I never said that I believed or did not believe anything ARod has or will say, and in fact I don't know what he will say since the interview is to be televised tonight and CBS did not send me an advance copy.
Baseball Bombshell: The Mitchell Report
- Thread starter korbel
- Start date
btyger said:
So does the NBA & MLB. Steroids aren't a problem anymore, it's the HGH since testing for it is nearly non-existent. You can only test it using a blood sample & it has to be done within a few hours of the HGH injection. Only a complete idiot would ever get caught. As for the NHL, i fully believe that many players not only use HGH, but also steroids. The league has to take it's head out of the sand & realize that if they don't smarten up & improve their drug testing program & policy, they'll one day wind up in the same jackpot as MLB has.
EagerBeaver said:
I totally agree with this statement. If players didn't feel shielded by their union as much as they have over the past 15 years, they wouldn't be where they are today & having to face accusations about past steroids & HGH use.
And why not? Wasn't your connection who gave you advance notice of the 2006 trade of Dontrelle Willis to the Yankees able to get you an advance copy of this interview?EagerBeaver said:
A-Rod on 60 Minutes
Here's what will be shown tonight:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml
Here's what will be shown tonight:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/60minutes/main3415.shtml
The Public Too.
Hello all,
What is most disturbing is the dismissive way some of the public feel about it. Oh, he shouldn't have ratted. Oh, he is trying to cover his own guilty butt. Oh, there wouldn't be as many home runs. Oh, baseball wouldn't be nearly as exciting. Oh, just allow it then it will only be a matter of choice. Well, so why stop there. How about if we cork all the bats, allow every pitcher to use spitters, every runner can raise his spikes high, every baseman can slap, punch, or kick runners, and let's turn on a camera focused directly on the catchers signals with a monitor in the opposing coaches dugout and tied in to a receiver the batter can wear on his ear. Or better yet, why not just act the whole thing out from a script like in...snicker...chordle...chuckle..."Professional Wrestling".
Sports are supposed to be about human skill at it's best not through freakish distortion of the human body. If you want to go that far just to see a ball hit further then why not build robots that can do much better than us anyway. Why don't we just all watch baseballs being shot out of better and better cannons. Because we want to revel in the best of human skill and the glory of athletic achievement. What is there to admire about the glory of human achievement if we have to become freaks to out do one another.
Now for those of you who said Brain McNamee was a rat, a liar, a slanderer, we now have an admission by Andy Pettitte who says he did exactly what McNamee says he did. Ooops...suddenly you have to deal with the reality of McNamee's VERIFIED credibility. Does that mean he is right about any of the others. Maybe not. But now you have to deal with the fact that he has been proven truthful in one case...AND...the likelihood he could be truthful about others. But many will still chose to blame him for the fall of their heros nistead of the owners, the MLBPA, and themselves for being so dismissive about what we all knew was happening. When McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds were smashing homerun records as easily as having another beer six times between 1998 and 2001, after only Ruth and Maris had reached 60 in the past 97 years, we were wild with worship while we knew exactly what was going on. The "owners"...the "MLBPA"...well...don't forget the person in the mirror too.
See A-Rod on 60 minutes tonight for more...FUN!
Korbel
Doc Holliday said:
Hello all,
What is most disturbing is the dismissive way some of the public feel about it. Oh, he shouldn't have ratted. Oh, he is trying to cover his own guilty butt. Oh, there wouldn't be as many home runs. Oh, baseball wouldn't be nearly as exciting. Oh, just allow it then it will only be a matter of choice. Well, so why stop there. How about if we cork all the bats, allow every pitcher to use spitters, every runner can raise his spikes high, every baseman can slap, punch, or kick runners, and let's turn on a camera focused directly on the catchers signals with a monitor in the opposing coaches dugout and tied in to a receiver the batter can wear on his ear. Or better yet, why not just act the whole thing out from a script like in...snicker...chordle...chuckle..."Professional Wrestling".
