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Osama bin Laden is DEAD!!!

Doc Holliday

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At first i figured capturing Bin Laden would have been better since they could have questionned (a.k.a. tortured) him in order to get more intelligence about future terrorist attacks.

However, i came to realize that a dead Bin Laden is likely safer & less problematic than a Bin Laden who's alive.

Osama Bin Laden had become a near-pariah among the arab world. Al-Quaeda has been pretty much useless since he disappeared & went into hiding. Even more useless now with many arab countries' governments being toppled by their own citizens.

Capturing Bin Laden & having him in custody would only have brought up his popularity once again among the arab world & be used to justify many of their respective anti-american causes.

Bin Laden was actually an ennemy to Islam & the arab world. Muslims around the world (and especially in the West) have been scrutinized & looked upon with disdain since Bin Laden & Al-Quaeda came into prominence following the Sept 2011 events.

What is astonishing is that 90% of Al-Quaeda's victims around the world were muslims. Yet, many look at him as a hero. Unbelievable!
 
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StefanoUS

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What is astonishing is that 90% of Al-Quaeda's victims around the world were muslims. Yet, many look at him as a hero. Unbelievable!

Doc,

I've been astonished for years! A year before his death, Malcolm X became an orthodox Sunni Muslim following a pilgrimage to Mecca. He was assassinated by members of the Nation of Islam on February 14, 1965.
 

Merlot

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Merlot,

Thank you for the kind words. I wasn't talking about a wing of a political party ... I said liberals. But maybe you define liberals as a political party. I don't know how to create a link so I've cut and pasted some news articles for you:

MIT Professor emeritus and author Noam Chomsky believes the killing of bin Laden, a “planned assassination,” violates multiple international laws.

Judge Andrew Napolitano will make the case on radio tonight that the assassination of Osama bin Laden was an illegal act. And he’s not alone.

Rep. Dan Lungren, Calif., asked whether the bin Laden mission might have been illegal if it was aided by legally questionable interrogation techniques of prisoners at CIA sites around the globe.

So is my statement about liberals questioning the legality still absolute idiotic BULLSHIT?

Cheers,

StefanoUS

Well StefanoUS,

Your connection to any of these men actually being "Liberals" is.

Thanks for clarifying who you mean by "Liberals", which in the usual common parlance most often means Democrats or anyone who doesn't agree with Conservatives. I take it you meant the general philosophy, which doesn't work at all in your references anyway.

Links, all I was looking for was the url source copy of any evidence, like those I provided below.

First you misled about Judge Andrew Napolitano. He is a Libertarian Conservative defined as combining Conservative small government and Libertarian emphasis on "individual freedom" (keeping government influence out as much as possible. In 1975, Ronald Reagan stated, "I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism". Napolitano also works as a political can legal analyst for Fox News. IE...can it get more ANTI-LIBERAL than that.

Then by saying "Liberals are now saying that it was illegal to kill Bin Laden" you made a precise reference that the illegality was about the killing of the man, when on the video link here of Napolitano expressing exactly the real reference you mentioned, he was referring to the theoretical illegality of one nation crossing the borders of another sovereign nation to carry out attacks in it's territory.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/judg...-host-osama-bin-laden-was-illegally-murdered/

Noam Chomsky calls himself a Libertarian Socialist, which believes "the exercise of power in any institutionalized form—whether economic, political, religious, or sexual—brutalizes both the wielder of power and the one over whom it is exercised." Since “big government”and use of government to solve economic, political, religious, or sexual issues has been generally and closely associated with Liberals, justly or unjustly, Noam Chomsky is definitely a serious misfit anywhere near a “Liberal” label.

And for any guy like him who still believes there is no real proof to the fact that Osama Bin laden was director of 911...I would say that definitely puts him out on the extreme “fringe” I mentioned...even possibly among his own LIBERTARIANS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noam_chomsky

Your reference to Rep. Dan Lungren, R-Calif as a Liberal may be the worst characterization of the three yet. He just happens to be one of the very few Republicans representing of all states...California. His father was a close friend of Richard Nixon (Republican of Watergate infamy), and Dan Lungren was a co-founder of the Conservative Opportunity Society as well as having been one of Newt Gingrich’s (Conservative pinup idol) “chief Lieutenants”.

