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Ontario Judge gives hope to Sex Workers and Clients in Canada

ShyMan

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Aug 3, 2016
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This judge is enlightened, brave and humane. god bless this judge

There is hope Merbites:

[FONT=&quot]In his written ruling, McKay said the law against profiting off the sale of someone else's sexual services goes too far. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The provisions are drafted so broadly that they expose sex workers who desire to work co-operatively with other sex workers to the risk of criminal liability, and employees in non-coercive, non-exploitative relationships with sex workers to criminal liability," he wrote. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"Legislation for which the stated purposes include eliminating exploitation and reducing the risk of violence to sex workers actually has the effect of exposing sex workers to an increased risk of exploitation by discouraging all third parties other than the criminal element from becoming involved in the sex industry. The provisions also increase the risk of violence by preventing or restricting the way in which many effective safety measures can be implemented by sex workers."

McKay also said the section of the Criminal Code that prohibits procuring the sexual services of others is overly broad. [/FONT]


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/lond...stitution-laws-are-unconstitutional-1.5471207
 

Halloween Mike

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Its a start...

But judges do not create laws they apply it.

We need politicians who understand and who are not afraid to aleniate some voters with said views/laws.

I do hope one day we get it but it may be far...
 

CLOUD 500

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We need politicians who understand and who are not afraid to aleniate some voters with said views/laws.

Yes you mean to alienate the social conservatives and feminists. That will take a politician with balls to do the right thing. Be lucky you do not live in the US, social conservatism as taken over the country.
 

bodick7

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That will take a politician with balls to do the right thing.

Since criminal code is federal, I’m not sure Justin has balls...
 

2fast2slow

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Jan 12, 2005
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Since criminal code is federal, I’m not sure Justin has balls...

he legallized cannabis under a lot of criticism...he held true. i think he is much stronger than he appears. Right now he does not look to good wiith the rail blocakades, i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt for now
 

curly

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Since criminal code is federal, I’m not sure Justin has balls...

Well, he's the one who legalized cannabis. That took balls. But he is in a minority government and the conservatives will oppose anything that loosens legislation.

Those who don't have balls are the conservatives who crafted and voted the current legislation. They had an opportunity with the previous supreme court decision, they decided to make things worst...
 

bodick7

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Well, he's the one who legalized cannabis. That took balls.

This has been done because of private interests in cannabis startups. It’s powerful how money can give balls.
 

Dave in Phoenix

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However, just as in the Bedford case, the courts all the way to the Supremes invalidated the old laws. C-36 seems to violate the safety of person provisions of the Charter of Rights just like the old law outlawed bawdy houses (incalls) and "living off the avails".

While the current win only applies in Ontario and does not address the buying of sex, the legal arguments are virtually the same to strike down all of C-36 regardless of what Parliament does. Most major Canadian cities police long ago announced they would not actively enforce C36 in most private consenting adult situations. Most LE realizes both the questionable constitutionality of the law as well as the increased risk to the community by the law.

Below is a comprehensive report I did compiled from various articles:
Canada Reconfirms Decriminalization = Safety
If only the US was as smart.

Once again a Canadian law against prostitution was found unconstitutional based on the "safety of person" in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms of the Canadian Constitution. While the case only involves advertising and an escort agencies income, the same arguments should apply to future cases involving right to purchase sex.

"Legislation for which the stated purposes include eliminating exploitation and reducing the risk of violence to sex workers actually has the effect of exposing sex workers to an increased risk of exploitation by discouraging all third parties other than the criminal element from becoming involved in the sex industry. The provisions also increase the risk of violence by preventing or restricting the way in which many effective safety measures can be implemented by sex workers."," saidJudge McKay in his decision.

Advertising, McKay wrote, allows sex workers to screen their clients before meeting them face-to-face, and helps create social networks to reduce isolation and stigma.

"The evidence, which I have accepted, suggests that sex workers view the ability to advertise as a communication tool which is more important to security and safety concerns than it is to promoting their economic interests," he wrote.

"Limiting the ability of sex workers to clearly communicate terms and conditions for their services and to effectively screen potential clientele will result in a significantly increased risk of serious injury or death."

McKay had before him thousands of pages of reports, testimony from several experts and case law.

Anti-sexwork folks say:
The Crown argued that sex work cannot be made safe and says the legislation is constitutional

"We're protecting pimps. Their Charter rights apparently supersede the rights of vulnerable girls and women," said John Cassells, an anti-human-trafficking specialist with the Christian mission organization SIM Canada. "This has to be appealed."

History
In 2013 the Ontario Supreme court in one of the longest, most thoughtful rulings declared the previous law against incalls (bawdy houses) and "living of the avails" was unconstitutional since violated the safety of persons. Outcall had always been legal. This was confirmed by the Supreme Court of Canada.

