How Can an Escort Tell your Ethnicity?

[LeDodo]

I've been asked about my ethnicity a few times, but it was more out of curiosity than exclusion. If your name is Michael and you don't speak with an accent, then you could be white/black/latino/Asian until you produce a photo ID or show up at the door.

Same for me. I have an extremely common first name and if you just ear me on the phone with my native French (or English with French accent ) you can't tell I'm a visible minority.
However after COVID somehow when I began to work here I've always been asked about where my perfect level of French comes from ... Well because I'm French ...
Maybe it's more common or understandable that a visible minority person speaks French québécois whereas ones who speaks France French is weird?
Maybe lot of unconscious bias going here ...

As a non-white person, race-restrictions bother me at a personal level. I find it absurd that I could be excluded in spite of respecting all the meeting etiquettes of a provider but a white client can pass the filter simply by being white, even though he might not be a gentleman. I'm curious to know how often is it that a black or brown person would write a decent intro by text/email, pay the security deposit, then show up at the door and start haggling and abusing the woman. You would think that a lowballer would be abusive from the first contact!

Well truth is there are bad persons whatever the ethnicity. Such screening methods will reject potential good clients but there is no perfect way of doing it efficiently.

 

[EagerBeaver]

However after COVID somehow when I began to work here I've always been asked about where my perfect level of French comes from ... Well because I'm French ...
Maybe it's more common or understandable that a visible minority person speaks French québécois whereas ones who speaks France French is weird?
Maybe lot of unconscious bias going here

Your post reminds me that in the past I came across some agency SPs who were openly advertised as seeing French speaking clients ONLY. As a unilingual Anglophone white American, I was curious about this exclusion, although not terribly offended by it. The agency told me that the SP in question wasn't comfortable communicating about levels of intimacy and doing negotiations in other than her native tongue, French. What I took this to mean was she didn't want to haggle over how much extra for a BBBJ as opposed to CBJ or some other service in English. I respected this because I didn't want there to be any miscommunication. Although on one level I was saddened by the exclusion based on my French sucking monkey balls (or being nonexistent, except for an ability to read menus in French).

My recollection is I did ask one such agency if I could bring in the super-bilingual Doc Holliday as an interpreter and translator at the very beginning of the session to do the necessary translations and negotiations. They said it was not going to work. I was prepared to tip Holliday as well as the girl if this proposition was accepted, but it wasn't. So I got excluded, even though I am a white guy and even though money would have been paid to make the perceived problem go away.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

As a non-white person, race-restrictions bother me at a personal level. I find it absurd that I could be excluded in spite of respecting all the meeting etiquettes of a provider but a white client can pass the filter simply by being white, even though he might not be a gentleman. I'm curious to know how often is it that a black or brown person would write a decent intro by text/email, pay the security deposit, then show up at the door and start haggling and abusing the woman. You would think that a lowballer would be abusive from the first contact!

Agreed. There is no reason to discriminate and I feel like threads like this embolden people to repeat racial stereotypes on the behalf of escorts who aren't even present, and to say stuff like "these women don't respect their bodies anyways" lol so many of us are rolling out eyes.

I usually take provider's side and I think consent is absolutely important but I'll repeat it.. I've noticed no connection between clients race and their behavior or how well endowed they were. I've had awful white clients who lowballed and pushed boundaries and who had really large dicks and bad hygiene. Are these escorts refusing white men too?

I refuse clients who act disrespectful, meaning if they are rude during the booking process, are asking to cross a boundary, lowball, avoid bare minimum screening etc. The client's ethnicity is the last thing on my mind, disrespectful behavior can happen no matter what.. a lot of these stereotypes are rooted in confirmation bias.

However escorts who have those requirements are going to do what they're going to do.. and in my humble opinion it's better as a client to choose seeing someone who is comfortable with who you are and doesn't have these beliefs. It's the same thing on my side.. if a client has a negative preconceived notion about me but decides to book anyways, we aren't going to have a good time.

Also an escort choosing to only see clients who speak her language is much different if she can't speak English.. I don't want to see clients who I can't have a conversation with personally.

 

[Anwar]

Agreed. There is no reason to discriminate and I feel like threads like this embolden people to repeat racial stereotypes on the behalf of escorts who aren't even present, and to say stuff like "these women don't respect their bodies anyways" lol so many of us are rolling out eyes.

I agree, but these threads are also a good opportunity to have well-intentioned discussions about race issues. In spite of all the connectvity nowadays, prejudices seem to multiply faster than mutual understanding. As long as we're engaging each other with an open mind, talking about this inflammatory topic helps to clear the air. Providers can speak up more about how or why they exclude certain racial groups, and the affected groups can also present their version of the story. A racialized person is not a walking microphone for their whole ethnic group, neither should providers be expected to take risks with their safety. It's for this exact reason that safeguards such as meaningful introduction by text / email - booking deposit - reference from another provider or photo ID are instituted.

