Poll: GFE Service Standard

[Holdmedown]

Definition of GFE (Clinton Vs. Chretien)

Simple: GFE = Girlfriend Experience

My Girlfriends (of which there are a few...) have always

- provided
- kissed DFK
- enjoyed / allowed deep sea diving into the clams
- always allowed for more shots on goal than even Jose Theodore !!

Now if you ask my buddy Bill... his definitions may vary...!!

IMHO

 

[Jackie]

Robin,

Have you ever had a real life gf who covered you before giving you a bj ?

If you have then I must retract my position.

Good point, there aren`t many real girlfriends that will insist on you wearing a condom for a blow job.

However, I have heard many many men complaint about their girlfriends not giving them blow jobs period! I know of two personally (long term aquaintances) that have never done so for their boyfriends/husband, they think it`s just nasty and gross...

That`s why I find it comical that GFE now means open services when the reality is that many `girlfriends` are less than satisfactory in the sex department, lol!

Now if you ask me what your term of GFE/open services should include:

- , LFK, DATY, possibility of MSOG

What about the SP staying the whole hour, doesn`t that factor in? I would think that an SP cutting an appointment short would cut into the service aspect as well of grading services. Just a thought.

Getting GFE services from an SP of course necessitates the client on his end to be:
- Nice and respectful
- Clean (showered, breath, etc)

My two cents,

Jackie
P.S. If the term is chosen to define open services instead of attitude and personal interaction. Why not change it from ``girlfriend experience`` to ``great fu***ng experience``?! It seems much more fitting!

 

[Holdmedown]

Cid - Lol!

That's hilarious...

Actually he CIM - but he's a big man and monica couldn't hold the load - which then led to CID...

 

[StripperLover]

Train,

My responses are not in any way subjective, as I read your post alluding to.

My preferences are not how I chose to vote, I don`t perform (for the most part) DATY on SP`s but I do believe that it should be included & have voted so. As far as your reference of pertaining to the meal I am missing the correlation, pls expand !

As far as your preference(s) to the HDH side of the market, rules should be based on the broadest minimums & seeing as most don`t partake in the HDH market & as a result don`t avail themselves with a 2nd hour, a MSOG more times than not doesn`t come into play.

It`s my opinion about MSOG`s (and I voted this way), but that being said, I`m not as stringent on this as I am on the other 3 GFE Services being an absolute,

DFK - NOT LFK, as no real life gf doesn`t provide DFK

DATY - No real life gf doesn`t allow DATY

- NOT CBJ, as no real life gf covers you for a bj (cimtc is another story)

 

[Holdmedown]

Jackie

You have 2 friends that don't provide BJs? How sad...

I'd bet money that their BF's/husbands do indeed get BJ's - probably from other sources... no man will do without BJ's.

Imagine the sense of rejection they must feel... CIM is a whole other story.

 

[fsfiend]

Funny

Funny chat, a lot of good points and a lot of bad ones.
My stance:

(1) GFE cannot possibly be used by any escort agency to imply an intimate connection. That’s obvious fraud because even half an idiot can sense when someone is into them or not. If your ugly and/or smell and/or are overweight / hairy in the wrong spots then just be f`n glad that there are hot young girls who will have sex with you for such a paltry amount of money!!! Their cut is most likely less than $100 after their fees and you are violating them...if they don`t ``feel you,`` then just deal with it. In the upper class society there are people getting much more an hour to sit at a desk and sip coffee and give ideas on matters. Now we have guys voting that agencies should have some guarantee of personal attraction if they post GFE? Coooommmoonnnn. The reality is YMMV should be and is variable no matter what. This includes special services like DATY DFK. So ya that is a major joke when I saw GFE on some agency sites and all it served was to arouse suspicion and make me look elsewhere. Where there`s a rat in the barn.......

It’s a special privilege if an SP allows DATY or DFK not something agencies should be pressured into guaranteeing. This pressure just transfers to the SP`s looking to maximize appointments. It’s all this crap that soils what could potentially be a half-safe industry.

