Restaurant thread....the best place to eat...Where!!!

[EagerBeaver]

Sorry... You CANNOT compare Montreal's smoked meat with NY's pastrami...

Smoked meat is the Ritz... Pastrami's is a cheap motel on Road 117....

Never, ever say this at Katz Deli or any of the other top 8 Jewish delis in NYC, unless you have a New York Yankees baseball cap on your head or an Aaron Judge jersey on your torso, which just might save you from the beating of your life and being thrown out the door and into the street on your ass outside any of these places:

http://gothamist.com/2015/09/21/best_jewish_delis_nyc.php

The first time I ever ate smoked meat at Schwartz's was around 15 years ago, when I went with my cousin, who is also American. He had been to Schwartz's and compared it to really good NYC pastrami and invited me to join him there. As we ate our lunch, I told my cousin that I thought it actually tasted like very tender corned beef.

The manager at Schwartz's overheard my comment and came over to our table. He knew I was an American tourist and proceeded to give me a 20 minute dissertation, which almost sounded like a doctoral thesis, on the differences between corned beef and smoked meat, the principle one being corned beef is boiled and smoked meat is dry cured and smoked.

The manager then told me he had challenged the owner of Carnegie Deli, which at that time was the top pastrami purveyor in NYC (Katz has since taken that honor- Carnegie closed in 2016) to a "meat challenge": smoked meat vs. pastrami. He told me the Carnegie owner was a "pussy" who would not accept the "challenge" (I presumed the challenge was for Carnegie to come up to Montreal with their pastrami and have a meat tasting contest). I think the challenge was declined because Carnegie was too busy making money in NYC to be worrying about the bravado from some small Montreal meat purveyor. Who knows.

However, the point is that the fact that he issued a challenge is, to me, a tacit admission that Carnegie's NYC pastrami was a worthy competitor deserving of the challenge. Would the coach of the Habs issue a challenge to play a minor league team like Laval or Verdun for Montreal area hockey supremacy? Of course not. You only challenge someone you deem worthy of that challenge. So respectfully T, you don't know what you are talking about. Even the owner/manager of Schwartz's knows how good NYC pastrami is at the real hardcore NYC delis which I posted above.

And I do like NYC pastrami more than smoked meat, but I was kind of weaned on it. One of my parents is Jewish, so I ate lots of that shit when I was younger. Don't eat it much any more mainly for health reasons, but it is real, real good stuff they are selling at Katz's. How dare you compare it to a cheap motel. They certainly do not have cheap motel prices lol.

 

[LeafsSuck]

I ate at both Cheval and Gibbys during different visits last summer. Food was good at both, but Cheval was much more contemporary in its menu and it's decor. Gibbys felt like a steakhouse from the 70s. I had a really good meal there, but the overall experience felt dated.

Luvdozer is right on the money. I would like to add that Gibby's is much less expensive than Cheval (i.e. they don't charge you $12 for a potato and $15 for veggies!). AND IMHO Gibby's steak is a little bit better. However, because I like ambiance, for every 9 visits to Cheval I do 1 to Gibby's.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I also agree luvdozer is on the money with Gibby’s. Ambience is not its strength as a restaurant. The food is. And frankly Moishes ambience is even worse than Gibby’s while also serving good food. I have eaten at Gibby’s 12-15 times at least through the years and never had a less than stellar dining experience.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Street level Reubens also makes very good but grossly overpriced entree salads, although Deville Dinerbar has much better salads and much better food generally IMHO, if you want to stick to one of the overpriced downtown restaurants that primarily cater to tourists.

Same owner.

 

[Doc Holliday]

And I do like NYC pastrami more than smoked meat, but I was kind of weaned on it. One of my parents is Jewish, so I ate lots of that shit when I was younger. Don't eat it much any more mainly for health reasons, but it is real, real good stuff they are selling at Katz's. How dare you compare it to a cheap motel. They certainly do not have cheap motel prices lol.

Over the past couple of months i've been making my own smoked meat/corned beer/pastrami sandwiches. This week i concluded that my favorite are pastrami sandwiches. I will therefore cease to make smoked meat & corned beef sandwiches. I was actually very surprised at my choice since i've always seen myself as more of a smoked meat/corned beef type of guy than pastrami.

By the way i was at Schwartz for the first time this past summer & it sucked. I was so disappointed!! Their smoked meat sandwich reminded me of Dunn's, which i hate. I swore i'd never go back to Schwartz. The fries were good, though.

Maybe it's because i've been going to Reuben's (street level) for over 15 years and i'm used to the taste of their smoked meat sandwich, which i find superior to anywhere else. Who knows.

 

[Doc Holliday]

The manager at Schwartz's overheard my comment and came over to our table. He knew I was an American tourist and proceeded to give me a 20 minute dissertation, which almost sounded like a doctoral thesis, on the differences between corned beef and smoked meat, the principle one being corned beef is boiled and smoked meat is dry cured and smoked.

