Income Taxes

[EagerBeaver]

Ykman,

Further to my post above look at the screenshot of a proposed Priceline hotel booking. I have no intent to travel to Plattsburgh so this is "make believe mock booking" FYI.$26.27 in "taxes and fees":

 

[ykman]

Conclusion there could be a problem with Priceline transparency.

But as far Chinatown Holiday Inn is concerned they did not pull a Mexico style shakedown on you . When I used to travel to Quebec City, my assistant did the booking with the hotel or with the travel agency my employer dealt with.

 

[EagerBeaver]

But as far Chinatown Holiday Inn is concerned they did not pull a Mexico style shakedown on you .

We don't know that for sure. If as you say the hotel tax existed the last 20 years in Montreal, then my conclusion is that Priceline collected and paid the taxes on all the other Montreal hotels that I booked that NEVER asked me to pay occupancy/hospitality/municipal/hotel tax. This is common sense.

Conclusion: Priceline collected and paid the tax, and Holiday Inn Chinatown double dipped on MY SALSA. Double dipping is not allowed. The Clerk accused Priceline of not collecting that tax but no other hotel made me pay it in dozens and dozens of Montreal hotel bookings 2002-2017. All on Priceline.

I don't disagree that Priceline isn't being transparent, but one would think I would have been asked by 99 other hotels to pay the tax if Priceline did not collect and remit it. Holiday Inn probably knew I couldn't prove that PL paid the tax, so it was a Mexican style "gotcha." And their tortilla was thrust into my salsa for some good ole double dipping. Which is also theft, however. A felonious taking of my money by way of double taxation on something I had already paid. When they paid the City of Montreal, they probably got a refund back due to the double payment. That refund didn't come back to me.

 

[ykman]

Cloud500 wrote I believe referring to me saying: ''You do not know what theft means''.


I tried to paraphrase in my earlier post the relevant provision of the Criminal code which actually reads as follows:

322 (1) Every one commits theft who fraudulently and without colour of right takes, or fraudulently and without colour of right converts to his use or to the use of another person, anything, whether animate or inanimate, with intent

(a) to deprive, temporarily or absolutely, the owner of it, or a person who has a special property or interest in it, of the thing or of his property or interest in it;

(b) to pledge it or deposit it as security;

(c) to part with it under a condition with respect to its return that the person who parts with it may be unable to perform; or

(d) to deal with it in such a manner that it cannot be restored in the condition in which it was taken or converted.

Robbers essentially a have no colour of right and Governments do , that is why we call them Governments and robbers robbers.

Would a Fair Tax be fair theft by robbers if imposed on an unwilling citizen according to Cloud 500 ?

Cloud 500 cannot say that taxes are theft and be against them and advocate for a Fair Tax Act scheme. According to his logic the only'' taxes'' that are not thefts are optional ''taxes'' that citizens would only pay on their own free accord.

In my youth Jean Drapeau invented or at least tried the concept with his ''taxe volontaire'',

 

[ykman]

We don't know that for sure. If as you say the hotel tax existed the last 20 years in Montreal, then my conclusion is that Priceline collected and paid the taxes on all the other Montreal hotels that I booked that NEVER asked me to pay occupancy/hospitality/municipal/hotel tax. This is common sense.

Conclusion: Priceline collected and paid the tax, and Holiday Inn Chinatown double dipped on MY SALSA. Double dipping is not allowed. The Clerk accused Priceline of not collecting that tax but no other hotel made me pay it in dozens and dozens of Montreal hotel bookings 2002-2017. All on Priceline.

I don't disagree that Priceline isn't being transparent, but one would think I would have been asked by 99 other hotels to pay the tax if Priceline did not collect and remit it. Holiday Inn probably knew I couldn't prove that PL paid the tax, so it was a Mexican style "gotcha." And their tortilla was thrust into my salsa for some good ole double dipping. Which is also theft, however. A felonious taking of my money by way of double taxation on something I had already paid. When they paid the City of Montreal, they probably got a refund back due to the double payment. That refund didn't come back to me.

That is the way you look at it you seem to have a predisposition to believe that Canadian Holiday Inn is crooked but not American priceline and that the City of Montreal would refund Holiday Inn or even that it realised there was this suspected double taxation if there ever was.