On top of his core Conservative philosophies and associations, again, his objection to the killing of Osama was not about killing the man, but based on how the information was gained to proceed through the use of torture...the real point of his contention.

Ironically, it was in response to Lungren, Eric Holder who worked for President Bill Clinton as U. S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, and is currently the Attorney General of the United States chosen by President Obama, your best shot at finding a Liberal, said this past Tuesday “that the killing of Osama bin Laden marks historic progress by the U.S. government in protecting the American people from terrorism.” It seems this Liberal approves.

Even to be kind, I’d have to say that identifying any of the three men as a “Liberal” was as wrong, as was your representation of what any of them actually said.

Get your facts Merlot and don't just read storylines !
You forgot a lot about history !

Besides Al-Quaeda is an ideology to kill as many innocent people as possible !

LOL...I can assure you my certified credentials would supersede yours on matters of history by light years.

What I find most disturbing about many people, maybe the most disturbing thing, is that in being repulsed by insane terror and perverse inhumanity that degrades human lives into worthless disposable entities, they allow themselves to justify the same tactics as the beasts they despise.

BTW...Al Qaeda’s ideology is about breaking from the West to form a pure Islamic theocratic orthodox autocracy. Killing innocent people is a tactic.

What is astonishing is that 90% of Al-Quaeda's victims around the world were muslims. Yet, many look at him as a hero. Unbelievable!

It proves how much anger and hate against the West already existed, and how well the terrorists have made their propaganda work to excuse their tactics among many, but not all, Muslims.

Regarding the killing, any capture of Bin laden might have put the U.S. in the insane position of providing it's justice system to the world's leading terrorist with all inherent rights, and involved all the complications of national and world politics.

Doc,

I've been astonished for years! A year before his death, Malcolm X became an orthodox Sunni Muslim following a pilgrimage to Mecca. He was assassinated by members of the Nation of Islam on February 14, 1965.

True, but the assassination might have been more about the challenge to the personal supremacy of Elijah Muhammad among Blacks, rather than doctrinal differences.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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Mod 8

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Hello Dee,

In case you are confused, this is MERB you are posting on. When addressing a post to another member, or referring to another member in a post, we expect everyone to use the correct handle and not the bastardized merc version of it. In reference to your post, I would think it is safe to assume that most board members have seen pornography or have collections of their own. I see no reason for you to direct your post at any specific member other than to start a flame war. If you intend to remain here I would advise you to drop the smart-ass attitude and follow MERB rules regarding respect to other members. Merc style behavior is not acceptable here.

This is your one and only warning. Any repet of this behavior will result in a permanent ban.


Mod 8
 
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Dee

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Sorry Mod 8 I had honestly intended to spell it merlot here. Hard to believe but true. Sorry.

99 per cent here would appreciate that most of us have porn and it was a joke and not suggesting porn part anything negative about One member.

Would you think it in order to moderate Merlot's intemperate and juvenile post?

Thanks.
 

Mod 8

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Hello Dee,

You know very well the connotations of your post in relation to accusations made in the past on your favorite posting ground. Playing innocent will not cut it with me. Do not bother replying to me in this thread as I will not allow it to be taken off topic by your foolish attempt. If you have anything to add, do it by PM. Any further off topic posts in this thread will be removed and result in a suspension.

Mod 8
 

StefanoUS

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Well StefanoUS,

Thanks for clarifying who you mean by "Liberals", which in the usual common parlance most often means Democrats or anyone who doesn't agree with Conservatives. I take it you meant the general philosophy, which doesn't work at all in your references anyway.

Professor Merlot,

I don't have the strength to reply to all of your comments. However, Napolitano did appear on FOX News debating the legality of killing Bin Laden. I don't think that was misleading at all. What's become obvious is that you are offended by my "liberal" characterizations. So be it. You have your opinion and I have mine. I can site and spin as many references as you. :)


True, but the assassination might have been more about the challenge to the personal supremacy of Elijah Muhammad among Blacks, rather than doctrinal differences.

Cheers,

Merlot

Astonishing nonetheless! ... it really doesn't matter what the reason was for the assassination. Muslims killing other Muslims for power was my point.
 

JH Fan

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At first i figured capturing Bin Laden would have been better since they could have questionned (a.k.a. tortured) him in order to get more intelligence about future terrorist attacks.

