Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning

[Like_It_Hot]

Plenty of unethical things are legal and things that are ethical are illegal for instance possessing weed was illegal until a few years ago. For me, legal doesn't necessarily means ethical.

You are absolutely right! Ethics is a branch of philosophy that studies moral principles, defining what is right or wrong, good or harmful, to guide human behavior. It goes beyond personal preferences to focus on universal fairness, values and responsibility, particularly in specific areas such as bioethics or business. Ethics should influence and guide lawmakers in their work and not the reverse.

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Nuance importante que plusieurs non-spécialistes (dont moi) oublient souvent. Merci. En d'autres termes, le DPCP doit avoir la conviction morale qu'un juge ou un jury pourrait raisonnablement en venir à une déclaration de culpabilité, hors de tout doute raisonnable, selon la preuve présentée.

et si la victime refuse de témoigner... c'est presque impossible de produire une preuve hors de tout doute raisonnable. On le voit régulièrement dans les cas de violence conjugale... la victime retire sa plainte (souvent par crainte de représailles) et tout recommence.

 

[LC18]

What happened to the units they were renting? The landlord cancelled the leases?

Also, you kind of have to be naive if you think having men coming in and out of your unit every 60 mins or so won’t bring attention

Personally if my neighbour’s door was basically a swinging door because of the traffic, I would assume they’re dealing drug

 

[Fradi]

I think you completely missed the point of my post but since this is nothing but a personal attack it's pointless to respond.

There is nothing personal about it.
You have relevant and good comments in other threads, but not this one as simple as that because you have not been to Montreal in ages and can’t know what is going on and definitely not like SP that worked for XO and working Indy’s that post here.

What happened 20 years ago is nice to remember especially pleasant memories but it usually doesn’t represent or have any bearing on current situations.

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

What happened to the units they were renting? The landlord cancelled the leases?

L'article mentionne ceci. "selon nos informations, au moins deux immeubles utilisés pour la commission des crimes allégués font l’objet d’une ordonnance de blocage."
En tant que non-spécialiste, je vais me garder de spéculer (pour une fois!)

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

et si la victime refuse de témoigner... c'est presque impossible de produire une preuve hors de tout doute raisonnable. On le voit régulièrement dans les cas de violence conjugale... la victime retire sa plainte (souvent par crainte de représailles) et tout recommence.

Et ce que peu de gens comprennent aussi, est que le standard de preuve élevé (hors de tout doute raisonnable) existe pour minimiser les risques d'envoyer des gens innocents en prison!

 

[Like_It_Hot]

Et ce que peu de gens comprennent aussi, est que le standard de preuve élevé (hors de tout doute raisonnable) existe pour minimiser les risques d'envoyer des gens innocents en prison!

et j'ajouterais... plus tu as d'argent pour te payer un ou des bons avocats, plus ta présomption d'innocence prendra de l'importance... Mais c'est une autre question qui déborde le cadre de la discussion originale. La Justice nous déçoit souvent. rien n'est parfait ici-bas...

 

[LeDodo]

What happened to the units they were renting? The landlord cancelled the leases?

Also, you kind of have to be naive if you think having men coming in and out of your unit every 60 mins or so won’t bring attention

Personally if my neighbour’s door was basically a swinging door because of the traffic, I would assume they’re dealing drug

I always wondered if agencies condo are rented or part of their business model where they accumulate wealth to invest it / or use their primary business as funding for alternative investments.

I did a little research on this case and didn't find any property assets seizure by LE.
Because usually if there are assets proven to be linked to criminal activity, it can be permanently forfeited and then auctioned off or otherwise disposed of, with proceeds often going to the government or specific funds.

It leads to specific government ran auction where you could bid for properties and cars (for the most interesting ones) that belonged to these organizations.

 

[Giselle Montreal]

I always wondered if agencies condo are rented or part of their business model where they accumulate wealth to invest it / or use their primary business as funding for alternative investments.

I did a little research on this case and didn't find any property assets seizure by LE.
Because usually if there are assets proven to be linked to criminal activity, it can be permanently forfeited and then auctioned off or otherwise disposed of, with proceeds often going to the government or specific funds.

They probably just rent so they can leave and move as needed.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

From what I hear they are rented. A lot of buildings downtown have agency or indy incalls or both. These buildings are owned by companies that are mostly interested in profit and won't really get involved unless there is a serious problem. I think that a lot of these buildings have companies, Airbnb's and mostly absent professionals living there.

That being said incalls shared by indies don't have people coming and going from morning to night usually.

