Reviews en echange de services gratuits = SHILL OU NON?

[Sexy_BBW_Véro]

Echanger des services gratuitement contre des reviews ... shill ou non?

On s'entends que nimporte quelles filles ou endroits qui saient davance que la personne va ecrire de quoi ... va se forcer davantages pour la plupart du temps donc que le reviewer disent reellement ce qui s'est passé ou non ... rendu là , ça n'a plus vraiment son importance selon moi.

La semaine derniere ... avant que je ne laisse tomber l'idee d'avoir ma propre agence avec une partenaire ... j'ai reçus quelques coups de fils d'un certain membre qui se disait bien important sur merb ... me disant que je ne pouvais , en tant que nouvelle agence , me permettre de refuser son offre de SHILL. Je lui ai repondu maintes fois que je ne suis aucunement interessée par ce genre de choses et il ne semblait pas vouloir en demordre. Je n'en reviens meme pas de voir combien de shill ce membre a fait ... maintenant que j'ai regardé son profil ici!

Qu'en pensez vous ??

j'espere et j'imagine quand meme que je ne suis pas la seule encore honnete dans cet industrie

 

[AllOverHer]

my 2 cents, this conversation should have been with you sisters not members on the forum.

Vero you should be up for sainthood for refusing!

please cut the crap and be honest. You think by saying that you're honest you'll get more business?

What difference does it make that you give a rebate to a member that will write a great review. Any marketing is good for your business as long at it brings the $$$$.

What does it change that I find out that a specific lady that I saw has chilling going. As long that my sessions are up to par, I'm a happy camper.

For me, the real issue here is the service really worthy of the chilled review!

I don't give to f..... if I see a girl that has been shilled here if her service is good. In the back channels we find out really fast who are the good ones and the not so good sp. Chills or no chills.

Don't forget $$$$$$$ is the only purpose.

now what is your marketing plan in the slow economy?

 

[Sexy_BBW_Véro]

Alloverher ... my marketing plan is , like ever , based on my solid and TRUE reputation that I have built the last 2 years ... and I count on this and on the way I continu to give the best service I can.

Yes I have reduced my rates because of the recession ... but I will never shilled to have more costumer l No thanks ... I have my Honor even I'm a business woman!

 

[panthere]

allo

cela est triste que tu dise cela vero..mais javoue que je lai deja entendue dire par une sp dans le passée...et jen revenais pas..(le pire ces que le membre est quand meme tres respecté ici)..malgré qu' on mange toujour toute notre claque sur merb parfois mais j'avoue trouvé cela dommage....moi je dis que les thread devrais etre accesible SEULEMENT AU MEMBRE EN REGLE a part le lounge comme exemple(désolé si je me repete les mods mais cela arreterais de beaucoup les shills et autres ... )alors sur ce vero ne descend pas a son niveau et reste toi meme..voila tout

p.s.pour ma part si la demoiselle me fais du bien jen parle..et si cela nest pas le cas jen parle aussi mais jai JAMAISSSSSSS DIT....fais ca car je suis un membre de merb lollllll..p.s. certaines sp ou danseuse pourrons le dire que jai jamais dévoilé mon identité pour gagné ou avoir un privilege de sp..malgré quelle le savent apres que jai dis notre soirée lolllll...

 

[Merlot]

Echanger des services gratuitement contre des reviews ... chill ou non?

On s'entends que nimporte quelles filles ou endroits qui saient davance que la personne va ecrire de quoi ... va se forcer davantages pour la plupart du temps donc que le reviewer disent reellement ce qui s'est passé ou non ... rendu là , ça n'a plus vraiment son importance selon moi.

La semaine derniere ... avant que je ne laisse tomber l'idee d'avoir ma propre agence avec une partenaire ... j'ai reçus quelques coups de fils d'un certain membre qui se disait bien important sur merb ... me disant que je ne pouvais , en tant que nouvelle agence , me permettre de refuser son offre de CHILL. Je lui ai repondu maintes fois que je ne suis aucunement interessée par ce genre de choses et il ne semblait pas vouloir en demordre. Je n'en reviens meme pas de voir combien de chill ce membre a fait ... maintenant que j'ai regardé son profil ici!

Qu'en pensez vous ??

j'espere et j'imagine quand meme que je ne suis pas la seule encore honnete dans cet industrie

Hello Vero,

The free translation did not work well here, but I think I understand you are asking if it's a shill for someone to receive a free encounter in direct exchange for a review? The answer is there is no way it cannot be a shill under those circumstances. Even if both parties are very honest in giving the situation of the exchange when the review is posted it's still a shill. Now, I would draw a distinction, unlike many others, that if you gave someone a free encounter without requesting or in any way suggesting there should be a review to return the favor it would not necessarily be a shill. But the author should have to post those circumstances and even the most honest poster could never erase the doubt of the general membership that he wasn't shilling, even if he was truly just writing honestly about the actions and his feelings. For myself, I could accept the review as honest if it came from a few individuals I know very well. But how can the vast majority of the membership accept that.