However, i came to realize that a dead Bin Laden is likely safer & less problematic than a Bin Laden who's alive.

Osama Bin Laden had become a near-pariah among the arab world. Al-Quaeda has been pretty much useless since he disappeared & went into hiding. Even more useless now with many arab countries' governments being toppled by their own citizens.

Capturing Bin Laden & having him in custody would only have brought up his popularity once again among the arab world & be used to justify many of their respective anti-american causes.

Bin Laden was actually an ennemy to Islam & the arab world. Muslims around the world (and especially in the West) have been scrutinized & looked upon with disdain since Bin Laden & Al-Quaeda came into prominence following the Sept 2011 events.

What is astonishing is that 90% of Al-Quaeda's victims around the world were muslims. Yet, many look at him as a hero. Unbelievable!

Again like DD you're forgetting one small item.
Al-Quaeda doesn't have roots only in the Muslim world.

And as astonishing it can gets... Many in the west look at Bush being a Hero too :)
Despite the 4K + killed in action to hang one guy !
Even at his lowest rating still more than 75 Millions of Americans believed he did a good job !

Incredible isn't it ?
 

JH Fan

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LOL...I can assure you my certified credentials would supersede yours on matters of history by light years.

What I find most disturbing about many people, maybe the most disturbing thing, is that in being repulsed by insane terror and perverse inhumanity that degrades human lives into worthless disposable entities, they allow themselves to justify the same tactics as the beasts they despise.

BTW...Al Qaeda’s ideology is about breaking from the West to form a pure Islamic theocratic orthodox autocracy. Killing innocent people is a tactic.

Cheers,

Merlot

Oh Wow ! lets kill Americans to form a pure Islamic theocratic orthodox autocracy !
I'm sure if we hijack some planes to crash them on New-York and Washington and... put bombs in England, Spain, etc... that America and all these people will leave us alone and free to have our 'pure Islamic theocratic orthodox autocracy'...

Yeah ! what a tactic ! the world superpower will surely leave us alone after we blow up the Pentagon !

Duh ! Get Serious Merlot !

But anyway since you know so much... I won't point out the essential and major argument that I am talking about since the beginning in using Nuke !

It's the threat of using it !

Only a dumb*ass would believe that using NUke on civilians would have fixed anything !
But since the biggest (and by far) damage that Al-Quaeda can do is psychological, the real way to handle it was psychological !

So have fun with your credentials and tell me how many Nuke tests America did ?
Then compare with all the other Nuke nations combined.

You think one more would have made a difference ?

As for Lemay you forgot one thing the next sick f*ck who followed Kennedy used Lemay's theory to end Vietnam.
 

daydreamer41

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Again like DD you're forgetting one small item.
Al-Quaeda doesn't have roots only in the Muslim world.

And as astonishing it can gets... Many in the west look at Bush being a Hero too :)
Despite the 4K + killed in action to hang one guy !
Even at his lowest rating still more than 75 Millions of Americans believed he did a good job !

Incredible isn't it ?

Say what? Where else does Al Queda have roots? I can't wait to hear this one.
 

JH Fan

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Say what? Where else does Al Queda have roots? I can't wait to hear this one.

Mujahideens fighting Soviets out of AFGH. They got very powerful and they wanted to expand their power.
Al-Qaeda was originaly only one of many organizations for this purpose.

This islamist thing is the excuse.
Just like killing Jews became the excuse for the Nazis.

It is not the roots and it is not the real purpose !

When you want to create something that will last you get with the big ones !
When you want to expand your power and get famous you go against the big ones !


If you believe this Islamist sh*t then you're as brainwashed as the poor dumb bastards who blow themselves up in the name of this !
 

daydreamer41

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Mujahideens fighting Soviets out of AFGH. They got very powerful and they wanted to expand their power.
Al-Qaeda was originaly only one of many organizations for this purpose.

This islamist thing is the excuse.
Just like killing Jews became the excuse for the Nazis.

It is not the roots and it is not the real purpose !

When you want to create something that will last you get with the big ones !
When you want to expand your power and get famous you go against the big ones !


If you believe this Islamist sh*t then you're as brainwashed as the poor dumb bastards who blow themselves up in the name of this !

