Race/Ethinicity Question

[Maria Divina]

Maria,

I don't think you answered my question which was did I correctly observe at the XO party several black men and other visible minorities all having a good time? Or was I seeing things?

I really did not understand your question, you are right ound:

Yes we were a bunch of people having different origins including myself, don't forget :yo:


Another tiny detail I would like to add: Each time I studied in Montreal in all my formations, over all those years (I have 10 years of schooling after high school from my 20ies to my 40ies, yes multi diplomas in "my string's rear pocket", we always been a bunch of people with different origins, and we were able to talk simultuously in minimum 2 languages -French & English- and we are all getting along so very well.

In general in life, people are just plain good dudes, with my observation. But it takes just the rare one bad apple to cross your path to scarce you for the rest of your life.
And I know that you are one person very well positioned to understand that. :kiss:

 

[DouMan]

First of all, rbrown1000 I really feel for you if this experience hurt you. It is never pleasant to feel rejected in any way, shape or form. As already mentioned by many distinguished members for the moment all seems to be based on assumptions.

This being said, holly gees, so much uproar because we insert the name "racism" in the text. Don't get me wrong folks and start hanging me out to dry. I personally am totally against any form of racism having been implicated in the tribulations of such since my young age, keeping in mind that racism is not only based on colour.

Come on, the dude got turned away for reason xyz, what's the big freaking deal.

As members what do WE do and post?

WE post comments on our experiences, our recommendations and let's be honest … sometimes in a very crude, not to say disgusting way in some cases which are in turn read by hundreds and even thousands of people in some cases. What seems to have happened in this case was between 2 people for whatever reason.

But it's ok for US to do it and fairy dust fills our perfect egos because we don't refer to the dreaded "r" word. No WE call it "appreciation" … much better and certainly people aren't hurt by an "appreciation", naw.

Just for the fun of it try re-looking at this thread with a members' "appreciation" perspective, ruling out the "r" factor.

WE have our preferences and in some cases WE have even refused a lady at the door. But it's ok for US, she did not fit our "appreciation" and WE are the ones who pay.

I don't know the agency and even less the lady in question but for me she is allowed to HER "appreciation". It's her body and SHE has every right to decide who will make her pussy purr even if WE pay.

 

[jonathankeeves]

I am brown. I have seen almost every XO girl and Sam has never told me about any XO girl who would refuse me because of my race. Also, my origins are not from here.


Initially when I started hobbying, I always used to ask the booker (if it was an agency) if the girl will be comfortable as I am brown. Never did any booker say that a girl will be uncomfortable.


Gradually, I stopped asking once I realized that I had never faced rejection, even though sometimes my experience was always not 10/10, but it could be any xyz reason, not necessarily my race.


Also, one important thing I have noticed is, if you are clean, respectful and kind, you will get the best experience no matter your race or how you look.


There have been two indies who I wanted to meet, but there ads clearly suggested that they are not comfortable with brown.
Obviously it was sad to see that, but I respect their restrictions. If someone doesn't want to see you because of your race, move on there are plenty of amazing options out there.

But I am pretty sure, the sp in question can not be an XO girl.
I have always confirmed with Sam before my booking about this and he has never mentioned to me any such thing.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Jonathan,

I find your posts on this matter to be compelling and credible. Until I hear from Sam on this thread, my feeling is this thread is an unproven assumption and quite possibly a case of miscommunication if in fact this incident occurred as reported. I mean I saw black guys at the XO party and they were having a great time. I seriously doubt Sam would have hired local black actors to fool everyone including his girls into thinking that they were having a good time. In fact that party, of agency parties I have been to, had a greater representation of minorities than any other agency party I can remember, with the arguable exception of the 2007 Eleganza party which had a strong contingent of Asian clients but no black clients (or escorts) to my memory at that agency. Whereas this agency has both. So pardon my skepticism in regards to this thread but it's partly based on facts I am personally aware of. And cannot ignore.

 

[EagerBeaver]

This should be simple.
Her body, her choice, don't like it, move on.

That's the bottom line. Even assuming for purpose of argument that this went down as reported and the reason was racism as assumed and not something else, the sole beef the OP has is in not knowing he would not be serviced and wasting his time. However jonathankeeves has spoken eloquently on this issue and by using the JK approach the OP might have had a different communication result. Good communication always helps and it isn't a 1 way street to discuss such issues and avoid possible but unlikely scenarios.

 

[rbrown1000]

Yes I did know I was refused because of race. No one in Montreal is going to say that to your face.Please read the questions she put in front of me. May be you are immune to it.
I understand no one want to be called a racist nor xenophobe and that's why I have not disclosed the identity of the provider.I just shared my experience so that people like me can be careful.

