Apple releases iPad...

[Below500k]

Hey TM,

Here's the rub...

Market share is irrelevant. It is the result of cost, licensing, and fantastic business arrangements that went on many years ago. It is an old argument for those in the industry, for shareholders, for anyone BUT end users. The critical mass of survival and profitability of the respective platforms has long ago passed. MS has proven that they can dominate by making decent useful products, fantastic distribution and business-savvy licensing agreements, and great support for their developers.

Apple has proven that that domination is irrelevant to their survival and now great success.

So to use that argument does not logically make sense, rather I would think the opposite is true. With everything that Apple has done "wrong" throughout the years, with all of that market share stacked up against them, do you really think that it would be possible that they survived if their products were NOT "great"?

Please remember that although it is nice to throw around low percentage numbers when it comes to OS market share, you are still talking about about 100's of millions of people, and complete domination in many industry segments.

So while I do feel your pain as my significant other insists that her 200 face cream works better than Ponds, I do not think that liking, or talking about something that you feel passionate about = that the product is not good. Nor that the other is better just because it sells more. That is a Colbert "the market has spoken" argument.

Netbooks are netbooks, kindles are kindles, gps's, psp's, portable dvd players, phones etc. etc. The iPad will do 80+% of what all of those individual devices do, controlled by a single OS, and all wrapped up in a 1" thick, well designed form factor.

There is a massive population that will find carrying that single device serves them very, very well. Count on it.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

When I talk about oudated hardware in the Windows world, I'm talking about hardware that is at least 8 to 10 years old. Not 2 or 3 years old like some expensive power pc cpu Macs. I'm also talking about peripherals, not systems, which could easily be replaced at minimal cost for vastly improved capabilities.

Sorry, your talking in circles doesn't work. Why, if you'd care to explain, are you so envious of Apple? Is it that they invented the graphic computer? Is it that they invented the MP3 player? Is it that they revolutionized the smartphone? Is it that they invented the tablet? Why don't you just buy some Apple stock and enjoy the ride?

 

[Techman]

Apple invented the tablet? Could you please tell me exactly when they did that? Invented the MP3 player? Wrong again. MP3 players were on the market in 1998, the first iPod hit the market in 2001. Invented the graphic computer? Wrong again. Revolutionized the smartphone? I'd give that one to RIM and the Blackberry but I will give Apple the home consumer market.

Envious of Apple? Not in any way. But I do feel sorry for the brainwashed drones who seem to be so enthralled by them.

Below500K...an iPad can do 80% of what a netbook can do? Really? It can multitask, connect to an almost unlimited number of peripherals, run an almost unlimited variety of software, have expandable storage and memory, display any web site regardless of content? No. Can it make phone calls like a smartphone or iPhone? No. Can it record video or take pictures with an integrated camera like just about every phone on the market or even an iPod Touch or iPhone? Ummm, no, it can't do any of those things. Can you tell me exactly what it can do that I can't do with those other devices?

 

[Below500k]

Hey TM,

Your tech is showing. Having expandable memory or storage, and periph. devices is not "doing" anything in of itself.

Maybe you did not get the point, or I was not clear enough. It does 80+% of what an AVERAGE CONSUMER wants and/or needs it to do.

Multitasking what? The average consumer would like to read e-mail or surf while listening to music. It does that (quite a bit more but it is irrelevant). It IS a closed multitasking system for reasons of battery life, a consumer conscious choice.

That will most likely change in the very near future in any case, as will making a call, as will taking pictures and videos. All of those are already in full development. As are cloud/portable versions of many popular more pro apps.

What can't you do with THOSE other devices? You've answered your own question. You currently cannot with ONE 1lb, 1" thick device with a reasonably sized screen, read your e-mail, read a book, watch a dvd, surf the web, listen to music for more than 4hrs. at a time. And be able to load it all up and be in sync with one click. It is not that they can do everything, it is that the 80% is far more convenient, far less to think about. That is the beauty of the platform and the real genius behind the iPhone, and now the pad.

It is clear that you are not the target market that this device is intended for. The pro version that will follow in a year or so may strike your fancy though.<grin>

 

[mass1965]

actually its more like 4 years since Apple converted to Intel chips, and with the changes in hardware 2 years is a long life cycle and 4 years is obsolete. So why is running on hardware 8 to 10 years a virtue if even reasonably possible.
Techman, Your bias is clearly showing again, better get some denials out again to try and change that

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

What can't you do with THOSE other devices? You've answered your own question. You currently cannot with ONE 1lb, 1" thick device with a reasonably sized screen, read your e-mail, read a book, watch a dvd, surf the web, listen to music for more than 4hrs. at a time. And be able to load it all up and be in sync with one click. It is not that they can do everything, it is that the 80% is far more convenient, far less to think about. That is the beauty of the platform and the real genius behind the iPhone, and now the pad

Actually, it's only 1/2 inch thick. But you've hit the nail right on the head. It's a point I've made before and clearly is one beyond Techman's understanding. It's not just WHAT the iPad does, it's HOW it does it. Can't wait. I just hope that they can deliver on all the orders by April 3.