In 2014 the conservative government of Stephen Harper passed the "Nordic Model" law called C-36 that makes prostitution legal for the prostitute but illegal for customers. The new law criminalized the purchase of sex, and communication for that purpose. It also outlawed related advertising

Due to its questionable constitutionality and makes cities less safe, most major city police agencies refused to enforce the C-36 law since it would make their cities more dangerous if prostitution had to be hidden, not out in the open and treated like any legitimate business with full protections.

More conservative London Ontario charged the owner couple of an escort agency known as Fantasy World Escorts with violations of the new C-36 law. In Court the agency owners argued the new law made it even less safe for sex workers.

They also argued the law violated their freedom of expression and their right to be free from unreasonable government interference

Justice Thomas McKay ruled that the laws, which prohibit procuring, advertising and materially benefiting from someone else's sexual services, are unconstitutional. In his ruling, McKay said the law against advertising violates the Charter right to freedom of expression, and the laws against procuring and materially benefiting violate the Charter guarantee of "security of the person."

The judge found a wide variety of reasons that adults engage in sex work, with money a primary motivator. Many of them are self-employed or work independently much of the time, he found. While some third parties might be abusive partners or predators, most aren’t, McKay said. They do administration, offer training and support, and security, he said.

“Canadian research suggests that coercion and control of sex workers by third parties is not pervasive.”

The Ontario court decision applies only to this particular case, but does set an important precedent, said James Lockyer, a lawyer for Anwar and Harvey. "It's a very important precedent for other judges to consider when the same issue comes up, but it doesn't amount to a declaration across the country that these sections (of the Criminal Code) are void and of no effect," Lockyer said outside court. "Right now, it's a provincial court decision."

The Ontario Court of Appeal would have to uphold the ruling in order for laws to be nullified. The Crown has not said whether it will appeal the judgment. The case could wind up at the Supreme Court as in the prior case where the Supreme Court agreed with the lower courts that the prostitution law was unconstitutional based on the safety provision of the Charter of Rights, etc.

"On the one hand, this ruling was for my clients, because it means their charges are dismissed," Lockyer said. "But on the other hand, this judgment is very important for sex workers. It enables sex workers to have proper protection in their profession, they can set up their own co-operatives to protect each other, they can hire expert managers to make sure their business is run properly, and it allows them to get off the street, which is the most important thing, because that's where sex work is most dangerous."

Lockyer and Jack Gemmell, the couple's other lawyer, argued that Canada's 2014 prostitution laws drive sex work underground, making it more dangerous because clients can't be screened, and women can't legally hire protection or managers to help them run their business.

Canadian Comments terb.cc
This will definitely help combat trafficking by allowing girls a legit business and hobbyists legit options so they don’t need to rely on the shady black market. Similar to cannabis where people were forced to deal with drug dealers and who knows what kind of dirty impure unregulated cannabis.

This is a huge step toward eliminating corruption sparked by the government’s decision to violate fundamental human rights to choose what they want to do with their bodies as adults.
 

CLOUD 500

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Since criminal code is federal, I’m not sure Justin has balls...

Justin would commit political suicide if he were to legalize prostitution. He would loose the votes of the social conservatives, religious zealots, and feminists.
 

bodick7

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Justin would commit political suicide if he were to legalize prostitution. He would loose the votes of the social conservatives, religious zealots, and feminists.

Since a couple of months, he’s already in danger zone.
 

curly

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This has been done because of private interests in cannabis startups. It’s powerful how money can give balls.

Well, maybe someone should sell shares of a few bawdy houses to some conservatives interests to see If that would give them balls...
 

CLOUD 500

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Can someone tell me what good is going to come from this?

How is this system improved if legal in all respects? Does the government need to high-five you after you cum?

Isn’t there more downside risk than upside risk if c-36 is ruled unconstitutional, and there is another legislative re-write?

Help me understand the upside? Is there a great desire for brothels that would have a lot of ladies at the place at one time? That would seem to be a reduction in lifestyle choice for sex workers who now get to choose their working hours and conditions quite freely,

Lot of good for people like me. For one I want to see a lot more liberal extras stripclubs opening up everywhere and also the start of FKK clubs. I for one am not too interested in the purely business aspect of booking an escort off a website. You book one, she comes, it is all rush rush in the short time you got, no time to really chit chat, fuck pay, then bye bye. If all stripclubs were to close I would move to SA. Even MPs does not interest me. So yes legalization would change the whole game. No more will the city be able to shut down stripclubs for extras, nudity permits would once again be granted, rezoning permits for clubs that burnt down who want to rebuild would be granted. Bill C-36 destroyed whatever fun there was to be had at stripclubs.
 

