Mostly for the Indy ladies but gentlemen welcome

[Anna Bijou]

I love working independently. It's not for everyone but I couldn't imagine working any other way.

BUT I've really realized that we definitely work our butts off for our money in ways we don't always acknowledge. Recently I realized that the amount of time we (or, at least, I) actually spend on communicating back and forth with prospective clients, is really high. The amount of time I spend which doesn't result in an appointment is what most of my time is spent on.

Is this normal? Do other types of 'businesses' or different service providers experience this as well.

Is there some kind of average ratio that is expected and anything above that should be avoided?

I know it's a weird question but I am really asking myself if I should be spending so much time for no gain. Or if it's part of the game and inevitable?

Thoughts from anyone from any kind of business experience.



MOD Hope this is allowed. If not, my apologies, please delete.

 

[WasteIslander]

I would say it is on par with ANY business.

I worked in sales for 15 years and at a car dealership for 2, that was one of the worst jobs I ever had, hit/success rates are really bad. honestly a 1 in 10 or 1 in 15 hit rate is acceptable. The moment it hits 5% or less, get out.

I was once told that cold call sales were a success at anything higher than 2%, let that sink in.

I found once the sale was made, when those clients referred people to me or came back my sales rates were higher.

 

[PS97]

You’re totally right! Admin work is super time-consuming. I find that for every booking I take, I’m probably spending something like half an hour planning out the logistics (with the client, with the folks I share an incall space with, etc). Factor in other things like travel time, grooming appointments, etc, and we probably spend half of our waking hours passively “doing work” outside of actually seeing clients. It’s hard to be independent and set “part time” hours for yourself because there’s inevitably so much going on behind the scenes.

I’m perhaps a little bit unforgiving when it comes to communications— if I need to go back-and-forth with a client for more than 4 emails and we still haven’t gotten to the choosing-a-date stage, I’ll probably write them off as a time waster. The clients that I choose to engage with via email (and eventually see in person!) are those who open with their screening info, general availability, and perhaps a few specific requests about the experience we’re going to share. When I’m more selective about who I respond to, my “success rate” for the clients I communicate with is probably somewhere around 80%— if I replied to everyone who ever reached out to me it would drop to like 20. With all this said, I’d love to hear what other providers have to say about how they manage their own time! I see a limited number of clients and never have same day availability, so my practices aren’t going to be the same as other folks’.

 

[Fradi]

I agree totally with the OP about time wasters who don’t read all the information on web sights and don’t do their research, it must be so annoying and it cannot be easy seeing it so often.

However there is another side of it also.
I am not a time waster and will give you all the information you need when I approach you for the first time.
Having said that there is a reason I pick independents always and not agency girls.
I do like to communication with a bit of a personal touch, for instance when I ask for a second date It Is nice to receive a few words instead of just what time how long and which day, chao.
Same thing goes if after a meet I send you an email thanking you, If you answer me back yeah I had fun too, and that is it well no you are not going to see me again.
For me the biggest turn off is if you make me feel like an ATM during communication, just like an SP doesn’t like an email saying “ Hey, are you available “ and being treated like a piece of meat.
The ladies I see are all fabulous and know the value of being kind and thoughtful and having a personal touch.
If I didn’t want this kind of personal touch I would talk to a booker and safe myself a lot of money.

 

[Anna Bijou]

You’re totally right! Admin work is super time-consuming. I find that for every booking I take, I’m probably spending something like half an hour planning out the logistics (with the client, with the folks I share an incall space with, etc). Factor in other things like travel time, grooming appointments, etc, and we probably spend half of our waking hours passively “doing work” outside of actually seeing clients. It’s hard to be independent and set “part time” hours for yourself because there’s inevitably so much going on behind the scenes.

I’m perhaps a little bit unforgiving when it comes to communications— if I need to go back-and-forth with a client for more than 4 emails and we still haven’t gotten to the choosing-a-date stage, I’ll probably write them off as a time waster. The clients that I choose to engage with via email (and eventually see in person!) are those who open with their screening info, general availability, and perhaps a few specific requests about the experience we’re going to share. When I’m more selective about who I respond to, my “success rate” for the clients I communicate with is probably somewhere around 80%— if I replied to everyone who ever reached out to me it would drop to like 20. With all this said, I’d love to hear what other providers have to say about how they manage their own time! I see a limited number of clients and never have same day availability, so my practices aren’t going to be the same as other folks’.