I fully understand if a visible minority refuses to see clients from their own social group for privacy reasons because social circle tends to be small for minorities. What I find hurtful is the presumption that the aforementioned safeguards work on white people but flounder on black and brown - as if there's an inherent obnoxiousness in these groups!

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I agree, but these threads are also a good opportunity to have well-intentioned discussions about race issues. In spite of all the connectvity nowadays, prejudices seem to multiply faster than mutual understanding. As long as we're engaging each other with an open mind, talking about this inflammatory topic helps to clear the air. Providers can speak up more about how or why they exclude certain racial groups, and the affected groups can also present their version of the story. A racialized person is not a walking microphone for their whole ethnic group, neither should providers be expected to take risks with their safety. It's for this exact reason that safeguards such as meaningful introduction by text / email - booking deposit - reference from another provider or photo ID are instituted.

I fully understand if a visible minority refuses to see clients from their own social group for privacy reasons because social circle tends to be small for minorities. What I find hurtful is the presumption that the aforementioned safeguards work on white people but flounder on black and brown - as if there's an inherent obnoxiousness in these groups!

This subject comes up very very often on this forum and very few providers actually want to participate so what we mostly hear is "I've heard this SP say those are the reasons why she won't see black and brown men". Having witnessed these conversations very often.. I can assure you that these discussions don't always sound well intentioned. OP is upset that some providers have a race related restriction but then says "we don't respect our own bodies anyways". How respectful is that? I don't want to see a client who thinks I don't respect myself and who holds negative feelings about providers, regardless of race..

I've also had clients lie to me about their ethnicity before and usually there's been an ulterior motive behind it. Also I've said this before, really often white clients think they will reassure us and therefore avoid screening by saying things like "hey I'm fit, white and 45 years old" meanwhile I never asked if he's fit or white but the guy won't even say his name.

I agree with you 100 percent women of a certain background have good reasons to avoid men of their own background for the reason you mentioned, but I don't feel like this is what we're talking about here

 

[LeDodo]

Your post reminds me that in the past I came across some agency SPs who were openly advertised as seeing French speaking clients ONLY. As a unilingual Anglophone white American, I was curious about this exclusion, although not terribly offended by it. The agency told me that the SP in question wasn't comfortable communicating about levels of intimacy and doing negotiations in other than her native tongue, French. What I took this to mean was she didn't want to haggle over how much extra for a BBBJ as opposed to CBJ or some other service in English. I respected this because I didn't want there to be any miscommunication. Although on one level I was saddened by the exclusion based on my French sucking monkey balls (or being nonexistent, except for an ability to read menus in French).

Yes it sucks to be filtered based on language requirement but it's for the best I think to avoid any miscommunication.

My recollection is I did ask one such agency if I could bring in the super-bilingual Doc Holliday as an interpreter and translator at the very beginning of the session to do the necessary translations and negotiations. They said it was not going to work. I was prepared to tip Holliday as well as the girl if this proposition was accepted, but it wasn't. So I got excluded, even though I am a white guy and even though money would have been paid to make the perceived problem go away.

Next time you could bring @Doc Holliday and pretend he is a cuckold and do the translation hahah

 

[EagerBeaver]

Next time you could bring @Doc Holliday and pretend he is a cuckold and do the translation hahah

I am pretty sure he would have gone along with this as he is a jokester with a sense of humor, and in the distant past he did function well as an unofficial French/English interpreter in social settings. Plus he would have been allowed to meet the SP in exchange for providing these interpreter services. But the agency said NO!

 

[EagerBeaver]

Yes it sucks to be filtered based on language requirement but it's for the best I think to avoid any miscommunication.

I agree, but it still sucks, especially since I proposed to the agency a viable solution to the problem, which they rejected. It would have been better than cellphone translation and all parties would be paid for the inconvenience. Plus I was prepared to book a half hour longer for the necessary translations to be done. Still got rejected.

 

[observer29]

Agreed. There is no reason to discriminate and I feel like threads like this embolden people to repeat racial stereotypes on the behalf of escorts who aren't even present, and to say stuff like "these women don't respect their bodies anyways" lol so many of us are rolling out eyes.

I usually take provider's side and I think consent is absolutely important but I'll repeat it.. I've noticed no connection between clients race and their behavior or how well endowed they were. I've had awful white clients who lowballed and pushed boundaries and who had really large dicks and bad hygiene. Are these escorts refusing white men too?