 

[rbrown1000]

Those are definitely legit reasons EB..drunk, stoned, just plain mean looking, ressemblance of a relative, dirty, dirty hands, smelly, rough, too direct, not polite, just plain akward, too shy, visually mentally unstable etc...we've heard them all from time to time again.(and any reason including any above, any others..or even if the girl simply changed her mind.. do not warrant any justification or reasoning, no is no. [But if its a general restriction such as a specific race then i do feel it should be mentioned to all in advance] )
Hey this isn't a restaurant, a product, a standard service industry..there are no ethical guidelines or norms, its case by case and 1 on 1.
And you are right, many of this agency in questions girls do not have these race standards in bold print and do see men of any skin tone, the owner is not white..and furthermore, if contacted with any dilemma or problems with service, he will do the necessary to ensure all implicated individuals are taken care of..(in fact i hope the thread starter took the time to voice his concerns with the agency before sharing any of this)

P.s rbrown1000, if i understood correctly you are not from montreal?
There are in fact many places that probably deserve to be called out and don't do things in a respectful manner..
But in the case of many merb advertisers, you have the advantage of being able to actually speak to them, or about them and voice your concerns.
In many cases they will do whatever it takes to make up for mishaps, mistakes and the occasional unsatisfied customer..
That is the privilege of having access to this community and the people that choose to advertise here. That leaves you with a responsibility to use the correct channels before calling foul play, or using the site to vent and possibly tarnish a good reputation.

First of all thanks for the all the comments good and bad. Let me see if I can address all the issues here.



I am not a drinker , never smoke (of any kind) decent looking with athletic build. When I went there wore a pair of jeans ,a full sleeve shirt and a blazer like any one who goes to office on a casual friday.
I understand any women offering this service has to be protective and careful but she told me "did I inform that I was local" and repeatedly asked me where I am from after I was ready to leave.

I can understand if some one does not want to see a person because of race.(its definitely not my loss). my question was is it a good idea to disclose it to avoid wasting time and effort.

Again I could call SAM and complain but is it worth it. I started this conversation to find out how guys have reacted to this before and just learn ways to avoid it.

 

[rbrown1000]

I don`t think I have seen a girl description on XO website excluding a specific race, but if some girls don't feel comfortable with a specific race may be XO management should mention it in the girl description. Waste of time for both the client and the SP (if she has to kick him out after he shows up). And a waste of money for the girl and the agency.

My point exactly .

 

[rbrown1000]

I am not white and all of my recent rdv's have been with XO girls. The reason I keep repeating with XO girls is because bookings are easy to do with both Sam and Max, they have the best incall and above all I always get amazing experience everytime I see an XO girl.

I have booked with xxxstatse before but my first time with XO .Booking was easy and comfortable so I did not suspect anything. May be she was having a bad day.

 

[VictoriaJolie]

Yes I did know I was refused because of race. No one in Montreal is going to say that to your face.Please read the questions she put in front of me. May be you are immune to it.
I understand no one want to be called a racist nor xenophobe and that's why I have not disclosed the identity of the provider.I just shared my experience so that people like me can be careful.

To answer your question:Yes you should disclose your ethnicity/race

Why?To avoid the kind of scénario you just described.Obviously if you wrote about the issue it's because it bothered you and i am sure it felt awkward and not so great for self-esteem same when an sp get turn down.Independents get opportunity to interac directly with the potential clients ...Agencies ladies not.Of course a detail profile would help as for restrictions of races, age,piercings,tattoos etc but at time avoid for some reasons
I personally have no issues with ethnicity,race however notice that many many ladies in Montreal do.

Best is to provide more info so that you don't end up in those circumstances

I had guys booking with me and asking me via text or email if i was okay because they were black, or that they were very young or obese,handicap..I though it was a great touch to assure yourself first that person is aware and okay!
I had others that had different fetish or fantasy also disclore it beforehand.

An sp isn't obligate to see a clients just because he is paying her.Of course been an sp myself i don't expect Brad Pitt at my door..My only expectation is to have someone respectful and clean & not forceful....And of course some fun time is always a bonus!

I had client in USA that i had to terminate the date because he was too rough.The first thing he blurred at me was that i was racist.I refuse an other as the reference came back not so great and once again i was ask if it was the race.
Two difference races/colors both were wrong as i don't have those restrictions

By been upfront and disclose few informations i am sure it would reduce those type of circumstances and maybe having a less than lacklusting experience with someone that would not décline the date for financial reason.I'm sorry your trip to Montreal turn out not like you expected.
VJ

 

[rbrown1000]

I'm also sorry to hear that this happened. While I think that SPs should have the right to refuse service, I can think of no good reason that this refusal should be based solely on race. In fact, I find that idea abhorrent. Still, you're getting good advice: check reviews, work with the bookers, and establish yourself. Good luck.

I agree .Any provider should be able to refuse service if the client is bad news. But I cannot think of one good reason in my encounter.I did conduct myself professionally in every way.Even after I was rejected.