You have no evidence whatsoever that in THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE Priceline had charged you the tax and remitted it to the City. They could have provided you after your return with the detailed calculation including each and every tax to the last US cent charged . When you phoned Priceline they did not tell you that they had collected from you such tax and remitted it to the City or whatever government was levying it.On the contrary they made it sound as if they did NOT collect or remit this hotel tax. If Priceline did not remit the said tax nobody could prove that they had.

Now you get on a tizzy by assuming that they did charge you the tax and remitted it but did not tell you and could not prove that they had paid it ...and that the real villain is not Priceline but Holiday Inn who is aware of all of Priceline foibles.

Would you like to be in the cast of the sequel to the movie South Park bigger longer and uncut and get to sing Blame Canada?

 

[EagerBeaver]

You are not getting it! I had like 100 Priceline bookings on Montreal hotels and the only time everything wasn't prepaid (except parking and room service) was with the Holiday Inn. Taxes are always prepaid on a Priceline booking as is shown by my earlier post. It was objectively suspicious and I don't appreciate you saying it isn't suspicious at all. That evidence points to something fishy. When I called Priceline they pointed to some disclaimer, I talked to a know nothing customer service rep who said taxes are collected and remitted (as is mentioned in your Wiki link) but read the fine print on some local taxes. If Priceline wasn't collecting and remitting on my other hotel stays, then why didn't the other hotels charge me a hotel tax? Can you answer that? It was only the Holiday Inn in Chinatown and they only did it once. I stayed there on other occasions and was not asked to pay the tax. I think the stay in 2004 may have been my last.

It was one time in 2004 so I don't get what you don't get about me having numerous stays in Montreal and never having this issue on any other occasion. I posted about it on MERB in 2004 when it happened in the hotel thread. I am long over it but I got no good explanation at the time and my interactions with the staff at the hotel on this issue weren't to my satisfaction. I felt like I got ripped off. My only blame was leveled at the staff of that particular hotel so have no idea what you are getting at with the rest of the nonsense in your post. There is no America vs Canada in this issue so stop that nonsense please. It was an Issue with one hotel and that hotel just so happened to be in Canada.

 

[Fradi]

All this over $40 wtf. and over 20 years ago.

I stopped counting how many times I have been screwed or scammed out of money a long time ago.
The governments in Quebec however do this consistently and legally and it doesn’t matter which one is in power, all three federal, provincial, and municipal have both hands in your pockets constantly and without the slightest feeling of guilt.

 

[EagerBeaver]

All this over $40 wtf. and over 20 years ago.

I stopped counting how many times I have been screwed or scammed out of money a long time ago.
The governments in Quebec however do this consistently and legally and it doesn’t matter which one is in power, all three federal, provincial, and municipal have both hands in your pockets constantly and without the slightest feeling of guilt.

You have to fight back on occasion. There were big political fights in Connecticut over a gasoline tax. What sickens me is the State of Connecticut has a deal with the two huge casinos (Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods), both on federally recognized Native American tribal lands, whereby the State of CT gets 25% of the slots revenue and in exchange those casinos get to be sovereign entities with their own laws. You set foot on those lands, which are within the State, and you leave the State. With all that revenue from gambling, the State is still coming up with new taxes to levy and our infrastructure especially the bridges are all shit and ready to fall down, despite all this revenue. As citizens you sometimes have to rise up and say no. If not the penis goes deeper and deeper into your ass and eventually it will be in your throat with shit on it.

When Covid hit in 2020 those casinos closed for all of 2 months (April and May) and reopened in June. The Governor of CT was pissed but didn't have the power to shut them down as he did shut down many other businesses.

 

[ykman]

You are not getting it! I had like 100 Priceline bookings on Montreal hotels and the only time everything wasn't prepaid (except parking and room service) was with the Holiday Inn. Taxes are always prepaid on a Priceline booking as is shown by my earlier post. It was objectively suspicious and I don't appreciate you saying it isn't suspicious at all. That evidence points to something fishy. When I called Priceline they pointed to some disclaimer, I talked to a know nothing customer service rep who said taxes are collected and remitted (as is mentioned in your Wiki link) but read the fine print on some local taxes. If Priceline wasn't collecting and remitting on my other hotel stays, then why didn't the other hotels charge me a hotel tax? Can you answer that? It was only the Holiday Inn in Chinatown and they only did it once. I stayed there on other occasions and was not asked to pay the tax. I think the stay in 2004 may have been my last.

