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Best Bond?

TheJames101

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AAAAAAAAND reason #2 to say goodbye

https://nypost.com/2019/07/14/lashana-lynch-cast-as-007-in-new-james-bond-movie-report/

I know you're thinking, who? She was Captain Marvel's pilot partner. #woke


I've seen a fair amount of blowback to this online, and it's simply baffling. It must be the result of a lack of comprehension. 007 is a job title. James Bond happens to have that job title when he's on active service. In this film he's retired. Thus someone else has been given the 007 title. Why is this difficult to understand, problematic, or a big deal?
 

Meta not Meta

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PS You can catch sight of her here, with drink in hand, when she bumps into Bond in the Jamaican nightclub, from about 40 seconds in:

https://youtu.be/NQkO0Shirl8

PPS And if it's not overdoing it, hopefully she'll be gay, too - just to drive everyone really mad!

BTW, and please forgive me my nerdom, but there have been female 00s glimpsed earlier in the series, so it's not like this is completely new ground. And in one of Fleming's best novels, You Only Live Twice, Bond lost his 007 designation and was given 7777 instead!
 

TheJames101

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BTW, and please forgive me my nerdom, but there have been female 00s glimpsed earlier in the series, so it's not like this is completely new ground. And in one of Fleming's best novels, You Only Live Twice, Bond lost his 007 designation and was given 7777 instead!


Quite right - which just goes to debunk the whole thing with people yelling about "but it's tradition that Bond is 007!" "You can't mess with it" and best of all... "Ian Fleming would be rolling in his grave!" lol.
 

TheJames101

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What is seems to be is that whoever tries to produce the next Bond is trying to out woke the competition and using the names of established franchises to do so. Hollywood has gone full libtard apeshit mindfucked.

https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/bond-25-007-adjusting-metoo-world/


To an extent Bond has to change with the times, at least slightly. You can't have a hero wandering around pushing women off with a slap on the butt saying "man talk". Not anymore. Take no notice of the "femaile 007" stuff. That's just hysterics.
 

Meta not Meta

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No, you’re being completey hysterical.

It's just a plot device.

My guess is that Lashana Lynch won’t even be in the film for more than five or ten minutes. She may not even be up to the job and that’s why Bond has to come out of retirement.

Bond as a character in the films really hasn’t changed all that much in the almost sixty years he’s been around. And there’s no reason to think he will change radically in Bond 25 or later films.

Phoebe Waller Bridge, one of the writers of B25 even commented on this, saying:

““There’s been a lot of talk about whether or not [the Bond franchise] is relevant now because of who he is and the way he treats women,” she said. “I think that’s bollocks. I think he’s absolutely relevant now. It has just got to grow. It has just got to evolve, and the important thing is that the film treats the women properly. He doesn’t have to. He needs to be true to this character.”

For me, Bond remains - at core - a cool, stylish loner & womanizer; tough, ruthless, gentlemanly [for the most part], reliable, resourceful, skilled at violence and getting himself out of a jam, often through improvisational thought. Even that he drinks too much.

Mostly what has changed is the world around him, and the films have usually tried to reflect this.

You can call it a “feminist agenda,” but inarguably the public place of women in the world is very different from what it was in 1962 and the films have attempted to reflect this from at least as early as the 70s, when we had the first of the near-equal “Bond girls” with Major Anya Amasova, in the TSWLM, and Dr. Holly Goodhead [despite the name, lol] in Moonraker.

By 1995, when Barbara Broccoli [a woman!] began to exert her influence over the franchise, the character of M, Bond’s boss, became herself a woman, who famously charged Bond with being a “misogynist dinosaur.” That was 25 years ago! And I’d say the Judi Dench character was one of the best things to happen to the series in all that time, bringing a new, very-contemporary level of tension to her relationship with Bond.

Another change that has worked for the benefit of the series is that, more recently, other secondary characters, Felix Leiter and Moneypenny, have been played by black actors, in my opinion, both much superior in their talent to the white actors who had previously played those roles.

B25 is almost certainly Craig’s last film before the franchise returns with a new actor as Bond. You can be reasonably certain of two things: that the new actor will be male, and that if he does not begin the film as “007” he will almost certainly end it having again that designation.
 

