Prostitution debate videos

[Net Profit Margin]

^ gugu let me ask you two very simple questions:

As fas as their safety goes, are the sexworkers better off with 210, 212 and 213 than they will soon be with C36?

While 210, 212 and 213 were being challenged in court, did you at any given point in time believe that a bunch of conservatives in Ottawa would eventually legalize prostitution like, say, in Germany?

 

[gugu]

Meet Belinda Brooks Gordon,psychologist, author of The Price of sex. On BBC's Moral Maze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoUf-8C1PXs

NPM: 1 A bit safer, a bit poorer 2 No.

 

[Merlot]

Hello all,

Put aside for a moment that the subjects are almost entirely women, the big argument for everyone seems to focus on the question of exploitation of workers by bosses and being trapped to one degree or another in the industry. As I was listening to Ms or Mme Gordon, and in the past from listening to many others, it's funny how if you take out the specific subject of women and sex the conditions and fears and arguments being described sound so much like very other civil rights crusade where people fight to control their own choices and destiny, except that in this case the great moral prudishness over sex is covering up what the real fight is about.

So, in conclusion, all these debates supposed to bring safer working conditions led to C-36? Judging from the results, it would be fair to say that some of the talking heads who support the decriminalization agenda should have kept their mouths shut. Like the old adage goes: don't fix it if it ain't broke.

So you are blaming the sex workers coming out to fight for safety and recognition of legal and natural human rights for creating a situation that may make hobbying more difficult? To me that's backwards, like blaming Blacks for fighting against "Separate but Equal" social segregation when they had legally defined rights but in fact were and easily exploited and abused second class of citizens, as in be happy with as much as you've got but don't muck things up by trying to get full equality and make it hard for everyone else too. It's like saying I've got mine so don't make it bad for me by trying to get yours. Kind of selfish isn't it?

Do you really think nothing was broken? Maybe if you were more on the risk side of the business and faced the troubles escorts deal with first hand you would not seem unable to relate to the problems escorts live out every day.

We have serious concerns that this legislation fails to comply with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the requirements outlined by the Supreme Court of Canada in the Bedford decision. We are also concerned that this legislation fails to adequately protect the health and safety of vulnerable people, particularly women.[/I]

The Bedford decision and C-36 contrasts sounds so similar to the 14th and 15th Amendments and Plessy v. Ferguson, at least in the basic principles and twists granting rights then creating a situation where those rights can be legally abused. Of course the details are very different but the essence is generally the same.

Mods- please excuse the thread mixing. It's the same subject really.

 

[gugu]

Well, this may be a bit more controversial. She's a heroin addict. But then, just listen to her and ask yourself the questions:

1Is she a victim now? I'm not talking about her past.

2 Is she able to take her decisions by herself, an able person?

3 Should society force it's decisions on her?

You may not answer those questions about heroin addict sex workers after seeing the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=novF7orC8cM

 

[gugu]

Le documentaire Putain c'est pas simple diffusé sur France 2 avant hier. On y revoit encore Sonia Verstappen, Gabrielle Partenza et Morgane Merteuil. Pour une une fois une psychanalyste, Sophie Cadalen, qui dit des choses compréhensibles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqbcaLurXGI

 

[gugu]

There is a big debate in India presently, a country with around 130 sex workers organizations, after the chair of the National Commission for Women came out in favor of decriminalization of sex work. Here she is making her point in a televised debate. India's legislation is comparable to UK's and Canada' before the new law.

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/we...ution-give-more-dignity-to-sex-workers/345884

 

[gugu]

New prostitution law explained:

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...w-prostitution-law-explained-with-lego-video/

 

[gugu]

Thanks for posting KRS. I had seen both videos. I don't always take the time to post. Nice to have contributions!

I will once again digress a bit with a nice video, Institutions of Higher Indoctrination, featuring Janice Fiamengo, one of the clearest minds on feminism today. And she's Canadian. It relates to the prostitution directly on the ground of victimisation, the central tenant of both radfem and prohbitonnism.

 

[gugu]

Sujet plus sérieux et scientifique, la retransmission audio, et en partie video, du colloque BORDERLINE, LES ÉCONOMIES DU SEXE : PORNOGRAPHIE ET PROSTITUTION tenu à Paris le 12 décembre dernier. L'avantage, pour plusieurs: tout est en français. Des invités d'une qualité exceptionnelle, ce que la France compte de meilleur sur le sujet de la prostitution, notamment Lllian Mathieu, le "père" de la sociologie moderne française de la prostitution, Janine Mozus Lavau, Ruwen Ogien et Catherine Deschamps de même que des chercheurs plus jeunes qui ont pas mal de terrain derrière la cravate. Témoignage aussi de Guy Parent, ancien chef de la Brigade de répression du proxénitisme. On active les fichiers audio en cliquant sur les flèches vertes. Un délice!

http://plus.franceculture.fr/borderline-les-economies-du-sexe-pornographie-et-prostitution

 

[gugu]

Intelligent assessment of public policies on prostitution are becoming a more common thing these last years. Here's a quite good panel held in Vienna last december.

If you like Laura Agustine I have no doubt you'll appreciate Julia O’Connell Davidson starting at 17:30. If you're just there for a treat please listen to Sietske Altink at 58"25, giving a superb presentation on the Netherlands approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3f-OSKzywng

 

[gugu]

"In May 2013, Monica Jones, a student and LGBT activist at Arizona State University, was arrested for “manifesting prostitution.” Monica said she just accepted an undercover officer's offer of a ride home from her favorite bar. Monica is among the tens of thousands of people arrested every year for prostitution-related offenses. According to the FBI, police arrested over 57,000 people on such charges in 2011. The vast majority were women."