It was one time in 2004 so I don't get what you don't get about me having numerous stays in Montreal and never having this issue on any other occasion. I posted about it on MERB in 2004 when it happened in the hotel thread. I am long over it but I got no good explanation at the time and my interactions with the staff at the hotel on this issue weren't to my satisfaction. I felt like I got ripped off. My only blame was leveled at the staff of that particular hotel so have no idea what you are getting at with the rest of the nonsense in your post. There is no America vs Canada in this issue so stop that nonsense please. It was an Issue with one hotel and that hotel just so happened to be in Canada.

I DO NOT have to answer anything. I am not Priceline, not Holiday Inn not in the hotel business You initially made it sound as if Holiday Inn invented a phony tax you had never heard of . I showed you that such taxes do exist in USA.The rest is none of my business .Happy New Year.

 

[Fradi]

You have to fight back on occasion. There were big political fights in Connecticut over a gasoline tax. What sickens me is the State of Connecticut has a deal with the two huge casinos (Mohegan Sun and Foxwoods), both on federally recognized Native American tribal lands, whereby the State of CT gets 25% of the slots revenue and in exchange those casinos get to be sovereign entities with their own laws. You set foot on those lands, which are within the State, and you leave the State. With all that revenue from gambling, the State is still coming up with new taxes to levy and our infrastructure especially the bridges are all shit and ready to fall down, despite all this revenue. As citizens you sometimes have to rise up and say no. If not the penis goes deeper and deeper into your ass and eventually it will be in your throat with shit on it.

When Covid hit in 2020 those casinos closed for all of 2 months (April and May) and reopened in June. The Governor of CT was pissed but didn't have the power to shut them down as he did shut down many other businesses.

How does going a bit nuts with a 20year old $40 hotel tax figure in fighting back against the State of Connecticut.and their agreements with Native American owned casinos.
You are not making too much sense EB. Are you still celebrating the New Year?
You are however correct that citizens are getting fucked deeper and deeper each year by our voted in politicians no matter which government is in power.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Is there any wonder why this government needs to keep on raising taxes? Their spending is out of control. Spending $6,000 per night on a hotel room, racking up nearly six figures on fancy airplane food and handing out bonuses to failing central bankers. Plenty of politicians & bureaucrats were on Santa's Naughty List this year:

1. Someone in the Federal government billed taxpayers $6,000 a night on a single hotel room during the Queen's funeral. The governor generals says it was not her. Trudeau will not say who it was. Must be the ghost of Xmas waste.
2. Chrystia Freeland spent $20 billion over her own budget. In April's budget, Freeland said she would spend $452 billion in 2022. But in the mid-year budget, Freeland said she would spend $472 billion. In just seven months, Freeland is on track to spend $20 billion over budget. We all spend extra during Xmas but Freeland spends all year long.
3. While Canadians are struggling due to government created inflation and tax hikes, governor general Mary Simon got an early start to the festivities when in March when her and her entourage spent nearly six figures in airplane food during their week long trip to the middle east in March. Simon proves it is always holiday season at Rideau Hall.
4. Finance Environment minister Steven Guilbeault claims 8/10 Canadians get back more then they paid in the carbon tax. The Parliamentary Budget Officer shows that is magic math. In 2022, the carbon tax cost the average household between $299 to $671 even after rebates.
5. Tis the season for giving, and Canada's central banks sure love to give. The Bank of Canada is giving Canadians sky high inflation and rising interest rates. Bank of Canada Governor Tiff Macklem also gave his failing central bankers $45 million in bonuses and raises during government created covid mandates and lockdowns. So the question is what do you have to do to miss a bonus at the Bank of Canada??
6. Saskatchewan Finance Minister Donna Harpauer spent $8,000 on a private flight from Regina to North Battleford instead of driving. If you leave Regina early, you can stop at Tim Hortons, still get to North Battleford before lunch and be home in time for supper. I guess when government just has to pick into peoples pockets with taxes, the sky is no limit on spending.

 

[ykman]

I am still waiting for Cloud 500 to explain

1) how a tax that citizens can opt out of can still be a called tax and,

2) if a tax is essentially a theft , how he can be in favour of the Fair Tax scheme proposed in the USA

Emoticons are too cryptic for me to take as his explanation(s)

 

[ykman]

Cloud 500 wrote:


Saskatchewan Finance Minister Donna Harpauer spent $8,000 on a private flight from Regina to North Battleford instead of driving. If you leave Regina early, you can stop at Tim Hortons, still get to North Battleford before lunch and be home in time for supper. I guess when government just has to pick into peoples pockets with taxes, the sky is no limit on spending.

