Bred Sob, for real? You think I’m advocating telling the border agent you’re there to bang hookers? Uh, yeah, that would get you turned away. I’m saying truthfully telling an agent you’re there for a getaway weekend which includes casino and live music is a legitimate reason for travel. If you leave it at that and don’t look nervous who the hell will deny you entry? If you start rambling or babbling crap that’s not true (imaginary friends, real estate, etc) he will direct you to secondary questioning in a NY minute. And he should. I would. If pressed, simply say “I like blackjack and I appreciate live music and it’s amazing to come up here (feels like Europe).” Leave it at that and it will get you through. Simple declarative sentences with an agent are your friend.
Best way to avoid getting harassed by immigration?
- Thread starter figuroxxx
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I also don't understand why someone would need to lie. But, I see this being more about keeping it simple as opposed to an outright lie. I'm not lying when I tell a border agent that the reason for my trip is a "vacation". Does my vacation include banging some hot girls? Probably, but I'm not being asked that and I'm certainly not stupid enough to offer that as part of my answer. Less is more.
Coming up with an elaborate story about a trip filled with sporting events, museums, whatever isn't necessary. I've been grilled at the border on both sides and have kept my cool and answer questions with as little details as possible. One of the few times I've gone for secondary questioning was when I traveled with a friend who couldn't keep it simple and his answers were way to time consuming. he botched up the "what do you do for work" question by explaining what he did instead of telling the agent what his job was.
Lying? No. Telling a border agent my life story with all of the details? Not necessary.
Of course I know that. I have been to Canada dozens of times (my first visit happened about 30 years ago), and most of my border crossings went very smoothly and took no more than a couple of minutes. It is only in the last year or so that I started encountering problems.
However, the reasons you have listed (jazz, casino, etc.) meet an exact definition of "half-truth", don't they? Which is not to say they are wrong or problematic. I always use them (or similar) as well.
RobertNYC why you think talking real estate is crap? The numbers are there... Foreigners are buying a lot in Montreal and tourist area like Tremblant right now. Would seem like a valid reason to come to montreal often if you ask me. That said I understand talking about the casino and enjoying Montreal's fine restaurant is an easier buy...
Cheers,
Cheers,
Yo Jalimon!! Perhaps saying you’re looking to invest in real estate is a legitimate answer to a border agent’s question, but I would suggest using that response only if true. And even then you potentially become a target to a second round of questioning. If you use “real estate” as the reason, you need to be prepared to provide the name of an agent, explain in what areas of the city you’re looking to buy, etc. Look, if that’s a reason for visiting, go ahead and use it. It might just prompt a few more questions, which may be no big deal. But you need to know what you’re talking about.
I prefer keeping my response simple and moving on. It might leave the agent with suspicions, but he can’t deny me on the basis of the answers. No agent will say “Ahh, I know you’re NOT going to the casino, you’re NOT seeing any live musice and YOU have no plans to walk around Old Montreal.” God help us if that was ever a response.
I prefer keeping my response simple and moving on. It might leave the agent with suspicions, but he can’t deny me on the basis of the answers. No agent will say “Ahh, I know you’re NOT going to the casino, you’re NOT seeing any live musice and YOU have no plans to walk around Old Montreal.” God help us if that was ever a response.
RobertNYC and Great Waloo are directly on target with their posts. As GW noted, coming up with elaborate fantastical quasi fictional stories for a trip filled with sporting events, museums, fine dining, and other sampling of Quebec culture is a farcical comedy reality show. They are seeing things the way I do. I guess we all live in different realities as far as what a vacation is or can be.
Regarding the issue of real estate at one time I was interested in being an investor in Montreal real estate and this is certainly a legitimate reason to do a trip. However it was never the main point or intention of any one trip and I would agree with RobertNYC that it’s crap because it means you have too much time on your hands if that was the only purpose of your visit. While I never used this as a fictional reason one of my friends did tell his wife that he travelled to Montreal to stay in my condo at my invitation which was false on both counts. I discovered the lie by accident when his wife suddenly called him and he took the call and was asked what he was doing then and there. I then having caught him in the lie, forbade him to ever invoke my name in his lies again.
Similarly those here who aspire to tell “clever” stories are destined to have those stories busted. And it’s a totally, totally needless and careless thing, sort of like a basketball player who on a 4 on 1 fast break, elects to pull up and shoot a 35 foot 3 pointer. You make the easy play, not the hard play. Most of these guys probably don’t see it that way but I see it just like a dumb basketball play.