Sports are supposed to be about human skill at it's best not through freakish distortion of the human body. If you want to go that far just to see a ball hit further then why not build robots that can do much better than us anyway. Why don't we just all watch baseballs being shot out of better and better cannons. Because we want to revel in the best of human skill and the glory of athletic achievement. What is there to admire about the glory of human achievement if we have to become freaks to out do one another.
Now for those of you who said Brain McNamee was a rat, a liar, a slanderer, we now have an admission by Andy Pettitte who says he did exactly what McNamee says he did. Ooops...suddenly you have to deal with the reality of McNamee's VERIFIED credibility. Does that mean he is right about any of the others. Maybe not. But now you have to deal with the fact that he has been proven truthful in one case...AND...the likelihood he could be truthful about others. But many will still chose to blame him for the fall of their heros nistead of the owners, the MLBPA, and themselves for being so dismissive about what we all knew was happening. When McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds were smashing homerun records as easily as having another beer six times between 1998 and 2001, after only Ruth and Maris had reached 60 in the past 97 years, we were wild with worship while we knew exactly what was going on. The "owners"...the "MLBPA"...well...don't forget the person in the mirror too.
See A-Rod on 60 minutes tonight for more...FUN!
Korbel
A-Rod on 60 Minutes
Hello all,
So what's the big deal about A-Rod anyway. According to him he has never seen or heard anything about steroids, he has never used steroids or human growth hormones, and all that outrageous stuff like the time they announced he was opting out of his contract with the Yankees during the 4th game of the World Series this year was his lawyers doing and a great shock and embarrassment to him. In other words: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. All he would admit to was the self-evident part where his hitting has stunk in post season play. I am not accusing him of anything, but he sure likes to play the proverbial "innocent babe in the woods". It all might be taken on faith if you give him an open mind, but the idea that he has never seen or heard anything going on with steriods around him brings to mind how often people like to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.
Going at $300,000,000.
Korbel
Hello all,
So what's the big deal about A-Rod anyway. According to him he has never seen or heard anything about steroids, he has never used steroids or human growth hormones, and all that outrageous stuff like the time they announced he was opting out of his contract with the Yankees during the 4th game of the World Series this year was his lawyers doing and a great shock and embarrassment to him. In other words: see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. All he would admit to was the self-evident part where his hitting has stunk in post season play. I am not accusing him of anything, but he sure likes to play the proverbial "innocent babe in the woods". It all might be taken on faith if you give him an open mind, but the idea that he has never seen or heard anything going on with steriods around him brings to mind how often people like to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge.
Going at $300,000,000.
Korbel
Maybe McNamee didn't want to do like Bonds' trainer did....stay quiet & not spill the beans that his friend/client is a steroid/HGH freak....and then spend months/years in jail for contempt. Bonds doesn't seem to get it....that the whole world is on to him & knows he's been mutiliating his body with illegal substances for years.....this idiot's cluelesness has caused his friend & trainer to practically rot in jail all this time. Some friend!
Clemens should simply do what Pettite & others did & admit what we all know: that he willingly used HGH during his time in Toronto & later in NYC & i'll bet you more than anything that his fans & baseball in general will forgive him since he came clean & also for the fact HGH wasn't a banned substance at the time he was using it. Stop the charade, you fat redneck!
As for Pay-Rod, what we saw tonight on 60 Minutes was funny. If i'm to believe what this phony is claiming...then i'm a virgin. Yeah right! He even had his wife on the show....oh yeah, right.....the wife is on the show & claims she believes him....so we're supposed to act stupid & like a bunch of idiots & believe everything this phony hypocrite told Katie Couric. Come on, phony!! You can do better than that!!! What's next....Larry King? Matt Lauer's Today Show? I dare you to go on Chris Mathews' show, you phony!
Clemens should simply do what Pettite & others did & admit what we all know: that he willingly used HGH during his time in Toronto & later in NYC & i'll bet you more than anything that his fans & baseball in general will forgive him since he came clean & also for the fact HGH wasn't a banned substance at the time he was using it. Stop the charade, you fat redneck!
