General Thoughts on this Political Section

[Like_It_Hot]

Since the Trump Years, we see more and more people trying to use this section not to share and discuss politic but to push there own agenda. They do not seem interested in debating. They repeat the same assumptions over and over again, using expressions like "radical left", "liberal" and other hollow words that they attach to political parties or leaders towards whom they feel an aggressiveness that is difficult to understand. They create division by having a closed position vis-à-vis emerging issues such as gender identity and diversity in the expression of this identity. They try to persuade others that certain races, especially blacks, are more prone to violence and responsible for the most horrible crimes such as mass murder by choosing anecdotes without considering the social situation and especially by deliberately omitting scientific studies. serious about these matters. Feeding these discussion threads does not lead to anything since a party is totally closed to trying to understand those who differ with them.

This morning I found a fable that illustrates very well the best attitude to adopt in this situation.
It speaks of the Lion and the Ass and goes as follows:

Fable: DON'T ARGUE WITH “DONKEYS”

The donkey said to the tiger:
- "The grass is blue".

The tiger replied:
- "No, the grass is green."

The discussion heated up, and the two decided to submit him to arbitration, and for this they went before the lion, the King of the Jungle.

Already before reaching the forest clearing, where the lion was sitting on his throne, the donkey began to shout:
- "His Highness, is it true that the grass is blue?".

The lion replied:
- "True, the grass is blue."

The donkey hurried and continued:
- "The tiger disagrees with me and contradicts and annoys me, please punish him."

The king then declared:
- "The tiger will be punished with 5 years of silence."

The donkey jumped cheerfully and went on his way, content and repeating:
- "The Grass Is Blue"...

The tiger accepted his punishment, but before he asked the lion:
- "Your Majesty, why have you punished me?, after all, the grass is green."

The lion replied:
- "In fact, the grass is green."

The tiger asked:
- "So why are you punishing me?".

The lion replied:
- "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave and intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that come and bother me with that question."

The worst waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who does not care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions. Never waste time on arguments that don't make sense...

There are people who, no matter how much evidence and evidence we present to them, are not in the capacity to understand, and others are blinded by ego, hatred and resentment, and all they want is to be right even if they are not.

When ignorance screams, intelligence is silent. Your peace and quiet are worth more.

 

[Rosie Sparkles]

I hear you but the issue I have with that point of view is that if there is only bigotry being said here, this create the illusion that it is the only and main view of actors of the industry. For exemple, it takes me little to no effort to say to a transphobic person that what they are saying is stupid. And for my trans colleague, at least they can see that it's not everyone that think that their existence shouldn't be. It is, I think, our duty to shut down hate if we have the privilege to do so. In your exemple, the donkey was wrong but he wasn't arguing against human rights.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

I hear you but the issue I have with that point of view is that if there is only bigotry being said here, this create the illusion that it is the only and main view...

I feel exactly the same! I may comment from time to time, to put in evidence the non-sens, but once this done, I will not continue to argue with bigots and give them the chance to repeat their non-sens thesis. In fact I will try to not interact with them. I will address the good-faith people only, with whom I may agree ou disagree.

I also noted some strange threads where the same person is just publishing the same thing, over and over, without almost anybody interacting with him.

 

[nothinghere]

The lion replied:
- "That has nothing to do with the question of whether the grass is blue or green. The punishment is because it is not possible for a brave and intelligent creature like you to waste time arguing with a donkey, and on top of that come and bother me with that question."

That is a great insight!

Well imagine a future with the donkey becomes AI??!!

A.I. TO WRITE NEWS

Disturbed - Land Of Confusion [Official Music Video]

 

[minutemenX]

When ignorance screams, intelligence is silent. Your peace and quiet are worth more.

When dialog stops the guns start shooting, remember that. You want continuation of the story? The donkey was killed an eaten by the tiger. Why? Because Lion King said that the donkey is stupid (Lion obviously did not know anything about color blindness). So, why anyone should care about stupid that deserves their fate? Opinions and trends that for you may look absurd has some rational for other people. In most cases not because people are inherently bad or stupid but because they simply have different values. Even minority deserves respect and be heard and openly debated on accessible and unbiased platforms. The logic and rational arguments may or may not convince hardliners but may be convincing to other people who may have similar or borderline beliefs. This is the only way.

