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Hamas & Israel

poupsy

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An Arab blogger, Hoda Janat, writes:

Suddenly we discovered that in Gaza, where 2 million people live... there are 36 hospitals There are Arab countries with 30 million citizens that have this number of hospitals. Suddenly we discovered that Gaza receives free water, electricity, gas and fuel from Israel. Of course there is no Arab citizen who pays water, electricity and gas bills. We suddenly found out that Gaza receives 30 million dollars a month from Qatar alone and 120 million dollars a month from UNRA and $50 million in the European Union and $30 million in America. There are good Arab countries in debt and can't find anyone to help them, even with a million dollars. Suddenly we discovered that Gaza is not besieged, and all goods enter it, as do foreigners and those of foreign nationality. Most of them went to Egypt and from there to the rest of the world, and Papo is the great example. Suddenly we discovered that Gaza lives better than many Arab countries.
 

Bignose

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It has taken a couple months for the extent of the atrocities committed by Hamas to be revealed. Dealing with 1200 victims takes time and many bodies were burned or disfigured, as the Wall Street Journal reports in the article below.

I fully understand why Israel must react to the Hamas attack by waging total war against Hamas and its followers--and by "followers" I mean most of the people of Gaza.

The people of Gaza put Hamas in charge and supported them along every step of the way to October 7. The Gazans took welfare payments from all over the world (especially Iran and Arab countries) and instead of using it to build a normal society, used the money to build tunnels, import weapons, launch rockets against Israeli civilians and brainwash their children and fellow citizens to follow a radical, Jew-hating, death-obsessed version of Islam.

They brought their misery on themselves and I have no sympathy for them. I hope Israel continues its war as long as necessary to teach the Gazans that they will never succeed in destroying Israel but that they will succeed in destroying their own society unless thery give up their own dysfunctional, backwards and self-destructive ideology.




NIR OZ, Israel—Eitan Cunio heard the militants enter his house and watched as gasoline seeped under the door of the safe room where he sheltered with his wife and two children.

His 1-year-old daughter was crying as the family’s home in Kibbutz Nir Oz was set alight and smoke began entering the room. Cunio put wet sheets at the bottom of the door and told his family they would stay inside rather than be killed or kidnapped. If we die, we die together at home, he said.

Before passing out, Cunio sent a tearful voice note to a friend in his community: “Brother, it’s horrible. We are going to die.”
Months have passed since the October day Israelis call Black Sabbath, when Hamas-led militants rampaged into Israel from Gaza, an attack that officials say killed some 1,200 people and included acts of torture, mutilation and sexual violence. Israeli investigators are now using some 200,000 photographs and videos and 2,000 witness testimonies to reconstruct what happened, with an eye toward building a legal case against those responsible that would meet international standards and provide a definitive historical accounting of the Oct. 7 attack.

Reporters from The Wall Street Journal examined some of that evidence, supplemented with interviews of first responders, survivors, families of victims and forensic scientists, to document an attack that Israeli Police Commissioner Kobi Shabtai described as “systematic and unprecedented in its cruelty.”
Forensic evidence shared with the Journal by Israeli officials shows some victims were burned alive after militants used accelerants to set fire to their homes. Photos viewed by the Journal taken by first responders on the scene show bodies were mutilated including the sex organs of both men and women. The bodies of women and girls showed various signs of sexual assault, and recently, at least three female survivors have come forward to say they experienced sexual violence on Oct. 7.

...Israel has identified about 800 dead civilians from Oct. 7, including 37 minors under the age of 17, six of whom were under 5. Some 25 people over the age of 80 were killed, including a 94-year-old woman, according to the prime minister’s office.

Hamas militants and others kidnapped roughly 250 people on Oct. 7, according to Israeli authorities.

Dead bodies were taken to an Israeli military base where they were processed and those that were unidentifiable sent to the National Center of Forensic Medicine, which took fingerprints, conducted X-rays and CT scans and removed tissue samples for DNA extraction.

Scans revealed signs of torture and execution, according to Dr. Chen Kugel, head of the forensics center. In some cases, the center found soot in the trachea, indicating people were burned alive as they inhaled smoke before bodies charred, he said. Others were burned after they were already dead.