I refuse clients who act disrespectful, meaning if they are rude during the booking process, are asking to cross a boundary, lowball, avoid bare minimum screening etc. The client's ethnicity is the last thing on my mind, disrespectful behavior can happen no matter what.. a lot of these stereotypes are rooted in confirmation bias.

However escorts who have those requirements are going to do what they're going to do.. and in my humble opinion it's better as a client to choose seeing someone who is comfortable with who you are and doesn't have these beliefs. It's the same thing on my side.. if a client has a negative preconceived notion about me but decides to book anyways, we aren't going to have a good time.

Also an escort choosing to only see clients who speak her language is much different if she can't speak English.. I don't want to see clients who I can't have a conversation with personally.

Im not disagreeing with you here, but most escorts cant ban white clientele since they are the majority.

Im not excusing racism or anything, but I imagine most providers have a bad experience with a black/brown client, then just do a blanket ban instead of dealing with it further because they dont really need to keep seeing them to make their money.

If a provider were to ban white clients in Montreal, I'd imagine that 70% of their clientele would instantly disappear.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Im not disagreeing with you here, but most escorts cant ban white clientele since they are the majority.

Im not excusing racism or anything, but I imagine most providers have a bad experience with a black/brown client, then just do a blanket ban instead of dealing with it further because they dont really need to keep seeing them to make their money.

If a provider were to ban white clients in Montreal, I'd imagine that 70% of their clientele would instantly disappear.

I never said escorts should or could ban white clients. I would not ban white clients any more than I would clients of other races?? I'm just saying that banning clients based on this criteria even if they are acting appropriately is discriminatory. And honestly depending on the person, it's not necessarily true that 70% of the clients would disappear.. Some escorts mostly have black and brown clients.. I'd say for me it's 50-60% white clients.. It really depends, too. I feel like you don't really understand the point I'm making.. My point is that actually the reasons why certain women say they are banning clients who are black and brown could also apply to white clients as well. They are just bad client behaviors that clients of any race could have.

If someone is a good client it doesn't matter what race he is. There are other reasons to refuse clients that are much more obvious to me.

 

[terrybogard88]

I never said escorts should or could ban white clients. I would not ban white clients any more than I would clients of other races?? I'm just saying that banning clients based on this criteria even if they are acting appropriately is discriminatory. And honestly depending on the person, it's not necessarily true that 70% of the clients would disappear.. Some escorts mostly have black and brown clients.. I'd say for me it's 50-60% white clients.. It really depends, too. I feel like you don't really understand the point I'm making.. My point is that actually the reasons why certain women say they are banning clients who are black and brown could also apply to white clients as well. They are just bad client behaviors that clients of any race could have.

If someone is a good client it doesn't matter what race he is. There are other reasons to refuse clients that are much more obvious to me.

You are so sweet

 

[observer29]

I never said escorts should or could ban white clients. I would not ban white clients any more than I would clients of other races?? I'm just saying that banning clients based on this criteria even if they are acting appropriately is discriminatory. And honestly depending on the person, it's not necessarily true that 70% of the clients would disappear.. Some escorts mostly have black and brown clients.. I'd say for me it's 50-60% white clients.. It really depends, too. I feel like you don't really understand the point I'm making.. My point is that actually the reasons why certain women say they are banning clients who are black and brown could also apply to white clients as well. They are just bad client behaviors that clients of any race could have.

If someone is a good client it doesn't matter what race he is. There are other reasons to refuse clients that are much more obvious to me.

My point was that providers couldnt cut off white clients because they are the majority in Montreal, and they would lose the bulk of their business. Vs with black or brown people, they might be able to get away with it and see no loss.

Montreal is a majority white city, it would make sense that the majority of clients were white. That doesnt even take into consideration how expensive this hobby is, and that further skews who could be a potential client.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

My point was that providers couldnt cut off white clients because they are the majority in Montreal, and they would lose the bulk of their business. Vs with black or brown people, they might be able to get away with it and see no loss.

Montreal is a majority white city, it would make sense that the majority of clients were white. That doesnt even take into consideration how expensive this hobby is, and that further skews who could be a potential client.

You're still not getting my point .... And it's very easy to understand. It doesn't make sense to discriminate against one type of client if everyone has the potential to act the same. That is my point.

What you're saying is also not true because for instance at one massage parlor I worked at in a certain neighborhood, a large number of clients weren't white.

You're also forgetting that a lot of people who see escorts in Montreal are not even from here. They come from the suburbs, from the US and other provinces. That is a very well known fact.

You're also assuming that everyone who sees providers can afford to treat this as a "hobby' and does this often with several different providers, when actually most clients just see one or two providers or just sees one person once in a while.

