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downtown student protests - outcall disruptions

protagoras

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The Good aspect and the BAD aspects of the strike

The positive aspect of the strike is the following one: finally the the students will be in shape. After 28 consecutive nights of demonstration they have
probably lost their baby fat and know they know that there is a world out there.

Negative aspect: the faculty where I teach is back to normal since Monday, May 14th. Since I had other professional activities that were already planned (travel, International Conferences) I have told them that I'll be only able to teach in June. They agreed...but that means that I wont be able to spend my whole summer in Brazil.

Oh by the way, that's funny because yesterday while I was on my way to Redway I saw a student protest on Ascendino Rei. They were around 50 or 60....
 

protagoras

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AS I mentioned my list is for the CLASSE's associations.

The one you mentioned is probably a distinct student association. There are many more associations but I surmise that it gives us a clear picture of the reality.
 
L

Lily from Montreal

You're right ,I forgot which association it is, that's what happen when I go on Merb before my second coffee loll
 
K

Kansas Frank

:thumb:
The positive aspect of the strike is the following one: finally the the students will be in shape. After 28 consecutive nights of demonstration they have probably lost their baby fat ....

Wouldn't it be interesting if one of your female students showed up as an SP to teach you something about herself:lol::D Maybe you'll give her an A grade ;)
 

wasisname

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And I hate blanket statements shot from the hip without so much as one shred of evidence.
Thanks for one shred. However, one isolated incident does not justify a blanket statement
Did you read Boisvert's "column"? Didn't think so. Note that word "column." Columns contain opinions, not necessarily facts. I wonder on what "facts" Boisvert based his opinion. I wonder how many strikers he spoke with.

I am done with you. If you actually expect me to do research for some random schmuck on the internet to prove some minor point on some escort forum? Pay me, grade me or blow me, pick one.

I must be the biggest retard on this thread for actually spending some of my precious time looking stuff up. A whole internet filled with porn and here I was looking up something to prove to some rude little putz.
As they say, arguing on the internet is like running in the special Olympics, even if you win, you are still retarded.
 

wasisname

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saying you don't know the difference between a statement made in jest and one that is made seriously?

You mean like the picking on females things. It is perfectly normal to pick on a group when as a hoard of them are rampaging through a campus the only people they dare to get physical with are two females. In any other situation, you would use that fact to bust a groups balls. At least when I humoured, there was more than a grain of truth in it.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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I must be the biggest retard on this thread for actually spending some of my precious time looking stuff up. A whole internet filled with porn and here I was looking up something to prove to some rude little putz.
As they say, arguing on the internet is like running in the special Olympics, even if you win, you are still retarded.
My apologies. I've personally never considered it rude to ask someone to back up a statement with some documentation.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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There are 100s of 1000s marching peacefully through Montreal's streets at this very moment. Are there really that many history majors?
 

Merlot

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What is not humorous is the rather creepy interest you seem to take in most everything I post.

LOL Rumps,

Now that everyone has dumped him alone in the sports threads, his instigating reason to be on this board is GONE! So he takes his crap here, saying nothing on subject. With all the free time in the world did you expect him to write a...review??? :lol:

Poor Iggy, no one gives the instigator king any attention.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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Just watching the CBC News and I get the distinct sense that Bill 78 has backfired and that it may, in the end, help to bring down the Charest government.

The masses that took to the streets today were bolstered by many non-students now sympathetic to the cause thanks to this ugly new bill.

A question for Protogoras. Your lack of sympathy for the strike is pretty apparent. What do you think of Bill 78? Personally, I have very mixed feelings about the strike. On the one hand, I'm kind of genetically predetermined to support political actions of this sort. On the other hand, in province tuition in Quebec is less than 10% of what most US universities cost.

My student friends, mostly graduate students, Canadian citizens who have immigrated from Eastern Europe, Iran and India, tell me that there is more to it then simply dollars and cents. I confess that I'm not knowledgeable enough to have a fully formed opinion.

A friend of mine just linked to this on Facebook. It should be required reading for anyone who chooses to post on this topic.


Daniel said:
An open letter to my English-Canadian friends. Please circulate in your networks as you see fit.

