Rejection of the proposed amendments to the Charter of the French language (Bill 14)
- Thread starter Max15411
- Start date
And explain to me why we should pay for you? LOL, if you want french lessons, take them and PAY for them... If i want to learn spanish i will seek out an institute and pay my lessons...Like i said Canada is big enough for all english speaking persons... If you are not happy here... then you know what to do. People that really want to learn french will take there own lessons.
Yes quebecois has crime like everybody else, but it aint in our mentality. I known what im speaking, my cousin is an official spanish traductor for the "palais de justice" and most of the case he does are in link with domestic violence. The mentality of those people is not the same as us, when they arrive here we got to remind them it aint mexico or colombia here, there is law and you can't give 50$ to the policeman and have all charges drop...
I found an interesting article... and its in english
read it if you wanthttp://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...avour-restrictions-immigration-195414790.html
Hey Halloween,
I wasn't asking for them (or as you say "you") to pay for it, all I needed was them to approve it as my classes are being paid for. About the crime you're speaking of, I've had a number of personal experiences where you can't even get the police to investigate anything, forget about charges, nobody has to pay anyone off because they won't investigate! However, it's pretty obvious our opinions are quite strong on this topic so any discussion would go nowhere.
Max15411,
Thanks for the clarification, I was under the impression that Bill 14 is an amendment to Bill 101, so we'd have a new Bill 101. Also, my French sucks.
I wasn't asking for them (or as you say "you") to pay for it, all I needed was them to approve it as my classes are being paid for. About the crime you're speaking of, I've had a number of personal experiences where you can't even get the police to investigate anything, forget about charges, nobody has to pay anyone off because they won't investigate! However, it's pretty obvious our opinions are quite strong on this topic so any discussion would go nowhere.
Max15411,
Thanks for the clarification, I was under the impression that Bill 14 is an amendment to Bill 101, so we'd have a new Bill 101. Also, my French sucks.
Extrait de la chronique de Boivert que tu cites: "Contrairement à ce qu'on pense à Toronto, par ailleurs, ce zèle n'a rien à voir avec l'élection du PQ (qui veut cependant rendre la loi applicable aux commerces de 25 employés et moins). Cette inspection remonte à une douzaine de mois, sous le gouvernement libéral. "
Voici le bout que tu as manqué et qui est le plus intriguant.
Pourquoi tous ces articles maintenant et non pas à l'époque, février-mars 2012, sous le PLQ???
And explain to me why we should pay for you? LOL, if you want french lessons, take them and PAY for them... If i want to learn spanish i will seek out an institute and pay my lessons...Like i said Canada is big enough for all english speaking persons... If you are not happy here... then you know what to do. People that really want to learn french will take there own lessons.
Yes quebecois has crime like everybody else, but it aint in our mentality. I known what im speaking, my cousin is an official spanish traductor for the "palais de justice" and most of the case he does are in link with domestic violence. The mentality of those people is not the same as us, when they arrive here we got to remind them it aint mexico or colombia here, there is law and you can't give 50$ to the policeman and have all charges drop...
I found an interesting article... and its in english
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...avour-restrictions-immigration-195414790.html
Can you be any more racist? Crime isn't in the Quebecois mentality? BULLSHIT! Crime has nothing to do with someone's nationality or culture.
There are 4 million unilingual French speaking people in Quebec. The French language is not in any danger here. Quebec is becoming an international laughing stock because of their stupid laws and recent actions and this new bill certainly isn't helping anything. It's bad enough that people in this province can make ANONYMOUS complaints on language issues, something that is counter to everyone's right to confront their accuser in a court of law. But now with Bill 14, they want to change 'ethnic communities' which are protected under international law, to 'cultural communities' which have no such protection. The French hardliners want to eradicate any group that can ever legally challenge their linguistic xenophobia.
The thing is that the separatist leaders are lying when they claim that they want a separate Quebec because that would spell the end of all language legislation. Such laws would be discriminatory in a country where French was the majority and as such, they would be illegal under international law. All they want is to stay in Canada, where they can continue to get their fat transfer payments, but to eradicate all English from the province. Bill 14 is just one more step along the way.