I do this to a certain extent. There are message I don't respond to at all but I think I might need to put a limit on the ones I do respond to that take a long time. But some clients also need a bit more reassurance before booking so it's hard to set a specific number of messages before writing them off as time wasters.

What I have been wasting a lot of time on is requirements for outcalls, such as sending the Uber or giving a deposit. I get that a lot of clients have been scammed, which is truly shitty, but I've spent so much time explaining, arguing and having to repeat that it is not up for negotiation.

"I'm a gentleman, you can trust me"

The other day the client wouldn't even provide proof of address. Sure, I'll spend my money taking a taxi to an address given to me by a random stranger by text message..?!?

A Lot of time spent repeating this requirement and not hearing back. The volume of messages I receive has increased for some reason and I think that this is why I'm really noticing it so much.

 

[Anna Bijou]

Are they asking you questions that aren’t available as information on your website, your ads, and your reviews?

Yes that's what is annoying.


° That's the inconsiderate time waster
When someone contacts me just to ask basic information like rates, location, age etc, which are definitely listed wherever they found my ad. Not even in a single message but in separate messages, all of which I take the time to answer.

At least if it was one message instead of a series of single line messages resulting in an extended exchange of messages...meaning a lot of time spent.

And after all that, no more messages and no booking. That is a complete disregard for my time.




° Then there's the intentional time waster.
He knows he's not going to book, he's just an ass with too much time on his hands who gets a kick out of messing with providers.

He's either going to drag it for as long as possible and disappear.
Or he might possibly book and either no-show or cancel last minute.
Or he's going to get rude and end with insults and offensive messages.





° There's the haggler time waster.
He who will try to low ball you. Then ignore your answer continue to push and insist

Client : "What's your rate for 30min"
Me: "It's xxx"
Client : "I'll give you xy"
....
Client : "?"
Me (Sigh) : "I believe I already responded and I think my answer was pretty clear."

° There's the bored time waster.
And for some reason they seem to pick the same days to do this. I had a few days during covid (weekends mostly) when I would just get one after another. I'd get so frustrated my friend convinced me it was better to just turn off my phone. Lol Covid curfew was brutal for those poor bored wankers.



° Then there's the bullshitter/Manipulater time waster.
Dangling a carrot by claiming to want to spend a lot of money. For an inexperienced sp, it's easy to get sucked in. Eventually you can spot them a mile away. When it sounds too good to be true, it is bs.

PRO-TIP:
Clients with money to spend don't announce it
They book and they pay. The end.


Or the client who hasn't met you but keeps saying he's looking for a regular and planning to repeat often.

PRO-TIP :
Clients who are looking for a regular don't announce it.
They book and they repeat. The end.




° Then there's the masturbating material collector time waster (same category as picture collector)
He will ask you a million questions about what you will be wearing, what you will do, precisely how, etc. Just try to get you to create a scene for their masturbating session. When these types of questions are asked consecutively, and the call is dragging on, time to cut it off.
These guys never book.



I'm sure I missed some but those are the most common types of time wasters I encounter.

 

[Anna Bijou]

I agree totally with the OP about time wasters who don’t read all the information on web sights and don’t do their research, it must be so annoying and it cannot be easy seeing it so often.

However there is another side of it also.
I am not a time waster and will give you all the information you need when I approach you for the first time.
Having said that there is a reason I pick independents always and not agency girls.
I do like to communication with a bit of a personal touch, for instance when I ask for a second date It Is nice to receive a few words instead of just what time how long and which day, chao.
Same thing goes if after a meet I send you an email thanking you, If you answer me back yeah I had fun too, and that is it well no you are not going to see me again.
For me the biggest turn off is if you make me feel like an ATM during communication, just like an SP doesn’t like an email saying “ Hey, are you available “ and being treated like a piece of meat.
The ladies I see are all fabulous and know the value of being kind and thoughtful and having a personal touch.
If I didn’t want this kind of personal touch I would talk to a booker and safe myself a lot of money.

