Do any Sp's/Strippers know how to defend themselves?

[FunLuver]

Does anyone know where to get the Bear Mace pepper spray ? I m looking in the Montreal area. The use is for my GF, didnt expect her neighbourhood to be that bad... Want her to learn grappling and jiu-jitsu but this takes months if not years to fully use... Thanks in advance.

Krav Maga would be a good alternative though, previously mentionned by another member... very simple yet devastating... Used by the IDF... does anyone know any good schools that teach it in Mtl ?

 

[naughtylady]

FunLuver>>> the reason you cannot find the is that they are illegal to use here. However, a purse size/ sample size, can of hair spray can be just as effective.
Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[pen]

Actually, no.

While hairspray can be an effective deterrant, it is NOT just as effective as pepper or mace. At best, hairspray in the eyes will be an irritant and may cause temporary blindness but it will NOT incapacitate or markedly reduce the aggressor's ability to harm (especially in a small enclosed room - like a hotel room). Also, hairspray is meant to be dispersive and has a very broad spray pattern and thus is ineffective outside of a couple of feet AT BEST. Pepper spray (and also foam) is meant to be used in a stream and has an effective range of several yards.

Pepper (active ingredient Oleoresin Capsicum -- OC) spray is an irritant, causing severe pain when in contact with skin. It also acts as an inflammatory agent, causing inflammation in the mucous membranes of the eyes, nose, throat, and lungs. Temporary blindness occurs on contact with eyes along with intense burning, causing them to swell shut. Loss of balance and muscle coordination may occur along with severe skin irritation, difficulty breathing, and gagging. Psychological effects may include anxiety and panic, especially when breathing difficulties are experienced. (from Wikipedia)

My first exposure to OC was in a large warehouse setting where we were undergoing training in its use. One unlucky volunteer was sprayed and while it didn't take him down immediately as a TASER would, his eyes swelled shut after a few moments, he had trouble breathing, his eyes were streaming tears and he was bent over. HOWEVER, he was able to continue his attack for several steps and it did not act instantaneously. Therefore, the suggested methodology in small spaces is to spray and get the fuck out of his way and stay beyond his reach. Tripping works well in a pinch

Meanwhile, in a space with 30' ceilings and about 2000 sq. ft., within a couple of minutes, that one spray had dispersed enough where we ALL started coughing and our eyes started watering. And I believe the sprays we were using were only 2,000,000 scoville units (http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/entries/mbellringer/scoville.htm) and not law enforcement grade.

In short: hairspray is NOT the same or just as effective as pepper spray. Keeping in mind that pepper spray is used as bear deterrant, ask yourself: "Would you spray a bear in the face with hairspray?"

If you answered yes, please stay out of wilderness areas and for the love of god, leave the poor bears at the zoo in peace!

 

[orallover]

what about a simply kick in the groin?

 

[eastender]

?????

what about a simply kick in the groin?

That would be bear abuse - bearly tolerable
by most standards.

 

[varia]

Pepper spray to be found in outdoor equipement stores

You can find pepper spray in outdoors stores like Lacordée link : http://www.lacordee.com/ and Le Baron (probably)
That's where I found some maybe 2 years ago (lacordée). If I remember well they took my name and adress, but I'm not sure if I'm mixing that with their client database... (I dont give my name and adress to any database now, but I did gave it sometimes at the time so that's why I'm not sure if the name and adress is mandatory) and the guy told me something like the only legal use is against a bear or in the wild (It was the reason I bought it anyway...) So the law should be something like you can carry but it's illegal to use...

Varia

 

[EagerBeaver]

Varia,

If a guy is attempting to rape you and you blast him with a shot of pepper spray do you think he is going to get up and run down a cop and say, "hey! she blasted pepper spray in my face!" Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will you guys come on already with these posts and think about how the world goes round? If Charles Bronson was reading this thread, he would vomit!

 

[EagerBeaver]

Maxima,

He's online in vigilante heaven as we speak!

 

[orallover]

That would be bear abuse - bearly tolerable
by most standards.

??? if one kick is not good enough then kick again and 3rd time as well - until the balls explode. he might be pissed but his junior will not be the same anymore.

 

[HockeyFan4MSOG]

Varia,

If a guy is attempting to rape you and you blast him with a shot of pepper spray do you think he is going to get up and run down a cop and say, "hey! she blasted pepper spray in my face!" Come on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is making me remember the shooting on the NYC train which the guy had an illegal unregistered handgun. He got very minimual punishment for defending himself killing the would be attackers/muggers. This was 1988?

What would Canadian laws do about this situation?

EDIT.. It was 1984, the shooter was sued in 1996 for millions but claimed bankruptcy, in 2002 the shooter ran for mayor. Here is the link I found to help the fog of the OJ type coverage...
http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/history-nycta1980s.html

CAIO

 

[pen]

Am I the only one who's amused?

I mean, really. What does Charles Bronson have to do with real life? He's an ACTOR, Eager Beaver. In a MOVIE. It's all make believe.

Would you tell your client to get their law from a TV series or a movie?