Your scenario creates an impossible situation. Some will say a review is shilling if there is only a small discount for services, and some have done so. I am not as rigid about the situation as that. I want to go by the standing of the author. But when receiving a free service in direct exchange for a review, how can the most honestly intentioned person prevent themselves from showing improper favor. There is no winning for the lady in this kind of deal. It creates inherent doubt about the client and taints the intentions of the lady. Overall, a review in this circumstance is a bad for everyone. If you want to give your services away for free...just enjoy it and forget a review.

Good luck,

Merlot

 

[Merlot]

merlot..sweety, try this here
http://www.reverso.net/text_translation.asp?lang=FR

(very good one but the text shouldnt have any mistakes)

Salut B,

Merci beaucoup pour l'aide. J'aimerais être capable de traduire le français poste(affiche) plus efficacement. Je serais aussi très heureux si cela m'a aidé à apprendre plus de français pour mon utilisation propre. Ainsi merci beaucoup mon chou.

Faites-moi savoir comment bien il est allé, s'il vous plait?

Hello B,

Thank you very much for the help. I would love to be able to translate the French posts more effectively. I would also be very happy if this helped me to learn more French for my own use. So thanks again sweetie.

Let me know how well it went, if you please?

U ROCK BABY!

Merlot

 

[benxxx]

i've read alot about shills on this board in the past 2 days...

here is my interpretation of what a shill is; correct me if i'm wrong...

shill: a review posted on a board, that does not reflect the actual experience of the reviewer, but is in fact a deviated mean of making the promotion of a girl/agency. the shill can be initiated by the girl/agency themselves, or by an exterior agent that would personnaly profit from the act of shilling.

i think the mentioned scenario fits this defenition wether it is offering free services in exchange of a good publicity, or the other way around...

as for the scenario of a established reviewer offering a good review in exchange for a free service, if the girl is not worthy of the praises the reviewer would stand to loose is credibility, and the encounter wouldn't be that profitable anyway. Unless we're talking of an agency offering free hours with a girl in exchange for a good review of another... (credibility still at risk...)

so if the question is:a a good review, in exchange of b a free service.
weither it is: if you give me a i'll give you b
or if you give me b i'll give you a

it's still a shill.

i added "good" to the question, because if one offered a free service in exchange for a review that turned out to be negative i'm not sure we could talk of a shill... surely not a good buisness arrengement!

 

[Mod 8]

Hello everyone,

MERB moderators are aware of this situation and are investigating. In the meantime, as long as no names or direct accusations are being posted, this thread will remain open so that those who are interested may give their opinion as in any other thread.

If any speculations are made that may point to any member in particular, the thread will be immediately closed and removed. Keep the discussion in general terms please.

Mod 8

 

[Tracy]

I am wondering on this topic... not the idea of a free service for a review, but even asking the client if he would post a review (after a legit encounter) ...
I have done this in the past (asked clients if they would be willing to post) but have always stated that the review MUST (under all circumstances) be 100% honest, and I let them know that even if there was any negative experience or thought, they should most definitely post it, as that is the only way for a person to improve...

Is that still concidered a shill?

And what of offering a reduced rate to board members, I would think that the main reason to offer such a thing, would be to promote review writing.
But if the person is honest about it, is it a shill...
Then the question is... How do we know that the person is being honest, unless just simply stating at the beginning of the review that he took advantage of a discount offered and is in turn writing a review?


There are so many grey areas with this I think...

But I always thought that the idea that others had of advertizing a reduced rate for members was truly a good idea..

I dunno, maybe I am thinking too much of this.

I think that there should be a maybe option to the poll.

You can never know if the person is writing an honest review or not whether the service was great or poor, exchange or no exchange... Too many variables

 

[Sexy_BBW_Véro]

Hello Merlot ,

You illustrated very well my thought and what i was trying to explain in my first post .

For Corleone ... the paragraph you seems to don't understand ... I was telling ... if someone call a girl and make this kind of deal ... Reviews for free encounter ... the girl gonna do everything to have the best reviews as possible ... and sometimes , the same girl is not really that much enthousiastic during a normal encounter so ...

Finally . Merlot explained my thought better than myself loll

Ho and Corleone ... You are right , he only call me on the phone 2-3 times so I can't be sure at 100% if it's really the member he told me he was buuuuuttt ... in the context, I'm still sure at 99% that it's him .

