Please post of you have been harrased by police

[Dr Edgar Who]

Probably just as well, since most advice I see on this topic is usually plain wrong or even dangerous.

Here's some real, detailed advice. It's for the USA, but generally applies in Canada too.

BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

Flex Your Rights channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights

Prof. Duane's great lecture about self-incrimination:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Hello Kepler,

Great links!!!

Last one was just plain entertaining.

Anything equivalent in Canada/Quebec?

Also, some questions (maybe these have been treated in other threads) :

In Montreal, do I have to provide ID to a police officer if they ask for it?

If you are in a motel room and the police knock on the door, what rights do I
have... I assume it is just like my home, that I can "not consent for them to search
the room". Is there any way they have the right to a search?

If so, anything I should know? Example : should an SP and client share real names if the police knock on the door? Also : I personally never do drugs so I would never have any on me but can I get in trouble if the girl has some in her possession?

Thanks!

 

[Dr Edgar Who]

Also, some questions (maybe these have been treated in other threads)

I am sure this has been discussed before...

Wouldn't it be worthwhile having a sticky concerning legal issues?

 

[ocean]

Hi Edgar that is why I am trying to get a lawyer to post , and maybe have Stella post here.

As I have said so many times before discuss all the means the police use to entrap , then device strategies against it. Yes the flexyourrights video on youtube is an excellent way to deter against the police..... it did help in my case. When the officer flagged me down the first thing he said to me was so what were you doing fucking, BJing what were you being offered, I KEPT MY MOUTH SHUT.

The cop tried to intimidate me by flashing his lights on me. ( the high beam spotlight on their cars. I still kept my cool and said nothing).

Anyhow before we can make this into a sticky, I need to have lawyer info (via post or PM), and I need to have more info before I can go up to the moderator and say Mr. Mod please make this into a sticky I need some good reasons, otherwise I cannot ask .

So as always please keep this debate alive and scour your resources for stories/help etc.

 

[naughtylady]

Thanks Naughtylady . I think they modified the law before it was just stopping a vehicle .
Now its something stupid like, if you apply the brakes on your car to look in the direction of a hooker and whistle, you are guilty of a crime by the church of the SPVM.

Anyway , Naughtylady can you please give us some stories of your encounter with police?

BTW if there are other SP's on this board, you can generally describe your stories and events.

I already PM'd Stella, I would love for them to get involved in the conversation.

I also think that if a lawyer on this board could either PM me or post here would be helpful to teh merb community overall.

Anyhow I think I have made some good inroads here, I have revealed a lot of police tactics and some detterence tips. WIth a little luck a lawyer and Stella can get involved.

The vehicle stuff is the crime of interfering with the flow of traffic.


Personally I never had any encounters with the police with regards to sex work.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[Kepler]

In Montreal, do I have to provide ID to a police officer if they ask for it?

If you're driving a car you must provide a license. If you're a passenger, or pedestrian, it's less clear. Technically you wouldn't have to, but (big but!) the police can use all sorts of pressure tactics on you. One case went to the Supreme Court in the USA recently and the guy lost (1). It really depends on how much you like to "fight the system".

If you are in a motel room and the police knock on the door, what rights do I have... I assume it is just like my home, that I can "not consent for them to search the room". Is there any way they have the right to a search?

Always refuse the search verbally, but never oppose physical resistance. They need a warrant in general, but sometimes don't (eg: "emergency situations", like if a neighbor says he heard screaming next door; or "plain view", like if they see drugs when you open the door; etc.) Your lawyer can argue about this in court if you refused the search.

If so, anything I should know? Example : should an SP and client share real names if the police knock on the door? Also : I personally never do drugs so I would never have any on me but can I get in trouble if the girl has some in her possession?

If you both remain completely silent until your lawyers get there, you will be much better off. Why exchange real names? So that you can give an "explanation" to the police about how she's your friend? WRONG! You should not be explaining anything. You should be silent! (sorry to be blunt, it's for your protection)


PS, to Ocean: Expecting a lawyer to comment "officially" in here is almost futile. Almost none will be willing to do so due to professional liability issues.


(1): http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2004/02/62438 and http://newsmine.org/content.php?ol=security/bigbrother/supreme-court-backs-police-on-showing-ID.txt

 

[Dr Edgar Who]

If you both remain completely silent until your lawyers get there, you will be much better off. Why exchange real names? So that you can give an "explanation" to the police about how she's your friend? WRONG! You should not be explaining anything. You should be silent! (sorry to be blunt, it's for your protection)

Thanks Kepler,

Question : okay, we should say nothing but when you say "until your lawyers get there" you mean lawyers provided by the state? I don't have a lawyer. Only times I have hired a lawyer was to purchase a dwelling and write a will, I don't have a lawyer and most young SPs don't either I assume...

I can certainly keep my mouth shut but I don't have a lawyer to call...