As far as the kick in the groin is concerned, trust me: I've been kicked in the balls and I've kicked people in the balls. It's not pleasant but it is NOT a panacea. And if you're close enough to grab the balls, you better be tearing them off because you're within reach of a counter.

And well, to give people advice about self defense based on what you saw in a movie... well... that's kind of stupid, isn't it? Yes, I know, you never held yourself out as an expert but I mean, really...

Try volunteering at a rape crisis center, putting on a Redman suit and dealing with rape victims, trying to help them get past their attack and trying to convince them it's not their fault. And see how long it takes you to feel clean after that.

It's fucking deadly serious business and it's no less serious because we're speaking of escorts.

BTW, Ronnie, I didn't mean to denigrate the hairspray. It's a good idea if you don't have access to OC. Just as a pen or keys can be effective if you don't have a knife. They just should not be depended to do the same things.

 

[varia]

Legality of pepper spray and working under the shadow of a twisted social correctness

In hope to clarify my last comment :

My main objective was simply to provide info on where I have found a bottle of pepper spray...I go with my brain and feeling and don't really care about the law...I've done my fair share of illegal stuff, or not, following the Oliver understanding of the law!

My comment about the legality of it was simply a comment on the why it can be sold (so I made the deduction that the restrictions are on how to use it). It was a non essential comment in my post. It makes me think of the little gadgets that were sold to unscramble TV channels. I remember seeing a big board in a store saying it was illegal to "use it", still it was sold...

About the topic my goal was to provide that little bit of information about the where to find that product if it can help someone. I'm no lawyer... I have that almost utopic wish that one day the girls will be able to give their services in optimal conditions and be protected by society instead of pepper spray...We have to admit that these womans have to work inside the shadow of a twisted social correctness. A thing that really offend me is that the womans doing that work can hardly call the cops if they are attacked by an abuser without getting in trouble themselves with the law. That's, for me, an example on how the laws are quite useless when they really should be applied and it's really sad. Auto defense for immediate security, yes, but the guy is still roaming...

I hope I'm clearer now. My english if far from perfect for me to be able to state clearly all that I want to say and be read as it should. Ceci dit, je préfère le plus souvent écrire dans la langue principale d'un forum, car mon but est de communiquer et je trouve, soit dit en passant, très bien la dynamique entre le français et l'anglais dans ce forum.

Varia

 

[FunLuver]

Thanks Varia for the suggestion of locations. I' ve looked in Canadian Tires and Wal-Marts and havent found any . Will let you gents & ladies know as soon as I find a location.

 

[Firewire]

Ammonia in a squirt gun is also a great repellent if you can't get a hold of any mace.

Either way, learn how to use your fists and your senses to defend yourself, as weapons can be lost, dropped, etc!

 

[Firewire]

Collarbones are also pretty easy to break. They're pretty thin and a broken one will disable anybody.

 

[pen]

Last word

I don't want to get into a debate about what is an "effective" technique to use against an assailant. Next thing we know, we'll get into a discussion about what martial art is the best and if Charles Bronson could kick Bruce Lee's butt.

I'll just say that if any women, and escorts in particular, are interested in learning self-defense, they should take a course in self-defense for women taught with the aid of a redman suit or similar full body protection so that they can learn not only how to strick but the mental ability to strike, period.

As far as carrying weapons are concerned, no amount of hardware is going to do you any good if you are not properly trained in its use AND you have the mental fortitude to use it in case of need.

If you are going to carry a concealed deadly weapon (knife, gun), you need to think very, very carefully about possible legal and emotional ramifications of its use (and you're carrying it to USE it, not to show it off in hopes it'll scare your assailant away) and GET TRAINED.

Overall, pepper spray is probably the best incapacitator you can obtain readily, but with the caveats I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Please, be safe and trust your instincts. No matter how important you think any appointment or money or any "thing" is, it will not replace your life or return you to someone who was never a victim of rape.

And finally, remember, look both ways before you cross the street!

 

[HockeyFan4MSOG]

And finally, remember, look both ways before you cross the street!

I heard Montreal drivers normally drive on the sidewalks adopting the NYC drivers habits!

 

[Firewire]

Pen,

Well, it doesn't hurt to pass on little details one knows from experience, just in case any of the women in question haven't had the chance to enroll in any classes yet. But I do agree, as I said above, that a formal street fighting/self defense class is the best way to go.

 

[pen]

Firewire

Just keep in mind that the topic was self-defense for women. For the most part, they are going to be outweighed 2 to 1 by their assailant. They are going to be substantially weaker and smaller and in an enclosed space where speed is going to be a nonfactor.

Imagine going into a stranger's hotel room where the only thing you know going in is that the guy in the room is twice your size and strength. For most of us, it'll be like going up against an NFL lineman. Now, try to envision trying to break his collarbone with your bare hands, with no training.

I just don't feel comfortable giving that kind of advice although I know your intentions were good.

 

[Firewire]

I hear you, and I doubt anyone has been taking or will take my posts as martial arts lessons, nor was that my intention. But I just wanted to pass along little bits of info because who knows when it might come in handy.

One of the key things to remember is that when a woman fights back, even a little bit, she dramatically increases her chances of surviving an attack.