I have heard this before as well. That sometimes they ask questions and information about things that are available on my website or ads simply to see how I reply, my attitude and get a feel for the kind of person I am. That's cool., I can understand. I am looking for the same insight from their messages. You can tell a lot about someone by exchanging a few texts. But you don't need 20 texts. Also, the language some people use can be such a turn off.


Honestly, at least 80% of clients who book are straightforward, know what they want and the process is easy

 

[crinolynne]

I have heard this before as well. That sometimes they ask questions and information about things that are available on my website or ads simply to see how I reply, my attitude and get a feel for the kind of person I am. That's cool., I can understand. I am looking for the same insight from their messages. You can tell a lot about someone by exchanging a few texts. But you don't need 20 texts. Also, the language some people use can be such a turn off.


Honestly, at least 80% of clients who book are straightforward, know what they want and the process is easy

I usually have a couple of questions that are very important: where are you? I'm not asking for an address but it's going to take time, planning depending on where you are. And that's going to dictate what time will work out best. And wrt to day/time, I'm actually quite flexible, what'd I'd really like is a date/time when you're well rested, not rushing to another client, work or whatever. And I don't want to waste your time, so let's do all that by email so you can answer when it's convenient for you. Maybe it's just me, but I find text too inefficient.

 

[Anna Bijou]

I usually have a couple of questions that are very important: where are you? I'm not asking for an address but it's going to take time, planning depending on where you are. And that's going to dictate what time will work out best. And wrt to day/time, I'm actually quite flexible, what'd I'd really like is a date/time when you're well rested, not rushing to another client, work or whatever. And I don't want to waste your time, so let's do all that by email so you can answer when it's convenient for you. Maybe it's just me, but I find text too inefficient.

I don't want this thread and my comments to be interpreted as me labelling anyone who doesn't book as a time waster. Just to clarify. Its part of my work to answer inquiries and I have no problem with that. I have a problem with genuine time wasters. The location question is definitely important and can determine if the client can book or not.

I prefer text over any other method of contact. Used to be easy with email but honestly I get so few emails that I wasn't checking as much and would miss some. I'm better at checking but I rarely get emails. I have a weird phobia about phone calls in general, private life included. So it's really hard for me to to take calls that are not planned beforehand (for confirmation). But I agree there are challenges when texting.

 

[Anna Bijou]

I would say it's true in any business. All the self-employed I know have stories about clients, time waster, delays, stupid requests, etc. We're not alone.

One good thing to remember is that you cannot control the clients and the messages, the requests they send you. But you can control what, when, how and if you answer to them.

Personally, I don't waste my time and I'm not angry at clients anymore about wasting my time and being annoying because I know exactly when to stop reading and answering. I am the one controling my time and my energy.

In the example above (fictive or not, about the client lowballing) as soon as he offers to pay less, you cease contact, you don't need to read what he will say next, you don't need to reply, it's not important, you know he won't be a client. So when he comes back, explaining to him that you just answered him and you were clear is YOU that decided to waste more time on a never-gonna-be-client. You cannot control them replying and having frivolous requests, but you can block them, stop reading and stop answering. That's where you have control on your time and energy.

I see this kind of mistake done too often. Providers are mad at clients on Twitter, post the screenshot of their long back and forth, blaming the client for being an asshole, half the time I think the girl is as guilty as the guy. If his second answer is still stupid, I just cease all contact and move on. It's really that simple. I see providers replying and replying, both are insulting each other, what was a basic conversation now escalates uselessly. Of course they are wasting their time and it will make them mad. But the client is not the only one to blame here, we all can control when, how, if and to whom we answer. (Other times, yes, some are to blame and we need to warn other providers, but it's not what I am talking about here.)

Also, I try to put all my questions and instructions (if need be) in one message, so everything is clear and known and the client can answer efficiently in one message as well. But I am a very organised and efficient person.

Excellent advice. You are completely right. I have started doing this and ending the conversation earlier. Often, I've simply blocked them. I've save a few responses to the standard questions to my clipboard in French and English version so that's helped as well. My predictive texting also suggests the most common answers so I just select without having to type

 

[PS97]

I do this to a certain extent. There are message I don't respond to at all but I think I might need to put a limit on the ones I do respond to that take a long time. But some clients also need a bit more reassurance before book so it's hard to set a specific number of messages before writing them off as time wasters.