 

[Dr Edgar Who]

Always refuse the search verbally, but never oppose physical resistance. They need a warrant in general, but sometimes don't (eg: "emergency situations", like if a neighbor says he heard screaming next door; or "plain view", like if they see drugs when you open the door; etc.) Your lawyer can argue about this in court if you refused the search.

So, let's run through a scenario all MERBites must dread...

Knock on the door, It's the police, they want you to open the door.

What is the best course of action?

I would politely ask the police to wait while I get dressed.

I would dress, ask my companion to dress, put things quickly out of view
(the only items in view would be a bottle of wine anyway) then go to open
the door and try to keep them from entering after I opened it without "physically
resisting". I was thinking that it might be a good idea to call the front desk and
have someone from the staff come to stand outside the room and be a second
witness to everything that happened. Is that a good idea?

 

[Kepler]

Question : okay, we should say nothing but when you say "until your lawyers get there" you mean lawyers provided by the state?

Here's a scenario: Say "I have no statements to make. If I'm not under arrest I wish to leave right now. If I'm under arrest, I wish to call legal aid." The police will provide you with the phone number. Legal aid takes it from there. Later on you will have time to look up a crim.lawyer in the yellow pages, etc.

Knock on the door, It's the police, they want you to open the door. What is the best course of action?

Very difficult to provide general advice here because it depends soooo much on the specific circumstances.

I would try this: Say 'Is this an order or a request? If it's a request I refuse and ask you to leave. I have no statements to make. If it's an order I am complying but make note that it is against my will.' Then open the door, keep your hands in view, oppose no physical resistance at all, and follow the scenario in the paragraph above.

 

[ocean]

PS, to Ocean: Expecting a lawyer to comment "officially" in here is almost futile. Almost none will be willing to do so due to professional liability issues.

This is true that a lawyer canot engage in a client relationship without charging you..........but it is not illegal gfor them to give legal information or their personal non-legal opinion.

 

[naughtylady]

Stella has a legal clinic for sex workers.
To get the lawyer's number, call Stella.
The information provided during the clinic is free. If you decide to hire a lawyer there is a fee.
I do not know if hobbiests are welcome at the legal clinic; call and ask. 514-285-8889

You might also want to try calling Clinique Droits Devants. 514-603-0265.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[ocean]

I do not know if hobbiests are welcome at the legal clinic;

I am pretty sure that they are not, but if a lawyer wants to comment on this board or one that specializes in this area, MAYBE WANTS TO ADVERTISE HIS SERVICES ON MERB , THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO ALL.

 

[naughtylady]

I am pretty sure that they are not, but if a lawyer wants to comment on this board or one that specializes in this area, MAYBE WANTS TO ADVERTISE HIS SERVICES ON MERB , THAT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL TO ALL.

Don't be so sure... did you call them and ask?

I once brought (my now EX) boyfriend to their medical clinic... no problems getting him tested for STIs there.

Also did you call Clinique Droits Devants?



Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[CaptRenault]

Here's some real, detailed advice. It's for the USA, but generally applies in Canada too.

BUSTED: The Citizen's Guide to Surviving Police Encounters:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

Flex Your Rights channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/FlexYourRights

Prof. Duane's great lecture about self-incrimination:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Since Canadian police are increasingly imitating their American bretheren by running prostitution stings (just Goggle Canada prostitution sting and you'll see numerous stories of stings), here is a timely story about Prof. James Duane's advice to NEVER talk to the police. Luckily I have never had to use Prof. Duane's advice, but given the current state of hysteria about prostitution in both Canada and the U.S. I think his advice is very useful.

Event: You Have the Right to Remain Innocent
By Jonathan Blanks
cato.org
9/26/2016

The police are supposed to protect and serve the public. Most police procedural dramas on television–perennially among the most popular shows for decades–paint a picture of officers working diligently and honestly to catch the bad guys. Many children are taught that police officers are among the most trusted members of the community and that there is no need to fear them. But is that how police work in real life?
Not exactly.

Police officers are trained to extract information from people whether or not they are criminal suspects. Indeed, one of the more common tricks officers use is getting people to give up the right to refuse a search of their person or property. With consent, police officers can rummage through your pockets and cars–or even your homes–looking for a reason to arrest you.
For this reason, talking to police when you don’t have to is often a bad idea. So many of the wrongfully convicted people in this country didn’t exercise their right to be silent and were put away because they didn’t think they had anything to hide. How wrong they were.

On Thursday, Cato is hosting an event with Prof. James Duane, the law professor whose lecture to NEVER talk to the police went viral. He’s here to discuss his book on self-incrimination and the criminal justice system, You Have the Right to Remain Innocent. The book is engaging, informative, and easy to read. Cato adjunct Randy Barnett of Georgetown University Law Center will be commenting on the book and it will be moderated by our own Tim Lynch.

