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Barack Obama: A Historic President

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daydreamer41

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Daydreamer:

You should do yourself a huge favor & stay out of this thread. You're not earning any points & many of your statements are absolutely ridiculous.

Hey Doc,

I think the same of your ridiculous statements, but I am not telling you to shut up. It always amazes me how people who call themselves socialists or have Left leanings are always the first to censor others with a different point of view. It happens everytime.

Daydreamer.
 
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daydreamer41

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/28/AR2010032802353.html

With health bill, Obama has sown the seeds of a budget crisis

By Robert J. Samuelson
Monday, March 29, 2010; A19



When historians recount the momentous events of recent weeks, they will note a curious coincidence. On March 15, Moody's Investors Service -- the bond rating agency -- published a paper warning that the exploding U.S. government debt could cause a downgrade of Treasury bonds. Just six days later, the House of Representatives passed President Obama's health-care legislation costing $900 billion or so over a decade and worsening an already-bleak budget outlook.

Should the United States someday suffer a budget crisis, it will be hard not to conclude that Obama and his allies sowed the seeds, because they ignored conspicuous warnings. A further irony will not escape historians. For two years, Obama and members of Congress have angrily blamed the shortsightedness and selfishness of bankers and rating agencies for causing the recent financial crisis. The president and his supporters, historians will note, were equally shortsighted and self-centered -- though their quest was for political glory, not financial gain.

Let's be clear. A "budget crisis" is not some minor accounting exercise. It's a wrenching political, social and economic upheaval. Large deficits and rising debt -- the accumulation of past deficits -- spook investors, leading to higher interest rates on government loans. The higher rates expand the budget deficit and further unnerve investors. To reverse this calamitous cycle, the government has to cut spending deeply or raise taxes sharply. Lower spending and higher taxes in turn depress the economy and lead to higher unemployment. Not pretty.

Greece is experiencing such a crisis. Until recently, conventional wisdom held that only developing countries -- managed ineptly -- were candidates for true budget crises. No more. Most wealthy societies with aging populations, including the United States, face big gaps between their spending promises and their tax bases. No one in Congress could be unaware of this.

Two weeks before the House vote, the Congressional Budget Office released its estimate of Obama's budget, including its health-care program. From 2011 to 2020, the cumulative deficit is almost $10 trillion. Adding 2009 and 2010, the total rises to $12.7 trillion. In 2020, the projected annual deficit is $1.25 trillion, equal to 5.6 percent of the economy (gross domestic product). That assumes economic recovery, with unemployment at 5 percent. Spending is almost 30 percent higher than taxes. Total debt held by the public rises from 40 percent of GDP in 2008 to 90 percent in 2020, close to its post-World War II peak.

To criticisms, Obama supporters make two arguments. First, the CBO says the plan reduces the deficit by $143 billion over a decade. Second, the legislation contains measures (an expert panel to curb Medicare spending, emphasis on "comparative effectiveness research") to control health spending. These rejoinders are self-serving and unconvincing.

Suppose the CBO estimate is correct. So? The $143 billion saving is about 1 percent of the projected $12.7 trillion deficit from 2009 to 2020. If the administration has $1 trillion or so of spending cuts and tax increases over a decade, all these monies should first cover existing deficits -- not finance new spending. Obama's behavior resembles a highly indebted family's taking an expensive round-the-world trip because it claims to have found ways to pay for it. It's self-indulgent and reckless.

But the CBO estimate is misleading, because it must embody the law's many unrealistic assumptions and gimmicks. Benefits are phased in "so that the first 10 years of [higher] revenue would be used to pay for only six years of spending" increases, a former CBO director, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, wrote in the New York Times on March 20. Holtz-Eakin also noted the $70 billion of premiums for a new program of long-term care that reduce present deficits but will be paid out in benefits later. Then there's the "doc fix" -- higher Medicare reimbursements under separate legislation that would cost about $200 billion over a decade.