 

[Techman]

You still haven't proved your 80% claim. You claim to know so much about a product that no one has yet to have their hands on. Amazing. And are you going to be using your iPad for more than 4 hours at a time? Not to mention that it's battery longevity is still yet to be proved, like anything else it can or cannot do. I can also slip a spare battery in my pocket for the netbook which I cannot do with an iPad as it is not user replaceable.

While the iPad may have a bigger screen, when it comes to displaying wide screen content, most netbooks will display a larger image due to their 16X9 aspect ratio while the iPad is only 4X3. Not that I would want to watch a movie on either of them, mind you. Anything smaller than a 24" computer display is pretty useless for movie watching for any length of time. Besides, do you intend on holding the thing in your hands for two hours to watch a film?

Your comment of sacrificing multitasking for battery life is straight out of Steve Jobs mouth at his press conference. Blind follower much?

Considering that both the iTouch and iPhone have built in cameras, I don't see what extra developement is needed for that feature to be added to the iPad. Your arguements hold as much water as all the pre-release 'specs' did. In other words, none at all.

I can see a lot of people buying this thing and playing with it for a month or so and then it will become another expensive dust collector or paper weight.

 

[Techman]

actually its more like 4 years since Apple converted to Intel chips, and with the changes in hardware 2 years is a long life cycle and 4 years is obsolete. So why is running on hardware 8 to 10 years a virtue if even reasonably possible.
Your biass is clearly showing again, better get some denials out again to try and change that

I can run Windows 7 very well on a 6 year old PC. Many business users are using printers and scanners, the two biggest problems when it comes to drivers, that are easily 6 to 8 years old. Maybe 4 years is obsolete in the Mac world but it isn't in the business PC world. And when it comes to custom programs, even 10 years means nothing if there is nothing to replace it or the cost to do so is prohibitive. So people stayed with XP or downgraded to avoid the cost of moving into the present. It had nothing to do with the quality of Vista.

By the way...the i7 has been on the market for over 2 years and is far from obsolete, and will still be far from obsolete in another 2 years. You would think that paying a premium price would be a bit of a hedge against obsolescence wouldn't you?

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

There you go playing with numbers again. You like playing with numbers, don't you? Apple's tech specifications say that the iPad has a 10 hour battery. Given the battery life in my iPhone, I have no reason to doubt. (By the way, the iPod Touch doesn't have a camera, but you never were much for facts, were you?)

And as for it become dust or a paperweight, the sad truth that there was an article published just yesterday on iPhone addiction. I can only imagine that iPad addiction will be equally bad.

As for his citing Jobs' reason for sacricing multi-tasking, how is that blind following? Not that I should question you on following blindly.

 

[Techman]

Sorry if I'm not 100% up to date on the iPod specs, I don't own one and have no interest in owning one. In fact, the only MP3 player I own is an old Sony 1 GB that a friend gave me that I use for playing music in the car. I've never understood the attraction for cutting myself off from my environment by plugging my ears and listening to music while walking around. Never owned a Walkman when I was a kid either.

I can understand iPhone addiction because it can be slipped into your pocket and used anywhere. I don't know anyone with pockets big enough to carry an iPad and can't imagine lugging the thing everywhere I go.

Have you ever seen me quote Bill Gates or any other person as to their reasons for not including something? I don't blindly follow anyone. I use Microsoft Windows because it does everything I need it to do and more and Window 7 is as advanced as any OS in existence. I support Windows because that is what the vast majority of businesses run today. When I started in computer support, I supported IBM systems and their software as well as many other platforms including early Apple computers. If something ever comes along to replace Windows as the OS of choice in businesses, I will probably move on to that also.

Expecting the average user to understand the IT industry is like a mechanic expecting the average driver to understand how car engines work in detail when most of them are barely able to turn the key, start the engine and drive in a straight line.

 

[Below500k]

Hey TM,

If I cannot "prove" what I'm saying, then you certainly cannot disprove it.

And again, you slipping things into your pocket is EXACTLY what I'm trying to logically, and politely to discuss.

The iPad is exactly for people who do NOT want to carry other things. I do not think that is a difficult concept. Do you not understand that the average person does not like wires? They do not want to look for 4 different chargers, batteries, discs, SD cards, load up maps, etc. etc. etc.

Have you never traveled with a woman and/or kid for more than 4 hrs? You should get out from under your peripherals a little more often and see how the rest of the world interacts with their devices.

And as for these... "Blind follower much?" "Arguments hold water as pre-release specs". "Paper weight"

Really now, that's what your going with? Who is blind again?

 

[mass1965]

Merlot, if you notice, I do my best to post links to information in my posts. I really have no brand loyalty as I have posted many times that people should buy the system that suits their needs and budget. Of course even by making that statement, I get attacked by posters like YVO and HFE who can't see any farther than the Apple logo on their system, claiming that I'm encouraging unsafe computing and should only refer users to the Mac platform which they claim, incorrectly as proven by statements of the majority of industry security specialists, is inherently safer than Windows. It would be nice to see a Mac user actually make a post about the great things in OS-X, and there are many, instead of doing nothing but attack Windows.

