Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning

[Fradi]

The girls had a choice to leave. They were not prisoners. No one forced them to stay with XO. But they wanted the fast money so they stayed even if they hated it.

You are correct however these agencies prey on girls who need fast money and don’t have many options other than prostitution.
It is easy to say they could have left but you don’t make that kind of money waitressing and many of these girls can’t hold down regular jobs.

Agencies are modern day pimps. They are not advertising agencies they are not there to provide decent employment ( how many agencies provide health care, paid vacation etc… or anything that a normal employer does) and their sole interest is money.

I will never be part of this type of exploitation of women by pimps.

 

[hob12]

What’s good about it? 15 min break between clients and seeing 7-8 clients per day??

They’re not machines. How can they provide a consistently good service under these conditions ?

If the agency owners truly cared about the girls, they give them at least 30 minutes between clients, and make them see max 4-5 clients per day. It would reduce their overall profits, but it’d be better for the girls, the clients and everybody involved.

Unfortunately, it’s a bloodthirsty, money making operation, so most don’t care too much about the girls (I won’t generalize).

My 2 cents.

I see plenty of agency girls who don't work often, a lot do small shifts when they do work and some even have mandatory 2hours appointments.

And I'm sorry but like cloud said they can walk away if they don't like their working conditions... like anybody else.

 

[powtvani]

Wait so they have 15 mins between calls but I know very well some of you will try to stay an extra 5 mins for free which means she now only has 10 mins to shower, change the sheets, empty the trash and clean the glasses you’ve used. As a result, she will have to contact the booker to say she needs more time and will be charged a late fee. I know it happens because I’ve also read that in reviews “I got there on time but had to wait 10 mins in my car”

Or she just won’t shower to save time

The more I think about it, the worse it gets tbh

I do not think this is correct, this "late fee" refers to if she arrived to the agreed appointment late. (For example, her schedule started at 10am and she arrived at 10:20am). In this case, the client was credited a certain amount due to shortened appt and it came out of the girl's earning.

Also, if for whatever reason the session got dragged longer, the next client's time got shortened, not that the girl got charged "late fee". This doesn't even make sense.

What’s good about it? 15 min break between clients and seeing 7-8 clients per day??

They’re not machines. How can they provide a consistently good service under these conditions ?

If the agency owners truly cared about the girls, they give them at least 30 minutes between clients, and make them see max 4-5 clients per day. It would reduce their overall profits, but it’d be better for the girls, the clients and everybody involved.

Unfortunately, it’s a bloodthirsty, money making operation, so most don’t care too much about the girls (I won’t generalize).

My 2 cents.

But you are generalizing.
I don't see an issue as long as provider is the one choosing to see 7-8 clients a day, it is that person's decision. Who are you to judge?

There are plenty of girls in several agencies that only work very short shifts once/twice a week. And they are popular girls that get booked instantly. I don't see them getting forced to work long hours.

I agree that XO's predatory behaviors shown in the article is horrible and cannot and should not happen, but to throw all the agencies into the same basket is wrong.

 

[Julia Sky]

I go to a salon that rents chairs to stylists with a model that uses some penalties etc.
They rent chairs to good stylists and cover the facility, advertising, scheduling etc. In return, they take their cut. Fair trade, good thriving business, everybody is happy.

Before escorting, I rented a chair in a tattoo parlor as a piercing artist. I have never, not once, been charged a fee for being late or having to take a day off. The only money I lost was the customers I couldn't see on those days. Never had to pay a fee. They took a cut on every piercing I did do, but they never charged me anything for being late or sick.

The fact that there are penalties for truancy and running late is not surprising, new or to me the real problem. Time is money - for everyone.

If a woman makes a commitment to be on the roster, the agency is budgeting an incall space or driver for her. If she cancels last minute and cannot prove an emergency, I don't think it's unreasonable to apply a penalty.

There was no mention of proving an emergency, which makes me think even an emergency wouldn't have changed anything. But also. I have a question. If a waitress doesn't show up (or shows up late) to work on a day where 6 large groups reserved tables, does her boss ask her to pay him? 100$ for the day and 80$ per table? Nope. He doesn't. She just doesn't get paid for the time she's not at work. If you're sick and can't go to work do you pay your boss or do you just not get paid?

The draconian implementation, coercion, and severity in this case with xo is what is damning.
If that is industry standard, I'm appalled.

We should all be appalled indeed

 

[Fradi]

Fradi,

I do not want to wade too deeply into the agency vs. Indy debate that this news story has spawned and is coursing through many posts in this thread. I have been a customer of both. However there is precedent in Montreal for a business which is essentially a "consortium of indies", behind which either one of them, or some other person, is a "pimp." I am not going to name names or point fingers but this same debate existed 20 years ago as what is a group of so called indies vs. an "agency". Businesses can be set up in myriad ways with myriad ownership structures and revenue apportionments and things may not be as they appear.

