Florida mass shooting kills many teens- another one
- Thread starter jalimon
- Start date
True. And Trump keep saying it was the work of a sick guy.
Who is the most deranged the dude who kill 17 teens or the dudes that allowed him to buy a semi-automatic gun?
It is the same up here, say the individual was messed up ( and he was ) and move on. No one else changed the gun laws in the past so do not expect Trump to jump on board. Obama is ripping his mouth open but he did nothing during his 8 years in office and people were shot during that time.
This is just deja-vus EB... We have seen it all since Sandy Hook where the victims were even younger.
I am telling you it will take the killing of the son or daughter of a highly rank republican in such killing until there a chance there might be a change.
I am telling you it will take the killing of the son or daughter of a highly rank republican in such killing until there a chance there might be a change.
Never noticed but was this a fully automatic rifle? One thing I am against is fully auto, semi should still be legal, and yes, a complete gun ban would never happen. You may as well try and ban cars after a drunk driver kills someone, not gonna happen.
The right to defend yourself with a gun is fine. As written in the constitution. But the constitution was written when it took 75 seconds to reload your gun.
Same as las vegas. This is ridiculous you can buy that in the states. But kinder chocolate eggs are banned because dangerous for children.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_control_after_the_Sandy_Hook_Elementary_School_shooting
Obama did nothing ? He was blocked by the NRA, most Republicans and even a few democrats !
You really don't know what you are talking about !
My error, just thought that Obama had the power to veto whatever he wanted. He canceled the Keystone pipeline when it was approved my a huge majority. I do know what I am talking about, make a mistake a couple of times and admit it....
Guessing 3 or 4 so far.
Guessing 3 or 4 so far.
A gun ban is not the right solution. What is needed is legalized guns for people so they can carry them for self-defense. If this was the case this shooter would think twice before going on a killing spree and if he went with it he would not have last long. Automatic firearms should be banned since they serve no other purpose then for mass killings as in the military. A semi-automatic for self-defense is needed. I think Canada should follow this lead also. The US and Canada should follow the lead of Israel... Teachers should be trained and carry firearms. The best security is an armed faculty. Gun free zones do not work.
I'm pretty liberal (no shit) but I also like facts. So a few points from things I've read in this thread:
-No it is not the 18th school shooting this year. While unacceptable by any measure, the number is far less than that. That figure comes from a gun control group with questionable methodology. Their methods basically consisted of "Did a gun go off on school premises in any context?" If the answer is yes, that was included as a school shooting. So included in that eighteen number was a man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an abandoned school, two kids who shot at a school building at night with no students present, a number of accidental discharges (one from a school cop's gun), and a number of incidents where no one else was hurt (discounting the suicide).
The Florida shooting might be the 2nd one this year, by usual mass shooting parlance. I say "might" because the CA shooting a few weeks ago that hurt a few children was deemed an accident. Does it raise questions like "Why bring a gun to school at all?" Of course, it does but the arrested child did not come to school intent on murder.
Focusing on AR-15s as the mass shooter's weapon of choice misses the point. Is it a civilian, semiauto version of a MILITARY weapon? Absolutely. If anything will ever be done about guns, a more robust conversation is required. The VA Tech shooter killed roughly twice as many as yesterday's attack with two handguns and no "assault rifle." We can have as bad or worse an incident as yesterday even if the Assault Weapons Ban were reinstated. There are a bunch of little steps that can move the country forward but one party would rather take money and influence from the biggest lobbying group than protect children and everyone else. Our Congress is so craven that we can't even write legislation to outlaw a device that effectively circumvents the ban on automatic weapons-- which is how the worst shooting ever happened (October 2017). I'm not asking for banning guns because it is impractical in a country where 300 million guns are already in circulation. But the status quo right now is erring on the 2nd Amendment rights of a citizen rather than abrogating that right if he or she might not have the mental state or temperament to own a gun.
Also, Obama made a few minimal steps but was mostly blocked by a Republican Congress. Of course, when you stake the wingnut position that Democrats are coming for your guns--which has never been proposed--it's hard to have reasoned debate. Gun prices and units sold soared during Obama's tenure because he was "coming to take the guns." That never happened so they moved onto Hillary as the next bogeywoman (?). Someone told me in 2016 that if Hillary won, guns would be outlawed and the police would go door-to-door to retrieve all the guns in America (yeah, remember that 300 million number from earlier? Yeah, we have a lot of stupid people in this country. Incidentally, this guy watches a lot of Fox News). Now gun demand has gone down with Trump in office.