It's time that everyone finally stood up to these racist bastards and put them in their place.
Gentle said:
Yeah, right. People have been saying that since the '70s. Guess what? It still hasn't gone away and it's still costing this province millions if not billions of dollars of lost business each and every year. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't work and people have to open their eyes to what is going on here. This is ethnic cleansing, folks, whether you want to admit it or not. They've just found a way to do it 'legally'. It's time to fight back.
Merlot, OPEN YOUR EYES! Use your own brain to think for a change instead of allowing yourself to be brainwashed by your Separatist friends. Here's a small list of recent actions by the OQLF, who if this Bill 14 gets passed, will be able to request access to any company's internal documents when a complaint is filed.
http://www.cjad.com/language.aspx
http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10514896
Can you imagine that? You can have your property SEIZED for a language offense! A language offense that was brought against you by an ANONYMOUS complaint! What a great place we live in! Heil Marois!
Techman,
I hope you are drunk. Otherwise, you have no excuse for characterizing me in such a baldy uninformed way.
I haven't said a lot in this thread because it's all the same biases and lines, such as your example as quoted. Why did you write the above. It's stupid, it's nonsense...and I'm disgusted you would consider saying it. I have one friend who could be called marginally Separatist. In 11 years of knowing him, and seeing him 3 times a year amounting to numerous hundreds of hours I don't think he's spent 15-20 minutes on the subject. He's never mentioned it in 1000s and 1000s of emails. The only reason he mentioned it at all was because I wanted to get him to come to lunch with you and I, but he doesn't like your position on the issue and told me so he could explain why he would not go. Despite his feelings he doesn't obsess over this like some, and he has never cared to waste our time having fun with this crap. So you are WAY OUT OF LINE. I hope it was just an error.
You've been told before that my friend doesn't discuss this subject, so I suggest you not throw in such garbage. Besides buddy, I've hung out with you. Are you saying your arguments on the issue failed in my case.
I thought I noticed one side alluding to blaming crime or something of the kind on the other side, but I was worried my French translation was inaccurate. I see something like that seems to be the case and all I can say is this issue has reached new lows in going...KOOKOOPOO!!! Whatever side might say such a thing.
Cheers,
Merlot
I thought we lived in a free Country. It seems we are becoming a Comunist province to some point. We have to be told how to run a buisness. What language to speak. Computers at work have to be in french only a small percentage per department can be in english even the keyboards have to be in french. Are you kidding me. If you ask me it's all bullshit and i can't believe no one is doing anything about this and the examples I mention are very few there are so many others. We are makeing a Mochary of this Province what a joke. I say everyone should have the right to speak or work or run their buisness as they please. Sometimes I wonder how certain people think. Make no sense at all.
Merlot, did you actually read your post #25 in this thread? It is so misinformed that it's laughable. When you end it with ' Vive les Français!!! ' don't expect a kind response from me. No one is dismissing the French culture or language here in Quebec. In fact, anglos are bending over backwards to accept it and live here. Many Anglophone parents who actually have the right to educate their children in English choose to educate them in French. They are fortunate that they have that choice, French Quebecers don't. Anglos have accepted the existing language laws and do their best to live by them.
But when things go into the twilight zone with language inspectors filing complaints about the word PASTA on a menu, or various souvenirs and wall art at Joe Beef or forcing a restaurant in Quebec City to replace over $20,000 dollars worth of glassware and signs because they have an extra 'F' in the word Caffe on them, it's starting to get more than a little petty. But the new Bill 14, if it becomes law, would allow the OQLF, the language SS, to not only level fines but to actually close down such businesses if they refused to comply with these draconian rules. Can you imagine a business like the bakery in Pointe Claire that has been in business for decades, being shut down because it has the audacity to have signs where English and French are the same size? And don't say "Oh, that would never happen" because chances are pretty damn good that it would.