While I liked and agreed with much of what you posted, I am just suggesting that it's not always as black and white as it seems. There is gray in this world.

You are correct that it is not always black and white and there are grey areas.

There is nothing grey about any of the agencies they are glorified modern day pimps.
If you are referring to Indy Companions, you are wrong they are all independent Indy’s, I am friends with a few of them and know what they are about and how their set up works.
If you are referring to Unicorns which was run by a well known female escort. Yeah she was what I would call a kinder modern day pimp, but a pimp never the less.

The ladies I have seen are all independent Indy’s and I deal directly with them, I don’t even deal with any that have hired a booker as I will not work through middlemen.

While nobody likes to spend almost double for an hour or more with a lady for me it will always be worth it as I hate pimps.
Not everything is about money and you need to look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day and live according to your beliefs.

 

[Dorkhat]

It's crazy no other news outlet has this covered. I'm thinking investigations are still ongoing

 

[TheJames101]

I see plenty of agency girls who don't work often, a lot do small shifts when they do work and some even have mandatory 2hours appointments.

And I'm sorry but like cloud said they can walk away if they don't like their working conditions... like anybody else.

As has been pointed out, at least some were blackmailed into staying. Not so easy to walk away.

 

[adeliakitty]

Interesting takes here. I think it's not completely black and white.

This is a service industry. Making a client feel happy is good business and falls within the realm of professionalism. If a client is violent or disrespectful, having them ejected and banned similarly seems like it falls in the realm of good business and professionalism long term.

I go to a salon that rents chairs to stylists with a model that uses some penalties etc.
They rent chairs to good stylists and cover the facility, advertising, scheduling etc. In return, they take their cut. Fair trade, good thriving business, everybody is happy.

The fact that there are penalties for truancy and running late is not surprising, new or to me the real problem. Time is money - for everyone.

If a woman makes a commitment to be on the roster, the agency is budgeting an incall space or driver for her. If she cancels last minute and cannot prove an emergency, I don't think it's unreasonable to apply a penalty.

The draconian implementation, coercion, and severity in this case with xo is what is damning.
If that is industry standard, I'm appalled.

Any of the other top agencies following this thread that would chime in? There is a lot of implied and hearsay crimes being laid at your door.

Do you realize the double standard in place here ?

The inconvenience on the client side is lost time.

On the SP side, it’s physical assault, harm to their mental health and non consensual encounters.

This is not a service industry like every other. Very few, if not no other industry leaves the SP as vulnerable as this one.

 

[dcdialer]

On a slightly different subject, with fear of being identifiable ... I received a call from a number that identified (and that I later confirmed) to be from a defense attorney asking for a so-and-so.

I told him it was the wrong number.

He then asked me how long I had the number which I honestly replied. (Thinking even at the time that it was a weird question)

In retrospect I am wondering if it was to pinpoint the use of my phone. Pre-covid I was dumb... I used my main. I used XO only like ... 3... 4 times since I started?

I am not even sure I want to post this...

 

[hob12]

As has been pointed out, at least some were blackmailed into staying. Not so easy to walk away.

Where are you guys taking that from? I see girls come and go every week on Euphoria's website, to give one example. Did it ever happened in the history of the industry? Probably. Is it common practice? Really doubt it.

 

[adeliakitty]

The girls had a choice to leave. They were not prisoners. No one forced them to stay with XO. But they wanted the fast money so they stayed even if they hated it.

How do you know with certainty that some girls weren’t coerced? Blackmailed? Misled from sugar dating websites? Made to stay because now hooked on expensive substances?

I find you lack empathy.

 

[Giselle Montreal]

Where are you guys taking that from? I see girls come and go every week on Euphoria's website, to give one example. Did it ever happened in the history of the industry? Probably. Is it common practice? Really doubt it.

We are discussing the abuse that has taken place, and that might still happen today, by some agencies, to some providers in the industry. No one here implied that it's common practice.

 

[josie1987]

The girls had a choice to leave. They were not prisoners. No one forced them to stay with XO. But they wanted the fast money so they stayed even if they hated it.

Yup. There is no excuse in Canada. We have all kinds of ressources. It's all about hedonism and greed. Nothing the father of 17 year old girl mentioned in the article could've done. She would've sneaked around him anyway like a lot of teen girls do.

 

[EagerBeaver]

If you are referring to Indy Companions, you are wrong they are all independent Indy’s, I am friends with a few of them and know what they are about and how their set up works.
If you are referring to Unicorns which was run by a well known female escort. Yeah she was what I would call a kinder modern day pimp, but a pimp never the less.

Was not referring to either. Everyone who was around 2005-2010 knows who I am referring to. Pointless to name names because others had the same or similar structures. I also remember a consortium of "independents" that Tom of blue board was allegedly behind. Not sure of what the truth was on any of it, but the point is nobody knows. We are using labels that in some cases may not be real. The word "independent" is malleable in some cases and may mean something else.