One scan of blackened remains viewed by the Journal revealed two spines and two rib cages belonging to a child and an adult who were bound together with metal wire and burned alive, Kugel said. He added that more than 20 bodies were found with hands bound with zip ties or electric cords, indicating execution.

Militants posted videos of some of the killings and kidnappings on victims’ social media pages, where friends and family watched. When militants forced their way into Noam Elyakim’s home, they shot him in the leg, then took his wife’s phone and livestreamed the family being taken hostage on Facebook. In another instance, Shay Shimoni saw a video posted by militants of her 75-year-old mother dead in a pool of blood. The Journal viewed both videos, which are no longer online.

New details about sexual violence also are emerging. Investigators initially found no rape survivors, but at least three women have since come forward to the Ministry of Welfare saying they experienced sexual violence, said Ayelet Razin Bet Or, a former government official helping with the investigation.

One witness saw militants gang rape a woman and then cut off her breast, according to police testimony viewed by the Journal. First responders said they saw signs of sexual violence, including women found naked or with their underwear pulled down or tops removed.

The Journal saw images taken by a first responder of a naked woman with a knife and three nails in the crotch area, women whose clothing was partially or entirely removed and women with blood from the crotch area. In another image provided by the first responder, a woman’s breast was almost entirely sliced off. Her shirt was ripped away and she had a knife wound in the neck. In two other photos a naked man was found gagged and shot and one photo showed a man’s eyeball had been removed.

Shari Mendes, 62, a reservist in the Israeli army who helped identify bodies after Oct. 7, said people were shot in the head so many times they were disfigured.

...Sexual assault
At the festival, Hamas militants began to sexually assault women, witnesses told the police. Fighters took women back to Gaza with them, and in one example, paraded the half-naked body of a female festival goer in the back of a pickup, according to a widely shared video on Telegram.

In a recording of a phone call that morning, militants driving in Israel cheered as one of them talked about raping a woman.

“I am going to f— her, I am going to f— her,” he told another person on the line, according to an unverified recording shared with the Journal by Israeli officials...
 

CaptRenault

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"In contrast, Gaza and other Arab Muslim lands are governed by undemocratic, intolerant and oppressive governments. If those dissidents were in Gaza or other Arab lands and were protesting state policies, they would be swiftly arrested, jailed and maybe tortured and killed."

Supported by Western policies, just a small reminder.

A brief video of Israeli police cracking a few heads of ultra-Orthodox Jews proves absolutely nothing. They were probably doing something illegal or had resisted an order from police to disburse. Nothing bad happened to them-they were not arresed,, tortured and killed as would happen to protestors in Gaza and most Arab countries or in Iran.

Those people are a tiny minority of Jews in Israel and their objection to Israel is purely based on obscure interpretations of Jewish scripture. In their extremism, they are not much different than Muslims in Gaza-except they don't control the government of a whole country based on their radical religious beliefs (as Hamas does). They also don't commit acts of terrorism against Muslims or their fellow Jews. Most of all, their objection to the country of Israel is not out of any sympathy for the Palestinians-they couldn't care less about them.


As for Western support of countries like Saudi Arabia and Egypt, it's a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils--either the U.S. supports its friends like Israel, Saudi Arabia and Egypt or enemies of the West like Iran, Russia, China and the Muslim Brotherhood will dominate the Middle East.
 
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EagerBeaver

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Those people are a tiny minority of Jews in Israel and their objection to Israel is purely based on obscure interpretations of Jewish scripture. In their extremism, they are not much different than Muslims in Gaza-except they don't control the government of a whole country based on their radical religious beliefs (as Hamas does).
Ironically most of the Orthodox/ultra conservative Jews do not share the same opinions and views as some of these protesters who had their heads cracked. Most of them are extremely pro-Zionist and expansionist nutcases. They are also a small minority but a vocal and dangerous one within Israel, and responsible for some shenanigans in the West Bank. Like the protesters who got their heads knocked, they are far from the mainstream in Israel. They are just a small group of religious zealots with extreme views. Many Israelis view them as troublemakers, politically speaking, and do not share their views on anything.
 

poupsy

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This is the current state of world politics and conflicts:

Russia: the civilian population in Palestine can’t be bombed, but in Ukraine it can.