Other posters, like mass1965, know very little about computers or networks or operating systems and blindly follow what they read on their favourite manufacturer's web site.

I get pissed off when I see people post things that are totally incorrect and can't back themselves up with proof and even ignore what's posted on the pages they link to that doesn't suit their arguement.

I've been in the computer industry for 30 years and currently support dozens of companies and hundreds of users. I am in the middle of things day in and day out and I see what is happening in the real world of computing, not just what happens on my own personal systems. Considering the number of users and systems, I get about 1 call per month related to malware, and usually it's about a message from their AV program stating that a threat has been blocked.

Neither system is perfect. No system ever will be. Once again, pick the one that suits your needs and budget. Spend a bit of money and time to learn a bit about computers and how to protect yourself on-line. Chances are you'll be very happy with whatever you spend your money on.

Techman

Quote Originally Posted by Techman View Post
mass, there's a difference between UNIX based, and UNIX. I've never said that Mac OS isn't UNIX based, I've said that it isn't UNIX. But I'm sure that distinction is over your head.

As for considering the Apple website a reputable source of information, go right ahead and believe everything they write. That seems to be the limit of your computer knowledge, reading Apple's own publicity. I posted the link to Wikipedia because I thought it would be the easiest way for you to learn something, but it seems I was wrong. Unless it comes from Steve Jobs, you won't believe anything that anyone says.

I guess you're a perfect example of the average Apple customer and as I posted earlier, it's pointless trying to discuss anything or explain anything to you.




As for who knows what and who doesnt, point in case Techmans claim that OSX is not Unix
Just to set the correct record:

http://www.infoworld.com/t/platforms/leopard-gets-unix-03-certification-594

OS X's commercial credentials recently got a major boost from the Open Group. Thanks to the efforts of Apple's OS boss Kevin Van Vechten and his team, Leopard has cleared all of the hurdles required to attain UNIX 03 certification. That places Apple in elite company. Only Sun, IBM and HP are certified, so OS X turns the Big Three into the Big Four.

Did Open Source check with you before certifying OSX as a Unix implimentation? Oh I guess they are wrong as well
So what is all that about who understands computers and who doesnt. Techman you are just full of it. Realy makes you think about how useful or accrate anything you say is

 

[YouVantOption]

Techman you are just full of it. Realy makes you think about how useful or accrate anything you say is

Oh don't worry. He doesn't actually review escorts or anything like that. I have to wonder about the constitution of a guy who hangs around an escort review board limiting his posting to computers.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Sorry if I'm not 100% up to date on the iPod specs...

But why let a little thing like that stop you from making up numbers?

 

[Techman]

Have you never traveled with a woman and/or kid for more than 4 hrs? You should get out from under your peripherals a little more often and see how the rest of the world interacts with their devices.

Actually, I have. And considering the way kids treat their toys, I can't see anyone giving them an iPad to play with. Besides, you can buy a DVD player with two displays that fit on the back of the front seats in a car for much much less than an iPad and you'll get a better picture out of them.

 

[Below500k]

Nuff said.

Anyway, this comes full circle to the question of why it bothers you, which you claim it does not, which you have by your own words proven that it most certainly does to the point where you deviate from your obvious and helpful knowledge, to just pure nonsense.

It is very clear that you are in fact, what you claim to hate (a fanboy), but just the polar opposite, you are a hater. That is a standard phyc. condition.

It would be as rude if I (who am actually not a fanboy but am an admirer of the company) went into YOUR threads pointing out the deficiencies (and there are many) of your topic of MS IT whatevers.

So if I may be so bold, please be polite and start an official "I hate Apple fanboys" thread or something and stop trying to de-rail people's obvious excitement about a very cool and useful product with "facts" and information that have nothing to do with the products target market or expectation.

 

[Mod 11]

That's enough with the insults and pseudo psychological analysis. This thread won't result in anything good if it keeps going like this.

Last call guys: if I see more posts not related to the iPad specifications or to an actual iPad review, it will be deleted and the poster suspended. No exception.

I'm seriously thinking of banning any discussion about Microsoft or Apple since it always end the same way. Why not simply agree to disagree when it's visible there's no discussion possible anymore? When one member tries to step aside, there's immediately another one who start picking to make him jump back into the battle. No need to answer, see above.

 

[Below500k]

Good article released today, nice and balanced.

 

[metoo4]

Extremely well balanced, considering it starts with "The iPad changes everything"... (yes, I am sarcastic)

How can a product can be deemed to "changes everything" when nobody, including the writer of the article, had a chance to actually use one and only relies on specs provided by the company releasing this untested product in order to emit an opinion?

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

Extremely well balanced, considering it starts with "The iPad changes everything"... (yes, I am sarcastic)

How can a product can be deemed to "changes everything" when nobody, including the writer of the article, had a chance to actually use one and only relies on specs provided by the company releasing this untested product in order to emit an opinion?

Obviously, you haven't read the article, which, among other things, considers the possibility that the iPad will be a bust. Not only that, the article does not in any way praise the iPad to the heavens. What the article is about primarily is how other high tech companies are going to respond to the iPad. Try reading it before waxing sarcastic.