It reminds me of the legal debate between what is an "independent contractor" and what is an ""employee." The average person thinks the Courts in the U.S.A resolve this by what your tax returns or records show. WRONG!!!!!! It's a fact-sensitive control test. An independent contractor truly controls their work. An employee does not. The same test applies in my mind in the escort world.

 

[2fast2slow]

Which is why I side eye people when they say “I knew agencies were problematic that’s why I only go to massage parlours”

some massage parlours are ethically run. The 2 I use are. I often asked the girls how they like the place and the biggest complaint i hear is "it is quiet, not enough clients". Thses places have had girls work there 5-7 years+ (even 10 years), which says a lot imho

 

[CLOUD 500]

Someone said it here, that some were blackmailed and forced to stay:

She could still leave. They would expose her but she was not held at gun point. As per what Rabbit said she quit either way after a few months.

Same choice to cancel a client and lose 100$.

What a choice ...

When she cancels the business incurs a loss. The incall costs money, it is planned the budget. Clients time is also valuable.

We’re just going to overlook the fact that some girls have been blackmailed? Quit and I will tell your family what you truly do for a living

I cannot confirm those girls were working at XO but they were working in agencies

How do you know? Were you in it? Because everything said is alleged and hearsay at best.

How do you know with certainty that some girls weren’t coerced? Blackmailed? Misled from sugar dating websites? Made to stay because now hooked on expensive substances?

How do you know? Did you work at XO? Were you in it? Anything said is alleged.

I find you lack empathy.

No, I deal in cold hard facts. I dislike this victim hood mentality that the media has been playing for a long time. The La Presse article is biased.

You are correct however these agencies prey on girls who need fast money and don’t have many options other than prostitution.
It is easy to say they could have left but you don’t make that kind of money waitressing and many of these girls can’t hold down regular jobs.

Agencies are modern day pimps. They are not advertising agencies they are not there to provide decent employment ( how many agencies provide health care, paid vacation etc… or anything that a normal employer does) and their sole interest is money.

I will never be part of this type of exploitation of women by pimps.

They still could leave. They were not threatened with violence, no one held them at gunpoint. How many girls we seen on XO's roster that left? Many. Were they all coerced?? If we really want to talk about coercion see what is happening in third world countries with human trafficking cases where young girls are threatened with actual violence. We are in an occidental country, they can leave. Okay they will tell their family that they worked as escorts but still they can leave. Even war criminal were able to flee.

You never worked for an outsourcer? I did. Let me tell you it was far from decent. We worked like slaves for such low pay with not much benefits. The TFW program is an example of modern day slavery as per the UN. But still I had a choice to leave and I did. But lets get real the girl wants the fast money, they do not want to work for McDonalds at minimum wage.

In that same sense you can label all outsourcers as pimps, but no one is ready to have that conversation.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Yup. There is no excuse in Canada. We have all kinds of ressources. It's all about hedonism and greed. Nothing the father of 17 year old girl mentioned in the article could've done. She would've sneaked around him anyway like a lot of teen girls do.

Exactly

 

[Giselle Montreal]

She could still leave. They would expose her but she was not held at gun point. As per what Rabbit said she quit either way after a few months.

When she cancels the business incurs a loss. The incall costs money, it is planned the budget. Clients time is also valuable.

No, I deal in cold hard facts. I dislike this victim hood mentality that the media has been playing for a long time. The La Presse article is biased.

They still could leave. They were not threatened with violence, no one held them at gunpoint. How many girls we seen on XO's roster that left? Many. Were they all coerced?? If we really want to talk about coercion see what is happening in third world countries with human trafficking cases where young girls are threatened with actual violence. We are in an occidental country, they can leave. Okay they will tell their family that they worked as escorts but still they can leave. Even war criminal were able to flee.

You never worked for an outsourcer? I did. Let me tell you it was far from decent. We worked like slaves for such low pay with not much benefits. The TFW program is an example of modern day slavery as per the UN. But still I had a choice to leave and I did. But lets get real the girl wants the fast money, they do not want to work for McDonalds at minimum wage.

In that same sense you can label all outsourcers as pimps, but no one is ready to have that conversation.

I understand from what you are saying that you do not know what's a power dynamic, what's abuse and exploitation.

 

[LC18]

some massage parlours are ethically run. The 2 I use are. I often asked the girls how they like the place and the biggest complaint i hear is "it is quiet, not enough clients". Thses places have had girls work there 5-7 years+ (even 10 years), which says a lot imho

And good agencies exist. I don’t feel like you understand very well what people here are trying to explain. Massage parlours aren’t better than agencies, they’re basically all the same.

Bad agencies exist, bad massage parlours exist, bad indies exist. I also don’t consider someone being pimped to be an independent worker, she’s very much dependent of her pimp

 

[LC18]

Man at this point Cloud 500, just contact XO’s former owners and offer them to pay for their legal fees. They can do no wrong in your eyes, you’ve proved this on a couple of pages at this point.

Despite the testimonies, news article and information from fellow clients