You may have heard that there has been some turmoil in Quebec in recent weeks. There have been demonstrations in the streets of Montreal every night for almost a month now, and a massive demonstration will be happening tomorrow, which I will be attending, along with my wife, Elizabeth Elbourne, and my eldest daughter Emma.

Reading the Anglo-Canadian press, it strikes me that you have been getting a very fragmented and biased picture of what is going on. Given the gulf that has already emerged between Quebec and the rest of Canada in the wake of the 2011 election, it is important that the issues under discussion here at least be represented clearly. You may decide at the end of the day that we are crazy, but at least you should reach that decision on the basis of the facts, rather than of the distortions that have been served up by the G&M and other outlets.

First, the matter of the tuition hikes, which touched off this mess. The rest of the country seems to have reached the conclusion that the students are spoiled, selfish brats, who would still be paying the lowest tuition fees even if the whole of the proposed increase went through.

The first thing to say is that this is an odd conception of selfishness. Students have been sticking with the strikes even knowing that they may suffer deleterious consequences, both financial and academic. They have been marching every night despite the threat of beatings, tear-gas, rubber bullets, and arrests. It is, of course, easier for the right-wing media to dismiss them if they can be portrayed as selfish kids to whom no -one has ever said "no". But there is clearly an issue of principle here.

OK, then. But maybe the principle is the wrong one. Free tuition may just be a pie-in-the sky idea that mature people give up on when they put away childish things. And besides, why should other people pay for the students' "free" tuition? There is no such thing as "free" education. Someone, somewhere, has to pay. And the students, the criticism continues, are simply refusing to pay their "fair share".

Why is that criticism simplistic? Because the students' claim has never been that they should not pay for education. The question is whether they should do so up front, before they have income, or later, as taxpayers in a progressive taxation scheme. Another question has to do with the degree to which Universities should be funded by everyone, or primarily by those who attend them. So the issue of how to fund Universities justly is complicated. We have to figure out at what point in people's lives they should be paying for their education, and we also have to figure out how much of the bill should be footed by those who do not attend, but who benefit from a University-educated work force of doctors, lawyers, etc. The students' answer to this question may not be the best, but then it does not strike me that the government's is all that thought out either.

And at least the students have been trying to make ARGUMENTS and to engage the government and the rest of society in debate, whereas the government's attitude, other than to invoke the in-this-context-meaningless "everyone pays their faire share" argument like a mantra, has been to say "Shut up, and obey".

What strikes the balance in the students' favour in the Quebec context is that the ideal of no up-front financial hurdles to University access is enshrined in some of the most foundational documents of Quebec's Quiet Revolution, in particular the Parent Commission Report, which wrested control of schools from the Church and created the modern Quebec education system, a cornerstone of the kind of society that many Quebeckers see themselves as aspiring to. Now, it could be that that ideal is no longer viable, or that we may no longer want to subscribe to it. But moving away from it, as Charest's measures have done, at least requires a debate, analogous to the debate that would have to be had if the Feds proposed to scrap the Canada Health Act. It is clearly not just an administrative measure. It is political through and through. Indeed it strikes at fundamental questions about the kind of society we want to live in. If this isn't the sort of thing that requires democratic debate, I don't know what is.

The government has met the very reasonable request that this issue, and broader issues of University governance, be at least addressed in some suitably open and democratic manner with silence, then derision, then injunctions, and now, with the most odious "law" that I have seen voted by the Quebec National Assembly in my adult memory. It places the right of all Quebec citizens to assemble, but also to talk and discuss about these issues, under severe limitations. It includes that most odious of categories: crimes of omission, as in, you can get fined for omitting to attempt to prevent someone from taking part in an act judged illegal by the law. In principle, the simple wearing of the by-now iconic red square can be subject to a fine. The government has also made the student leaders absurdly and ruinously responsible for any action that is ostensibly carried out under the banners of their organizations. The students groups can be fined $125000 whenever someone claiming to be "part" of the movement throws a rock through a window. And so on. It is truly a thing to behold.