????????????????????

Mujahideens are MUSLIM. Your post makes no sense. You said that Al Queda has other roots other than Islam. I ask like what? And you name an Islamic group. The rest of your post needs intense decoding from a telepathic gypsy, but they probably would't bother because I suspect it won't make any sense.
 

Merlot

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????????????????????

Mujahideens are MUSLIM. Your post makes no sense. You said that Al Queda has other roots other than Islam. I ask like what? And you name an Islamic group. The rest of your post needs intense decoding from a telepathic gypsy, but they probably would't bother because I suspect it won't make any sense.

Daydreamer,

I've have read, seen, and heard so much over my lifetime and have never come across the phrase "telepathic gypsy". WOW! I love it.

You and I understand that "Muslims" and "Islam" is not a location, or an ethnic variety, or a race. Anyone can be the first and thus become part of the second. JHF doesn't seem to understand that. Maybe he means that the root of terrorism really has nothing to do with Islam, but that is a reach in trying to make allowances for he might mean, but does not have any clear point.

JHF, there's no one sentence in your post #155 that shows you even know what point you are trying to make, so I won't even bother to deal with it, much less quote it. You are rambling badly. If English isn't your first language I'm not trying knock you down for it, but your writing is not communicating whatever you are trying to say.

Professor Merlot,

I don't have the strength to reply to all of your comments. However, Napolitano did appear on FOX News debating the legality of killing Bin Laden. I don't think that was misleading at all. What's become obvious is that you are offended by my "liberal" characterizations. So be it. You have your opinion and I have mine. I can site and spin as many references as you.

I'm not sure if you just don't want to deal with all the reading or are coping out so you don't have to, but you said you were naming Liberals and you named NONE. You said they were disputing the legality of killing Bin Laden, but their real dispute was usually violation of territorial sovereignty...all documented for you, so it cannot possibly be...spin...another cop out.

Astonishing nonetheless! ... it really doesn't matter what the reason was for the assassination. Muslims killing other Muslims for power was my point.

Yes, I agree. It proves that in any religion no matter how some like Elijah Muhammad say they are devoted to principles they still care about self-enrichment and power more.

NOTE: In the eagerness many have had to vicariously enjoy the killing of Bin Laden through lurid details and photos or video, or exploit the episode for political enrichment, they have forgotten the sacrifice of SEAL TEAM 6. Yes, these men chose this military life and it was their duty to carry out orders. But their action and courage in going after and eliminating the most notorious terrorist in the world made them and their families marked potential terrorist targets for life. As general Clark said, we were promised absolute security and it lasted "one day".

Thanks to selfish people like Massachusetts Republican Senator Scott Brown, and many others who couldn't wait to put out information to enrich themselves by showing off how they were in the highest inner circle who saw the photos and video, and were informed of the details of the operation, the lives of SEAL TEAM 6 and their entire families are now at greater risk.

These men fulfilled a Presidential pledge by risking their lives for their country and it's honor, while eliminating the most dangerous terrorist in the world, and they are paid back with betrayal by their own people and representatives.

SHAME!

Merlot
 
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JH Fan

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Daydreamer,

I've have read, seen, and heard so much over my lifetime and have never come across the phrase "telepathic gypsy". WOW! I love it.

You and I understand that "Muslims" and "Islam" is not a location, or an ethnic variety, or a race. Anyone can be the first and thus become part of the second. JHF doesn't seem to understand that. Maybe he means that the root of terrorism really has nothing to do with Islam, but that is a reach in trying to make allowances for what makes no sense.

JHF, there's no one sentence in your post #155 that shows you even know what point you are trying to make, so I won't even bother to deal with it, much less quote it. You are rambling badly. If English isn't your first language I'm not trying knock you down for it, but your writing is not communicating whatever you are trying to say.

Merlot

Integrity Merlot ?

Seriously ! you guys make me laugh when you think the roots of something only comes from one of them. You read my post and didn't carry on to research some more.

Where are you credentials Merlot on History ?

ROOTS (there's an s in the end if you can't read english) and...
I'm not surprised that you still think that I think Islam has nothing to do with it.

If I was to think like you I would believe that freedom has roots only in America.

AL-Quaeda comes from the Mujahideen expansion of power followed by USA on Saudi soil to fight against IRAQ to name only a few of the reasons why it was created.