Copies of the book will be sold at the event. You can register for the free event and lunch here. You can join the discussion online using the Twitter hashtag #6ARights.

 

[hungry101]

That was worth listening to.

 

[duetoday]

The best way to avoid trouble with LE is to obey the law. Prostitution is legal in Canada so just stay within what's permitted. (see numerous other threads)

If you are forced to interact with police, remember that lying to the police can itself be a crime! So never lie to them. But you do not have to talk to them. In fact, you should not talk to them. You should just say "I invoke my right to remain silent. If I am under arrest I request immediate consultation with my lawyer. If I'm not under arrest I want to end this conversation and leave right now."

Cut, paste, print out, place in your wallet, and don't deviate from it.

Just one more important advice: You don't have to identify yourself if you are not at the wheel of a vehicule on a public road OR arrested and charged with a crime...So if you are driving on public road yes you have to supply driver licence and all...but in other situations, like being passenger ,simply walking into a room or out of one or walking down the street or else: Ask politely "officer am i under arrest and being charged with a crime" If not simply say thank you and walk away. An officer who answer something like I don't know yet or it depends on your answer....Simply ask again the same question...may be you will have to tell him to call the departement legal adviser or the person in charge to confirm it because he is contesting your rights. If he arrest you and charge you with a bogus offense tell him you will only identify yourself at the station. Once there call a lawyer if you have to and file a complaint against this idiot. In Canada we have rights ....still anyway. And remember you stating your name date of birth and adress is sufficient...no ID card needed....still.

By the way,once one is acquitted of charges get them to destroy the file and the fingerprints...They are NOT allowed to keep them.

 

[lady_lover]

By the way,once one is acquitted of charges get them to destroy the file and the fingerprints...They are NOT allowed to keep them.

I had a lawyer friend tell me this is automatic and required by law. Is this not the case?

 

[ocean]

God I forgot about this.

The fiche signalethique I believe now has to be deleted by law. But you have to ask a judge to destroy the police report.... I believe.
To be safe, I would ask a judge to order both. If a judge oes not send a letter to teh police asking thme to destroy the fiche and the police report.

PS I forgot about this thread.

 

[hungry101]

Something just happened to a friend of a family matter. After a night of drinking a young man woke up naked with a girl that he picked up at the bar. They were both very intoxicated. She asked him if they had sex. He said I don't know we were both naked. He drove her home. The next day the police called him in and asked him to make a statement. He is not guilty and is on his way to the interview. I had my family member forward CaptRenaults's video to this guy. He pulled over and watched the video. He called the police and said "I will come in with my lawyer." The detective told him "you're making a big mistake." I don't think so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkZf6_jK3Zs

Please Merbites. Watch Capt's video.

 

[Mtdl]

Just one more important advice: You don't have to identify yourself if you are not at the wheel of a vehicule on a public road OR arrested and charged with a crime...So if you are driving on public road yes you have to supply driver licence and all...but in other situations, like being passenger ,simply walking into a room or out of one or walking down the street or else: Ask politely "officer am i under arrest and being charged with a crime" If not simply say thank you and walk away. An officer who answer something like I don't know yet or it depends on your answer....Simply ask again the same question...may be you will have to tell him to call the departement legal adviser or the person in charge to confirm it because he is contesting your rights. If he arrest you and charge you with a bogus offense tell him you will only identify yourself at the station. Once there call a lawyer if you have to and file a complaint against this idiot. In Canada we have rights ....still anyway. And remember you stating your name date of birth and adress is sufficient...no ID card needed....still.

By the way,once one is acquitted of charges get them to destroy the file and the fingerprints...They are NOT allowed to keep them.

While all of this might be true, it will only get you in trouble. Other than feeling good about yourself for being tough with a police officer, unless you're wanted for something, you're probably better off giving the police your ID. They'll check it quick and you'll be on your way. Even if you're simply a passenger, while you do have the right to refuse from identifying yourself, the officer could just pretend you weren't wearing your seatbelt or whatever and that he needed your ID to write the ticket. Trying to scare the officer by telling him you want to see his supervisor will only get him to use all his power against you (so to speak) and give you a bunch of ticket or whatever to annoy you.

An ID card is always preferable if you have one on you. The officer won't have any doubt about your identify. I agree about statements, don't give one no matter what or only something vague like you were seeing friends or something. Being polite and charismatic will usually get you out of trouble, unless it's something really serious.

 

[Aflac Duck]

I had this loud mouth ( black ) jerk cop come up to me on foot and give me shit for not having my flashers on to turn left. The intersection was blocked by construction and there was only one direction to go left. I just listened an nodded my head and he kept talking for 4-5 minutes. A woman cop even came up behind him to back him up, but seeing that I was not any trouble and the cop was being a jerk she just went away. I let him talk himself out until he had nothing to say. He just said, OK, you can go.

Never let them provoke you into a reaction.