The government is clearly aware that this "law" would not withstand a millisecond of Charter scrutiny. It actually expires in July 2013, well before challenges could actually wind their way through the Courts. The intention is thus clearly just to bring down the hammer on this particular movement by using methods that the government knows to be contrary to basic liberal-democratic rule-of-law principles. The cynicism is jaw-dropping. It is beneath contempt for the government to play fast and loose with our civil rights and liberties in order to deal with the results of its own abject failure to govern.

So that is why tomorrow I will be taking a walk in downtown Montreal with (hopefully!) hundreds of thousands of my fellow citizens. Again, you are all free to disagree, but at least don't let it be because of the completely distorted picture of what is going on here that you have been getting from media outlets, including some from which we might have expected more.

Daniel
 

Mod 8

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Hello everyone,

Five posts in this thread have been removed. If I see any further attacks directed at other members in this thread or off topic comments, the poster will be on the receiving end of a 1 month suspension. Keep this thread on topic.

This is my one and only warning. Ignore it at your own risk.


Mod 8
 
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Gentle

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Told you !

Today was one if not the biggest act of civil disobedience in Canadian history.
No matter what is your arguments that it's only a bunch of students, that fees are the lowest in Canada, etc.

You missed the point !

Everyone who believed that the majority of the people are against it didn't watch the right news channel and got brainwashed !

The polls didn't reflect the reality and La Presse had to backtrack saying that the majority approve the movement against the gov.
People are fed up about scandals, collusion, corruption at all level while these thieves keeps on asking for more and more taxes.

You want to live in a country that leaders bullshit you on taking away taxes, on every armement sales, on how you should pay more for gas when this country is one of the top supplier ?

Go ahead and put your head in the sand and act like little docile sheeps !

I still say to some of you who wanted the army downtown 'Bring it on baby !'

Can't wait to see this gov. imploding :D

Oh ! and for the one who thinks that he knows something about history and economy ?
The Current Outstanding Public Debt of Canada is : $584,122,764,789.22

For a mere 34millions of population living on the 2nd biggest territory in the world !
Fuck!in incompetents !
 

Techman

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Dec 23, 2004
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I hate to burst your bubble, Gentle, but todays protest - except for the group that broke off from the main demonstration - was a legal one and followed the rules set out by the government so it doesn't qualify as civil disobedience. They're all up in arms about the new rules for demonstrations but don't mention that the rules in other countries or major cities are much more restrictive than what was just passed here in Quebec. In Toronto you have to make your request 2 to 3 WEEKS in advance, in France at least 20 days and have a permit and in Los Angeles 40 days and also have a permit. And trust me that breaking the rules in those places will have a lot worse results than ignoring them here in Montreal.

So you really hate the government that's in power in Quebec. Who would you like to see in their place? The PQ who are doing everything possible to fan the flames right now and who will only waste more taxpayer money on promoting separation? Or would you prefer separatist light - the CAQ - who would be so out of their depth trying to form a government that it would probably fall faster than a house of cards in a hurricane? Do you actually think anything will change no matter which party is in power?

Some people want mediation but what's the point when you have student groups who will not abide by anything a mediator comes up with unless it includes a tuition freeze? The student groups talk about negotiation but they will not move off that point which means that negotiation is a moot point.

Anyone who thinks that these demonstrations will do anything other than damage the reputation and economy of Montreal are the ones with their heads in the sand. If they disrupt the Grand Prix in the next few weeks can you imagine that the contract will be renewed? If the Jazz fest or Comedy fest are disrupted do you think there won't be financial repercussions for this city? Keep it up and Montreal will become another backwater town with no international events at all.
 

hungry101

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They did not protest dressed like this the two nights I saw them.
 

Techman

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Yeah, I went through the pics and there are a couple who aren't too bad but nothing to get up and cheer about. There's one wearing a red g-string over her grannie panties that I thought was hilarious.
 

oobe

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The positive aspect of the strike is the following one: finally the the students will be in shape. After 28 consecutive nights of demonstration they have
probably lost their baby fat and know they know that there is a world out there.

Yeah, in the US they have occupy, here we stay in shape!

On a different note, I always find it funny to hear about how law and order should be enforced... on an escort review board.
 
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