 

[Techman]

I think that a major factor would be if the reviewer discloses that he has received a discount in exchange for posting the review. That way everyone that reads the review can make up their own mind as to whether the review is worth the time it took to read it or not. If someone starts a thread on a never before reviewed SP and writes a glowing review and then the following reviews contradict the original post then it should be obvious that the the original post was less than honest.

Another thing to consider is that if a provider knows in advance that she will be reviewed, she might just give a bit more effort during the encounter. And that brings us back to the old question of whether a merbite should reveal his handle to a SP, MP or dancer and use that to pressure a girl into giving a service above what she would usually give knowing that a bad review would hurt her future business. Board blackmail, in other words.

Whatever way you look at it, unless a reviewer discloses he has received a discount or a freebie, I would consider him to be a shill. And I would include discounts or freebies as a result of compensation for problems that happened on a previous date. This should also be mentioned in a review.

And a disclaimer of my own: these are the views of an interested observer and grateful reader of other's encounters as I do not myself partake in the pleasures of the escort side of the hobby. But I like to think that what I am reading is at least a truthful account!

Techman

 

[benxxx]

And what of offering a reduced rate to board members, I would think that the main reason to offer such a thing, would be to promote review writing.But if the person is honest about it, is it a shill...
Then the question is... How do we know that the person is being honest, unless just simply stating at the beginning of the review that he took advantage of a discount offered and is in turn writing a review?

I don't realy see how a member discount ( no strings attached ) would affect the validity of a review...unless the girl, knowing the client is a reviewer and assuming a review will ensue consiously or not put a little more effort in her service. but that would be a possibility with any client mentioning being a reviewer... as for the actual review, i don't think that a member discount would keep a poster from being honest about the encounter.

 

[Merlot]

And what of offering a reduced rate to board members, I would think that the main reason to offer such a thing, would be to promote review writing.

No I would say the "main reason" is to immediately stimulate business.

.

Whatever way you look at it, unless a reviewer discloses he has received a discount or a freebie, I would consider him to be a shill. And I would include discounts or freebies as a result of compensation for problems that happened on a previous date. This should also be mentioned in a review.

And a disclaimer of my own: these are the views of an interested observer and grateful reader of other's encounters as I do not myself partake in the pleasures of the escort side of the hobby. But I like to think that what I am reading is at least a truthful account!

Techman

Hello Techman,

I don't see a discount as shilling...unless the obvious or stated purpose is to slant a review. Every hobbyists who has been around for any length of time has received a discount. Maybe the agency wanted more business generally, there was a lesser rate for multiple hours, or the agency wanted to help a new lady become better known. There are many reasons for discounts that are definitely not shilling.

Generally, shilling is far too broadly defined. In my view, it's the purposeful distortion of a review for favors or dishonest promotion. Your suggested parameters could infer any situation where the giving of the service or the reporting of it distorts the truth. The problem is that 100% prevention is impossible. We human creatures with all of our emotions, broadly varying preferences of many sorts, and variations in predisposed tendencies of perception carry all of these possibly distorting factors with us and so therefore uniform honesty is an impossibility. Then there are other factors know here as YMMV, in the reactions to the other person of either the escort or the client that will inevitably slant reviews. In short...some distortion is inevitable and rarely intentional. That is not shilling. It's just all of those factors we carry with us that can never make the outcome as predictable or allow the same uniformity as some scientifically controlled experiment.

Given all of the natural things that go into making the outcome and/or the perceptions of individuals when trying to be honest in a review, either we can deal with and allow for the imperfect factors that make a review; or we can be rigid about honesty, intentions, and human quirks and just say in view of these flaws that we all shill since we can't be have perfect conditions or be perfectly reflections of each other. After all, how can any one expect absolutely honesty from a client trying to remember events when he had little or no blood flow to the brain in his "head"...lol.

Yes...you did it to me BABY!

Merlot

 

[Techman]

Hello Techman,

I don't see a discount as shilling...unless the obvious or stated purpose is to slant a review. Every hobbyists who has been around for any length of time has received a discount. Maybe the agency wanted more business generally, there was a lesser rate for multiple hours, or the agency wanted to help a new lady become better known. There are many reasons for discounts that are definitely not shilling.

...
Merlot

I agree that there are many reasons for which a discount can be given. But if the reason for the discount is directly related to the client writing a review then it should be disclosed. I can accept how receiving a discount for any other legitimate reason, such as compensation for a bad date, should not have to be mentioned. But if the discount has been given for the distinct purpose to write a review, then it should be disclosed because that means that the review has been paid for.