 

[rbrown1000]

Jonathan,

I find your posts on this matter to be compelling and credible. Until I hear from Sam on this thread, my feeling is this thread is an unproven assumption and quite possibly a case of miscommunication if in fact this incident occurred as reported. I mean I saw black guys at the XO party and they were having a great time. I seriously doubt Sam would have hired local black actors to fool everyone including his girls into thinking that they were having a good time. In fact that party, of agency parties I have been to, had a greater representation of minorities than any other agency party I can remember, with the arguable exception of the 2007 Eleganza party which had a strong contingent of Asian clients but no black clients (or escorts) to my memory at that agency. Whereas this agency has both. So pardon my skepticism in regards to this thread but it's partly based on facts I am personally aware of. And cannot ignore.

I have read all your comments and I am not sure if you do understand that racism and xenophobia is not as open in Canada like in the US it is subtle and yes it is there.You don't have to believe anything and I have no intention of convincing you either.

 

[VictoriaJolie]

I have read all your comments and I am not sure if you do understand that racism and xenophobia is not as open in Canada like in the US it is subtle and yes it is there.You don't have to believe anything and I have no intention of convincing you either.

i have to say that i agree with your statement..It's now on the open even comparing the south is close to accurate i worked in Texas Alabama louisiana...Arkansas,Oklahoma name it been there and i was amaze that actually in Canada similarity happens but in US the least there is less hypocrisy

 

[westwoody]

Some ethnic groups are very close knit and everyone knows everyone else, so to speak.
If a Scottish (for example) guy like me books with a Scottish lady there is a good chance we know each other.

Ultimately these services are so intimate and personal it is a woman's choice who she sees.
Nobody has a "right" to service.
Nobody should second guess a lady's choice.

 

[rbrown1000]

I am brown. I have seen almost every XO girl and Sam has never told me about any XO girl who would refuse me because of my race. Also, my origins are not from here.


Initially when I started hobbying, I always used to ask the booker (if it was an agency) if the girl will be comfortable as I am brown. Never did any booker say that a girl will be uncomfortable.


Gradually, I stopped asking once I realized that I had never faced rejection, even though sometimes my experience was always not 10/10, but it could be any xyz reason, not necessarily my race.


Also, one important thing I have noticed is, if you are clean, respectful and kind, you will get the best experience no matter your race or how you look.


There have been two indies who I wanted to meet, but there ads clearly suggested that they are not comfortable with brown.
Obviously it was sad to see that, but I respect their restrictions. If someone doesn't want to see you because of your race, move on there are plenty of amazing options out there.

But I am pretty sure, the sp in question can not be an XO girl.
I have always confirmed with Sam before my booking about this and he has never mentioned to me any such thing.

I just found out that SP was from an other agency .

 

[rbrown1000]

I just found out that SP was from an other agency and moved to XO.

 

[Passionné]

I have read all your comments and I am not sure if you do understand that racism and xenophobia is not as open in Canada like in the US it is subtle and yes it is there.You don't have to believe anything and I have no intention of convincing you either.

It's a poor understanding of racism to think anyone would openly expose it in any employed work situation, especially where it would be very foolish to show any sign of racial or ethnic bias in front of hundreds of high spending potential clients where physical intimacy is the commodity and showing charm and professionalism is critical, unless she wants to take the very strong risk of large financial loss. No escort would work long if her judgment was that bad.

I am brown. I have seen almost every XO girl and Sam has never told me about any XO girl who would refuse me because of my race. Also, my origins are not from here.

Thanks for providing a personal first hand perspective from your own experiences.

 

[rbrown1000]

It's a poor understanding of racism to think anyone would openly expose it in any work situation, especially where it would be very foolish to show any sign of racial or ethnic bias in front of hundreds of high spending potential clients where physical intimacy is the commodity, unless she wants to take the very strong risk of large financial loss.

Really !!! Have you read some of the comments on this thread.Some refuse to believe discrimination exists. so there is no loss of potential clients.She might actually attract more!! The SP is in her 20s and she might have have thought I would stay even after giving me a shitty attitude.She did not expect me to be polite and walk away I am certain of that.

 

[Passionné]

Really !!! Have you read some of the comments on this thread.Some refuse to believe discrimination exists. so there is no loss of potential clients.She might actually attract more!! The SP is in her 20s and she might have have thought I would stay even after giving me a shitty attitude.She did not expect me to be polite and walk away I am certain of that.

I've read them all. I was talking about the idea of this being done openly at a party "in front of hundreds of high spending clients" and the fact no one did it at a party proves nothing about the possible existence of racism inside someone. I seriously doubt any escort would gain more than she lost by being open about racism and an agency would certainly not go along with an escort known for that. It's bad business.

What you say happened to you I tend to believe in general though I find it difficult to believe she openly stated it.

 

[talkinghead]

Talkinghead, are you okay?
antidiscrimination law?..first escorting is not legal so the antidiscrimination law does not apply here!

I'm fine, thanks for asking. How about you? You must not have read my post very carefully, since that's *exactly* what my post said.