Do you think that Anglos here in Montreal enjoy reading statements such as this, made by a journalist at a rally in favour of the bill last night? ""If the anglophones are today as bilingual as they tell us they are, I think they should be capable of reading a sign in French or buying a metro ticket in French," said journalist Pierre Dubuc to rounds of applause. "And if they can't do it, they walk.""
This has gone way beyond protecting the French Quebec language and culture and is turning into an eradication campaign against anything that is not French. It is bigoted, borderline racist and xenophobic.
I have said it before and I will say it again...you know nothing about what it is like here in Montreal. Nothing. I like you and consider you a friend, but there are some things you should simply keep your nose out of.
French is in NO DANGER here in Quebec and no one can prove it is or even show any indication that it is. Montreal is a cosmopolitan city, an international city. It is time that this is accepted by our xenophobic, racist, separatist masters.
But when things go into the twilight zone with language inspectors filing complaints about the word PASTA on a menu, or various souvenirs and wall art at Joe Beef or forcing a restaurant in Quebec City to replace over $20,000 dollars worth of glassware and signs because they have an extra 'F' in the word Caffe on them, it's starting to get more than a little petty. But the new Bill 14, if it becomes law, would allow the OQLF, the language SS, to not only level fines but to actually close down such businesses if they refused to comply with these draconian rules. Can you imagine a business like the bakery in Pointe Claire that has been in business for decades, being shut down because it has the audacity to have signs where English and French are the same size? And don't say "Oh, that would never happen" because chances are pretty damn good that it would.
Do you think that Anglos here in Montreal enjoy reading statements such as this, made by a journalist at a rally in favour of the bill last night? ""If the anglophones are today as bilingual as they tell us they are, I think they should be capable of reading a sign in French or buying a metro ticket in French," said journalist Pierre Dubuc to rounds of applause. "And if they can't do it, they walk.""
This has gone way beyond protecting the French Quebec language and culture and is turning into an eradication campaign against anything that is not French. It is bigoted, borderline racist and xenophobic.
I have said it before and I will say it again...you know nothing about what it is like here in Montreal. Nothing. I like you and consider you a friend, but there are some things you should simply keep your nose out of.
French is in NO DANGER here in Quebec and no one can prove it is or even show any indication that it is. Montreal is a cosmopolitan city, an international city. It is time that this is accepted by our xenophobic, racist, separatist masters.
But things could always be worse. We could be living in the USA.
North Korea tells its people how Americans live today
North Korea tells its people how Americans live today
Oui, le français est en danger, et oui, par la langue anglaise qui domine l'éducation, de la science, des affaires et de l'Internet. L'anglais est déjà la langue première ou seconde langue de plus d'un milliard de personnes, soit plus de 10 fois le nombre de personnes qui parlent le français. Dans une autre génération, ce sera la deuxième langue d'au moins un autre milliard de personnes car l'anglais est enseigné en Chine.
Cependant, harcelant les vestiges pathétiques de la communauté animée autrefois anglais au Québec ne réduira pas l'attraction de l'anglais pour ceux qui veulent voyager, regarder des films qui ne sont pas doublés, faire des affaires au niveau international et lire des manuels techniques sans attendre des années pour leurs traductions.
Les politiciens créent les crises linguistiques, et non des êtres humains. Leur but est de pousser l'indépendance et de détourner l'attention des hôpitaux, écoles et routes honteux, des impôts élevés, le chomage et de la crise de la dette imminente en partie en raison que l'âge moyen de la population augmente.
La très grande majorité des anglophones qui reste encore à Québec parlent le français. Les francophones sont servis en français, même dans les anciens «ghettos» anglais. Personne n'est forcé de travailler en anglais. Les exceptions sont les légendes urbaines (soit gras, vieille dame unilingue anglaise au comptoir des parfums chez Ogilvy) ou insignifiante statistiquement.
Le Projet de loi 14 est une solution sans problème. Même si tous les anglophones quitte le Québec, les lois linguistiques ne sera jamais assez sévère pour le PQ et ceux qu'ils lavage de cerveau. (English translation will follow.)