As for Pay-Rod, what we saw tonight on 60 Minutes was funny. If i'm to believe what this phony is claiming...then i'm a virgin. Yeah right! He even had his wife on the show....oh yeah, right.....the wife is on the show & claims she believes him....so we're supposed to act stupid & like a bunch of idiots & believe everything this phony hypocrite told Katie Couric. Come on, phony!! You can do better than that!!! What's next....Larry King? Matt Lauer's Today Show? I dare you to go on Chris Mathews' show, you phony!
Was Clemens accused of HGH, or steroids? I'd suspect the latter.Doc Holliday said:
LOL. I'd like to see him on with Keith Olbermann.Doc Holliday said:I dare you to go on Chris Mathews' show, you phony!
Hello Doc,Doc Holliday said:He even had his wife on the show....oh yeah, right.....the wife is on the show & claims she believes him....so we're supposed to act stupid & like a bunch of idiots & believe everything this phony hypocrite told Katie Couric. Come on, phony!! You can do better than that!!! What's next....Larry King? Matt Lauer's Today Show? I dare you to go on Chris Mathews' show, you phony!
This reminds me of the Amy Fisher episode where the wife of Joey Buttafuoco was shot in the face and still said her husband had done nothing wrong. At least Mrs A-Rod has many millions of reasons to stay loyal. Oh, I am just pointing out that the money is there. Of course Mrs. A-Rod would never think in such terms. What is the name of that old bridge again???
Pre-nup...no...I only love YOU my honey...smooches,
Korbel
Last edited:
Korbel said:
Mrs Clemens?? I was referring to A-Rod's wife, who appeared with him on 60 Minutes last night.
Hello Doc,Doc Holliday said:
Oops...edited. Actually, it probably fits both.
Two of a kind?
Korbel
Clemens the best "FRAUD" ever???
Hello all,
Just a viewpoint I read in the Boston Herald this morning.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/other_mlb/view.bg?articleid=1051428#articleFull
A true fraud? Roger that
Clemens cheats self out of Hall of Fame
http://cache.heraldinteractive.com/images/siteImages/reporters/gerry_callahan.gif By Gerry Callahan
Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - Updated 12h ago
+ Recent Articles Boston Herald General Sports Columnist
One of the ESPN guys calls trainer-turned-informant Brian McNamee “a sewer rat,” which is ironic because Roger Clemens is the one who is cornered. Clemens is the one who today is trapped like a rat.
Clemens has made more than $ 160 million (plus endorsements) during his major league career, but he cannot buy his way out of this mess. He has many friends in the media, but they can only do so much. They can point to McNamee’s questionable character and call the former New York City police officer a rat, but then they run into a small problem, which is actually a big problem for Roger.
Are we supposed to believe McNamee is lying about Clemens but not about Andy Pettitte?
Clemens probably thought Thursday was the worst day of his professional life. George Mitchell released his devastating report, and Clemens was the leading man. We learned that he started taking steroids in 1998 while in Toronto, according to McNamee, and continued into his time with the New York Yankees.
In that ’98 season with the Blue Jays, Clemens won the Cy Young and earned the pitching equivalent of the Triple Crown (first in wins, ERA and strikeouts).
According to McNamee, Roger said the steroids “had a pretty good effect” on him.
He was traded to New York before the ’99 season and soon persuaded the Yankees to bring McNamee along. In 2001, Clemens went 20-3 and won his sixth Cy Young Award. McNamee told Mitchell that he continued to inject Clemens with various steroids while they were together in New York.
Clemens’ lawyer released a statement last week denying the allegations and painting McNamee as a liar. Clemens’ supporters in the press jumped to his defense, and his strategy seemed to be coming together. It was simple: Who you gonna believe, the greatest pitcher ever or this steroid-dealing sewer rat?
Then Clemens got cut off at the knees by his best buddy Pettitte, who released a statement Saturday confirming McNamee’s version of the events. Suddenly, it became a lot easier to believe McNamee, who is facing federal prison time if he ever is caught lying to Mitchell.
