Money Doesn't Make People Happy

[MakeIt]

I'm feeling chatty this afternoon and I like this subject so IMHO:

I know people well who are happy with little money and I know people with lots of money who are clearly happy. I also know the opposites.

People who are happy have a positive outlook on life and know what their values are and practice them. Nothing gets them down, at least not for long, though they often get mad at people who contravene their values. Many of you who read this will say, BS, I would invite you to ask yourself what values you have and if you believe and practive them. Those I know with money and happy have strong values which always includes giving back to the people around them, usually through charities or similar endeavors. BTW, this is not to be confused with ego-stroking such as by giving money to a school to get a building named after you (know one of those too).

People who are unhappy that I know suffer from a number of human feelings that are awful to have. Greed and jealousy are perhaps the worst and most people have them to some extent. They are also the emotions that are most driven by money. Poor people who are unhappy are often jealous of their neighbors for havng more than they do. They bitch about everything and everybody from the government to sports teams and blame them for society's ills.

What's really notable about happy vs. unhappy is that happy people usually have a positive outlook. They also have friends with similar outlooks who will help them when they need it. Unhappy people bitch all they time and have a negative outlook - nobady really wants to hang around these people except those that act like them and have similar outlook.

I've been there and as I've gotten older, what has changed is my outlook (stay positive) and my intolerence for negative people. I think many of us are transitioning from one state to the other. As a result, were sometimes happy and giving and sometimes bitchy and greedy. I tend to judge people in the sex trade from this perspective and I've met some though this hobby who have a general positive outlook. They see the sex trade as a means to get somewhere or something. Then there are those who see no meaning or goal in this profession for them. They will likely end up unhappy. I feel sorry for them but there is little I can do for them.

 

[General Gonad]

People who are unhappy that I know suffer from a number of human feelings that are awful to have. Greed and jealousy are perhaps the worst and most people have them to some extent. They are also the emotions that are most driven by money. Poor people who are unhappy are often jealous of their neighbors for havng more than they do. They bitch about everything and everybody from the government to sports teams and blame them for society's ills.

What's really notable about happy vs. unhappy is that happy people usually have a positive outlook. They also have friends with similar outlooks who will help them when they need it. Unhappy people bitch all they time and have a negative outlook - nobady really wants to hang around these people except those that act like them and have similar outlook.

Great post MakeIt, I couldn't agree more. Too many people focus on what other people have to give them self worth. It is a fruitless venture. You'll never be happy if you're always trying to compare yourself to others.

BTW, I love SPs with great attitudes but I have only met one whose attitude (and, hum, oral skills) really blew me away: Lili Love. I even told her, "you have a great outlook on life and I truly enjoyed being with you." She is exactly the type of woman you want grow old with.

>>Ronnie, I hear the same about you too darling.....


GG

 

[Carla]

Warning: depressing content

Unhappy people bitch all they time and have a negative outlook - nobady really wants to hang around these people except those that act like them and have similar outlook.

Thank you very much MakeIt. I never dreamt about a better compliment than this!

I am an officially unhappy person if you define unhappiness as spending most of one's time sad or depressed and being generally and deep inside dissatisfied with themselves and/or surroundings.

Yet, nobody has ever called me greedy. And I am not jealous about anybody's happiness, money, and other virtues. I cherish all of my moments of happiness and would not give them up for anything else. I also rarely bitch. There are certain chemical substances that make me unnaturally bitchy such as birth control pill and gravol. I try to avoid them. The DJ at Cleos with whom I work for 4 years once noticed that he has never seen me act angry. Sometimes it happens that another dancer or client will start yelling at me and I just look at them with a straight face, say sorry and walk away. I do have bad qualities also such as I'm very selfish (don't confuse this with greed), but you did not list this quality as a typical for unhappy people.

It is also true that I surround myself with unhappy people like myself because we understand each other better. Most of them are like me, not greedy, jealous or bitchy.

The last comment on your quote, when I met you last week you said you enjoyed spending time with me. As I remember correct we weren't laughing and joking around all the time but were discussing some pretty serious things.