TheJames101

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Let's start with To an extent Bond has to change with the times, at least slightly. You can't have a hero wandering around pushing women off with a slap on the butt saying "man talk". Not anymore. That was done ONCE is the 60's. So that argument is completely irrelevant as that change has been made. If memory serves me correctly, that scene has never happened again.

Take no notice of the "femaile 007" stuff. That's just hysterics. It's not hysterics when taking legendary characters that have been established and have a fan following and changing them to fit a feminist agenda. Compare that to like Metallica. they released 5 amazing albums, cult following, fans buying albums and sold out shows and then changed their style with their Load album and have lost fans. Asking fans today who is Metallica, they will refer to those albums more than anything they have release since then.

I have not watched Scrubs, but I know the quote. I am however... very very well versed in the Bond universe.

You say that the Goldfinger moment hasn't happened again. Of course not literally - but there are plenty moments that are similar - take Bond's reaction to finding out that rocket scientist Dr. Goodhead is a woman in Moonraker. While Bond's attitude may still be similar, the way they show it on screen would not be.

As far as hysterics - again, I really must emphasize... they aren't changing Bond to fit a feminist agenda. This is a plot point. Bond retired. Someone else got the 007 tag. That happens to be a black woman. There have been female 00's in the past movies. It's not that big a deal.
 

Sky_rocket

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> Best Bond?

Sean Connery. However, I'd say Pierce Brosnan had the best bond look - Aristocratic Norman Angalis look. Ironic that he happens to be an Irishman.
 

Meta not Meta

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"Growing Up a Bond Girl"

I love this short video, from a self-described lesbian feminist, who presents the extremely positive conception of the "Bond Girl" as the cinematic "archetype of an independent and exciting woman."

https://vimeo.com/52424644

Yes, the sexual politics of Bond films are a lot more complicated in interesting ways than they are normally given credit for.
 

Meta not Meta

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> Best Bond?

Sean Connery. However, I'd say Pierce Brosnan had the best bond look - Aristocratic Norman Angalis look. Ironic that he happens to be an Irishman.

Yes, maybe so, but I thought Brosnan was a little too young & handsome early on. He looks a little more rugged as the films progress. And still looks great today!

Not just ironic that Brosnan is Irish; but Bond himself-as written by Fleming-is very much NOT the quintessential Englishman, but of a rather unique Scots-Swiss background.
 

charmer_

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> Best Bond?

Sean Connery. However, I'd say Pierce Brosnan had the best bond look - Aristocratic Norman Angalis look. Ironic that he happens to be an Irishman.

Nope....Sean Connery had the best Bond look (was quite in shape back in the day). Best actor as Bond, and had that toned physique that suited the role.

I liked Pierce Brosnan, but damn....they gave him some shitty scripts/movies to work on. Connery was the best, Moore was great for the type of Bond movies he did (ie. goofy/corny).

Then there's everyone in between (ie. nothing spectacular)....until Craig came along, and brought the quality back to Bond. Craig's easily 2nd to Connery, imho.
 

Bbw hunter

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To an extent Bond has to change with the times, at least slightly. You can't have a hero wandering around pushing women off with a slap on the butt saying "man talk". Not anymore. Take no notice of the "femaile 007" stuff. That's just hysterics.

Hey Savoy that scene you are referring to features one of the most underrated Bond girls of all time: Margaret Nolan. She was also "the Golden Girl" in the opening credits of GOLDFINGER. What a body she had. Tall curvy and busty: totally my type! She also did a Playboy layout...the pics can be found online. Now getting back to your post...err ...sorry what was your point again?
 

EagerBeaver

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The biggest change is the marginalization of the Felix Leiter character. In early Cold War Bond he was the CIA counterpart and his alliance with Bond was necessary. In the early films he was a competent agent and capably played by Jack Lord (who would go on to superstardom as MacGarrett in Hawaii 5-0), but he and his espionage efforts were often overshadowed by Bond.

The modern era calls for a substantial rewrite and reinvigoration of this character. I would like to see Felix Leiter remade as a friendly rival, who is after the same bad guys as Bond, but is always one step behind yet has key assists and contributions along the way. Another way they can go is to remake him as a Jason Bourne type agent, a lethal killing machine whom Bond has to reign in, although this would be unworkable with the Craig version of Bond. Would be more workable with the Connery Bond. If they stay with the Craig Bond they could give Felix a comic makeover, so that he is the Abbott to Craig’s Costello- a comic sidekick who shows up to crack the lighthearted jokes you never hear from Craig.
 