What I have been wasting a lot of time on is requirements for outcalls, such as sending the Uber or giving a deposit. I get that a lot of clients have been scammed, which is truly shitty, but I've spent so much time explaining, arguing and having to repeat that it is not up for negotiation.

"I'm a gentleman, you can trust me"

The other day the client wouldn't even provide proof of address. Sure, I'll spend my money taking a taxi to an address given to me by a random stranger by text message..?!?

A Lot of time spent repeating this requirement and not hearing back. The volume of messages I receive as increased for some reason and I think that this is why I'm really noticing it so much.

What I have been wasting a lot of time on is requirements for outcalls, such as sending the Uber or giving a deposit. I get that a lot of clients have been scammed, which is truly shitty, but I've spent so much time explaining, arguing and having to repeat that it is not up for negotiation.

"I'm a gentleman, you can trust me"

The other day the client wouldn't even provide proof of address. Sure, I'll spend my money taking a taxi to an address given to me by a random stranger by text message..?!?

A Lot of time spent repeating this requirement and not hearing back. The volume of messages I receive as increased for some reason and I think that this is why I'm really noticing it so much.

I think that this is one of those instances where providers are made to weigh their financial needs against their limits and boundaries— obviously some folks can’t pass up the opportunity to make money when they’re faced with a client who isn’t willing to send screening or a deposit. With that said, I find that when a client tries to negotiate the requirements for booking me (screening, address, whatever), I am no longer interested in seeing him. I’m willing to be cordial and warm in my emails, but if I need to coax someone into doing something which is *clearly outlined* as being part of my booking process on every advertising platform, I don’t feel confident that they will take my boundaries seriously.

 

[Fradi]

I think that this is one of those instances where providers are made to weigh their financial needs against their limits and boundaries— obviously some folks can’t pass up the opportunity to make money when they’re faced with a client who isn’t willing to send screening or a deposit. With that said, I find that when a client tries to negotiate the requirements for booking me (screening, address, whatever), I am no longer interested in seeing him. I’m willing to be cordial and warm in my emails, but if I need to coax someone into doing something which is *clearly outlined* as being part of my booking process on every advertising platform, I don’t feel confident that they will take my boundaries seriously.

These things unfortunately happen because there are people on both sides that have abused the other.
For instance it is really a shame, but I will not give a government photo ID to any provider that I haven’t met before no matter how solid their reputation and neither will I make an e-transfer linking my bank account to a service provider. If that is what they request on their web sight I just simply move on. It is their right to ask for whatever makes them comfortable I understand that and respect that.
Providers who know me know that I would never do anything to endanger them or play games with them, but of course when you don’t know each other they have the same kind of mistrust that we do and it takes a lot to have a good comfort level.
Yes I also understand that providers are in more danger than we are most of the time.
I don’t mind giving references of other providers, I will even provide a deposit through a gift card to someone who has a solid reputation although I have been burned before, but the loss of $50-$100 is not going to make a difference in my life and I am not going to worry too much over it. I look at it that losing that is probably way better than actually seeing someone who would scam you.

I do sympathize with the ladies as I have heard many weird things that they have gone through and there are people out there that don’t treat them with the respect that they deserve.

There is one thing that does get to me when a provider goes through a list of screening things for their safety but then says at the end if you can’t provide any of that then a 25% deposit is acceptable.
For me I will never approach a provider saying that, sorry a 25% deposit does nothing for your safety and you are making it so obvious what your main concern is.
Asking for a deposit to eliminate time wasters, no shows I get, for your safety, totally ridiculous, there are just as many rich scumbags as poor ones.

 

[Gabrielle Laliberté]

Unfortunately, Time Waster are part of every business. It's true there's different type of TW, but I think it's also a question of different way to work and connect. Giselle is right : the only thing you can control is tout limits and energy you give. But also, the way you communicate in your ads. As exemple, I always write that I expect a little présentation - nothing complicated, but for me it's important to read about hopes, desires and fantasy about our date. I usually never answer to a simple "hello". Some people dont like my way, they prefer deposit or other methods, and it's all good. There's no magic Universal recipe - trust your gut feeling.

