Race/Ethinicity Question
- Thread starter rbrown1000
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rbrown1000, i think YOU need to understand that refusing seeing a client of a different color is NOT racism or xenophobia. Even IF the reason was your color, no matter how dark chocolate black or milk chocolate brown you can be, or even Obama Light Brown (lol), the reality is when it comes to THIS service its not about being racist. Racism is HATING on different races for no valid reason. If i was a cook and you come to my restaurant and i would refuse to serve you food, yes that would be racism, your money is as good as anybody and i cook the food the same way. Here its a matter of engaging in intimacy. Total different thing. I seen provider say "no young men" as well, i sometimes wonder am i too young for them or not (31) , do i qualify as "young man" ? Does it mean 30+ or 40+ or even 50+? If i end up wanting to see that SP i would have to disclose my age to avoid problems at the door. Im sure she has her reason for not wanting young men, and if she can substain her business with old men, then good for her.
I am not an homophobe, i couldn't care less who a dude sleep with. I wouldn't have problem having gay friend. But i have no interest to engage in oiled wrestling with another man. Be it for a challenge or truth or dare... etc. Intimacy is different...
I totally agree with your post HM.......a girl gets a pass on refusing a client on whatever grounds when it comes to intimacy. rbrown1000's sole beef is for having his time wasted, which would not have happened if he had followed the advice of jonathankeeves and VictoriaJolie who both made sound, reasonable posts, essentially offering the same advice which would have avoided this situation. So in the end it is really much ado about nothing as the one thing he can legitimately complain about was primarily his own fault, in that proper communication in advance possibly could have avoided the situation.
I should add, yes you and I are white guys and no we have not had to deal with these issues, but I am not going to apologize for that, because I have slept with women of all races and if some would have rejected me I would have accepted it and moved on, but it hasn't happened. Although not really a rejection per se, when my ATF left the business and found a boyfriend and would not work any more, it was a total bummer, just as much a bummer as rbrown1000's situation because I could not see a girl I wanted to see because she would not let me. However, I was compelled to move on and did move on and did not cry about it (okay maybe a little, but I did it in private). Life is too short and there is too much to be enjoyed.
I'm genuinely curious about how people explain the fact that many SPs don't see black men. I'm not being argumentative and I'm not disputing their right to see whom they want. Nor am I asking SPs to explain themselves. But since it's obviously fairly commonplace, *why* do many SPs decline to see men of color? (As I've said before, it's very obviously not about attraction or "intimacy"; they see all kinds of men whom they don't find attractive; I trust we're not so naive as to think that sex work is about intimacy and attraction.)
So, are there demographic reasons in Montreal that make black men more statistically dangerous? Or harder to deal with? Or bad tippers? I'm being totally serious. I don't blame people if they don't want to speculate, but it's not very insightful to say "it's their decision." I grant that. But there must be *some reason* that a number of SPs discriminate (which is a fair word and doesn't imply racism). We don't see "no jews" or "no muslims," etc. I don't know Montreal well enough. What makes the category "black men" bad clients for many SPs?
So, are there demographic reasons in Montreal that make black men more statistically dangerous? Or harder to deal with? Or bad tippers? I'm being totally serious. I don't blame people if they don't want to speculate, but it's not very insightful to say "it's their decision." I grant that. But there must be *some reason* that a number of SPs discriminate (which is a fair word and doesn't imply racism). We don't see "no jews" or "no muslims," etc. I don't know Montreal well enough. What makes the category "black men" bad clients for many SPs?
2 of the reasons i heard the most is
1) She have a black boyfriend, and the black community is smaller, could be a guy that know a guy that know her boyfriend....
2) Risk of the guy being a pimp trying to recruit her
In third it may be general security issues too
But its false to say it has nothing to do with attraction. Maybe the porn world is a little different as pornstars (mostly) sleep with hot dude or at least fairly attractive ones. Yes there is definately exeptions (Ron Jeremy, Pierre Woodman etc) but IN GENERAL. But some pornstars have a "no interacial" rule. Jenna Jameson for exemple always said she would never do either Anal or Interacial. Its about what you are confortable with. If an escort refuse to see black clients and she refuse 1 dude every 2 weeks and her business is still blooming, why would she change it?