Pettitte said he injected human growth hormone for two days while under McNamee’s care, claiming he just wanted a speedier recovery from an elbow injury so he could rejoin his teammates. It was a sorry excuse from another guy who had nowhere else to turn, but it was also full of irony: Here was Pettitte, a guy who always looked up to his idol Clemens. Now the tables had turned, and Clemens could only dream of being in Pettitte’s position.
McNamee said Clemens tried HGH but didn’t like it. He had a problem with the “belly shot,” according to the trainer. So it was nothing but the hard stuff for Roger: Deca-Durabolin and Winstrol. He was not trying to come back from an injury or salvage a borderline career.
George Mitchell relays the stories of many of baseball’s steroid cheats, and Clemens is not only the biggest star in the report. He’s also the least sympathetic character in the whole ugly story.
Here was a guy in 1998 who had four Cy Youngs, who had six All-Star Game appearances, who was in the second year of a $25 million contract. He had it all but wanted more. He was every bit as greedy as Barry Bonds, maybe more so.
McNamee said he first started injecting Clemens during the 1998 season, which means he started cheating before Bonds did. According to “Game of Shadows,” Bonds resorted to performance-enhancing drugs after the dramatic McGwire-Sosa home run chase at the end of the 1998 season.
Clemens is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But this isn’t a court of law. This is the perception of millions of baseball fans who see him now as the pitching equivalent of Bonds, the bookend bums of baseball. Clemens did not lie under oath, so he is not facing perjury charges. He’s not going to jail. He is in no danger of losing anything tangible. He gets to keep the houses and cars and Cy Youngs and $ 160 million.
Yet he does not get to keep his good reputation. That goes in the trash with all his dirty needles.
The real Roger Clemens fans -- the ones who cheered the loudest, who wrote the glowing tributes, who raved about his work ethic and who thought all along that he was on the level -- are the ones who should feel burned today. The truth is, Clemens is no better than Bonds, no better than McGwire.
Those guys can’t show their faces in public. They can’t do cute little cell phone commercials. Well, then, he can’t, either. That is the small price he must pay for years of cheating the game of baseball.
Mark McGwire hit 583 homers and has certain Hall of Fame credentials. Yet he got just 23.5 percent of the vote last year, nowhere near the 75 percent needed for induction. So how can a voter deny McGwire and turn around and vote for Clemens or Bonds? The evidence against Bonds and Clemens is stronger than that against McGwire. They don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt from anyone. They’re the rats.
They’re the frauds. They knew what they were doing was wrong and did it anyway.
We cannot erase the names Bonds and Clemens from the record books or take back all the trophies, but we can change their place in history. They deserve the same fate as McGwire: Out of sight, out of mind, out of the Hall of Fame.
Are they still the best ever?
No doubt about it. When it comes to cheating, no one else is even close.
The price of cheating?
Korbel
Hello all,
Just a viewpoint I read in the Boston Herald this morning.
http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/other_mlb/view.bg?articleid=1051428#articleFull
A true fraud? Roger that
Clemens cheats self out of Hall of Fame
http://cache.heraldinteractive.com/images/siteImages/reporters/gerry_callahan.gif By Gerry Callahan
Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - Updated 12h ago
+ Recent Articles Boston Herald General Sports Columnist
One of the ESPN guys calls trainer-turned-informant Brian McNamee “a sewer rat,” which is ironic because Roger Clemens is the one who is cornered. Clemens is the one who today is trapped like a rat.
Clemens has made more than $ 160 million (plus endorsements) during his major league career, but he cannot buy his way out of this mess. He has many friends in the media, but they can only do so much. They can point to McNamee’s questionable character and call the former New York City police officer a rat, but then they run into a small problem, which is actually a big problem for Roger.
Are we supposed to believe McNamee is lying about Clemens but not about Andy Pettitte?