Proposals to control health spending face restrictions that virtually ensure failure. Consider the "Independent Payment Advisory Board" aimed at Medicare. "The Board is prohibited from submitting proposals that would ration care, increase revenues or change benefits, eligibility or Medicare beneficiary cost sharing," says a summary by the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation. What's left? Similarly, findings from "comparative effectiveness research" -- intended to identify ineffective care -- "may not be construed as mandates, guidelines or recommendations for payment, coverage or treatment." What's the point then?

So Obama is flirting with a future budget crisis. Moody's emphasizes two warning signs: rising debt and loss of confidence that government will deal with it. Obama fulfills both. The parallels with the recent financial crisis are striking. Bankers and rating agencies engaged in wishful thinking to rationalize self-interest. Obama does the same. No one can tell when or whether a crisis will come. There is no magic tipping point. But Obama is raising the chances.
 

daydreamer41

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I'm talking about clinic type of stuff. Like, I cut my foot and need a stitch or two. Cuts, bruises, flu, cold, low level stuff. Low level preventive care seems easier in Canada also. Could be I have the wrong perspective.

We have Urgent Care facilities in my area in the US. If you have an accident, the Urgent Care facility is open from 9 am to 9 pm. No appointment is needed if you have an injury.

I also live near a University and there are several Hospitals near the University, but there is one clinic open for Low income people without insurance. Personally, there should be more of these facilities throughout lower income areas. It is a good training ground for young people who are in medical school and are Residents, or recently graduated and licensed doctors.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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"Are there any Tea party members that are black or latino? Or are they all caucasian?"
According to the demographics I've seen, they're all white, more female than male, they have a higher unemployment rate than the norm, and they're less educated than the norm. The ironic thing is that these are the people who will benefit most from the bill.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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We have Urgent Care facilities in my area in the US. If you have an accident, the Urgent Care facility is open from 9 am to 9 pm. No appointment is needed if you have an injury.
We have an Urgent Care facility here as well. If you have insurance or a credit card, they will take care of you. No insurance, no credit card, no care.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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daydreamer41

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http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1436

Only 13 percent of American voters say they are part of the Tea Party movement, a group that has more women than men; is mainly white and Republican and voted for John McCain, and strongly supports Sarah Palin, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today.


While voters say 44 - 39 percent that they will vote for a Republican over a Democratic candidate in this November's Congressional elections, if there is a Tea Party candidate on the ballot, the Democrat would get 36 percent to the Republican's 25 percent, with 15 percent for the Tea Party candidate, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University poll finds.


By a 28 - 23 percent margin, American voters have a favorable opinion of the Tea Party, with 49 percent who say they don't know enough about the group to form an opinion.


American voter opinion of the Democratic Party is 48 - 33 unfavorable, with opinion of the Republican Party 42 - 33 percent unfavorable.


While 70 percent of all voters are "somewhat dissatisfied" or "very dissatisfied" with the way things are going in America today, 92 percent of Tea Party members are dissatisfied.


Government does too many things better left to businesses and individuals, 54 percent of all voters say, while 42 percent say government is not doing enough. Tea Party members say 83 - 15 percent that government is doing too much.


"The Tea Party movement is mostly made up of people who consider themselves Republicans," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute. "They are less educated but more interested in politics than the average Joe and Jane Six-Pack and are not in a traditional sense swing voters."


"The Tea Party could be a Republican dream - or a GOP nightmare. Members could be a boon to the GOP if they are energized to support Republican candidates. But if the Tea Party were to run its own candidates for office, any votes its candidate received would to a very great extent be coming from the GOP column," Brown added.


Looking at voters who consider themselves part of the Tea Party movement:
•74 percent are Republicans or independent voters leaning Republican;
•16 percent are Democrats or independent voters leaning Democratic;
•5 percent are solidly independent;
•45 percent are men;
•55 percent are women;
•88 percent are white;
•77 percent voted for Sen. John McCain in 2008;
•15 percent voted for President Barack Obama.
 