 

[Rosie Sparkles]

What some of you seem incapable of understanding is that many of us who hate Trump see the same characteristics in The Left as we do in MAGA.

Misgendering should be a crime, according to millennials

Among Americans as a whole, most think it should be legal to call someone by the wrong pronouns.

www.newsweek.com

If you don’t understand that, please watch this episode of Black Mirror. In fact, please watch all episodes of Black Mirror.

The Hidden Meaning Behind ‘Black Mirror’s Weird Little Cartoon Bear Waldo

What does Waldo truly represent?

collider.com

The left don't kill people? It's not the same? lol
You are looking for obscure sources to validate your cognitive dissonance instead of just looking at the news or outside. The ''queer agenda'' is not real. It's a matter of human rights. You don't need to agree or like people, just let them be who they want to be. It's absolutely not the same as voting against access to health care or bringing guns into schools, etc. lol It's so weird that you can't see the difference between people being trans and people being biggots. One doesn't step on the other right to live.

 

[Rosie Sparkles]

For a forum about having sex and enjoying life, you guys sure like to bring down the mood.

 

[CaptRenault]

The left don't kill people? It's not the same? lol
You are looking for obscure sources to validate your cognitive dissonance instead of just looking at the news or outside. The ''queer agenda'' is not real. It's a matter of human rights. You don't need to agree or like people, just let them be who they want to be. It's absolutely not the same as voting against access to health care or bringing guns into schools, etc. lol It's so weird that you can't see the difference between people being trans and people being biggots. One doesn't step on the other right to live.

I realize that English is not your native language but I have no idea what you are trying to say.

Who on this board or what prominent conservative has taken the position that trans people have no right to live? Can you give even one example of that?

Why do liberals scream “hate speech!” or “they are threatening to kill me” every time someone disagrees with them? It’s not an effective or mature way to discuss issues of the day, but I realize that it is a condition that commonly afflicts young, progressive white women.

You really need to improve your debating skills.

 

[Rosie Sparkles]

Dudes, go outside and touch some grass. The capitalists still rule the world, there are still a rise of the right, you're just spreading the general consensus which is to hate what we don't understand. Nothing revolutionary lol

 

[CaptRenault]

you're just spreading the general consensus which is to hate what we don't understand.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Please stay on subject: This thread is not about the right or the left. It is about the incapacity of some of debating and understanding. Insulting others saying they lack skill is an other tactic used by people unable of manifesting empathy because they are just speaking to themselves and they are unable to face people having a different vision of life.

 

[Nutsinho]

The whole section should be SHUT DOWN.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

What some of you seem incapable of understanding is that many of us who hate Trump see the same characteristics in The Left as we do in MAGA.

Misgendering should be a crime, according to millennials

Among Americans as a whole, most think it should be legal to call someone by the wrong pronouns.

www.newsweek.com

If you don’t understand that, please watch this episode of Black Mirror. In fact, please watch all episodes of Black Mirror.

The Hidden Meaning Behind ‘Black Mirror’s Weird Little Cartoon Bear Waldo

What does Waldo truly represent?

collider.com

As someone who knows by this point that's he's a dyed-in-the-wool leftie, I agree with you!

There are definitely elements of the "Left" that need to take a chill pill. I use air quotes because there are many things people don't like that are simply misattributed to the nebulous Left. About eight months ago, I once had a nice lady tell me that her new workplace (she was unemployed for a few months) monitors and asks her to get permission to go the bathroom (she's on diuretics because of a medical condition so she has to pee a lot) and that was communism! My retort was, "No, that's more like cruel capitalism."

But lest I digress too much, I agree with you. There are certainly elements of the Left that go too far and lose sight of the bigger picture in their attempt to create an equitable world. Some don't know how to pick their battles. Saying misgendering should be criminal is an extreme solution in response to someone accidentally using a dead name or doubling down as an asshole.

Another example: in 2021 there was a fight at a NY restaurant with a few Black patrons involved. The Black customers claimed their server was racist, so some white guy--either in a bid for attention or genuinely expressing his anti-bigotry bona fides--started protesting the restaurant with placards and histrionics that the restaurant was "Racist!" despite likely not having any intimate detail of what actually transpired.