Turkey: 4M Palestinians have the right to their own state, but 40M Kurds do not.

Egypt: we worry about the Palestinians, but we won’t let them in.

Syria: we don’t allow journalists so no one cares about the 300000 sunnis we killed with Iran help

Houthis of Yemen: our country is in complete devastation, but we will fight Israel.

Western leftists & LGBT activists: Palestinians are wonderful peaceful people, but we won’t go to them, they’ll kill us there.

Hamas: we should not take care of the residents of Gaza, let the UN take care of them


The hypocrisy is unsustainable.
 

EagerBeaver

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The hypocrisy is unsustainable.
Certain posters in this thread have, much like ostriches, stuck their heads in the sand in order to be oblivious to the assorted hypocrisies of those who support the so called Palestinian cause, which you have exposed. The truth is that in the desert, there is plenty of sand into which they can stick their heads. While they do that, we can continue to look at the reality of what lies above the sand.
IMG_6375.jpeg
 

poupsy

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Certain posters in this thread have, much like ostriches, stuck their heads in the sand in order to be oblivious to the assorted hypocrisies of those who support the so called Palestinian cause, which you have exposed. The truth is that in the desert, there is plenty of sand into which they can stick their heads. While they do that, we can continue to look at the reality of what lies above the sand.
View attachment 62951
The hard truth is that every palestinian supporter supports also hamas’s end goal wich is wiping of Israel and jews
Just look at how they draw the map of a eventual palestinian state, how they turn a blind eye on hamas charter and how they try to intimidate Jewish people in our country.
Frankly I would be more supportive of the palestinian people if they were less hypocritical, more realistic in a viable solution for both and at least not celebrating rapes and murders.
Laughing emojis don’t make an argument
 

EagerBeaver

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The moronic President of Harvard has resigned, not because of her attempt to bullshit Congress about her anti-semitism, but rather due to her lying and plagiarism that were used to advance her into the Presidency of Harvard, a position she has since proved is way, way, way over her head:
Good riddance! I just hope that the Harvard board doesn't cave to the financial pressure of losing hundreds of millions of dollars from Jewish donors by hiring a Jewish president friendly to the Israeli cause, as this would be the ultimate hypocrisy. I suspect they want that money back on the table however, and while it would be nice if they could send bills to a couple of posters in this thread, they cannot.
 

CaptRenault

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While Israeli intelligence services failed miserably to detect the Hamas terror attack of October 7, they have bounced back nicely since then.

Today's targeted killing of a Hamas leader (Saleh al-Arouri, deputy chairman of Hamas' political bureau and the commander of the group's military wing in the West Bank) in Beirut was a masterful stroke and the fulfillment of a promise made a month ago to hunt down and kill Hamas leaders wherever they are hiding. Well done by the Mossad!

Message to Hamas leaders: don't sleep in the same place two nights in a row.



TEL AVIV—Israel’s intelligence services are preparing to kill Hamas leaders around the world when the nation’s war in the Gaza Strip winds down, setting the stage for a yearslong campaign to hunt down militants responsible for the Oct. 7 massacres, Israeli officials said.

With orders from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Israel’s top spy agencies are working on plans to hunt down Hamas leaders living in Lebanon, Turkey and Qatar, the small Gulf nation that has allowed the group to run a political office in Doha for a decade, the officials said.

The assassination campaign would be an extension of Israel’s decadeslong clandestine operations that have become the subject of both Hollywood legend and worldwide condemnation. Israeli assassins have hunted Palestinian militants in Beirut while dressed as women, and killed a Hamas leader in Dubai while disguised as tourists. Israel has used a car bomb to assassinate a Hezbollah leader in Syria and a remote-controlled rifle to kill a nuclear scientist in Iran, according to former Israeli officials.

For years, countries such as Qatar, Lebanon, Iran, Russia and Turkey have provided Hamas, a U.S.-designated terrorist group, with a measure of protection. And Israel has at times refrained from targeting the Palestinian militants to avoid creating diplomatic crises.

The new plans would mark a second chance for Netanyahu, who ordered a botched 1997 attempt to poison Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal in Jordan. The well-documented attempt instead led to the release of Hamas’s spiritual leader, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin.

