Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning

[Fradi]

We should all tamper down our high moral speech, we are after all Johns, and no matter how you slice it, deep down we are using women also...

Yes we are.
Which I had a huge problem with and it took over 2 years before I actually contacted a lady who has been my ATF for the past 9 years.
The reasoning was that whether I see an SP or not it is not going to be the deciding factor for her to change her life and quit her profession.
At least I knew that while she was with me she would be safe, treated with kindness and respect, she wouldn’t have to worry about not being paid or her boundaries being pushed.
Today she is a long time friend who I see not only as a companion but as a friend also, and she has quit escorting 3 years ago.
Yes we are all part of the problem.

 

[LeDodo]

Personne ne met toutes les agences dans le même bateau. La majorité des gens parlent surtout de XO et de leurs expériences là-bas

Je comprends que tu veuilles défendre l’industrie, mais ça ne veut pas dire qu’il faut remettre en question ou minimiser ce que d’autres filles ont vécu.

Le problème dans ce thread, c’est justement que certaines expériences sont mises de côté simplement parce que d’autres ne les ont pas vues ou vécues.

Pourtant, des situations difficiles, ça arrive partout, j’en ai vécu moi-même dans plusieurs endroits (agressions, condom brisé, clients qui ne respectent pas, clients qui partent sans payer, client qui OD dans la chambre … et etc.), et malgré ça on devait continuer à travailler comme si de rien n’était.

Même quand un client partait avec l’argent après l’acte, il m’est arrivé de devoir quand même payer ma cut et ça, je l’ai vécu à plusieurs endroits.

Donc oui, toutes les agences ne sont pas pareilles, mais ignorer des expériences simplement parce qu’on ne les a pas vues, c’est exactement comme ça que certaines réalités restent invisibles.

Au final, personne n’a la vision complète, donc c’est important de laisser de la place à toutes les voix.

Oui c'est dommage que les expériences positives viennent dénigrer celles qui sont négatives.

Je comprends la crainte que trop de partage des expériences négatives ont un potentiel impact sur les affaires (quoique ...) mais le démentèlement en soit d'une agence d'escortes a un plus fort impact à mon avis que le partage de pratiques douteuses ...

Cette nouvelle a ouvert une opportunité de partager le côté moins glamour de l'industrie.

Ici en général la parole est donnée aux clients qui font des reviews bonnes ou mauvaises. Pour de bonnes raisons, l'inverse est très rare.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Yes we are.
Which I had a huge problem with and it took over 2 years before I actually contacted a lady who has been my ATF for the past 9 years.
The reasoning was that whether I see an SP or not it is not going to be the deciding factor for her to change her life and quit her profession.
At least I knew that while she was with me she would be safe, treated with kindness and respect, she wouldn’t have to worry about not being paid or her boundaries being pushed.
Today she is a long time friend who I see not only as a companion but as a friend also, and she has quit escorting 3 years ago.
Yes we are all part of the problem.

What is the problem, in your own words?

 

[Cap'tain Fantastic]

Thank you for posting a unbiased neutral perspective. I agree with a lot that you said. We need unbiased opinions.

I really don’t know how you can say that this is not biased

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Oui c'est dommage que les expériences positives viennent dénigrer celles qui sont négatives.

Je comprends la crainte que trop de partage des expériences négatives ont un potentiel impact sur les affaires (quoique ...) mais le démentèlement en soit d'une agence d'escortes a un plus fort impact à mon avis que le partage de pratiques douteuses ...

Cette nouvelle a ouvert une opportunité de partager le côté moins glamour de l'industrie.

Ici en général la parole est donnée aux clients qui font des reviews bonnes ou mauvaises. Pour de bonnes raisons, l'inverse est très rare.

J'ai été en contact avec d'autres personnes qui ont travaillé chez XO depuis avant hier et elles témoignent de trucs similaires, mais ne veulent pas s'en mêler. Je suis d'accord pour dire que chaque agence n'est pas la même. Mais je pense aussi que c'est important de se rappeler que, même si les employeurs d'une agence ou d'un salon sont abusifs ou négligeants, ça ne veut pas dire que tout le monde aura eu une expérience négative. Dans plusieurs établissements les ''favorites'' sont bien traitées et les nouvelles se font donner les mauvais clients. Même parmis les indépendantes, nous savons que les clients ne vont pas toutes nous traîter de la même manière. Il y a aussi beaucoup de gens qui tolèrent certaines choses comme un ''mal nécessaire''.

I really don’t know how you can say that this is not biased

Some people think something is unbiased if they agree with it..

 

[Fradi]

What is the problem, in your own words?

I am the problem.
To some extent I will always feel that I am using women by paying them and I am not 100% comfortable with the fact that they are half my age also.
I have children that age, would I want someone paying one of them to sleep with them , hell no.
There you have it, it is not so simple to be a client also.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I am the problem.
To some extent I will always feel that I am using women by paying them and I am not 100% comfortable with the fact that they are half my age also.
I have children that age, would I want someone paying one of them to sleep with them , hell no.
There you have it, it is not so simple to be a client also.