As you can see I actually agree with EagerBeaver that agencies are making far-fetched claims and this is insulting. However I strongly object if his hope is to start the wheels in motion for agencies to eventually adopt a rigid sense of guarantees. This is not WallMart folks! You are paying for an intimate moment with a stranger who is also a person. Agencies should just can this whole GFE/YMMV/PSE classification scheme. Protected intercourse is a given and everything else should be up to the girl in the moment. DATY/DFK/DIGITS/ spread disease. If I`m sucking on SP muff I`d like to have the sense that she has at least some standards and that I got lucky. If some guy that looked like an obvious junky or a million other scenarios I could think of...you expect her to feel bound to some guarantee of service?

I would hate the idea of getting with a girl who came packaged with some kind of guarantee of performing unsafe sex such as DATY/!!!

Like I`ve been discussing in other posts, because of this very issue I avoid and DATY with SP`s. Yet for those of you who like it, you just have to accept that if you want it you have to convince the girl in the moment that she should (if that takes money then good for her or if she`s hot for you then good for you).

P.S. If you want a girlfriend experience....get a girlfriend...get bored of her...get a new one....to ugly to get a girl as good as some of the okay looking escorts....suck it up. At least your not living in Iraq right now e.c.t.

 

[Jackie]

You have 2 friends that don`t provide BJs? How sad...

I`d bet money that their BF`s/husbands do indeed get BJ`s - probably from other sources... no man will do without BJ`s.

Imagine the sense of rejection they must feel... CIM is a whole other story.

I wholeheartedly agree that a gf not giving head at all is very sad and extremelly unfortunate for her companion. They are wonderful women in other ways but sexually very reserved and conservative (lights out, missionary and maybe cowgirl once in a blue moon, not in the mood often or ever, etc).

I`m sure you know the type I`m talking about and it`s not uncommon, especially outside of the province of Quebec Both the women I know who are like this were married by their longterm bfs and are still together today. I know for a fact that one is getting his needs fulfilled elsewhere, he had the nerve to approach me! (She has been my friend for over 20 years, the pig...)

Anyways, I just think the term girlfriend is too subjective for describing sexual services. That`s my opinion of course and obviously many share a different one.

When working, I heard stories about my client`s girlfriends endlessly and it was always the same story. Not happy with sex life, too conservative, never wants to, etc. That`s why I think it`s hilarious that clients decided to use the term to describe great services, so many complained about the crappy sex they were getting from their girlfriends!!!

Just an observation from my perspective.


Regarding LFK vs. DFK

I think expecting DFK to certify an SP GFE services in your terms is asking a bit much IMO. Kissing until a few years ago (5-6 years) was in no way standard practice in any appointment. It`s been a long time ``general`` rule for escorts not to kiss their clients because it`s too personal.

A few started to change the trend and included as part of their GFE service (original definition) because it was very much in demand and some were comfortable to offer the service including myself. However, it is the most ``demanding`` service for an SP to provide. It`s so much more intimate than an BJ and FS and hard to just come up with the chemistry for someone you haven`t met before.

Try to think of it this way, would you be able to kiss someone that you didn`t really want to, and then do it well while making sure you look into what you are doing?

For those reasons I strongly feel that DFK being necessary to identify an SP as being GFE by your terms to be asking a bit much. LFK yes.

Also, IMO to qualify for DFK service you must:
1. Have impeccable oral hygiene
2. Be a decent kisser

I`ve encountered many clients that hadn`t taken care of #1, then get pissed at me for not wanting to kiss with tongue! Excuse me! If you didn`t reek, there wouldn`t be a problem.

Problems with #2 also came up very often... I tried to do my best and understand that people enjoy different styles of kissing but it`s amazing how many men are just bad kissers. This is a more frustrating problem for an SP to deal with as it`s not a hygiene issue but it`s still grossing you out. You can`t say it to the client without hurting his feelings and killing the mood for the rest of the appointment...

LFK would be a much more reasonable expectation IMO, more is great but shouldn`t be required.