 

[overfiend]

From my convos with some SP's:

Black: usually because it's so big it hurts them, and they are a bit tougher

Indians: the ones with a heavy accent and curry smell. They tend to start a negotiation to have the maximum amount of services possible.

You can talk about racism all you want, but when girls see a trend, they have the right to refuse.
I love it when ads of any SP writes exactly what they offer and what to expect

But not all Black are heavily endowered and not all Indians love to Nego or smell like curry...that is kind of stereotypical and racist....coming back to my point "you can blanket " an ethnicity or race because some have such attributes and mannerisms

 

[overfiend]

From a Legal Perspective

She can choose her clients, her working conditions, and her rates.
Yes, she may refuse any client for any personal reason — including ethnic origin, age, gender, weight, etc. — without it being considered illegal discrimination, since the service is based on her personal consent within a private context.

However, if she refuses a client on an ethnic or racial basis while working for an agency, this could be considered illegal discrimination, because the agency offers a public service. Both the federal and provincial Human Rights Charters apply to businesses.

From an Ethical Perspective

The issue involves a tension between the principle of individual consent and the principle of equality and non-discrimination.

It is therefore legitimate for a sex worker to exercise full control over her own body.
However, a refusal based solely on a client’s ethnic origin, without any connection to her comfort or personal experience, remains ethically questionable, as it risks reinforcing discrimination and prejudice.

My point exactly...she works for an Agency and Euphoria even states it in plain view . If she was indie...well i would not mind. Look not saying that humans are perfect and we are not racist and so forth.....but in todays world where we promote multiculturism and diversity...for whatever purpose possible in a landscape that has changed and changing , especially when ethnocentrism is dying slowly...well supposedly, i am not saying we should all chant "kumbaya" and hack everything down as if we are all one people now under the same banner. But at least it is wrong to write it so evident and in plain view. Where is their hypocrisy on this ...where is their talent at masking it? Where are these women's work ethics so to speak , because i am sure they love equality and hate being singled out by any kind of discriminions themselves, yet they afford such to others. Yup sure you hate some color or ethnicity...but cant they keep that disguised or on the low.

 

[overfiend]

I don't understand the legal context either. Hypothetical situation #1: an escort shows up at a client's hotel room. Upon the client opening the door, the escort observes that he is an Indian client, a group she doesn't service. She informs the client, bluntly, "sorry, but I do not service Indian clients." She then walks out, leaving the client holding his boner.

Can he sue for illegal discrimination? Of course not, because he was engaged in an illegal activity. There is no discrimination. Under the law, the transaction is "void ab initio"- void from inception due to illegality. Therefore, no illegal discrimination could occur. At most it was non--actionable prejudice against an ethnicity.

Hypothetical situation #2: an escort shows up at client's hotel room. She has advertised to the client her rate is $300 per hour. The client hands the escort $300. She says to the client, "thank you. I just need to go downstairs and pay the driver." She doesn't come back.

Let's assume the client knows the escort's full name and address. Can he bring a small claims lawsuit against her, for breach of contract?

Answer: No. This lawsuit would be dismissed by any Judge in any court of competent jurisdiction in the USA or Canada. Anyone who has studied law and taken a course in contracts knows that the consideration for a contract cannot be meretricious or for services not allowed under the law. There is no contract and the $300 may not be returned, nor the contract enforced, on a breach of contract theory.

Can the client pursue a misdemeanor theft charge with the police?

On these same facts in the USA, under no circumstances as you would be admitting to a misdemeanor in order to pursue a misdemeanor charge which, in all likelihood, would not be charged. More likely is that the client would be charged if he foolishly pursued this with the police.

On these same facts in Montreal, I suspect the same analysis would apply.

So bringing up laws and legal rights is all bullshit because none of it is enforceable in Court. If it's not enforceable in Court it's not only bullshit, but bullshit in its purest and most unadulterated form. It's Super Bullshit.

By the way, I have an actual law degree and I have passed the bar in 3 US jurisdictions. You would be surprised that questions like the ones I posted above make their way onto law school exams (contracts and criminal law) and in some form on bar exams as well. Law school professors try to trick you into allowing yourself to think like a civilian instead of a lawyer. That's what separates the lawyers from the civilians in the tested group.

Sheehan v. Samuelson (2023 NSSM 27) might beg to differ even if was reversed but i feel something will come up anyday where clients could take any escort to court for some kind of scenario

 

[EagerBeaver]

Sheehan v. Samuelson (2023 NSSM 27) might beg to differ even if was reversed but i feel something will come up anyday where clients could take any escort to court for some kind of scenario

Not in any jurisdiction where soliciting prostitution is illegal.