Clemens probably thought Thursday was the worst day of his professional life. George Mitchell released his devastating report, and Clemens was the leading man. We learned that he started taking steroids in 1998 while in Toronto, according to McNamee, and continued into his time with the New York Yankees.
In that ’98 season with the Blue Jays, Clemens won the Cy Young and earned the pitching equivalent of the Triple Crown (first in wins, ERA and strikeouts).
According to McNamee, Roger said the steroids “had a pretty good effect” on him.
He was traded to New York before the ’99 season and soon persuaded the Yankees to bring McNamee along. In 2001, Clemens went 20-3 and won his sixth Cy Young Award. McNamee told Mitchell that he continued to inject Clemens with various steroids while they were together in New York.
Clemens’ lawyer released a statement last week denying the allegations and painting McNamee as a liar. Clemens’ supporters in the press jumped to his defense, and his strategy seemed to be coming together. It was simple: Who you gonna believe, the greatest pitcher ever or this steroid-dealing sewer rat?
Then Clemens got cut off at the knees by his best buddy Pettitte, who released a statement Saturday confirming McNamee’s version of the events. Suddenly, it became a lot easier to believe McNamee, who is facing federal prison time if he ever is caught lying to Mitchell.
Pettitte said he injected human growth hormone for two days while under McNamee’s care, claiming he just wanted a speedier recovery from an elbow injury so he could rejoin his teammates. It was a sorry excuse from another guy who had nowhere else to turn, but it was also full of irony: Here was Pettitte, a guy who always looked up to his idol Clemens. Now the tables had turned, and Clemens could only dream of being in Pettitte’s position.
McNamee said Clemens tried HGH but didn’t like it. He had a problem with the “belly shot,” according to the trainer. So it was nothing but the hard stuff for Roger: Deca-Durabolin and Winstrol. He was not trying to come back from an injury or salvage a borderline career.
George Mitchell relays the stories of many of baseball’s steroid cheats, and Clemens is not only the biggest star in the report. He’s also the least sympathetic character in the whole ugly story.
Here was a guy in 1998 who had four Cy Youngs, who had six All-Star Game appearances, who was in the second year of a $25 million contract. He had it all but wanted more. He was every bit as greedy as Barry Bonds, maybe more so.
McNamee said he first started injecting Clemens during the 1998 season, which means he started cheating before Bonds did. According to “Game of Shadows,” Bonds resorted to performance-enhancing drugs after the dramatic McGwire-Sosa home run chase at the end of the 1998 season.
Clemens is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. But this isn’t a court of law. This is the perception of millions of baseball fans who see him now as the pitching equivalent of Bonds, the bookend bums of baseball. Clemens did not lie under oath, so he is not facing perjury charges. He’s not going to jail. He is in no danger of losing anything tangible. He gets to keep the houses and cars and Cy Youngs and $ 160 million.
Yet he does not get to keep his good reputation. That goes in the trash with all his dirty needles.
The real Roger Clemens fans -- the ones who cheered the loudest, who wrote the glowing tributes, who raved about his work ethic and who thought all along that he was on the level -- are the ones who should feel burned today. The truth is, Clemens is no better than Bonds, no better than McGwire.
Those guys can’t show their faces in public. They can’t do cute little cell phone commercials. Well, then, he can’t, either. That is the small price he must pay for years of cheating the game of baseball.
Mark McGwire hit 583 homers and has certain Hall of Fame credentials. Yet he got just 23.5 percent of the vote last year, nowhere near the 75 percent needed for induction. So how can a voter deny McGwire and turn around and vote for Clemens or Bonds? The evidence against Bonds and Clemens is stronger than that against McGwire. They don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt from anyone. They’re the rats.
They’re the frauds. They knew what they were doing was wrong and did it anyway.
We cannot erase the names Bonds and Clemens from the record books or take back all the trophies, but we can change their place in history. They deserve the same fate as McGwire: Out of sight, out of mind, out of the Hall of Fame.
Are they still the best ever?
No doubt about it. When it comes to cheating, no one else is even close.
The price of cheating?
Korbel
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