My take:
Required
- DATY - LFK - available MSOG if time permits (5 minutes left doesn`t count)

Bonuses
DFK - TC/CIM/CIMWS - ANAL - DT

Jackie

 

[EagerBeaver]

Jackie,

I have met non GFE service escorts with whom I had better sex than some of the women I have dated. What it comes down to is that some women are more passionate and sexual than others. I think generally women who work as SPs are a bit more comfortable with sex. Sometimes as guys we are attracted to a woman and there is chemistry as far as personalities meshing, but in bed there is disappointment. And the disappointment sometimes needs to be rectified.

 

[fsfiend]

Thanks Jackie

I enjoyed hearing a perspective on this important issue from an SP.

Her comment about DFK coming into demand and subsequently metamorphosing into an industry standard validates one of my points. The clients have the money and they ultimately fuel the industry. Thus they have this kind of power.

Keep in mind though guys....as the saying goes...be careful or you just might get what you want!

I wonder how many drop-dead gorgeous escorts got turned off the whole business because guys were calling in and demanding only girls that sucked their tongues. Or even worse giving attitude when a girl on site refuses. When you force standards for service you force standards for the types of girls the industry will attract.

By the way I liked all you guys/gals who brought up the crapy sex from gf issue. I never thought of it that way (I have really intimate sex of all types with my girl.....although she doesn`t want to do it as often as me and that can be frustrating). When she`s on her rag I ask for and usually get it even when she`s not in the mood with a little whimpering. Its hard to cum with just a bj though so in this case I recommend a good porn while she`s sucking you......sorry side tracking...I have too much time on my hands during holidays.

Jackie: I`m surprised you consider a mandatory activity!! I`m learning a lot on MERB!!! If I was an SP (and a female) I couldn`t see myself exposing myself to such a high HSV-II risk for less than $50,000 a pop. This is the whole pressure thing I`m talking about. I think you gals are selling yourselves short!

Me I can`t cum with a cbj so I usually just tell the sp to skip right to the main event and always seem to enjoy myself. If this ruins the mood...couldn`t care less. I don`t need to feel an intimate connection to have a good orgasm thrusting my guy in a hot little piece of ass. I love SP`s !!!

 

[Jackie]

Jackie: I`m surprised you consider a mandatory activity!! I`m learning a lot on MERB!!! If I was an SP (and a female) I couldn`t see myself exposing myself to such a high HSV-II risk for less than $50,000 a pop. This is the whole pressure thing I`m talking about. I think you gals are selling yourselves short!

I never said that was a mandatory activity, I was saying it should be included in a ``GFE/open service`` definition as this is what this thread is about. I certainly do not feel in any way that it is a requisite to escorting in general.

Concerning risk: Yes there is are risks, no doubt about it. What is the actual level of risk when engaging in frequent , still remarkably quite low. Higher risks are: HIV (extremelly extremelly rare, I think only one case reported thus far and I`m not sure it has been 100% proven out) Hep C is pretty much the same, Hepatitis B (if vaccinated not a concern. anyone participating in this hobby should have this done). More common risks are gonorrhea, clamydia and herpes. First two are easily remedied, the latter more easily prevented but unfortunately uncurable. These are not negligeable risks, but as statistics show and along with my personal experience they are in fact low.

My personal record: 8-9 years escorting, majoritarily GFE services, always GFE attitude. I can safely say that over those years I have surely given well over 1000 `s, most likely double that if not more. In all my escorting career, I never once caught an STD. Have been tested many times and still always perfectly clear on all fronts. It is impressive and certainly part of it does involve luck.

Her comment about DFK coming into demand and subsequently metamorphosing into an industry standard validates one of my points. The clients have the money and they ultimately fuel the industry. Thus they have this kind of power.

The phenomenon in Montreal is a unique and I believe a regional issue. From my beginnings in this industry a good 11-12 years ago, was a standard request from both customer and agency owners (at least everyone I ever worked for). Some insisted more than others but it was very clear that this was a somewhat expected included service, or at the very least a small extra. Choosing to not perform this service resulted in: much more coaxing and convicing by the agency, loss of bookings and many client refusals. If you wanted to make money, you pretty much had to go with the flow or else accept much lower income.