Cependant, harcelant les vestiges pathétiques de la communauté animée autrefois anglais au Québec ne réduira pas l'attraction de l'anglais pour ceux qui veulent voyager, regarder des films qui ne sont pas doublés, faire des affaires au niveau international et lire des manuels techniques sans attendre des années pour leurs traductions.
Les politiciens créent les crises linguistiques, et non des êtres humains. Leur but est de pousser l'indépendance et de détourner l'attention des hôpitaux, écoles et routes honteux, des impôts élevés, le chomage et de la crise de la dette imminente en partie en raison que l'âge moyen de la population augmente.
La très grande majorité des anglophones qui reste encore à Québec parlent le français. Les francophones sont servis en français, même dans les anciens «ghettos» anglais. Personne n'est forcé de travailler en anglais. Les exceptions sont les légendes urbaines (soit gras, vieille dame unilingue anglaise au comptoir des parfums chez Ogilvy) ou insignifiante statistiquement.
Le Projet de loi 14 est une solution sans problème. Même si tous les anglophones quitte le Québec, les lois linguistiques ne sera jamais assez sévère pour le PQ et ceux qu'ils lavage de cerveau. (English translation will follow.)
Yes, French is in danger and yes, by the English language which dominates education, science, business and the internet. English is already the first or second language language of more than a billion people, more than 10 times the number who speak French. In another generation, it will be the second language of at least another billion people as it is being taught in China.
However, harassing the pathetic remnants of the once vibrant English community in Quebec will not lessen the attraction of English to those who want to travel, watch movies which are not dubbed, do business internationally and want to read technical manuals without waiting years for their translations.
Politicians create language crises, not human beings. Their purpose is to push independance, distract from the horrible hospitals, schools, roads, high taxes, lack of jobs and the impending debt crisis as the population ages.
The overwhelming majority of anglophones speak French. Francophones are served in French, even in formerly English "ghettos". Nobody is forced to work in English. Exceptions are either urban legends (fat, old unilingual English lady at the perfume counter at Ogilvy) or insignificant statistically.
Bill 14 is a solution without a problem. Even if every single anglophone left Quebec, the language laws will never be severe enough for the PQ and those they brainwash.
However, harassing the pathetic remnants of the once vibrant English community in Quebec will not lessen the attraction of English to those who want to travel, watch movies which are not dubbed, do business internationally and want to read technical manuals without waiting years for their translations.
Politicians create language crises, not human beings. Their purpose is to push independance, distract from the horrible hospitals, schools, roads, high taxes, lack of jobs and the impending debt crisis as the population ages.
The overwhelming majority of anglophones speak French. Francophones are served in French, even in formerly English "ghettos". Nobody is forced to work in English. Exceptions are either urban legends (fat, old unilingual English lady at the perfume counter at Ogilvy) or insignificant statistically.
Bill 14 is a solution without a problem. Even if every single anglophone left Quebec, the language laws will never be severe enough for the PQ and those they brainwash.
Si vous ne pouvez pas fournir du pain, propose un cirque.
If you can't provide bread, offer a circus.
If you can't provide bread, offer a circus.
Techman,
Could you possibly explain what that post has to do with the quote of yours regarding brainwashing??? The post barely takes a position at all on the threads issue, and then only by inference. "Vive les Francais" was simply a salutary reference supporting the validity of the culture of my own proud heritage. It was not a statement on this issue. The most I said is, when people get utterly ridiculous about this issue it's understandable why the targets of such over-the-top nonsense views would consider laws to protect them from that ilk. Otherwise, I really didn't say much on this subject in the post.
If you are so extremely discomforted by three French words of a common sentiment, which don't inherently say anything about Separatism, that you have a visceral reaction and become blatantly insulting...then you need help.
This is the second time you've made such a comment to me in as many threads. And you chose to use terms that are FUCKING insulting about it, this time based on nonsense in the first place. You seem to have given up on being civilized. If you can't help reacting that way over just "vive les Francais" then you badly need to take time out to regain a more rational perspective.