To the consternation of some Israeli officials who want the latest plans to remain a mystery, Netanyahu telegraphed his intentions in a nationwide address on Nov. 22.
“I have instructed the Mossad to act against the heads of Hamas wherever they are,” he said, referring to Israel’s foreign-intelligence service.

In the same address, Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said Hamas leaders are living on “borrowed time.”

“They are marked for death,” he said. “The struggle is worldwide, both the terrorists in Gaza and those who fly in expensive planes.”

While Israel typically tries to keep such efforts secret, the nation’s leaders have shown few reservations about revealing their intentions to hunt down everyone responsible for the Oct. 7 attack, just like they did to those responsible for the Palestinian terrorist attack that killed 11 Israeli athletes and coaches at the Munich Olympics in 1972.

Israel is already working to kill or capture Hamas leaders inside Gaza, the officials said. The question now for Israeli leaders isn’t about whether to try to kill Hamas leaders elsewhere in the world, but where—and how, the officials said.

The evolving plans are an extension of Israel’s war in Gaza and a reflection of its intentions to ensure that Hamas can never again pose a serious threat to Israel—just as the U.S. led a global coalition against Islamic State militants who set up a self-proclaimed caliphate in parts of Iraq and Syria. As part of the effort, Israel is also looking at whether it could forcibly expel thousands of low-level Hamas fighters from Gaza as a way to shorten the war.

Targeted killings abroad can violate international law and run the risk of blowback from nations in which assassins operate without their permission. In practice, however, Israel and others have pursued targeted killings and weathered the repercussions.

Israel’s plans to target Hamas leaders began to take shape shortly after Oct. 7, when Hamas militants carried out a brazen cross-border attack that Israel said killed 1,200 people, most of them civilians. More than 200 others, including American and Europeans holding dual Israeli citizenship, were abducted and taken back to Gaza.

Some Israeli officials wanted to launch an immediate campaign to kill Meshaal and other Hamas leaders living abroad, the officials said. The officials were especially incensed by a video of Meshaal, and other Hamas leaders, including its top political chief, Ismail Haniyeh, celebrating and praying at one of their offices while watching live news coverage of the Oct. 7 attacks.

Israel isn’t known to have carried out any targeted-killing operations in Qatar, and doing so after Oct. 7 could have torpedoed continuing efforts to negotiate the release of those held hostage, the officials said. Those concerns helped temper efforts to immediately embark on the assassination campaign, but the planning continues, they said.

Qatar has become the central hub for the hostage talks, with the head of the Mossad, David Barnea, meeting CIA chief William Burns in Doha earlier this week for more discussions. Doha has helped to secure the release of dozens of Israeli hostages held by Gaza militants in return for the release of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons. More than 130 hostages remain in Gaza, according to Israel’s account...

 
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poupsy

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The moronic President of Harvard has resigned, not because of her attempt to bullshit Congress about her anti-semitism, but rather due to her lying and plagiarism that were used to advance her into the Presidency of Harvard, a position she has since proved is way, way, way over her head:
Good riddance! I just hope that the Harvard board doesn't cave to the financial pressure of losing hundreds of millions of dollars from Jewish donors by hiring a Jewish president friendly to the Israeli cause, as this would be the ultimate hypocrisy. I suspect they want that money back on the table however, and while it would be nice if they could send bills to a couple of posters in this thread, they cannot.
I have mixed feeling about”jewish money” concept
If anything those university received massive donations from arab countries far more rich and wealthy than any jewish donators . They implanted many antibjewish antiisrael program in the past 10 years leading to the situation we are now in those schools.
in any case she had to go. She was there for DEI reasons and certainly not because of her skills . Plagiarism and tiny numbers of publications don’t deserve you this 900000$ yearly salary
 

EagerBeaver

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I have mixed feeling about”jewish money” concept
If anything those university received massive donations from arab countries far more rich and wealthy than any jewish donators .
The UPenn President was asked to resign because of the loss of substantial money from donors, most of whom are Jewish. She previously had some other controversies, but this was her last straw. While the Ivy League schools may have large donations from wealthy Arabs (something I am not aware of), they haven't managed to piss off any of them into cutting off the gravy train. I think you may be judging donorship by the standards of Canadian universities, which are probably attracting a different type of foreign student, based on the vast differences between the costs of education at Canadian universities vs. private American colleges. The cost of tuition at Harvard for this school year was well over $54,000 (just tuition):
I would suggest that except for the exceptionally wealthy foreign family, the cost of a Canadian college education at a place like McGill is a whole lot more reasonable. In fact, for the foreign student, it's half the cost of Harvard:
So you need to be twice as rich to attend Harvard, meaning sick rich rather than regular rich.