-No it is not the 18th school shooting this year. While unacceptable by any measure, the number is far less than that. That figure comes from a gun control group with questionable methodology. Their methods basically consisted of "Did a gun go off on school premises in any context?" If the answer is yes, that was included as a school shooting. So included in that eighteen number was a man who committed suicide in the parking lot of an abandoned school, two kids who shot at a school building at night with no students present, a number of accidental discharges (one from a school cop's gun), and a number of incidents where no one else was hurt (discounting the suicide).
The Florida shooting might be the 2nd one this year, by usual mass shooting parlance. I say "might" because the CA shooting a few weeks ago that hurt a few children was deemed an accident. Does it raise questions like "Why bring a gun to school at all?" Of course, it does but the arrested child did not come to school intent on murder.
Focusing on AR-15s as the mass shooter's weapon of choice misses the point. Is it a civilian, semiauto version of a MILITARY weapon? Absolutely. If anything will ever be done about guns, a more robust conversation is required. The VA Tech shooter killed roughly twice as many as yesterday's attack with two handguns and no "assault rifle." We can have as bad or worse an incident as yesterday even if the Assault Weapons Ban were reinstated. There are a bunch of little steps that can move the country forward but one party would rather take money and influence from the biggest lobbying group than protect children and everyone else. Our Congress is so craven that we can't even write legislation to outlaw a device that effectively circumvents the ban on automatic weapons-- which is how the worst shooting ever happened (October 2017). I'm not asking for banning guns because it is impractical in a country where 300 million guns are already in circulation. But the status quo right now is erring on the 2nd Amendment rights of a citizen rather than abrogating that right if he or she might not have the mental state or temperament to own a gun.
Also, Obama made a few minimal steps but was mostly blocked by a Republican Congress. Of course, when you stake the wingnut position that Democrats are coming for your guns--which has never been proposed--it's hard to have reasoned debate. Gun prices and units sold soared during Obama's tenure because he was "coming to take the guns." That never happened so they moved onto Hillary as the next bogeywoman (?). Someone told me in 2016 that if Hillary won, guns would be outlawed and the police would go door-to-door to retrieve all the guns in America (yeah, remember that 300 million number from earlier? Yeah, we have a lot of stupid people in this country. Incidentally, this guy watches a lot of Fox News). Now gun demand has gone down with Trump in office.
You don't think that lumping any gun activity at a school as a "school shooting" is misleading in order to further one's cause? "18 events involving gunfire" is closer to the truth but it still says so little. This same group would have added to the tally if a cop was defending someone else via a gunshot if it happened on school premises. It might sound like a problem of semantics but it's not. Media sensationalism aside, there is a genuine reason most of those other incidents don't get much coverage: intent and context always matter. I don't want anyone to commit suicide but there's far less horror there than someone coming to a school to kill people wantonly and randomly.
This doesn't mean I'm an apologist for school shootings or that we don't have a huge gun violence problem. If you can read for context and read everything I said, that can't possibly be your conclusion. I was merely correcting your number because it has circulated the Internet twice over and it's a misleading one. I was also addressing the type-of-gun argument that many gun-averse/unaware liberals here use, that is if AR-15s were banned casualties wouldn't be so high. Only problem is we've had mass shootings that shatter that notion. Ultimately, we would be collectively safer without any guns at all but that will never be a political reality. (Collective safety assumes even criminals don't have guns either). Due to our history and our Constitution it's a non-starter, to say nothing of how to call back about 300,000,000 guns already in circulation.
If you're thinking a nationwide gun buyback and ban like Australia implemented, American gun volumes dwarf that. A rough analysis: according to Factcheck.org, the gun ban and buyback program removed over 700,000 Australian guns from private citizens. That number constituted about 20% of total guns owned, according to one study. Based on that percentage, rough estimate of total guns in Australia is about 3,500,000 which is only about roughly 2% of the total guns currently in this country. So if an outright ban is not politically or practically feasible here, next best thing is to limit those who can own a gun via/ammo limits/magazine size limits/registration etc. You'd be amazed to know not every state requires people to register their guns. But that's all part of the common-sense approach stuff we lack here for various reasons.
Mass shootings will never move Republicans to act. It didn't move them when almost 30 young kids were killed at Newtown. It didn't move them when a crazy jackass shot at Congressmen themselves last June.
That's not my business. The 18 events as well as the death toll is listed precisely, that's all it matters. I'm not interested in those lenghty as much as useless comments over semantics. 17 children were killed in a school for fucks sake yet some people here believe that finding faults over insignificant details is more important. Pathetic.