ShyMan

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How does two (or more) consenting adults having sex (together) harm society or others. If a consenting adult sex worker engages in sexual activities with his/her client, how does that harm society. Why treat sex work any differently than any other type of work or profession. Why not allow sex workers to engage the services of professional managers to help run their businesses. Why marginalize sex workers and other professionals whom they employ when they don't harm society and others. Is sex dangerous to society. (These are rhetorical questions with real life consequences.) Sex workers and their clients need as much protection from the "law" as any one in society. We all pay for sex in one form or another.

SPs and agencies in Montreal are not getting wealthy or making a killing like Jeff Bezos. Perhaps they should for the tremendous services they have been providing. So why put an artificial dark cloud over them or shackle them. Like the classic American milk commercial said, "Got Milk": "Have Joyful Sex Everyone"
 

CLOUD 500

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How does two (or more) consenting adults having sex (together) harm society or others. If a consenting adult sex worker engages in sexual activities with his/her client, how does that harm society. Why treat sex work any differently than any other type of work or profession. Why not allow sex workers to engage the services of professional managers to help run their businesses. Why marginalize sex workers and other professionals whom they employ when they don't harm society and others. Is sex dangerous to society. (These are rhetorical questions with real life consequences.) Sex workers and their clients need as much protection from the "law" as any one in society. We all pay for sex in one form or another.

You can thank Christianity and the Bible for that. Because the bible says it is a sin. Sex between a man and a woman can only occur within marriage and prostitutes serve to break up marriages. You should read it there is a section and verses dedicated to prostitution and it paints escorts as evil. Many Americans are hardcore Christian fanatics and in general they are prudes. Society does not want it or accept it. To add the conservatives are in denial that girls choose to work as escorts so they infantile them and say they are either being sexually exploited or got a mental dysfunction. They in essence created a victimless crime.

The right-wing conservatives are too concerned with morality and how people act when they should be focusing their efforts on the destructive effect of Neoliberalism and the constant exploitation by the greedy corporations and the rich of the working class. But the rich getting richer off the poor and middle class is welcomed by the conservatives. Weird thinking.
 

CLOUD 500

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Patron,

You post interesting points. In case you have not noticed we are living in the decade of the rise of right-wing conservatism. Everywhere in the world you see social conservatism taking over. Brexit in the UK and Quebec has shifted big time to the right, the mayor of Amsterdam now wants to bring all sex workers indoors and in a designated areas. The mayor of Amsterdam also wants to ban all tours of the red light district. How can these establishments thrive if politicians are constantly enforcing social prohibition and social conservatism? They are trying to make it hostile.

Some girls are doing escorting as there is just not much place for them. Think about it. In Montreal in the past 5 years so many stripclubs shut down. Where are all those strippers to work? They can either enter MP or work as escorts. MPs are also getting some heat. If MPs goes down too then the only thing left for these girls is to work as escorts. Girls that escort would never strip because it is so different. Stripping is a social job, she has to get nude in front of so many guys, talk to strangers and entice them to buy dances. An escort just posts an ad and waits to get calls. She gets nude one on one and gets very physical. Girls who remain as strippers is because they do not want to have sex with strangers at large. So I find it hard to compare in the way you did.
 

Bred Sob

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Everywhere in the world you see social conservatism taking over. Brexit in the UK and Quebec has shifted big time to the right, the mayor of Amsterdam now wants to bring all sex workers indoors and in a designated areas. The mayor of Amsterdam also wants to ban all tours of the red light district. How can these establishments thrive if politicians are constantly enforcing social prohibition and social conservatism?

I know, Comrade Kropotkin, that as a faithful adept of anarcho-communism, facts don't matter to you at all, but I suppose some people may still be curious about them. Fact: the mayor of Amsterdam Femke Halsema is a leftist politician. Fact: as an MP (member of parliament, that is), she was a proponent of making prostitution legal in the Netherlands (the position you seem to enthusiastically welcome, assuming any of your posts are meant to be taken at all seriously) and as a mayor she still is. Fact: no one except you is talking about bringing all sex workers in the Amsterdam RLD indoors, only some of them.

Your point that social conservatism is the root of all evil is especially well-argued today, congratulations!
 

CLOUD 500

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Jan 10, 2005
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Patron,

You are right feminists are as much of a problem for prostitution. As for Bernie, I personally do not think any politician wants to touch the area of prostitution, doing so would be political suicide. Only thing that will be popular and gain votes is to prohibit prostitution more as it will be welcomed by social conservatives and feminists. But this hobby is far less risky and better in Europe then the US for sure. Canada is only good in Ontario and Quebec.
 
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