The same thing happened to me in the late 80's when i lived on the South Shore for close to a year. For lunch i'd often go to the nearest La Belle Province diner and would have their smoked meat sandwich. One time i made a mistake and ordered a corned beef sandwich and immediately corrected myself. The manager overheard me and asked me if i lived in another province. When i replied that i wasn't from Quebec he laughed and told me that many non-Quebecers make the same mistake and say 'corned beef sandwich' first before correcting themselves. Reason for the mistake is that in those days Shopsy's Deli ruled in the Toronto area & a corned beer sandwich was at the top of their menu. In those days smoked meat (especially Montreal smoked meat) was mostly popular in the province of Quebec. Today it's everywhere.

The manager then proceeded to give me a long lecture of the differences between corned beef, smoked meat and pastrami.

 

[transatlantic]

Moving on from smoked meat. Any recommendations on Turkish restaurants near/in downtown for doner or kunefeh? I usually go to Maison Istanbul but that’s a good 25 min drive from downtown.

 

[still up]

went to Beatrice 2 weeks ago for a professionnal activity. we had a preset menu, and it was fantastic. wines were fantastic (all from Chile) and service was great.

 

[smuler]

Smoked Meat and Pastrami are equally as good
A treat either way.

But you have to have a Cott’s Black Cherry Soda Doc Cosby !!

Best Regards
Smuler

 

[LeafsSuck]

I also agree luvdozer is on the money with Gibby’s. Ambience is not its strength as a restaurant. The food is. And frankly Moishes ambience is even worse than Gibby’s while also serving good food. I have eaten at Gibby’s 12-15 times at least through the years and never had a less than stellar dining experience.

The Beaver is right on the money too. Moishes ambiance is non-existent AND they have the worst steaks out of the high-end steak restaurants. I've been several times and been disappointed each and every time. The Main across the street is even better and at a fraction of the cost.
The highlight of Moishes was back in the 90's the coat check guy. He would take your jacket, have a quick look at your face and memorize it!! He didn't give you a coat check ticket!! He just remembered which jacket was yours. He never get it wrong. I thought this was quite remarkable. Does anybody else remember this guy?

 

[Paykah]

Yes! so did the car valet! Like Kreskin!!

 

[kabukicho]

I find NY pastrami more complex than montreal smoked meat, more melt in your mouth. It's supposed to be the navel meat of the cow.. and lastly, it's steamed and kept in their steamer before being sliced. this way it gets its moisture back as well as having become tenderized after being wet cured and smoked.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I find NY pastrami more complex than montreal smoked meat, more melt in your mouth. It's supposed to be the navel meat of the cow.. and lastly, it's steamed and kept in their steamer before being sliced. this way it gets its moisture back as well as having become tenderized after being wet cured and smoked.

Bang on with your post kabukicho. One other thing I should mention is that pastrami is cheese-friendly (usually served with Swiss), whereas smoked meat is never served with cheese and it’s considered sacrilege to do so. The first time I went to Schwartz’s with a local friend I asked him if I could get smoked meat with Swiss. He excitedly told me “no! You will be looked at like an alien with 3 eyes!!!” This shocked me because I thought French Canadians loved cheese judging by the size and selection of fromage department at the local supermarkets. But whereas I believed smoked meat would be joined with a cheese, it’s not the case.

On the other hand pastrami is the most cheese friendly of all meats, even including hamburgers. I grew up with pastrami and swiss on Rye Bread with Gulden’s mustard. We used to love eating big sloppy pastrami sandwiches and used to be our lunch one day a week in elementary school. Swiss was always an option. But you talk to Montreal locals and they want naked smoked meat more than they want naked women. I say show the cheese some love man. The fromage makers gotta make a living too and good Swiss is always a nice topping on Pastrami.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

"This shocked me because I thought French Canadians loved cheese judging by the size and selection of fromage department at the local supermarkets." Jesus H. Christ, Beav, did you really write this or was your merb account hacked. Smoked meat is as French as my Irish Vito, who isn't Irish and isn't my uncle. Smoked meat, for your information, is Jewish.

Pastrami and cheese? Pastrami and fucking cheese? To quote the famous attorney, J. Eager Beaver, "Never, ever say this at Katz Deli or any of the other top 8 Jewish delis in NYC, unless you have a New York Yankees baseball cap on your head or an Aaron Judge jersey on your torso, which just might save you from the beating of your life and being thrown out the door and into the street on your ass outside any of these places." Next you'll be ordering cheeseburgers and egg creams at a kosher deli.

 

[EagerBeaver]

"This shocked me because I thought French Canadians loved cheese judging by the size and selection of fromage department at the local supermarkets." Jesus H. Christ, Beav, did you really write this or was your merb account hacked. Smoked meat is as French as my Irish Vito, who isn't Irish and isn't my uncle. Smoked meat, for your information, is Jewish.