Ok, to the rest who thinks that money doesn't make us happy why do most of us strive to make more?

If you still don't agree, why don't you take an educational trip to the welfare office on Cote St-Antoine. Look at the faces of the people waiting for their appointment or ask them if they are happy with their lives. Two of my very close friends are on welfare and go there from time to time for job placement workshops. They tell me that most of these people seem very depressed or careless.

Sorry for this very depressing post but I had to let it out,

Carla

 

[naughtylady]

The title of this thread in, "Money Doesn't Make people Happy"

This statement has been proven true in many reaserch studies. However just because that statement is true does not mean that, "Not having money makes people happy." This is simply not logical. If "A" then not "B" does not imply If not "A" then "B". Logic 101. Stop trying to disprove the statement by saying that being poor doesn't make you happy either. That is not the issue being discussed.

Why do most people constantly strive to make more? Because we live in a consumerist society where we are constantly being bombarded with the message that we need more stuff. We have bought into the idea that if only we buy such and such a product can we be happy. (Hey, you cannot be happy if your teeth are not sparkling artic white! And having clean clothes is not good enough, they have to smell right, and you wont be attractive to girls if you don't wear this body spray, and we all know that beer makes people happy (just look at the ads!)


Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[naughtylady]

The title of this thread in, "Money Doesn't Make people Happy"

This statement has been proven true in many reaserch studies. However just because that statement is true does not mean that, "Not having money makes people happy." This is simply not logical. If "A" then not "B" does not imply If not "A" then "B". Logic 101. Stop trying to disprove the statement by saying that being poor doesn't make you happy either. That is not the issue being discussed.

Why do most people constantly strive to make more? Because we live in a consumerist society where we are constantly being bombarded with the message that we need more stuff. We have bought into the idea that if only we buy such and such a product can we be happy. (Hey, you cannot be happy if your teeth are not sparkling artic white! And having clean clothes is not good enough, they have to smell right, and you wont be attractive to girls if you don't wear this body spray, and we all know that beer makes people happy (just look at the ads!)


Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[Techman]

Money by itself cannot make someone happy. It can buy you company and sex but cannot buy you friendship or love. You could have millions or billions of dollars and find yourself surrounded by people who only want a piece of it. What it can do is bring someone freedom from everyday monetary pressures leading to less stress and give you the ability to live life the way you wish to live it. But having money and knowing how to manage it is a different story. There are many examples of people who come into large sums of money, whether through winning a lottery or other means, only to have it destroy their family or their life or they end up totally blowing all of it with nothing to show for it in the end and end up worse than they were when they started.

On the other hand the lack of money can destroy a person. So in the end, I would rather be filthy rich with no true friends than penniless and homeless.
Most of us are somewhere in the middle and learn, if we're lucky, to make the best of what we have. Family and friends are the keys to happiness, not money. But it definately helps!

 

[MakeIt]

Thank you very much MakeIt. I never dreamt about a better compliment than this!

I am an officially unhappy person if you define unhappiness as spending most of one's time sad or depressed and being generally and deep inside dissatisfied with themselves and/or surroundings.

Yet, nobody has ever called me greedy. And I am not jealous about anybody's happiness, money, and other virtues. I cherish all of my moments of happiness and would not give them up for anything else. I also rarely bitch. There are certain chemical substances that make me unnaturally bitchy such as birth control pill and gravol. I try to avoid them. The DJ at Cleos with whom I work for 4 years once noticed that he has never seen me act angry. Sometimes it happens that another dancer or client will start yelling at me and I just look at them with a straight face, say sorry and walk away. I do have bad qualities also such as I'm very selfish (don't confuse this with greed), but you did not list this quality as a typical for unhappy people.

It is also true that I surround myself with unhappy people like myself because we understand each other better. Most of them are like me, not greedy, jealous or bitchy.

The last comment on your quote, when I met you last week you said you enjoyed spending time with me. As I remember correct we weren't laughing and joking around all the time but were discussing some pretty serious things.