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daydreamer41

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Not to be confused with the Nobel Laureate in Economics, Paul Samuelson, this Samuelson is not an economist.

Robert J. Samuelson has been a Washington Post and Newsweek Columnist for more than 2 decades. He graduated from Harvard with a degree in Government and his focus has been business and government. He has written 3 books on the subject and his main focus has been Social Security, entitlements, and government spending. You cannot discount his research. And the fact that Moody's is warning the U.S. that the US may lose its AAA credit rating is rather serious.
 
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Jman47

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Got my popcorn ready, these political discussions never end well. Looking forward to it!

SK,
I'm running outa popcorn...how about you?

What's the over/under on a shutdown time and date.
We gotta be getting close.

Have fun,
Jman
 

Below500k

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DD, you like Samuelson make incredible leaps of tainted logic.

One certainly can discount his research, just as one could discount any author, documents or statements (like for instance the way you discount BO's citizenship, or claim that Palin has an IQ over 85).

The article, with the cute zinger title, is filled with very far-reaching threads to try and tie it together. It spends more time not talking about costs, rather more of his distaste of BO's delivery. Much like most of the media which seems to have more of a fascination about the process rather than the substance, and/or meaning of the platform of health reform.

And that is the problem with the majority of op-eds like this -- the presumption of knowledge and/or predictions are based upon a frozen-in-time premise, when in fact we know that is both highly unlikely and totally unrealistic. That past study is a microcosm of the nations health care, during a narrow time period, and on a very un-nation like population. Furthermore, the study, (Megan McArdle) does not only not support his statement (read he cherry picked), but acknowledges the primary problem that I'm pointing out in his "research" - that there are too many other factors involved to make any real predictions, neither one way (for) or the other (against) on health reform.

And now to show the point of his piece he brings this...

"By the government's latest forecast, health spending goes from 17 percent of the economy in 2009 to 19 percent in 2019. Health "reform" would probably increase that. "

Not only do the quotes reflect his slant, but his money-walks, I'll lay my cred. in-writing on...

"probably".

Bullshit opinion piece, not because it is him, not because it is in the WaPo, just because it is.

Just so you don't get all "righty-lefty" on me I'd be happy to critique a left slanted piece, just post a link!
 
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daydreamer41

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This is quite similar to the problem in the US. What makes the problem in the US worse, however, is that there are 42 million people who have neither insurance nor family doctors. These people create a tremendous burden on the healthcare system as ER care is much more expensive and the taxpayers wind up footing the bill. The bill just past will ease this problem significantly.

Even Barack Obama, your idol, says the number of uninsured is 30 million. So does Pelosi, and that genius (wake me up) Harry Reid. And you are adding 12 million or are you mistaken or you just like to embellish the already inflated figures given by your leaders?

The truth is the number of people who actually are uninsured because they cannot afford insurance and are not eligible for Medicaid is 8 to 12 million, not 30 million. About 1/3 of the 30 million are young people who choose between better clothes and cars and Health Insurance. And the other 1/3 are Illegal immigrants. Young people notoriously go without insurance because they feel that they can. I did for a good part of my 20s. It was haphazard. Insurance is much cheaper for younger folks.

Yes, there should be some type of program for the uninsured who absolutely cannot afford to purchase. The most vulnerable group are people in their late 40 to 65 before Medicaid kicks in.
 

daydreamer41

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I'm throwing this question to anyone in-the-know & it's for my own personal curiosity:

"Are there any Tea party members that are black or latino? Or are they all caucasian?"

p.s. I just saw a tv report on them & they seem so terribly misinformed.

What a coincidence, Doc. I just saw Democratic Chuck Schumer, Dem. Representative Anthony Weiner, Nancy Pelosi, and they seemed terribly misinformed - probably moreso than the tea party people you saw on television.
 