Cheers bud,
Merlot
Merlot, this law has nothing to do with separatism. It really has nothing to do with 'saving' the French language either, it's not in danger and they very well know that. It has to do with xenophobia and racism. It has to do with power and the manipulation of the populace to maintain that power. Quebec will NEVER separate. They want their own little kingdom within Canada where they can do whatever the hell they want and continue to get their transfer payments.
You talk about "over-the-top nonsense views" but happily ignore the over the top nonsense LAWS that exist against the English language. No one in this province wants English to become the dominant language, they just want the respect they are due, the respect they have earned. Anglo Quebecers pay their taxes just as every other resident does. Why should they be discriminated against? Why should the French majority take every possible opportunity to grind them a bit further into the ground? How far should they be allowed to go? How far WILL they go? What's next? Forcing business who break the law to display a sign with ANGLAIS written on it in large letters? When does it stop? Only when all traces of the English language are totally eradicated from the province? When the last Anglo has gone down the 401?
Try replacing 'English' with 'Black' and tell me if you think the same laws would be tolerable?
You talk about "over-the-top nonsense views" but happily ignore the over the top nonsense LAWS that exist against the English language. No one in this province wants English to become the dominant language, they just want the respect they are due, the respect they have earned. Anglo Quebecers pay their taxes just as every other resident does. Why should they be discriminated against? Why should the French majority take every possible opportunity to grind them a bit further into the ground? How far should they be allowed to go? How far WILL they go? What's next? Forcing business who break the law to display a sign with ANGLAIS written on it in large letters? When does it stop? Only when all traces of the English language are totally eradicated from the province? When the last Anglo has gone down the 401?
Try replacing 'English' with 'Black' and tell me if you think the same laws would be tolerable?
Bon Techman qui braille encore.
Pauvres petits, vous faites tellement pitié avec vos écoles anglaises, vos universités, et vos hopitaux.
Pauvres petits, vous faites tellement pitié avec vos écoles anglaises, vos universités, et vos hopitaux.
Already said it, i aint racist...i couldn't care less about skin color. Languist(???) ... maybe... but again not saying i hate other languages... I LOVE the russian language, the japanese language and i think a woman speaking spanish in bed is super sexy... BUT in quebec, i want french to dominate everywhere. I want signs in french, i want to be serve in french, its a province of french, so french should be the default language. It aint normal if i sleep in a hotel, even if he is the night clerk and don't talk much with customers, that he can't serve me in french. Will i go protest and try to have him fired? Nah... i aint a jerk, but by the law he SHOULD be able to serve me in french. And it should be normal i expect that.
And yes english is sooo everywhere that french is in danger. I remember as a kid... damn i would had love to have video games in french like they do now. Sure as an ADULT these days i do my games in english, because the voice over is usually better, i have test the french version during the 2 first year it arrived for the 360 and honestly i prefer the english version, BUT as a kid i couldn't understand my games and it pissed me off. On the NES it was no biggies as it was mostly side scroller, but on the N64, i had to go on the internet look for solution that where most of the time in english too(so had to use google translater) to finally know what to do, when it was all clear in the game. I miss some good stories also because of that. Now they are force to at least include french subtitles... and i WELCOME this for all the people NOT speaking english.
I watch my movies in both french and english, depending on the actors or if a french dubb is avalaible, i will usually go for the dubb if possible, but i can watch them in english, and unless its a serie i started in english like supernatural(can't watch it in french due to the terrible dubbing) i will always look for the french version. But even this... we in quebec aint like france and we miss some.
Why for exemple i can't have a DVD with Van Damme(Legionaire) with a french track but in france they can... why i had to buy Maximum Risk in the states on one of the rare copies that include french to have it... when at HMV or archambault they said they couldn't... All these movies where release with french back in the VHS era... Guess its because we aint enough french speakers to make the compagnies pay for it.
yes im very protective of my language and of a french quebec. dosent mean tough im racist and hate on other nationalities. i rather see them visit as tourist and IF they want to live here... learn french...easy. Thats call ADAPTING...
and mtlnewbie if you where not aprove, its more likely they will favorise a poor refugee from colombia or such that some english guy that was born in canada(assuming you are) They probably think like i do... you CAN pay it yourself...