It's a bit surprising to me that these agencies don't move units for years. If it's the case it seems highly negligent and risky for everyone involved..

 

[AnthonyAnderson]

I always wondered if agencies condo are rented or part of their business model where they accumulate wealth to invest it / or use their primary business as funding for alternative investments

They are rented. To add yet another complexity to this case, landlords have an obligation to take reasonable steps to prevent criminal activity from taking place on their rented properties. Also, typically, when one signs a lease, they agree not to use the premises for criminal activity.

 

[hob12]

et si la victime refuse de témoigner... c'est presque impossible de produire une preuve hors de tout doute raisonnable. On le voit régulièrement dans les cas de violence conjugale... la victime retire sa plainte (souvent par crainte de représailles) et tout recommence.

C'est l'État qui décide de poursuivre au criminel au Canada. Peu importe ce que la victime fait.

 

[Giselle Montreal]

That being said, it's a bit surprising to me that these agencies don't move units for years. If it's the case it seems highly negligent and risky for everyone involved..

I wonder too why they don't move at least once a year since the volume of client is high and noticeable. It's not like they accumulate a lot of furniture.

 

[hob12]

Once I went to an incall building and I passed in front of an appt I know was used as an incall and I could hear the moaning very loudly lol.

 

[Smokemeal2]

I think most of us would agree with everything you said , however Capt is correct that there is no such thing as ethically paying for sex especially when it is against the law.

True, it's not that ethical... But it is surely physical

It's not ethical, but we do it. We do it because we are alive.

Today at the dog park, a very cute girl entered. Fit yoga pants. My dog went to see her. Lick her hands, face. Smelled her but and vagina... Damn, he can deliberately do things I have to pay for!

 

[minutemenX]

My 2 cents to this extensive discussion. For me any outcall is not safe even with Indies. Anything can happen in a space you have no control off. Bad boyfriends, neighbors, gung “protectors” etc. Residential places or Airbnb are however problematic with indies as you usually must establish yourself with a girl beforehand renting for the first and probably the second meeting an expensive 5-star hotel. I disagree that massage parlors are safer especially when many are operating as incall places and LE knows that. There were also reports of cameras and microphones installed in the rooms. This leaves only agencies with outcalls as a most feasible option. It can be the safest bet if you stick to a reputable agency and a reputable middle age SP. LE can’t simply enter your private space without a warrant with a rare exception that somebody’s life is in danger.

As if it is ethical or not paying for sex. If you listen to hypocrites it is even not ethical to masturbate.

 

[chiff209]

I wonder too why they don't move at least once a year since the volume of client is high and noticeable. It's not like they accumulate a lot of furniture.

People tend to be lazy and get complacent. Things were going fine with a landlord who didn't bother them so why change things up. A new place also runs the risk of nosy neighbors or a landlord who catches on and calls the cops.

 

[Giselle Montreal]

People tend to be lazy and get complacent. Things were going fine with a landlord who didn't bother them so why change things up. A new place also runs the risk of nosy neighbors or a landlord who catches on and calls the cops.

I would think that after 3 years of your condo being as busy as a mall, the risks of neighbors calling the cops are higher. A year is short and when people start noticing you, you are already gone.

 

[chiff209]

My 2 cents to this extensive discussion. For me any outcall is not safe even with Indies. Anything can happen in a space you have no control off. Bad boyfriends, neighbors, gung “protectors” etc. Residential places or Airbnb are however problematic with indies as you usually must establish yourself with a girl beforehand renting for the first and probably the second meeting an expensive 5-star hotel. I disagree that massage parlors are safer especially when many are operated as incall places and LE knows that. There were also reports of cameras and microphones installed in the rooms. This leaves only agencies with outcalls as a most feasible option. It can be the safest bet if you stick to a reputable agency and a reputable middle age SP. LE can’t simply enter your private place without a warrant with a rare exception that somebody’s life is in danger.

It's so hard to tell which agencies are reputable. I got very close to a provider who has alternated between independent work and agency work in Montreal. Even though she was one of their top girls, and could often dictate higher rates and preferential treatment, they still booked a client with her who was on her blocked list for having attempted stealthing. The fact that this client was still allowed to book with the agency is abhorrent, on top of the fact that they let them see her.

At this point I only see independent providers or ones I've met before.

 

[chiff209]

I would think that after 3 years of your condo being as busy as mall, the risks of neighbors calling the cops are higher. A year is short and when people start noticing you, you are already gone.

Thankfully for the police criminals are often dumb.