Below500k

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What a coincidence, Doc. I just saw Democratic Chuck Schumer, Dem. Representative Anthony Weiner, Nancy Pelosi, and they seemed terribly misinformed - probably moreso than the tea party people you saw on television.

Oh, I doubt that. Tell us DD, you seem to have an affection for the trailor, er traitor, er tea party'ers... are you holding out on us, are you a member?
 

CS Martin

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SK,
I'm running outa popcorn...how about you?

What's the over/under on a shutdown time and date.
We gotta be getting close.

Have fun,
Jman

Amen. I have an idea let's go visit an escort review board!!! I hear they used to have them in Montreal....
 

daydreamer41

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First, Merlot is not from Canada. And what gives you the impression that Canada has a shortage? I spend a lot of time in Canada, know quite a few Canadians and none that I know is unhappy with the system.

So you think they prefer insurance company bureaucrats telling them what to do and who they can treat and who not to treat because they have a pre-existing condition or they've used up their limits?

Where do I get the impression that there are a shortage of doctors in Canada? From the Canadian friends and co-workers I know. They all say that there are a shortage of doctors in Canada. They have to wait a long time to get a needed procedure done. If they have an emergency, there is no worry though. They have known a friend or a family member that have come here to get diagnosed and treated in Canada when the condition was serious, like Cancer.
 

daydreamer41

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Really, Below500K, did you see Face the Nation. Schumer was an air head and is always an air head. Lindsey Graham wiped his ass. Watch it.

As for the tea party, I may be interested. It is a good cause. Get rid of idiots in our government.
 

daydreamer41

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DD, you like Samuelson make incredible leaps of tainted logic.

One certainly can discount his research, just as one could discount any author, documents or statements (like for instance the way you discount BO's citizenship, or claim that Palin has an IQ over 85).

The article, with the cute zinger title, is filled with very far-reaching threads to try and tie it together. It spends more time not talking about costs, rather more of his distaste of BO's delivery. Much like most of the media which seems to have more of a fascination about the process rather than the substance, and/or meaning of the platform of health reform.

And that is the problem with the majority of op-eds like this -- the presumption of knowledge and/or predictions are based upon a frozen-in-time premise, when in fact we know that is both highly unlikely and totally unrealistic. That past study is a microcosm of the nations health care, during a narrow time period, and on a very un-nation like population. Furthermore, the study, (Megan McArdle) does not only not support his statement (read he cherry picked), but acknowledges the primary problem that I'm pointing out in his "research" - that there are too many other factors involved to make any real predictions, neither one way (for) or the other (against) on health reform.

And now to show the point of his piece he brings this...

"By the government's latest forecast, health spending goes from 17 percent of the economy in 2009 to 19 percent in 2019. Health "reform" would probably increase that. "

Not only do the quotes reflect his slant, but his money-walks, I'll lay my cred. in-writing on...

"probably".

Bullshit opinion piece, not because it is him, not because it is in the WaPo, just because it is.

Just so you don't get all "righty-lefty" on me I'd be happy to critique a left slanted piece, just post a link!

Because you disagree with Samuelson? Why because he does not meet your views?

You can't throw aside Moody's ratings warnings. When the US loses its ratings, our economy will be in trouble. Maybe it will be better. No one will lend the US a dime. Ben will be forced to print, which he said he will not.

Go ahead, believe all is okay and when the dollar collapse, you will be as rich or poor as everyone else - you will have nothing.
 

Below500k

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Dude, I'll answer both in one...

1) Instead of having tea, you should campaign for your choice - it is more effective of a method of removing idiots.

2) I said nothing of Moody. Nor was that part of Samuelson's article. Stop leaping like a 7 yr old A.D.D hypoglycemic on Snickers. Stick on topic. Re-read what I wrote and please present a counter argument, I'd be glad to explain it to you.
 
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