Ok, to the rest who thinks that money doesn't make us happy why do most of us strive to make more?

If you still don't agree, why don't you take an educational trip to the welfare office on Cote St-Antoine. Look at the faces of the people waiting for their appointment or ask them if they are happy with their lives. Two of my very close friends are on welfare and go there from time to time for job placement workshops. They tell me that most of these people seem very depressed or careless.

Sorry for this very depressing post but I had to let it out,

Carla

Carla

That's not what I meant by being unhappy and you certainly don't fit this profile. Unhappiness I've seen in people who have money is a void that comes from constant anger. The anger is usually caused by greed and/or jealousy. I didn't see any anger or negativity in you when we met, nor greed or jealousy.

What I was talking about is people I know who live well and still complain about everything - and blame anyone else for their problems. You could give them a Million dollars and they would not change - they would still be unhappy, negative, complaining people because that is how they think and feel.

I do not doubt that your friends welfare would feel better if they had money - they may even be happy after. But happiness from money does not last. Real happiness comes from within ourselves and many people with money cannot figure this out.

At the same time, I have relatives who just get by and that's good enough for them - they happy with what they have and don't feel they need more. More money would not make them happier - just more comfortable. They amaze me sometimes because I know its all about their attitude.

Anyhow, I'm sorry if you thought that I was implying that you're jealous or greedy. I know that you are not and many other people who live with a certain sadness or depression are also not jealous or greedy.

Makeit

 

[Carla]

The title of this thread in, "Money Doesn't Make people Happy"

This statement has been proven true in many reaserch studies. However just because that statement is true does not mean that, "Not having money makes people happy." This is simply not logical. If "A" then not "B" does not imply If not "A" then "B". Logic 101. Stop trying to disprove the statement by saying that being poor doesn't make you happy either. That is not the issue being discussed.

Why do most people constantly strive to make more? Because we live in a consumerist society where we are constantly being bombarded with the message that we need more stuff. We have bought into the idea that if only we buy such and such a product can we be happy. (Hey, you cannot be happy if your teeth are not sparkling artic white! And having clean clothes is not good enough, they have to smell right, and you wont be attractive to girls if you don't wear this body spray, and we all know that beer makes people happy (just look at the ads!)


Ronnie,
Naughtylady

Ronnie, honestly I don't know what happens when the person becomes excessively rich. I am making a claim that if a person on welfare (my two friends) will receive 25,000/year (welfare x 4), what I earn now they would be happier. This is the only step in my life that I made, from living on about 6,000/year to 25K/year and I became drastically happier and this is long term happiness because after 4 years I'm still enjoying buying whatever food I want and my own clothes, furniture and appliances for my apartment. You call these things consumerism, I call them little bits of happiness and distractions from depression.

My definition of unhappiness (unlike MakeIt) is depression. My statement is each person is born to live in depression unless there are things other than necessities (extras) to make the person happy. Some of these things are not material such as love, friends and some forms of entertainment, all the rest of the things can be bought for money. Therefore the more money the person gets the more happiness they can buy.

Happiness = non-material things + material things (can be bought) - bad things

You are saying that by adding to material things (such as buying a house) you are also adding to bad things (such as stress). I agree. I was saying that if you could receive money without having to compromise (work) you will be happier. Of course there is a certain small percentage of irrational people that will use money to harm themselves.

Carla

 

[Joe.t]

Conclusion- the moral of the thread is that if everybody won the 6/49 today then everybody would be happier

 

[Carla]

Btger I argree with you to a certain extent. People who are born with a chemical imbalance and are more prone to sadness are less likely to become wealthy because they are not capable to produce as much work. Unless I missunderstood and you meant wealth as the whole package (material and mental).

What I say is if any person, sad or happy was given more money (not in a lump amount but such that it will last them all their life) they will become happier. A sad person can use money to buy himself more distractions from his sadness. A happy person can add even more fun to their life and since they already have the ability to appreciate good things they will enjoy having more free time, an ability to travel and so on.

To this I have to add that I don't suggest that anybody should be given more money and in my hypothetical example the 'lucky' person is the only one in his community.