Its totally different. If the person speak french, whatever he is black, white or anything else, thats all fine. Racisme is bad because it judge people just by there skin color, no matter what they do, no matter how good a person can be, they will always be see as "lesser persons" by the racist. But on a language note... im not asking them to not speak there language at home or among themselves and such, im simply asking them to be able to serve me in french, have signs in french and everything label in french in there business. If they speak among themselves in english or whatever on the street, i won't give a damn...
And yes english is sooo everywhere that french is in danger. I remember as a kid... damn i would had love to have video games in french like they do now. Sure as an ADULT these days i do my games in english, because the voice over is usually better, i have test the french version during the 2 first year it arrived for the 360 and honestly i prefer the english version, BUT as a kid i couldn't understand my games and it pissed me off. On the NES it was no biggies as it was mostly side scroller, but on the N64, i had to go on the internet look for solution that where most of the time in english too(so had to use google translater) to finally know what to do, when it was all clear in the game. I miss some good stories also because of that. Now they are force to at least include french subtitles... and i WELCOME this for all the people NOT speaking english.
I watch my movies in both french and english, depending on the actors or if a french dubb is avalaible, i will usually go for the dubb if possible, but i can watch them in english, and unless its a serie i started in english like supernatural(can't watch it in french due to the terrible dubbing) i will always look for the french version. But even this... we in quebec aint like france and we miss some.
Why for exemple i can't have a DVD with Van Damme(Legionaire) with a french track but in france they can... why i had to buy Maximum Risk in the states on one of the rare copies that include french to have it... when at HMV or archambault they said they couldn't... All these movies where release with french back in the VHS era... Guess its because we aint enough french speakers to make the compagnies pay for it.
yes im very protective of my language and of a french quebec. dosent mean tough im racist and hate on other nationalities. i rather see them visit as tourist and IF they want to live here... learn french...easy. Thats call ADAPTING...
and mtlnewbie if you where not aprove, its more likely they will favorise a poor refugee from colombia or such that some english guy that was born in canada(assuming you are) They probably think like i do... you CAN pay it yourself...
Its totally different. If the person speak french, whatever he is black, white or anything else, thats all fine. Racisme is bad because it judge people just by there skin color, no matter what they do, no matter how good a person can be, they will always be see as "lesser persons" by the racist. But on a language note... im not asking them to not speak there language at home or among themselves and such, im simply asking them to be able to serve me in french, have signs in french and everything label in french in there business. If they speak among themselves in english or whatever on the street, i won't give a damn...
I fully understand the need to protect french culture, and support those rights. However we have to realize that the whole world is becoming more cosmopolitan and that if we need to be part of 'the new world" we have to comunicate with them in as many languages as we can. Teaching both French and English language for the first five years of school ensures that future generations are able to communicate well and still retain "their roots and culture" This would give Quebec the best educated work force and help it become the "Power House" of Canada. Quebec has the potential to become the driving force of Canada and financially solvent. People who stay and work here pay their taxes here. People who leave drain the province of revenue.
I suspect that the PQ is on a "Please the public" drive. They will promise anything to become popular even if they can not deliver. Like free tuition for universities. Even though they know they will fail at Bill 14. They want to show the public that they tried.
If they want to give the public what we want, they should go jump in a river. They should take all their blind followers with them. I'll get back to some of you above later after I get off work.
BTW, the petition is at 28232 signatures.
Don't forget to sign.
https://www.assnat.qc.ca/en/exprimez-votre-opinion/petition/Petition-3559/index.html
https://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/exprimez-votre-opinion/petition/Petition-3559/index.html
BTW, the petition is at 28232 signatures.
Don't forget to sign.
https://www.assnat.qc.ca/en/exprimez-votre-opinion/petition/Petition-3559/index.html
https://www.assnat.qc.ca/fr/exprimez-votre-opinion/petition/Petition-3559/index.html