Bbw hunter

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Interesting idea Eager but I think you got it backwards. Abbott was actually the straight man lol.
 

Meta not Meta

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Sorry, I couldn't resist ....

.... but The Cold War isn’t that big a deal in cinematic Bond. The producers mostly wanted to avoid real-world politics, so as not to alienate potential markets for Bond films. Even Fleming recognized this, which is why he invented SPECTRE before any Bond films had yet been made. This was when he was writing—with two others, who later sued him successfully—a treatment for what he hoped would be the first Bond film; but instead turned it into a novel, Thunderball, without crediting the other two contributors..

In the books, the Soviet counter-intelligence entity SMERSH is very much a big deal, but they are barely mentioned in the films and are never the villain. In the first Bond film, Connery suspects Dr. No is working for the Russians, but Dr. No scoffs at the idea, saying something like, “East, west, what does it matter, just two points on a compass, each as stupid as the other.” The same sentiment is present in From Russia with Love, with SPECTRE manipulating both the Russians and the British, to further some plot through Rosa Klebb, a defector from SMERSH.

It was, however, OK to make the Chinese villainous, at least indirectly. If I remember correctly they supply Goldfinger with the atomic bomb he plants at Fort Knox and are funding Blofeld in You Only Live Twice. But this is little more than barely mentioned.

I think the only time a Soviet character is truly villainous is in 1983’s Octopussy, when a crazed Russian general attempts to start WWIII—but even he is offset by the “good Russian,” Gogol, a reoccurring character throughout the Moore/Dalton years.

In The Spy Who Loved Me, the Russians actually work with the British, to foil the villain’s plot. “Détente, indeed,” one character says about this rapprochement. And by Brosnan's time, most Russian and other east European characters have gone independent or are working as contractors for sub-government entities.

Fleming and the subsequent film producers may have had cause to fear real world implications. The North Koreans are truly villainous in 2002’s Die Another Day – and later hacked, for real, Bond’s distributor Sony, though it's doubtful this was a key factor in doing so.
 

Meta not Meta

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Yeah, if not for his nationality Jack Lord could have played Bond. I think as far as the producers were concerned, he was just too cool and sexually dynamic as Felix Leiter that he risked overshadowing Connery somewhat, and so he never came back. Either that or he wanted too much money. In any case, after Lord, they never made the mistake again of surrounding a Bond actor with such a good looking, potential competitor-type ally.

BTW, David Hedison, who played Felix in Live and Let Die & Licensed to Kill, passed away yesterday.
 

EagerBeaver

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Interesting idea Eager but I think you got it backwards. Abbott was actually the straight man lol.

Yeah I screwed that up- Craig would be Abbott and Felix would be Costello LOL

I agree with Meta, Jack Lord was underused in those movies. And I think he also wanted too much money. He was later incredible as McGarrett in Hawaii Five-O and could have more than held his own with Connery if his character had been developed a little more. They had the right actor in Lord for the part, they just didn’t write the character in such a way as Lord could do anything with it. Lord hit an absolute home run with Hawaii Five-O. I have trouble watching the new Hawaii Five-O reboot because I just can’t buy the new guy as MacGarrett. Lord so defined the character that they should have created a new character.
 

Bbw hunter

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As usual Meta your analysis is spot on. The "Russian Commies" rarely figure as villians in the series. Obviously the producers wanted to keep the films light and escapist and make people forget about real world problems. You are correct in pointing out that in the early films the Russians are used as a cover to deflect attention away from the true villian,SPECTRE, which appeared to be an apolitical organization made up of international mercencies. Yes even the fanatical Russian General Orlov in OCTOPUSSY was depicted as an embarrassment to his government and was eventually disowned by the ruling party. You are right in stating that the circumstances of the Cold War did not influence the series as much as some may think. Most Bond villians are captains of industry turned crazed megalomaniacs with an apolitical agenda motivated by greed or some insane dream.
 

TheJames101

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Haha ...

Not exactly Adele ... or Shirley Bassey!

But pretty funny, nonetheless ...

... and an obvious comment on events both in and out of Bond-world:

https://youtu.be/86aFnMzn7Cs

"Save the day, baby!"

I can't say for sure of course, but you seem to be perhaps a part of some of the Bond groups online that I also am a part of... you're very quick on the news and little things like this ;)
 
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