Happened to me too. Twice. 2 different situations tough. But one just simply left, got a sugar daddy and thats it. Anybody that knows me a bit know who it is lol. Even to this day i sometimes miss being able to see her. I remember the good times... :/ There is plenty of other hot girls, i have both a repeat list and a "want to see" list. But even for a girl like me that see 1 every couple months, and therefore have plenty of choices, i miss her and would like to have one final session with her, to at least say goodbye properly. Funny yet not funny, the last session we had was far from the best. Maybe she was already 1 foot on the way out and/or didn't felt to work that day. It wasn't terrible at all but compare to previous times... nop. Anyway obviously it didn't tarnish my memory of her at all.
1) She have a black boyfriend, and the black community is smaller, could be a guy that know a guy that know her boyfriend....
2) Risk of the guy being a pimp trying to recruit her
In third it may be general security issues too
But its false to say it has nothing to do with attraction. Maybe the porn world is a little different as pornstars (mostly) sleep with hot dude or at least fairly attractive ones. Yes there is definately exeptions (Ron Jeremy, Pierre Woodman etc) but IN GENERAL. But some pornstars have a "no interacial" rule. Jenna Jameson for exemple always said she would never do either Anal or Interacial. Its about what you are confortable with. If an escort refuse to see black clients and she refuse 1 dude every 2 weeks and her business is still blooming, why would she change it?
Happened to me too. Twice. 2 different situations tough. But one just simply left, got a sugar daddy and thats it. Anybody that knows me a bit know who it is lol. Even to this day i sometimes miss being able to see her. I remember the good times... :/ There is plenty of other hot girls, i have both a repeat list and a "want to see" list. But even for a girl like me that see 1 every couple months, and therefore have plenty of choices, i miss her and would like to have one final session with her, to at least say goodbye properly. Funny yet not funny, the last session we had was far from the best. Maybe she was already 1 foot on the way out and/or didn't felt to work that day. It wasn't terrible at all but compare to previous times... nop. Anyway obviously it didn't tarnish my memory of her at all.
ditto! I second that
Having had some closed relationships with some ebony girls, I can definitively tell #1 reason is real!
In montreal, black ppl commnunity is quite small and only one guy can lead to expose the girl!
And I witnessed it more than once, when a girl is exposed it can go viral on social medias!
my 2 cents... :amen:
The reluctance of many sex workers to see black clients is not unique to Montreal or any other city or country. I think it's a widespread tendency among escorts, whether they are from Montreal, New York, Paris or Hong Kong.
Famous escort blogger Maggie McNeill wrote honestly about the topic several years ago. Even though Maggie is very thick skinned about criticism, she caught so much flak for giving her honest opinion that she had to remove the column from her site. Here is a link to a copy from the Internet Archive:
[h=2]Black Men[/h] September 18, 2010 by Maggie McNeill
I couldn’t continue to call myself honest if I avoided a subject merely because it isn’t politically correct, and since I raised the subject in yesterday’s column it’s time to talk about it in full. Though I cannot speak for escorts in other cities, it is a fact that most of them in New Orleans dislike seeing black men. Please put aside your tired stereotypes about Southern racism before reading any further, because this aversion has nothing to do with bigotry and everything to do with the way many black men behave toward prostitutes. The strongest proof of this I can offer you is that while most white girls can be persuaded to see a black client if he is well-spoken and/or lives in an affluent neighborhood or stays in an expensive hotel, many black escorts will not see a black man under any circumstances; in the words of Tina (a simply gorgeous black girl who was Flavor of the Month for quite a while), “They’re too cheap, too rough and too full of themselves...”
Over my years in this hobby.
I have been rejected for my race, my height (too tall), my age (too young), my personality (too nice).
you gotta grow a thicker skin, i dont take too much offense because these cases are rare and it would be hypocritical of me. As there are girls i do not book based on my preferences and obviously its important that both parties are able to get into it.
i totally understand your points of view as this is a service that is offered and shouldn't be limited to certain people, this is a black market and anything goes, and its not like buying a car, its paying for a pretend relationship.
most recently I got rejected for my age in assumption that i would not be a passionate lover. I think its fair to assume that but its not true in all cases... nothing i can do but tell her im cool
I have been rejected for my race, my height (too tall), my age (too young), my personality (too nice).
you gotta grow a thicker skin, i dont take too much offense because these cases are rare and it would be hypocritical of me. As there are girls i do not book based on my preferences and obviously its important that both parties are able to get into it.
i totally understand your points of view as this is a service that is offered and shouldn't be limited to certain people, this is a black market and anything goes, and its not like buying a car, its paying for a pretend relationship.
most recently I got rejected for my age in assumption that i would not be a passionate lover. I think its fair to assume that but its not true in all cases... nothing i can do but tell her im cool
Have to agree.