I only had an hour of sleep and this weekend I wrote a lot of stupid things due to lack of sleep and sickness.

Carla

 

[Carla]

Ronnie - if you still have not lost interest in this discussion - I just reread the original article of the thread. As a surprise for myself I agree with every economist mentioned there, however I disagree with the title.

First claim - "Once a country gets fairly rich (though much poorer than the United States), further economic growth does not seem to make its citizens any happier." While this is true the explanations could be different. A country such as US is fairly unhappy for various reasons other than people getting richer. This statement seems to have more to do with historical observations. A country whose citizens were happy/unhappy 100 years ago is likely to remain happy/unhappy despite the economic growth. The scientists are still puzzled why in Iceland the rate of depression and suicide is much lower than in England (two countries of comparable wealth). My guess would be it has something to do with genetics, with the weather and with the stress levels.

Second claim - "In every society, at any point in time, richer people are happier," you seem to be disagreeing with this one if I understand you correct.

Third claim - "Everything associated with self-employment--independence, autonomy--is also associated with being happy." I think we both agree on this one since we are both fairly self employed (you are to a greater extent than me). I will add to this that no employment is even better than self employment provided your income is the same.

Time to go to class soon,
Carla

 

[naughtylady]

Second claim - "In every society, at any point in time, richer people are happier,"

I most definately disagree with this statement. There is over 150 years of statistical research showing that it is not so. Read Emile Durkheim's writings on suicide.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[Carla]

I most definately disagree with this statement. There is over 150 years of statistical research showing that it is not so. Read Emile Durkheim's writings on suicide.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

In this case Emile Durkheim doesn't agree with Will Willkinson (what a name!) because this is the quote I took from the original article of this thread.

Statistitians are not the most precise people on Earth afterall if they are capable of providing contradictory data.

C.

 

[naughtylady]

Emile Durkheim was a sociologist from the late 19th century who is best known for his research on suicide trends.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[The Snark]

Poverty kills

It's worth remembering that poverty is relative. If you live in a country where everyone makes $100,000 a year and you only earn $50,000, then you're poor. But if the average income is only $25,000, then you're well off.

What's more, there's a substantial amount of research that shows that people living in countries with a high degree of inequality--that is, a real gap between the rich and the poor--tend to be more unhappy and less healthy than people living in countries where incomes are relatively equal. (For example, see the work of Richard Wilkinson.)

So money in and of itself does not make you happy. But if you lack money (and hence status) while others have it, it has a real effect--typically, you have lower self-esteem, worse health, and a shorter life span.

But one of the interesting things about Wilkinson's research is that he shows that the health of everyone--including the rich--is worse in societies that have a large gap between rich and poor. People in these societies tend to be more stressed (and hence less healthy) because they are constantly worrying about their place in the pecking order, and are well aware that a loss of income could have devastating consequences for their social status.

 

[MakeIt]

Its relative

I though about the comments here some more - especially Carla's and Ronnie's. In a way you're both right. I struggled financially in my school years and though I was not depressed, there were times when I was unhappy. When I got my first real job after university, getting a real paycheck definitly made me happier. However, as I've gotten older (and my income has risen), more money is not what makes me happy - its many things I do (not necessarily requiring money) that makes me happy - when I am - which is not always.

I think Carla's point on poverty and echoed by The Snark makes sense, not because it buys you happiness, but because it buys you dignity. Not having any dignity can make someone very unhappy. The only way to fix this is for the person to gain some self-sufficiency to get their dignity back. However, once you reach a certain level of self-sufficiency (and dignity) the rate at which money can impact you happiness starts to level off. And once you get into this zone, this is where jealousy and greed also become factors for those people who get carried away with money.

I was on my favorite quotes site and found some good ones on this subject:

Remember that happiness is a way of travel - not a destination. Roy M. Goodman

If we cannot live so as to be happy, let us least live so as to deserve it. Immanuel Hermann Fichte

Happiness: a good bank account, a good cook and a good digestion. Jean Jacques Rousseau