That still doesn't answer my question.. Why do you think you are using women by paying them? If a woman puts up an escort ad, with her limits and boundaries, and you as a client book her, treat her very well and respect her. Why is this using her?

Can you explain in your own words why you wouldn't want your children to do sex work, even with respectable clients? Suppose one of your children did sex work, but she had never experienced any coercion or abuse, and everyone around her was very supportive. Why would you not want her to do it?

 

[Georgy07]

That still doesn't answer my question.. Why do you think you are using women by paying them? If a woman puts up an escort ad, with her limits and boundaries, and you as a client book her, treat her very well and respect her. Why is this using her?

Can you explain in your own words why you wouldn't want your children to do sex work, even with respectable clients? Suppose one of your children did sex work, but she had never experienced any coercion or abuse, and everyone around her was very supportive. Why would you not want her to do it?

Because if she didnt need the money, she would not post this ad. Its a power dynamic. Because i have more money than you, i can have access to your body.

 

[TheJames101]

Don’t under estimate the power of such a paper on the public’s mind. If the article reaches its goal, (by creaing a strong reaction), the public could start to pressure authorities to take more serious actions against the escort agencies and the sex work scene in general.

I don't know that this story (which has not reached very far yet at all in the media) will be a big enough sensation that the police start to hunt down all the fellows in the hundreds (or more) of phone numbers they have. The resources involved would be more than they would likely be willing to use. Trust me, I am concerned about it - but reassured (slightly) by the logistical unlikelihood of it. I can see them using those resources to shut down other agencies or similar establishments, yes. Another reason to avoid them, as if this thread wasn't enough.

 

[Fradi]

That still doesn't answer my question.. Why do you think you are using women by paying them? If a woman puts up an escort ad, with her limits and boundaries, and you as a client book her, treat her very well and respect her. Why is this using her?

Can you explain in your own words why you wouldn't want your children to do sex work, even with respectable clients? Suppose one of your children did sex work, but she had never experienced any coercion or abuse, and everyone around her was very supportive. Why would you not want her to do it?

Why ? because I would consider myself a total failure as a parent if my child turned to sex work as a profession.
Would I support her and love her the same, of course I would. You are a parent for life and you accept that responsibility as long as you live no matter what your child does for a living.
Tell me what parent dreams that their child will earn their living as a prostitute.

Society will not accept this profession for a long time to come. There is a huge stigma attached to it.
You have expressed a hundred times the difficulty, the stigma the abuse that you yourself have suffered in this profession and countless others on Merb also.
You think that is what I would want for my child.
One thing you will always get from me , which is the truth.

 

[LC18]

Ce qui me travaille dans cet histoire, c'est que cette fille la précisément n'a pas vécu ce qu'elle dit

Et les autres dans le threads et ailleurs qui disent ne pas avoir été traitées correctement. Tu les crois?

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Why ? because I would consider myself a total failure as a parent if my child turned to sex work as a profession.
Would I support her and love her the same, of course I would. You are a parent for life and you accept that responsibility as long as you live no matter what your child does for a living.
Tell me what parent dreams that their child will earn their living as a prostitute.

Society will not accept this profession for a long time to come. There is a huge stigma attached to it.
You have expressed a hundred times the difficulty, the stigma the abuse that you yourself have suffered in this profession and countless others on Merb also.
You think that is what I would want for my child.
One thing you will always get from me , which is the truth.

Read my question again. If there was no stigma or abuse, why would you not want your child to be a sex worker? I'm not trying to convince you that you should say you'd love it if your child was.. let's reframe this. If you found out your child was a sex worker, wouldn't you want her working conditions to be good and for her to have respectful clients?

Also you haven't explained why you think you are using women you hire as sex workers.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I don't know that this story (which has not reached very far yet at all in the media) will be a big enough sensation that the police start to hunt down all the fellows in the hundreds (or more) of phone numbers they have. The resources involved would be more than they would likely be willing to use. Trust me, I am concerned about it - but reassured (slightly) by the logistical unlikelihood of it. I can see them using those resources to shut down other agencies or similar establishments, yes. Another reason to avoid them, as if this thread wasn't enough.

It's not the first time an agency or massage parlour gets dismantled and honestly aside from here I've heard nobody talk about this at all. Yes these stories cause outrage but people have a short attention span and ultimately the public doesn't really care about sex workers

 

[masterfreak]

Toujours le même débat entre agence versus indépendante
J'ai rencontré plusieurs travailleuses du sexe
indépendante avec de très sérieux problèmes de drogue
J'ai vu les demoiselles en sevrage c'est terrible
J'ai vu la différence quand elle consommait elle fonctionnait normalement
Pourquoi elle continue pour aller mieux
Les nouvelles commencent avec agence
Quand elles connaissent la business deviennent indépendantes
C'est un sujet tabou
J'ai essayé d'aider plusieurs demoiselles rien à faire
Je sais que plusieurs escortes sont capable d'avoir une vie normale
Mon expérience personnelle plusieurs ne peuvent sen sortir

 

[Fradi]

Read my question again. If there was no stigma or abuse, why would you not want your child to be a sex worker? I'm not trying to convince you that you should say you'd love it if your child was.. let's reframe this. If you found out your child was a sex worker, wouldn't you want her working conditions to be good and for her to have respectful clients?