Where we likely won't agree is that even though there are pockets of the Left/progressives that are substituting a level of intolerance in response to intolerance, it's unquestionable that the level of polarization and extremism within conservative circles greatly outpaces any leftist extremism. And the ultimate source stems from what Like It Hot brought up: there are many elements of conservatism/Republicanism that no longer have any interest in debating facts or merits of any given issue.

The transgender one is a very good example. Even if you don't like transgenderism, the "Live and Let Live" principle is still an operative one, correct? Same goes for abortion. You may not agree with either issue but the only person you can decide for is yourself! You shouldn't be deciding that you are the arbiter that OTHER parents can't get gender-affirming care for their own children or if a woman wants an abortion. To underscore the extremism of modern conservatism on abortion, the rape and incest exceptions that Republicans once agreed to have been done away with. Similarly, a number of states have passed laws handcuffing parents who might seek transgender services for their kids.

But even with the transgender thread on this board when people were disabused--with genetic data--that in a small minority of cases your genetic sex doesn't align with your own perception of your gender, there were people like Captain Renault who just retreated to their talking points and not debating the arguments on its merits. In the US political climate, you have conservatives going even further that transgenderism is some attempt to "recruit kids."
When certain people couldn't wrap their heads around the fact that some people are gay and it wasn't a conscious choice (much like me liking women as a man isn't a conscious choice of any sort), they reverted to being kids were being recruited to be gay; now the kids are being recruited to be transgender too. There is a similar dynamic in the abortion debate where Republicans keep insisting Democrats want abortion up to the 9th month of pregnancy. What ties the conservative position in both issues is a failure to debate known facts. Abortion not being your cup of tea shouldn't prevent you from understanding that people having very late abortions are doing so for medical and unexpected reasons, rather than glibly deciding, "Eh I don't want a mom anymore." Once again, if a woman was that callous it's not your call. If abortion is a sin, then god will punish her.

So the person advocating criminal statutes for misgendering goes too far. But that hypothetical proposal is small cakes compared to the person doing their best to prove he's an asshole by deliberating calling someone by a name they don't want to be referred to by.

The guy protesting the restaurant? Certified jackass. But virtue signaling aside, he's right about one thing: racial bigotry is wrong. The flip side of that in conservatism is where racism isn't disqualifying but where Neo-Nazis are making inroads with the Republican Party.

To close, in 2012 Washington Post published an editorial titled, "Let's face it: Republicans are the problem." It discussed the asymmetric polarization taking place between both parties and how that polarization to the extreme end is stronger on the right. There are examples of this everywhere. Even simple governmental workings are ground to a halt because of GOP extremism. Once overwhelmingly bipartisan, the ability to fund the military is laughably being held up right now by party members generally perceived to be more pro-military. We averted a self-inflicted debt ceiling default because Republicans, once again divorced from logical consistency from what happened when a Republican was president and what the vote actually represents, wanted to negotiate the budget during debt ceiling debate. The reason there is an ever widening gulf between left and right is because only one side still cares about substantive deliberation, as opposed to foaming at the mouth.

 

[CLOUD 500]

What the OP brought up is a mere symptom of the increasing polarization in the political landscape in Canada and is even more pronounced in the US. We can see evidence of this polarization on this board. However there is a fallacy in what OP wrote, he talked about others not being able to debate or understand... But that is failed argument. Due to the extreme polarization in political views, we see a big disconnect and people are not seeing eye to eye on many important issues. I doubt it will get better, in fact the gap will widen. Most probably due to in these recent years we had extremist politicians by North American standards gain power and possibly causing influence in peoples thinking. I personally post much less these days as it always get heated in politics and the insults come. Social media is the worst for that.

About what Patron mentioned, I personally never said that transgender/homosexuals have no rights and I did not see anyone else on this board say that. I am always for the individual, what I am against is the state using public funds to promote it like gender theory education to kids (this is madness they are only children) and using public funds to pay transgender people to read stories to kids. We also see a big disagreement with the gun issue, there is an active thread on weapons in the USA. And there is the abortion debate. As we can see it is more the disconnect and polarization, not lack of understanding or failure to debate. One important thing to mention and is my biggest criticism, in debating politics or anything else is people that turn to insulting because someone does not agree with them, that is where I cut it off and move on.

In the USA the issue is more with the far-right, but in Canada the problem is more with the far-left. Either one is no good.