The extremely wealthy Ivy League donors who pulled the plug on their charity all know that you need to hit them in the wallet, and hit them VERY hard. When you do that, they take notice. This is the way it always goes with all private schools. You just can't be biting the hand(s) that are feeding you. Dogs who do that get put down.
 
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Obvio-0bvio

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It is common knowledge that the relationship between Israel and Hezbollah has been gradually thawing, with Hezbollah cautiously testing the waters in their interactions with Israel ever since Israel entered into conflict with Hamas.

Recently, Hezbollah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, issued a stern warning on Wednesday, declaring that if Israel were to wage war on Lebanon, the retaliation from Hezbollah would be "unlimited" in its magnitude.

Nasrallah also emphasized that the killing of Arouri would not go unpunished, underscoring the determination behind his words.

This raises the question of whether Israel will find itself embroiled in multiple conflicts, involving both Hezbollah and Hamas, and potentially even Iran.
 

poupsy

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It is common knowledge that the relationship between Israel and Hezbollah has been gradually thawing, with Hezbollah cautiously testing the waters in their interactions with Israel ever since Israel entered into conflict with Hamas.

Recently, Hezbollah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, issued a stern warning on Wednesday, declaring that if Israel were to wage war on Lebanon, the retaliation from Hezbollah would be "unlimited" in its magnitude.

Nasrallah also emphasized that the killing of Arouri would not go unpunished, underscoring the determination behind his words.

This raises the question of whether Israel will find itself embroiled in multiple conflicts, involving both Hezbollah and Hamas, and potentially even Iran.
It looks like they are already at war with hezbollah since oct 8 they’ve been launching artillery. Israel had to evacuate northern residents and many Israeli soldiers and civilians were hurt or killed.
I don’t know of any country who would tolerate that and It seems like hezbollah war is inevitable now
 
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poupsy

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PLEASE READ THIS


Roy Yanovski: 100 days of reserve service officially ended yesterday. Some initial insights:


1. Gaza is seen as a backward area, the "most densely populated in the world" which has been under Israeli "siege" for years. There is no bigger lie than this. Gaza is a modern, beautiful and developed city - with large and well-equipped houses, wide boulevards, public spaces, a promenade by the sea and parks. Looks much better than any other Arab city from the Jordan to the sea, much more similar to Tel Aviv than Kfar Qasim or Umm Al Fahem. And of course it is very far from being "the densest in the world".





2. If it's a siege, let me live in a siege - the houses are bursting with goods and food from all the countries of the Middle East, the latest furniture, advanced electrical equipment and what not. There are also luxury estates that would not embarrass Savion and Kfar Shmariahu. There is absolutely no shortage of wealth in Gaza. In general, most of the houses I've been in were much bigger than the apartment I live in in Tel Aviv. The sentence "If only they had a chance for a good life, they wouldn't fight in Israel" is simply not relevant to Gaza.





3. The most common thing in the homes of the Gaza Strip: the map of Israel - under the heading "Map of Palestine". There is no mention of Israel or Israeli settlements in general.


And it is found in almost every home, in every school and in every public institution, the goal of erasing the State of Israel is neither hidden nor restrained, it is almost everywhere. The historical distortion of this map, which is taught from the age of 0 (mandatory borders of territories that were never all designated for an Arab state) is a topic for another discussion that only emphasizes the distorted perception of reality by the residents of Gaza.





4. In all the neighborhoods we were in, there are ready-made Hamas combat compounds - weapons, tunnels, charges, launching compounds, all inside residential houses, some of which are also prepared with openings in the walls for passing between buildings and what not. The residents of the Gaza Strip who live in the combat zones know this, they have received countless notices to evacuate. Long before the IDF entered. The Israel Defense Forces' announcements are still there everywhere. Those who decided to stay in the fighting areas are either Hamas members in various positions or people who consciously decided to stay in the areas used by Hamas for fighting, their consideration is with them.