Also you haven't explained why you think you are using women you hire as sex workers.

That is a ridiculous question to ask because the answer is obvious of course you would want working conditions to be good and clients to be respectful.
Bottom line though no I would never want my children to be sex workers. It is one of the toughest, dangerous, professions, no parent should want that for their child.

You ask why I think I am using women.
To me sex is something that happens between two people that love each other, , share a life, that have a family, that have a commitment to each other.
Not something you pay someone half your age to do.

Yes while you are young you go through a period of casual sexual encounters , of experimenting, of having different partners different girlfriends but eventually to me it is about love and family and commitment not about how much money you have in your wallet and how many different escorts you can buy.

Even with SP I have a relationship, a friendship, women that I see for much more than just sex.

 

[Lunaseraphim]

Toujours le même débat entre agence versus indépendante
J'ai rencontré plusieurs travailleuses du sexe
indépendante avec de très sérieux problèmes de drogue
J'ai vu les demoiselles en sevrage c'est terrible
J'ai vu la différence quand elle consommait elle fonctionnait normalement
Pourquoi elle continue pour aller mieux
Les nouvelles commencent avec agence
Quand elles connaissent la business deviennent indépendantes
C'est un sujet tabou
J'ai essayé d'aider plusieurs demoiselles rien à faire
Je sais que plusieurs escortes sont capable d'avoir une vie normale
Mon expérience personnelle plusieurs ne peuvent sen sortir

Je pense personnellement que l'usage de drogue n'est pas un sujet hyper pertinent ici. Mais c'est vrai que j'ai entendu dire que à certains endroits les filles sont encouragées à consommer. La consommation est aussi répandue dans les lieux de travail comme les salons.. voici ma remarque : plusieurs consomment pour travailler et non l'inverse. Si le client n'en est pas témoin, ce n'est pas son problème si une fille consomme. Mais en même temps la consommation peut expliquer pourquoi certaines personnes tolèrent mieux la pression que d'autres

 

[Lunaseraphim]

That is a ridiculous question to ask because the answer is obvious of course you would want working conditions to be good and clients to be respectful.
Bottom line though no I would never want my children to be sex workers. It is one of the toughest, dangerous, professions, no parent should want that for their child.

You ask why I think I am using women.
To me sex is something that happens between two people that love each other, , share a life, that have a family, that have a commitment to each other.
Not something you pay someone half your age to do.

Yes while you are young you go through a period of casual sexual encounters , of experimenting, of having different partners different girlfriends but eventually to me it is about love and family and commitment not about how much money you have in your wallet and how many different escorts you can buy.

Even with SP I have a relationship, a friendship, women that I see for much more than just sex.

I also think sex is generally something that happens between two people who are in love but I still don't think my clients are using me. Unless they are. And I'm experienced enough at this point to understand when someone is trying to take advantage of me..

 

[Fradi]

I also think sex is generally something that happens between two people who are in love but I still don't think my clients are using me. Unless they are. And I'm experienced enough at this point to understand when someone is trying to take advantage of me

I am glad you have better clients now and feel that you are being respected and not used.
Every woman deserves to be loved and if not loved at least respected and treated with kindness.

 

[hob12]

That is a ridiculous question to ask because the answer is obvious of course you would want working conditions to be good and clients to be respectful.
Bottom line though no I would never want my children to be sex workers. It is one of the toughest, dangerous, professions, no parent should want that for their child.

You ask why I think I am using women.
To me sex is something that happens between two people that love each other, , share a life, that have a family, that have a commitment to each other.
Not something you pay someone half your age to do.

Yes while you are young you go through a period of casual sexual encounters , of experimenting, of having different partners different girlfriends but eventually to me it is about love and family and commitment not about how much money you have in your wallet and how many different escorts you can buy.

Even with SP I have a relationship, a friendship, women that I see for much more than just sex.

why are you partaking then?

 

[Lunaseraphim]

I am glad you have better clients now and feel that you are being respected and not used.
Every woman deserves to be loved and if not loved at least respected and treated with kindness.

I agree and this is why this discussion is so important. I don't think the point is to say "sex work is bad" or "all agencies have always been bad and always will be".

It's more "let's make sure we understand the worth of the service we are paying for, and how to treat a lady with respect". I think for instance knowing that a large percentage of a workers income is taken from them at agencies, clients can choose to tip. They can choose to be more lenient and gentle.