The girl doesn't need a reason - it's to her discretion - rational or not her preference should be respected.
I discriminate which women I see all the time...
The girl doesn't need a reason - it's to her discretion - rational or not her preference should be respected.
I discriminate which women I see all the time...
You nailed it my friend! Let the woman decide. Yes life is not fair most of the time, but that's the way it is. The girl should get final decision on who she wants to have sex with, period!
Cheers,
thanks CaptRenault!
Indeed very interesting read!
this blog post nailed it 110% :thumb:
??? Where do you read "white clients are treating escorts with respect all the time" in Maggie's blog post ???
please enlighten me!
:amen:
I agree... about integrity!
I was only referring about your extrapolation as Maggie's blog post IS ABOUT black men and not other race!
So obviously she wasn't speaking about white men ... duh
And obviously too an escort unfortunately has from time to time a tougher client!
I have numerous examples of this and from black girls with white customers! And Even from Merb community...
It is then up to the girl to put this guy in her (or agency) black list.
About black guys exclusion, it also happens in stripclub and you know what, it is often black strippers that are asking for that or avoid clubs with too many of them...
Sad reality in fact....
Collectively, we the clients are much pickier than SPs. SPs see clients with a far wider range of body type and age than we we do. However, back to the subject of this thread.
Almost always we are aware of the race of an SP when we decide whom to book, so we don't refuse a woman at the door due to her race.
SPs have told me that they felt sorry for their black colleagues as they receive fewer calls than the white women. Some clients have told me that they would never call an Asian. I wonder if it would get out of hand if we the clients explain why we don't see women of certain races.
Almost always we are aware of the race of an SP when we decide whom to book, so we don't refuse a woman at the door due to her race.
SPs have told me that they felt sorry for their black colleagues as they receive fewer calls than the white women. Some clients have told me that they would never call an Asian. I wonder if it would get out of hand if we the clients explain why we don't see women of certain races.
I have paid to see ladies of every race there is on the planet. That being said, my personal physical preference in women is taller, slimmer caucasian brunettes with slightly darker skin. However, in my eyes if a particular woman is beautiful she is beautiful, regardless of race.
When it comes to black women, I am less attracted to dark skinned women with African facial features and more attracted to lighter skinned ebony women like Crystal. Crystal would be the classic example of a really gorgeous ebony woman of a lighter complexion. She is racially mixed.
However it's not racism to have these feelings, nor is it racism if the XO girl who allegedly refused rbrown1000 service found him unattractive or was made uncomfortable by him in some way. She is under no duty to accept all clients.
I mentioned this because I found it odd that the OP did not identify the girl, but did identify the agency. Usually that is because, logically, he somehow, some way wants to protect the girl and get something out of the agency. What is illogical about not identifying the girl and not the agency, however, is that if we accept rbrown1000's story that this was a spontaneous racist act by the unidentified escort, what was XO supposed to have done to prevent it since he didn't communicate as he could have, and how would it necessarily know about the alleged racism unless he contacted the person with whom he made the booking, which for some reason he didn't do. This puts you and Max at a serious disadvantage in conducting your investigation as this incident may have happened a week ago and it may be difficult to determine who this guy was and who the girl was. In my mind it is not cool what he did or fair to XO, and I find it very ironic that a guy who says he is black goes on MERB and takes a shot at an agency which in my mind is the most minority friendly agency in Montreal based on what I witnessed firsthand in person at the XO party. And for those who were not at the party, you didn't see the body language of the people there to even know what you are talking about. I read body language of strangers for a living. So I don't have any problem doing it at a private party. That was a very minority friendly party, the most minority-friendly escort party I have been to.
That kind of discussion did always finished in an impasse each time that subject came back.
rbrown1000 and
I answered about your questions "why" it could be possible to be refused by an escort in Montreal in post #40.
-I won't quote myself, quand même- :lol: but I think I expose all the possibilities.
The length of a post/article look to scare some people to take the effort to read in our modern days on internet, I know, but if you want some answers, I invite you to read it. xx
rbrown1000 and
I answered about your questions "why" it could be possible to be refused by an escort in Montreal in post #40.
-I won't quote myself, quand même- :lol: but I think I expose all the possibilities.
The length of a post/article look to scare some people to take the effort to read in our modern days on internet, I know, but if you want some answers, I invite you to read it. xx
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