money off of sex work but because sex workers who are more attractive compete them. I have found the statements that women who are unattractive are against this because they can't make money off of sex work silly.
So why do you suddenly start citing "statistics" about trafficking?
18 women rescued in Canada-wide human-trafficking investigation: police
'Chasing the money': Sex workers lured to oil-rich Alberta, undercover human-trafficking probe finds
Trafficking in Persons Report 2015
http://www.state.gov/j/tip/rls/tiprpt/2015/index.htm
The Canadian Women's Foundation relied on a report by the RCMP on Human Trafficking when it came up with the statement that "In Canada, 93% of sex trafficking victims come from Canada, not other countries".
http://www.canadianwomen.org/facts-about-sex-trafficking-in-canada
After digging a bit, one finds out that while they are making reference to a report by the RCMP, they are in fact quoting the National Action Plan to Combat Human Trafficking, which was published in March 2014:
Crime is on the decline almost everywhere in USA and Canada, rapidly ans consistently for at least 20 years. Sex work related accusations have followed the same tendancies, both in USA and Canada. Part of it may be due to changes in priorities of prosecutors and LE, but I doubt very much it's only that.
Après que Merlot m'ait demandé la permission de me citer en exemple, je me suis empressée de trouver le post en question. Bien que je sois en faveur de la décriminalisation de la prostitution, il est légitime d'ouvrir les yeux face aux divers problèmes liés à l'industrie du sexe. Il y a définitievement quelque chose de pourri... Il ne s'agit pas toujours de contes de fées...Adresser les problématiques me semble juste.
You also refused to acknowledge Amanda's trouble with guys making some large threats or that the incident indicated the same situation i was talking about.
As for what happened to Mlle. Amanda, though I don't know her, I feel bad for her that a crazy man harassed her with vulgar text messages. However, I view what happened to her as an example of the bad things that happen to escorts when the anti-prostitution fanatics succeed in passing laws like C-36. If Amanda's line of work were fully decriminalized (for both her and her clients) then she would feel more confident in complaining to the police about the threats made against her.
And Captain, if you had read the article it does mention trafficking...Amnesty International considers human trafficking abhorrent in all of its forms, including sexual exploitation, and should be criminalized as a matter of international law. This is explicit in this new policy and all of Amnesty International’s work.
This thread started out as a discussion of the decriminalization of prostitution and not the decriminalization of trafficking. Though opponents and proponents of the decriminalization of prostitution may not agree on the precise definition of trafficking, no one in Canada, the United States or any civilized country is arguing for the decriminalization of trafficking. Even I, the evil Capt. Renault, believe that trafficking should be against the law and violators should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
So why do you suddenly start citing "statistics" about trafficking? First, I don't accept at face value any statistics on trafficking published by a left-wing feminist, anti-prostitution organization like the Canadian Women's Foundation. More importantly, just like the prostitution abolitionists/prohibitionists, you are trying to equate the practices of prostitution and trafficking. Arguing for the equivalency of prostitution with trafficking is one of the main tactics used by left-wing, feminist anti-prostitution groups (conservative and religious anti-prostitution groups tend to use moral and religious arguments, with which I also disagree).
A well-known and respected scholar on the sex industry, Dr. Ronald Weitzer (professor of sociology at George Washington University, PhD from Cal Berkeley) has specifically addressed this topic in the following article. Here are the cite and some excerpts [emphasis mine]:
THE JOURNAL OF CRIMINAL LAW & CRIMINOLOGY
Vol. 101, No. 4 2012
SEX TRAFFICKING AND THE SEX INDUSTRY:THE NEED FOR EVIDENCE-BASED THEORY AND LEGISLATION
RONALD WEITZER
...In order to further discredit the practice of prostitution and delegitimize systems where prostitution is legal and regulated by the government, oppression writers have fused prostitution with sex trafficking.
Donna Hughes claims that “most ‘sex workers’ are or originally started out as trafficked women and girls.” She then calls for “re-linking trafficking and prostitution, and combating the commercial sex trade as a whole.”
There is no evidence that “most” or even the majority of prostitutes have been trafficked. It is important to recognize that as recently as fifteen years ago, trafficking was not a routine part of the discourse regarding prostitution...
Knee-jerk dismissal of stats because you don't like the organization publishing them is very short-sighted.
Not sure if anyone else has posted this, but it is an interesting follow-up after the vote, and an excellent discussion of the state of affairs throughout the world and gives a lot of interesting history.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/08/magazine/should-prostitution-be-a-crime.html?_r=1