5. Hamas members rarely go around armed. They are neither stupid nor suckers. They know they won't be shot if they go in "civilian" guise. They prepare the IDF ahead of time at the entrances to the buildings and arm themselves just a moment before they attack. That is why the fighting is much more complex than any other arena and anyone who tries to judge from the outside why soldiers shot X or didn't shoot Y should go into Gaza for a week or two and come back with insights.





6. The circle that enables the activity of Hamas is much larger than its tens of thousands of terrorists. The ideology of Hamas is found in almost every home, in pictures, in propaganda materials. Hamas in Gaza is like Messi in Argentina.





7. The strengthening of Hamas at this level requires the active assistance of the population. There is no way that the residents of the compounds where we located rockets and weapons did not know that the place is used as a launching compound where they try to massacre Israelis every day. And I find it hard to believe that the parents in the kindergarten where there was a tunnel shaft in one of which we were in do not know this. Who chooses to send their children to a kindergarten that serves as a terrorist infrastructure?





8. Hamas's strongest weapon is lies and propaganda. It's his fuel. This is how you will maintain the "siege" lie for years, this is how they are doing now with the photos of the innocent victims and the killing of the "journalists" who turn out to be terrorist operatives.
 
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nothinghere

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5. Hamas members rarely go around armed. They are neither stupid nor suckers. They know they won't be shot if they go in "civilian" guise. They prepare the IDF ahead of time at the entrances to the buildings and arm themselves just a moment before they attack. That is why the fighting is much more complex than any other arena and anyone who tries to judge from the outside why soldiers shot X or didn't shoot Y should go into Gaza for a week or two and come back with insights.
Yea Insane footage "Released" Today
No way to verify Context or timing.
This is like Terminator type stuff.

Footage shows Israeli drone targeting civilians in Gaza

Regardless if authentic or not, this type of video from Gaza could inflame riots worldwide.
Maybe kinda like Rodney King riots?
I guess more Demonstrations coming...maybe more aggressive?

This looks like the same crap seen years ago in Iraq but forgotten.
Absolutely Psychopathic conversations of the gunners.

WikiLeaks video 'shows US attack'

Below is a simple animation of a land clearing sweep.

Animated: Nowhere to run for Palestinians in Gaza

Presently Gaza population pushed down to Rafah. Endgame is on.

Israel will enter Rafah even if entire world turns ...The Times of Israel
 
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CaptRenault

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Hamas is a brutal, violent, barbarous terrorist group with a medieval religious mindset. They have had wide support in Gaza for years and they still do.

I fully support Israel's war against Hamas and I do not presume to give the Israeli military advice on how they should prosecute the war. All of the terrible consequences of the war are the fault of Hamas and the civilian population that supports it.

Here is a brief video reminder from October 7 of why Israel had no choice but to go to war with Hamas. I will back Israel until it decides to end the war on terms that it can live with.



Harrowing video released Wednesday shows the moment five female Israeli soldiers — covered in blood and surrounded by the bodies of their massacred comrades — were threatened with rape then taken away to Gaza by Hamas terrorists on Oct. 7.

Bodycam footage from the Hamas gunmen shows the moment the young women, operating at the Nahal Oz base outside the Gaza Strip, were handcuffed and pressed against a wall while still in pajamas.

In the sickening video, the terrorists could be heard gloating and announcing their apparent plans to sexually assault the soldiers.

“Here are the girls who can get pregnant,” one of the gunmen said.

“You’re so beautiful.”

The Hostages and Missing Families Forum, which released the video, said the harrowing tape shows the horrifying reality of the five hostages still in the clutches of the terror group in Gaza. They were identified as Liri Albag, Karina Ariev, Agam Berger, Daniella Gilboa and Naama Levy.

Berger’s father, Shlomi, told The Post that he couldn’t imagine what it felt like for his 19-year-old daughter to face those threats while surrounded by dozens of armed men.

“This is a wakeup call to the world: look what we’re dealing with,” Shlomi said. “You saw how many terrorists were in that video...
 
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