Not that scandalous. She could have taken a commercial flight to Saskatoon and driven from there or possibly to North Battleford to save money.Who knows how convenient the flight schedule was

The trip Regina to North Battleford takes according to google maps just short of 4 hours. I did it in 2019 in the early summer when driving conditions were ideal, A stop at Tim Horton on the way means she would have to leave before 8 am ,Giving her one hour for lunch, she would have to get on her way to Regina at 2 pm to get to Regina by 6pm That is assuming she is not slowed down in traffic in Saskatoon or by work on the highway and has no stop a Tim Horton. she would have done only one or two hours of work on a 10 hour day.

Again my question which is relevant to the title and topic chosen by the initiator of this thread .

Should the Saskatchewan Government. not be financed thru Income tax but financed thru a fair tax scheme would that have stopped the minister from travelling that way.?

 

[CLOUD 500]

What a typical spurious libertarian argument. "Taxation is theft." Governments have the right to tax their citizens and businesses. If you defy the law you risk punishment. That's not extortion.

How do you figure they have the right to theft? Are they of the aristocracy or nobility? Laws are only a question of who is in power, does not mean it is right. Remember slavery was once legal, it was within the law.

The Residential School System

indigenousfoundations.arts.ubc.ca

Residential schools were once legal. Apartheid was once legal.

Punishment is what robbers do. They try to extort and threaten to do something bad to you if you do not hand them your money, that is what government does.

Like Thomas E Williams said "If one person has a right to something he did not earn, of necessity it requires that another person not have a right to something that he did earn."

"There is no moral argument that justifies using the coercive powers of government to force one person to bear the expense of taking care of another."

"No matter how worthy the cause, it is robbery, theft, and injustice to confiscate the property of one person and give it to another to whom it does not belong."

The income tax act was supposed to be a temporary measure to fund the world war but it was never removed. Since then government spending has exploded. People pay more then half their earnings in taxes so politicians can live the life of luxury.

 

[CLOUD 500]

If the governments doesn't tax citizens, you will have to build yourself roads, highways and bridges, etc.
Or private companies will build them and make profits by charging you to use them !

All those things were built before the income tax act. Up until 1913, people kept all their earnings. Interesting how the United States had roads, schools, colleges, vast railroads, and an army and navy. Btw the government is also making profits by taxing people. The only difference is no one forces you to buy products or services from private companies, only government forcibly takes your money for things you might not want or need. Government's track record is poor, look no further then Canada's healthcare system.

 

[Albacor]

And don't forget the sales taxes 15% on whatever u buy, plus gasoline tax and electricity tax, which is a nessessity ! I need to drive to work to make my living! It's a rib off !

 

[Womaniser]

All those things were built before the income tax act. Up until 1913, people kept all their earnings. Interesting how the United States had roads, schools, colleges, vast railroads, and an army and navy. Btw the government is also making profits by taxing people. The only difference is no one forces you to buy products or services from private companies, only government forcibly takes your money for things you might not want or need. Government's track record is poor, look no further then Canada's healthcare system.

There were other forms of taxes before 1917.
I wasn't alive before 1917 but highways, airports, bridges were not very common !
Search for the services that were available then.

 

[CLOUD 500]

There were other forms of taxes before 1917.
I wasn't alive before 1917 but highways, airports, bridges were not very common !
Search for the services that were available then.

Yes there were but the taxes were a fraction of what they are today. Tariffs, excise taxes, and fees were the taxes. The difference is government spending was much less then it is today. There was no sending money to foreign countries, or paying people to have kids, or welfare, etc... Also there was no Federal Reserve, all currency was based on gold, the government could not just print more bills to spend more. The government has a spending addiction and we can see the trend of government spending in the last 100 years has exploded.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

And there were no Health Care for every one, no free education, and so on.

 

[snakejack]

Yes there were but the taxes were a fraction of what they are today. Tariffs, excise taxes, and fees were the taxes. The difference is government spending was much less then it is today. There was no sending money to foreign countries, or paying people to have kids, or welfare, etc... Also there was no Federal Reserve, all currency was based on gold, the government could not just print more bills to spend more. The government has a spending addiction and we can see the trend of government spending in the last 100 years has exploded.

Trudeau Castro doubled in 9 years the national debt!

And we don’t know where the money is.

Our infrastructures are in bad shape. We don’t have enough houses and hospitals.

We had a big party but most of us didn’t enjoyed it but will have to pay for it.