Regarding the issue of real estate at one time I was interested in being an investor in Montreal real estate and this is certainly a legitimate reason to do a trip. However it was never the main point or intention of any one trip and I would agree with RobertNYC that it’s crap because it means you have too much time on your hands if that was the only purpose of your visit. While I never used this as a fictional reason one of my friends did tell his wife that he travelled to Montreal to stay in my condo at my invitation which was false on both counts. I discovered the lie by accident when his wife suddenly called him and he took the call and was asked what he was doing then and there. I then having caught him in the lie, forbade him to ever invoke my name in his lies again.
Similarly those here who aspire to tell “clever” stories are destined to have those stories busted. And it’s a totally, totally needless and careless thing, sort of like a basketball player who on a 4 on 1 fast break, elects to pull up and shoot a 35 foot 3 pointer. You make the easy play, not the hard play. Most of these guys probably don’t see it that way but I see it just like a dumb basketball play.
Speaking as the one who prompted a lot of this discussion, I've come to agree with the philosophy of keeping things truthful and simple. I think a lot of the clever ideas sound like the sort of things dumb criminals get caught doing: They see something in a movie or TV show, think they can pull off the same gambit, fail to realize that they have only one plan of action, while the authorities spend all day seeing the same plot carried out in dozens of different ways and catching them all.
My guess is that the people who get the extra check are the ones who worry a lot, border guards are trained to pick up on various quirks. If you feel nervous you look nervous, you look nervous and they pull you aside.
Fear, guilt and shame are what drive the manifestation of such quirks. That is where the compulsion to lie is coming from- call it FGS. These guys need to clean their heads of obstacles. The brain functions better if you do not have these artificially erected hurdles inside it. Once you remove that shit, your thinking on the feet can run more freely, and smoothly.
Yogi Berra said that 50% of baseball is 90% mental, and a similar analysis applies here. 75% of going through a customs inspection is 90% mental attitude.
Patron, no doubt there will be greater scrutiny with frequent visits, but the game plan of keeping it simple should be the same. A few years ago, I traveled up to Montreal 7x in 6 months (Euphoria’s roster was off the charts, and Elite had some wonderful late night offerings). I’m guessing here, but it was likely the 4th visit when I got a raised eyebrow. But I never digressed from simple declarative sentences. “Going to casino, will likely see some live music.” “I’m going to casino later tonight, maybe tomorrow depending on how I do.” “Nope, no firm plans for live music. Maybe Hurley’s or Upstairs Jazz. I’m winging it.” The agent likely grew suspicious but I never wavered because I knew he couldn’t prove me wrong. I think he knew it too, in hindsight. He didn’t have access to a mind imprint. The whole conversation was about 45 seconds. I don’t know how much detail is recorded in their database on reasons for visiting, but unless you’re seeing the same agent frequently, a repeated simple answer doesnt necessarily cause alarm.
I have always been prepared for the question: “They don’t have casinos in Jersey?” My answer would be “ Yeah, but Atlantic City doesn’t have the same exchange rate, and I know I’m not going to get mugged walking around Old Montreal.” Then smile.
Simple declarative sentences. Confidence. Politeness. Those are all keys to border crossing Montreal. I would go as far as to say you don’t have to be clever, over-communicate, over-think or impress, you just have to give a simple explanation that could never be proven untrue. Getting into Canada is a privilege, not a right, but no agent is turning you around on the next flight out for saying you’re going to the casino and seeing live music. That’s impossible to disprove. It’s when you panic and start layering on things when asked follow up questions that you dig a hole and get into trouble.
I have always been prepared for the question: “They don’t have casinos in Jersey?” My answer would be “ Yeah, but Atlantic City doesn’t have the same exchange rate, and I know I’m not going to get mugged walking around Old Montreal.” Then smile.
Simple declarative sentences. Confidence. Politeness. Those are all keys to border crossing Montreal. I would go as far as to say you don’t have to be clever, over-communicate, over-think or impress, you just have to give a simple explanation that could never be proven untrue. Getting into Canada is a privilege, not a right, but no agent is turning you around on the next flight out for saying you’re going to the casino and seeing live music. That’s impossible to disprove. It’s when you panic and start layering on things when asked follow up questions that you dig a hole and get into trouble.