Pastrami and cheese? Pastrami and fucking cheese? To quote the famous attorney, J. Eager Beaver, "Never, ever say this at Katz Deli or any of the other top 8 Jewish delis in NYC, unless you have a New York Yankees baseball cap on your head or an Aaron Judge jersey on your torso, which just might save you from the beating of your life and being thrown out the door and into the street on your ass outside any of these places." Next you'll be ordering cheeseburgers and egg creams at a kosher deli.

Totally irrelevant. The question is not, "who makes smoked meat?" The question is, "who are the consumers that are eating smoked meat?" The consumer drives the preparation. Last time I checked they are all French Canadians. Did you ever see mayonnaise served with dim sum any place in the world outside of Montreal? It doesn't happen. You know why? It's because that is how French Canadians eat their dim sum. Go to Ton Kiang in San Francisco and ask for mayo with your dim sum. I dare you! No, I double fucking dare you!!!! See what the answer is. Warning: the Barry Bonds autographed Giants jersey will not save your ass. In Ruby Rouge if you have a caucasian face and don't open you fucking mouth (which in your case would be a dead giveaway that you are not French), mayo is getting put on your plate. I have to not only open my mouth, but physically restrain or block the waiter from putting mayo on my plate or on a dish in my dining space, otherwise it gets thrust upon me.

Regarding Katz's menu, here it is dude. It states: "ask for mayo at your peril". The menu is notable in what it doesn't say, which is: "ask for swiss cheese at your peril." In fact said request will be happily honored. You know why? It's called a Reuben and it is on the menu with swiss cheese and sauerkraut:

https://www.katzsdelicatessen.com/menu_and_local-delivery

Delicious! Cheeseburgers are also on the menu BTW. The guys at Katz's are, in the words of the famous Board Stiff, "modern Hebrews."

You need to bone up on your 21st Century culinary acumen Rumples. It's 2018 dude, don't let the years pass you by.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

You're hilarious, Beav. You ever hear a word of French spoken at Schwartz's, on either side of the counter? Me neither. The clientele (my guess) is 80% tourist, 15% Anglo, 5% Franco.

As for Katz's, they don't mention cheese because no one in their right mind would ever ask for it. And as for the Reuben, the last time a Reuben was made with pastrami was, um, never. That's a malaprop on the Katz's menu since, never having been to Montreal, they apparently don't know that a Reuben is made with corned beef or smoked meat, a Rachel with Pastrami.

Board Stiff famous? Only to merb's illustrious Official Historian. He hasn't been mentioned, thought of, disparaged, or the like since like 2005. It's 2018 dude, don't let the years pass you by.

BTW, just a week until the anniversary of the great vanishing. When the time comes, I'll PM you with the whole story of the dossier that brought him down.

 

[Bred Sob]

Curiously, it is called "RUEBEN" (sic!) in their menu linked above. Maybe it's their own way to acknowledge that it's a malaprop.

 

[EagerBeaver]

It's not a malaprop. Many restaurants serve Pastrami Reubens. It does get made with corned beef as well (but I have never seen it made with smoked meat in the USA). Don't let Rumples pull your dick, he is not familiar with the modernization of traditional kosher concepts in order to keep restaurant customers happy. Obviously every Jewish deli has its share of old school customers who, like rumples, are vilified at the thought of meat and cheese touching the same plate, and they are served according to their specifications. The Jewish delis know these customers by face and do not have to be asked to serve the pastrami a certain way or with no cheese. I prefer the Board Stiff "modern Hebrew" approach of pairing meats and cheese and bacon with eggs, and on sandwiches, with cheese. Although in my case, I am a modern half-Hebrew.

The point is pastrami as made in NYC is a cheese and sauerkraut friendly meat, whereas smoked meat, as sold in Montreal to the masses, is not cheese or sauerkraut friendly. And if you watch Doc Holliday eat it, it's not even French Fry friendly either, as he does not touch the fries and puts them on another plate until the meat is completely eaten. That is one unfriendly meat. You can say smoked meat is to meats what Chihuahuas are to dogs, a temperamental little meat that needs its own space free and clear of toppings.

 

[rumpleforeskiin]

God, you’re hilarious, Beav. Pray tell which rabbinical enclave “updated” the definition of that which is kosher and that which is not?

 

[exnocomment]

Katz for sure is not kosher. Been to Tel Aviv recently and boy the kosher restaurants are the worst for the most part - and the big hotel chains humorist Shabbat means no hot breakfast..

Interestingly enough Schwartz still seems to have a portion of loyal québécois customers but are definitely swamped by the steady stream of tourists .. which surprisingly still didn’t make them enough money not to nearly go under.