 

[AlmostMidaged]

4 emails from a client BEFORE a date/time is booked. What are you guys even talking about??!!? That sounds way to soft. Assert yourself sooner than that! Mind you, I am assuming these communications consist of more than a single sentence...

I think 2 emails max that answers all questions and has personality /individual flair is enough for anyone who isn’t a newbie to paying. For someone newer who is earnestly curious, I’d say maybe one more, but you gotta he firm as fuck bout a date/time.

First response is the most important because if it doesn’t demonstrate some “je ne sais quoi ” it means the dude is just after the acronyms and see’s you as 100% sex object. That’s a dude unlikely to repeat, unless it’s an acronym few of your ethnicity/ look provide. The response doesn’t even need to be long...could even be apologizing for being curt. Lol. Just needs to feel real.

Just my opinion.Not sure if I stayed on topic or if it’s valid.

 

[PS97]

4 emails from a client BEFORE a date/time is booked. What are you guys even talking about??!!? That sounds way to soft. Assert yourself sooner than that! Mind you, I am assuming these communications consist of more than a single sentence...

I think 2 emails max that answers all questions and has personality /individual flair is enough for anyone who isn’t a newbie to paying. For someone newer who is earnestly curious, I’d say maybe one more, but you gotta he firm as fuck bout a date/time.

First response is the most important because if it doesn’t demonstrate some “je ne sais quoi ” it means the dude is just after the acronyms and see’s you as 100% sex object. That’s a dude unlikely to repeat, unless it’s an acronym few of your ethnicity/ look provide. The response doesn’t even need to be long...could even be apologizing for being curt. Lol. Just needs to feel real.

Just my opinion.Not sure if I stayed on topic or if it’s valid.

Four emails as in "two from me, two from him"! On my website and ads, I ask clients to briefly tell me about themselves and specify whether they have niche requests in their initial email. I like to reserve my first and second response for discussing whether or not I can provide them with the experience they're looking for (or alternatively, whether I want to provide them with that experience). Otherwise, I think you're not wrong. This is also why I prefer email to texting-- a client can compile all of his questions in a single email, as opposed to barraging me with 47 messages.

 

[luvdozer]

Ultimately, this is about trading time for control. If you work for an agency or you work as indy but hire someone else to be your booker, you give up some money, but you also gain time and freedom. You set a schedule and let someone else do the work filling it. You focus on providing great service and beyond that you are free. On the other hand, if you handle your own bookings, have to devote time to that process - including dealing with time wasters - but you get to rely on your own intuition with every new client. Every time you are approached by someone new for a booking, you always make choices based on your comfort level. If you decide to turn that person down, you dont owe anyone any explanation.

It is all about which is more important to you - time or control.

 

[AlmostMidaged]

Ultimately, this is about trading time for control. If you work for an agency or you work as indy but hire someone else to be your booker, you give up some money, but you also gain time and freedom. You set a schedule and let someone else do the work filling it. You focus on providing great service and beyond that you are free. On the other hand, if you handle your own bookings, have to devote time to that process - including dealing with time wasters - but you get to rely on your own intuition with every new client. Every time you are approached by someone new for a booking, you always make choices based on your comfort level. If you decide to turn that person down, you dont owe anyone any explanation.

It is all about which is more important to you - time or control.

Hmmm. Yeah. You know it’s funny because it applies to a lot of things. A guy I know works OT whenever it is offered, and it is offered a lot. He likewise remains working nights, despite being able to request a more natural sleep schedule. Every time I see him he looks shot to shit, and I always ask him why. The dude always tells me because money. He ain’t wrong in a sense, since we ain’t “highfalutin” lawyers, doctors, or business men so we always got to put in work to keep from falling below the line. On the other hand, I don’t know if it’s worth it. He will have his condo paid off fast as hell though. Shit, I feel like maybe I should aim for the same...does that make you a happier person deep down? Will it make you happier 20 years from now when you reflect on it?

I don’t know.

Edit: I realize the above may have sounded like I was saying those 3 professions are not working hard or that people didn’t have to work hard to achieve them. That is not what I meant at all. If you look up what I takes to be a neurosurgeon, it will blow your mind. I should have been a doctor. It’s too bad I am almost mid aged so it’s to late.