The mujahideen found military and financial support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, the United Kingdom, Pakistan, Egypt, China and other nations. The Afghan war became a proxy war in the broader context of the late Cold War.

It was a conflict involving the Soviet Union, supporting the Marxist-Leninist government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.

When the Soviet Army was forced to withdraw in 1989, a power vacuum was created.

Mujahideen factions fought against each other for power. With the discontinuation of Western support, they resorted ever more to poppy cultivation to finance their military existence.

So one of the deep roots of Al-Quaeda has nothing to do about a pure Islamic theocratic orthodox autocracy.

It has deeper roots than what you gobbled up watching CNN of FOX.

So now if you still think today in 2011 that only muslims are still financing AL-Quaeda then go ahead and believe it.

Maybe you don't understand what's good for the goose is good for the gander ?
It's an english expression Merlot ! Not french or arabic !

BTW Elvis is still alive.
 

daydreamer41

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Integrity Merlot ?

Seriously ! you guys make me laugh when you think the roots of something only comes from one of them. You read my post and didn't carry on to research some more.

Where are you credentials Merlot on History ?

ROOTS (there's an s in the end if you can't read english) and...
I'm not surprised that you still think that I think Islam has nothing to do with it.

If I was to think like you I would believe that freedom has roots only in America.

AL-Quaeda comes from the Mujahideen expansion of power followed by USA on Saudi soil to fight against IRAQ to name only a few of the reasons why it was created.

The mujahideen found military and financial support from a variety of sources including the United States, Saudi Arabia, the United Kingdom, Pakistan, Egypt, China and other nations. The Afghan war became a proxy war in the broader context of the late Cold War.

It was a conflict involving the Soviet Union, supporting the Marxist-Leninist government of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan.

When the Soviet Army was forced to withdraw in 1989, a power vacuum was created.

Mujahideen factions fought against each other for power. With the discontinuation of Western support, they resorted ever more to poppy cultivation to finance their military existence.

So one of the deep roots of Al-Quaeda has nothing to do about a pure Islamic theocratic orthodox autocracy.

It has deeper roots than what you gobbled up watching CNN of FOX.

So now if you still think today in 2011 that only muslims are still financing AL-Quaeda then go ahead and believe it.

Maybe you don't understand what's good for the goose is good for the gander ?
It's an english expression Merlot ! Not french or arabic !

BTW Elvis is still alive.

Wow, JH, you use so many words to say so little that makes sense.

I have one question. Are you Professor Irwin Corey?

You don't have to admit it. I don't want you to out yourself, but I am just guessing. I am guessing when I read your posts, also.


http://www.irwincorey.org/
 

daydreamer41

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If CIA did not created these terrorist group, we did not have these problem now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1qlB61mmFg&feature=relmfu

Clavie, the subject of the video you put up is the US joining the war in Libyia. The subject being interviewed made an off the cuff comment that the CIA created Al Queda, without any facts or references to back up that wild claim. Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist. He thinks that the Federal Reserve, the Bildenberg Group, the US Congress, President, and other western governments are involved in a conspiracy to form a one world government and currency. He is pretty far out of the mainstream.
 

CLAVIE

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Clavie, the subject of the video you put up is the US joining the war in Libyia. The subject being interviewed made an off the cuff comment that the CIA created Al Queda, without any facts or references to back up that wild claim. Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist. He thinks that the Federal Reserve, the Bildenberg Group, the US Congress, President, and other western governments are involved in a conspiracy to form a one world government and currency. He is pretty far out of the mainstream.

What do you think these same terrorist was been the freedom fighter for USA ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGm-4MRuGF0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh2sVcuPk1Q&feature=related
 
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daydreamer41

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Fine. The target of the US's first involvement in Afghanistan was to facilitate the fall of the Soviet Union. That succeeded. However, the US did misread the goals of the Afghan rebels who were Taliban. Their goal was to get rid of all outside influences, whether it was the Soviets or the US.

But the US did not start this movement. Iran was already in Revolution in the late 70s. Brezinski was under Carter, not Reagan. Reagan did continue the support of the Afghan freedom fighters. Wahhabi Islam started in the 18th Century. It is the foundation for what is happening in the Middle East.
 
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