In western Canada and the U.S., isn`t as common of a practice and not expected in the proportions that it is around here. Why it is expected here more than anywhere else, I have no clue. But it is an unfortunate reality.

The only time it will change is: because more and more unprotected oral sex continues and propagates on many levels (inside and outside this hobby), more STD outbreaks related to this practice will emerge. Only then will people be scared enough to make oral sex protection a necessity.

Jackie

 

[HonestAbe]

Overwhelming majority

Over 80% so far say DATY and are musts with slightly less overwhelming majorities for LFK or DFK and MSOG. I think there is a clear standard here. I`m surprised that it is so overwhelming. I guess we must all be crazy.

As to the 15 votes for ``acronyms are irrelevant``, I wonder if that means they DON`T want , DATY, MSOG, LFK or DFK, or ,would they be happy to accept those services in addition to the ``GFE`` attitude they say is more important to them? I would tend to think the best of both worlds would be preferable, am I wrong?

 

[Regular Guy]

However, it is the most "demanding" service for an SP to provide. It's so much more intimate than an BJ and FS and hard to just come up with the chemistry for someone you haven't met before.

Try to think of it this way, would you be able to kiss someone that you didn't really want to, and then do it well while making sure you look into what you are doing?

Jackie, you have confirmed an important point in this debate. Sp's are human and need to be attracted to someone in order to give of themselves. And of course this is YMMV. A lot of guys truly want and need the affection that goes with lovemaking. They are validated by the responsiveness of the lady. If a client and an sp click I assume she will enjoy her time: easy money and enjoying the work and be responsive. Now I am going to go out on a limb and say that some sp's do like men and generally enjoy the work. However you can only push human nature so far. And as you say some factors are turn-offs. On the other hand some sp's are indifferent or actually have no use for men for example if they are pure lesbian, totally narcissistic or just plain b_t__es. They like the money and any way they can shortchange the client they will. The posts here are full of that stuff. These girls can create a disappointing and miserable experience. How does one reconcile these two extremes when a client experiences one then subsequently the other. It is my belief that having been burned some guys are finding these definitions an excellent way to get this problem under control. However is it realistic? Well you have entered the debate and are giving us all a reality check. So where does that leave us? It's hard to blame the guys who want to make love. Otherwise why not just buy a date you can let the air out of at the end. There just is no substitute for passion. It's great to see, however, that you do try and to be quite honest I don't feel a bit sorry for guys who don't take care of hygiene. It is not enough to pay for an sp. She should be asked for GFE only if he provides BFE.

As for the STD issue fsfiend and I have debated this on another thread and quite frankly because of the complexities and free will I feel it is unresolvable. I am with you on your take on this one.

Perhaps it is all about trial and error. The wise client will try various sp's and along the way using personal experience and reviews here will patronize only the girls who have left him feeling on top of the world. If he seeks variety then he is taking the risk. It would be nice to get the girls who don't belong, out of the hobby or if they are experiencing burnout, some time out. How realistic is this? I honestly don't know to what degree. Market forces work here as well as elsewhere. But we might consider an additional point. Perhaps also with smaller client groups which will result through being more selective within the community the STd risk can further be reduced. Hopefully our buddy fsfiend will feel a bit more at ease then lol.

 

[ChuckMtl]

When we'll all agree with the "standard" of GFE, should we do the same kind of poll with "PSE", or is it too wide?

ChuckMtl.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Chuck,

We can do a poll on PSE at some point, since that is also a term that is being used in agency marketing and should be defined.

 

[StripperLover]

Train,

I must disagree with you as I think that performing DATY on an SP is not advisable & most times I don't (I'm weak & I love p..y) partake but nonetheless I voted in favour of the option which includes it as I believe that is what a real life gf allows & thus so should a GFE. As a result, I voted against my personal preference.

 

[EagerBeaver]

M5,

Thanks.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Here is a link to the Saint Bart definition of GFE, posted on the TBD Boston Board in 2003:

http://www.bigdoggie.net/messageboards/boston/msgs/posts/52281.html