In magazines and newspapers you regularily see advertisements that are formated and presented as news articles but at the bottom or at the top of the 'article' there is a note that states that the 'article' is actually a paid advertisement. This would be similar to a reviewer that has accepted a discount for the express purpose of writing a review. It is basically a paid advertisement, whether it states the truth or not because if the discount was not given there is a good chance that the client would have never seen that particular SP.

If there is a chance that the discount may be the deciding factor in booking an appointment, it should be disclosed. If there is a chance that a review would not have been written without the discount, it should be disclosed. Especially if the discount has been offered to or requested by a poster whose reviews tend to lead to increased business due to his reputation on merb.

If a discount is offered for reviews, an advertiser should be upfront about it and include that notice in their advertising on the board and the discount should be available to all members, not only certain ones. Discounts should not be YMMV depending on someone's status on the board. If they are, then that is shilling.

Techman

 

[Techman]

I don't think I'm being unrealistic. I've seen a number of agencies advertising on both boards that have offered special discounts for board members no matter their status on the board and with no demand to post a review.

My point is that a discount shouldn't be based on writing a review. No matter how honest someone is, I believe the fact they have gotten a discount in return for a review might just change a borderline final rating from a not recommended to a recommended rating. I just think that people should have the right to know of that possibility.

I'm also realistic enough to know that the chances of most reviewers admitting they received a discount in exchange for a review are just about nil. At least I can't remember ever reading that in even one review to date.

Techman

 

[metoo4]

IMHO, we must make a difference between a freebee an a reasonnable discount and, as other mentionned, the discount should be mentionned in the review if this discount was given explicitely for a review. A freebee is IMHO again, going overboard and practically just trying to buy a good review.

Now who can offer a discount for a review? An indy or an agency owner?
As others mentionned, knowingly or not, what girl won't make an effort if she know she'll get reviewed on this specific encounter? Even for culinary reviews, one of the guiding principles to accuracy in anonymity! Just look at how the Michelin guides are made.

This basically rules-out any independent girl from the "purchased review" field, possibly leaving only the agency girls for who the agency owner want a review, without the girl knowing she'll be reviewed. If not, the review will be biased, not because of the reviewer but because of the girl getting reviewed.

 

[metoo4]

it isnt allow on merb

No rules that I know about this.
You can't solicitate on MERB but for a customer saying he got a discount, why not?

 

[Mod 8]

Obviously shilling is not permitted on the board. But any member is free to mention that he received a discount if he wishes to do so. There is no rule against being truthful.

Mod 8

 

[montreal_monk01]

Great point. Something is sure, it's very close to the principle of "being bought".
That does not necessarily force the hobbyist to shill / it does not necessarily imply shilling neither but the credibility of the hobbyist's review will be covered of clouds... I personally strongly stay away from those freebie stuff or "too friendly hobbyist-provider relationship"...just lead to sometime not professional interraction!

 

[hormone]

a freebie is not a shill, but...

I don't realy see how a member discount ( no strings attached ) would affect the validity of a review...unless the girl, knowing the client is a reviewer and assuming a review will ensue consiously or not put a little more effort in her service. but that would be a possibility with any client mentioning being a reviewer... as for the actual review, i don't think that a member discount would keep a poster from being honest about the encounter.

A shill is a false report of an encounter, usually an encounter that did not happen! But it's still not very honest, especially if not mentionned. In french, we'd say "c'est pas ben correct!".

Now, Benxxx, I can easily see how it affects the validity of a review! In multiple ways! You mention them yourself! It's called marketting! It's like if you were to say "I don't see why I should worry about TV commercials influencing my behaviour, I know ther are commercials"... Well, that's why they pay so much to get these ads on the superbowl!

1- the girl if she accepts is likely to provide more enthousiastic service to ensure a very positive review... so it's not "par" for the service-attitude, etc. Some services may also be unusually offered...

2- The client: he gets a free roll in the hay... Unless the encouter is totally bad (ugly girl, terrible breath, poor skills, no SOG), most guys would not turn away a free fuck. So it's likely he'll write a positive review here, in order to get more! The more you write positive reviews, the more likely you are to write another positive one later on. And we all know the power of a positive review from "respected"/"senior" members. I am not targetting "senior" guys here, just poiting out the irony of the term... This is why I really am on the lookout for negative reviews form certain members, especially since they've been receiving legitimate free time from some agencies. I want to ascertain if they are maintaining their objectivity (again, I am not targetting anyone here and I do consider those hours to be legit! but good marketing!!!).

As an aside: it has been showed that research sponsored by industry in any domain has a much higher likelyhood of showing positive results for the products being tested that independant research...