Great visual https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-dU9R3tME0

 

[gugu]

Meet escort and activist Kristen DiAngelo. She was an actor in American Courtisans. The sex workers movement have pretty articulate representatives (including now retired from Montéal Stella, Émilie Laliberté)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47h4-5g2oL0

 

[gugu]

C'est rare qu'on voit des présentations télé grand public bien informées sur la prostitution. Alors, il faut les souligner quand ils passent. On en apprend sur l'Espagne (pas très bon), la Chine (excellent), la Suisse (très Suisse, inspiré d'un pragmatisme allemand) et la Royaume-Uni (by a jolly good fellow) Sur I télé. À 11 min. 50 du video.

 

[gugu]

The prostitution debate was back at the Oxford Union a few days ago. Here is Catherine Stephens, long time UK advocate for sex work.

''The thousands of clients I've seen […] have without exception treated my consent with far greater respect then this intellectually backrupt distortion of feminism''

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sn-7UxbwVo

 

[gugu]

An interesting short documentary about prostitution in Saarland, a German border region with France. The journalist is not complaisant with neither side of the debate, including two policemen with opposing views.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdaEePsLIc0

 

[gugu]

Je dédie celui-ci à mes deux amis Pat98 et oobe

Ce qui m'a le plus sidéré dans le débat sur la prostitution en France, c'est l'océan qui sépare la position dogmatique de la position pratique.

Serge Coronado (EELV) est devenu l'homme politique français le plus articulé, le mieux informé et le plus cohérent de tous. Il est dans ce video au sommet de sa forme.

Et puis il y a un médecin de Médecins du Monde qui a l'air d'un agneau au tout début, mais qui finit par exprimer toute la colère de son organisation.

C'est bon tout le long, mais si vous ne voulez pas tout écouter, les six dernières minutes valent le coup si ce n'est que pour voir la gueule que fait le médecin quand il entend deux abolos nous asséner les pires leçons morales. La France est un pays des extrêmes dans la pensée. Elle souffre de ses innombrables polarisations.

http://www.lcp.fr/emissions/ca-vous-regarde/274460-ca-vous-regarde

 

[pat98]

Merci Gugu pour la dédicace et ce débat vidéo fort intéressant !

Quelques commentaires sur les participants :

- Charles de Courson:
Cela démontre bien la "déconnexion" complète du politique avec le terrain de la part de ce député...
Pathétique... Mal articulé... Je n'en revenais pas... ont été mes premières impressions...
(et je vais m'abstenir de commenter plus tellement ce type est clairement un criss de vieux con lol).
À 63 ans, il serait bien que la France mettent en "retraite" ce genre de politicien dans un village Disneyland taillés pour eux !

- Sergio Coronado, lui aussi député (écologiste) par contre plus jeune
(et j'espère qu'il ne virera pas vieux con comme l'autre tarla) bien mieux nuancé, documenté et connaissant. Et surtout comprenant les vrais enjeux.

- Hélène de Rugy représentant l'Amicale du Nid : abolitioniste avec un évident discours de terrain, c'est clair elle connait mais moins bien articulé et toute en contradiction.
Le best: son association a été créée par un prêtre ...
Bonjour l"objectivité même si il est bien certain que cette association est évidemment laïque de nos jours (bien forcé lol)
un lien qui donne bien son point de vue : http://madame.lefigaro.fr/societe/prostitution-labolition-question-060712-268936

- Jean-François Corty de Médeçins du monde: Enfin un acteur, vrai avec du terrain qui sait de quoi il parle, je suis d'accord avec toi Gugu la dernière partie du débat à été vraiment pénible pour lui avec l'arrivée de cet #$%#$ de Courson qui a totalement ramené le tout à la préhistoire !

Maintenant par rapport à cette pénalisation qui va être très certainement voté ... J'ai honte de mes racines françaises mais ce n'est pas vraiment nouveau et ce n'est pas pour rien si je suis maintenant fiérement Canadien-Français lol
On verra à l'usage mais c'est clair que tout comme la Suède, cela n'ira pas bien loin !
Les pimps et autres réseaux de traite en Europe sont encore tranquille en terre de navarre...
Pathétique ...

PS: J'ai bien aimé au final le présentateur, un poil racoleur mais pas trop, juste ce qu'il fallait et clairement lui aussi documenté !

 

[josie1987]

That’s a very fun video. Especially when he talks about these men who beg him to diagnose them as sex addicts to have an excuse for cheating on their wives. It’s not unlike women like Tanja Rahm who blame her clients for her own life decisions. Now that we live in a free society, it seems no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. I did the test he talks about and, surprisingly, I don’t even score as a sex addict.

Tiens, tiens, cela me fait penser à quelqu'un...

Ah et... c'est un thread très très intéressant qui nous concerne tous ...

 

[gugu]

Meet Toni Mac at Tedx Talk. One of the most convincing talk for the general public I have ever seen on
sex work policies around the the world.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJRBx0JjM_M

 

[CaptRenault]

Meet Toni Mac at Tedx Talk. One of the most convincing talk for the general public I have ever seen on
sex work policies around the the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJRBx0JjM_M

Gugu, thanks for that link. I had never heard of her before. She is a great speaker and gave a great talk. I have never heard anyone make the argument for decriminalization of sex work so intelligently and concisely.

I would love to see her debate anyone who has an opposing viewpoint (such as an anti-prostitution religious conservative or feminist). I think she would destroy them.

Also, I think she is very attractive and her obvious intelligence adds to her attractiveness.