RobertNYC is right - even if you are giving the same reason for 6th trip in 7 months, that isn't going to be a problem if the answer is bulletproof. No border agent can poke a hole in your story if your story is nothing more detailed than "i absolutely love Montreal - everyone is friendly, its safe, the food is great and the bars are fun. I would come every weekend if I could!"
Precisely Luvdozer. A poster referred to my explanation as a “half-truth.” It’s not a half truth at all. It’s 100% fact. I do those activities in Montreal each and every visit. I don’t see a need to reveal plans of seeing 3 girls in a weekend anymore than the need to reveal I’m going to shave, sleep and drink beer. No agent needs an itinerary. If you took your wife or gf to Montreal, would you feel compelled to tell the agent you’re going to have sex in the shower at the Marriott Chateau? Discretion!
This discussion is getting quite amusing. Of course, each and every one of us visits Montreal for food, jazz, casinos, biking and so on. [At the very least, those lucky ones among us who obtain a special dispensation to get away from masturbating in our rooms.] And then, most naturally, we join a forum devoted to these activities to exchange notes with other frequent visitors.
It is puzzling indeed why those Border Patrol clods have the chutzpah to give some of us a hard time.
It is puzzling indeed why those Border Patrol clods have the chutzpah to give some of us a hard time.
Would this be a derail if I asked which site and what trails?
I crossed the border on a bicycle in the spring, and that was my easiest crossing ever! I returned with the bicycle in the back of a rented car, and that was pretty smooth too.
I've been wanting to circumnavigate the island the next time I'm there when it's warm.
I fly into Montreal from California. On a 2002 trip, I filled out the declaration form in French and handed it to the agent. He asked me "Étiez-vous jamais arrêté?" To me this meant "Have you ever stopped?" I never knew that "arrete" also meant "arrested." The agent finished his questions in English.
I am never filling out my declaration form in French again! Too risky.
I am never filling out my declaration form in French again! Too risky.
This is a good example of the border crossing equivalent of what I would call playing “hero ball” in basketball, characterized by bad or terrible shots taken under pressure in order to produce a “heroic” play and victory. Here, the would be “hero” exudes chest-beating bravado by showing his “cultural superiority” in deftly communicating with border guards in French. I have seen this style of “hero ball” failed more times than I can possibly count, usually with comical results.
As was said earlier in the thread, NEVER speak in French if it’s not your first language. NEVER. The constant lesson learned here is to show some humility and use your first language. Leave the “hero ball” for LeBron James in the NBA playoffs, because he is the only one who can pull it off all the time without fail.
If you don't mind me asking, have you actually read his post before "certainly agreeing"? This is what he said:
So, Sam21, are you really using your first language when speaking with border guards and other officials? I most certainly don't, had to settle for English many years ago.
There are many pearls of wisdom scattered throughout this thread, but this one probably takes the cake.
Uh, the obvious point of my post is that the Canadian border guards are expecting those crossing from the USA to address them in English, and when that doesn’t happen an alarm bell goes off whether it’s for harmless “hero ball” or perhaps something more untoward and worthy of suspicion. Anyone offering a different interpretation is just trolling. I believe Sam21 understood the point of the post and most non-trolls would understand it as well. As between English and French one of the two has to come first as a language in this situation- they aren’t likely going to be speaking in any other languages although there may be a Spanish interpreter (I certainly wouldn’t cross the border without first calling ahead and asking if there are interpreters for any other languages).
Attempting to speak French to a Francophone at a border crossing when it’s not your first language and done only for bravado or cultural puff pastry purposes, is silly decision making of the highest order.
Attempting to speak French to a Francophone at a border crossing when it’s not your first language and done only for bravado or cultural puff pastry purposes, is silly decision making of the highest order.
Well, you obviously beat me as a mind reader. I was reading the text he actually wrote, and it says something very different: "NEVER speak in French if it’s not your first language. NEVER." I suppose that admonition must sound especially convincing in Canada
As for the actual idea that you should not use a language that you don't know in an official setting -- well, this is profound indeed, we should all take this to heart. OTOH, if you can comfortably get by in French, why not use it (at least for the part of the interview). Over the years, I have actually encountered border guards who were obviously not too comfortable in English, so using an occasional French word really helped things along. And it is outright ridiculous to consider it "cultural superiority". I would suggest that it is actually common courtesy, nothing else.
Yes, colourful it certainly is. And even interesting in a sense: how a person claiming to be a lawyer can be so imprecise and sloppy with his writing.
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