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Roman Polanski arrested in Switzerland

Doc Holliday

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I guess they decided the 'statute of limitations' applied here. He won, they lost. Good for him. And i do hope that the woman is finally left alone & can go on with her life. Same for him. A trial would have been another waste of taxpayers' money & another media circus. We've had enough of those in the past 16 years.
 
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Dee

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I guess they decided the 'statute of limitations' applied here. He won, they lost. Good for him. And i do hope that the woman is finally left alone & can go on with her life. Same for him. A trial would have been another waste of taxpayers' money & another media circus. We've had enough of those in the past 16 years.

Simply not true. Read the Globe and Mail article.
 

JH Fan

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Disgusting, absolutely disgusting... and imagine... it will make some on the board happy.

It's all beyond me.

It's a good thing to get this in the news to attract attention but it's stupid to concentrate only on this case if :

1-You don't respect the victim's wish.
2-You overlook totally what is the situation about rape (specially in the US).

Cuze if they just get away with getting this guy behind bars and then turn around saying they did their job about rape then it is just another case of hypocrisy. Which in any case we had way too many of these.

The real proof of this will be, once Polanski's case go away from the media attention if... the issue of rape will be dealt with.
 

Kepler

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... it's stupid to concentrate only on this case if :...
1-You don't respect the victim's wish.

In Islam (eg: Saudi Arabia), victims are allowed to accept 'blood money' and the charges against the guilty are set aside. It's victims' choice.

In 'The West', we view things differently. Victims have little or no say in prosecutions, because we think crimes are an assault on the whole community.

This guy raped a 13 year old girl, and then made a mockery of the justice system for years. I hope the prosecutors keep hounding him until he faces a jury of his peers like anyone else.
 

Voyager

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I hope the prosecutors keep hounding him until he faces a jury of his peers like anyone else.

Just taking Kepler's comment to remind everyone of the facts... Polanski did face a jury of his peers, and was found guilty of drugging & raping a 13yr old girl. Because of his celebrity, he was allowed to remain free until he was sentenced & sent to jail. Before that hearing, he fled the US, and has lived primarily in countries that protected him.
 

JH Fan

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In 'The West', we view things differently. Victims have little or no say in prosecutions, because we think crimes are an assault on the whole community.

"So we shouldn't care about the victim and feel that it is an assault against us ?"

I think we are in 'The West' a bunch of hypocrites when it comes to the 'real' victims.

If the whole community like you say would 'realy' feel this way, then there wouldn't be so many rapes in 'The West' cuze the 'whole community' would really know what it means.

Tell you what : I will applaud if I see in the news something like : 'We couldn't get this SOB but we will work on a way to change this 'whole community' cuze everyone should feel ashamed of the amount of rape in our community'.

Fair enough ?
 

Techman

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Just taking Kepler's comment to remind everyone of the facts... Polanski did face a jury of his peers, and was found guilty of drugging & raping a 13yr old girl. Because of his celebrity, he was allowed to remain free until he was sentenced & sent to jail. Before that hearing, he fled the US, and has lived primarily in countries that protected him.

If you're gonna remind people of the facts, you should get them straight. Polanski never went to trial, never faced a jury of his peers and has never been found guilty. He agreed to a plea bargain on a lesser charge that was proposed by the prosecutor. There's a big difference.

And the reason he's free today is again the fault of the American justice system because they refused to turn over transcripts of 'secret testimony' to the Swiss authorities. Now my question is what the hell is in those transcripts and why was there 'secret testimony' in this case? If it has a bearing on the case, the Swiss should be allowed to review it with the proviso that the contents cannot be released to the public. Once again, they shoot themselves in the foot. Fools.

http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2010/07/12/r_xoxh1dnmtlspljmvw_vqg/index.xml

The Swiss government said its decision to reject extradition for Polanski was based in part on U.S. authorities failing to turn over transcripts of secret testimony given by the attorney who originally handled the director's case. The testimony remains sealed, and can only be used if the former prosecutor was unavailable for an evidentiary hearing, a Los Angeles court spokesman said.
The testimony "should prove" that Polanski actually served his sentence while undergoing a court-ordered diagnostic study after charges were filed, the Swiss Justice Ministry said.
"If this were the case, Roman Polanski would actually have already served his sentence and therefore both the proceedings on which the U.S. extradition request is founded and the request itself would have no foundation," the ministry said. They also noted that Polanski's victim, Samantha Geimer, has repeatedly asked that the case be dropped.

In other news...Mel Gibson is considering applying for French citizenship and moving to Switzerland. :cool:
 

Kepler

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Polanski did face a jury of his peers, and was found guilty

I should have been clearer: I want him to face a jury for the additional crime of fleeing justice. And to face a judge for the original crime (he had not yet been sentenced).

"So we shouldn't care about the victim and feel that it is an assault against us ?"

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said or implied that. I only described our system. And I don't see how the fact that other people get away with rape/murder/theft changes anything about this case.


what the hell is in those transcripts

That's explained in the link you provide: it relates to whether or not he would have been sentenced to more time in jail. It's a purely technical issue. He can raise that point when he contests his case before the US court like every other defendant.

There is no great conspiracy here. Everyone agrees on the basic facts. He plied a girl with drugs. She didn't want to have sex with him. He then raped her vaginally and anally. He then plead guilty. Even if she were 18 instead of 13, it would be a straight rape case.
 

JH Fan

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Don't put words in my mouth, I never said or implied that. I only described our system. And I don't see how the fact that other people get away with rape/murder/theft changes anything about this case.

1st- You wrote it

2nd- I don`t see the fact that you nail this guy will change anything about the situation of rape in our society.
Which is far, far more important than this particular case.

3rd- Didn`t say anything about murder and theft ? (Don`t put words in my mouth).
 

Doc Holliday

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This guy raped a 13 year old girl, and then made a mockery of the justice system for years. I hope the prosecutors keep hounding him until he faces a jury of his peers like anyone else.

You're right. The US justice system is indeed a mockery. Seriously, as a taxpayer, don't you think they'd have better things to do with your money instead of forever 'hounding' an old man for a frivolous rape charge? The so-called 'victim' herself wants the matter to go away & that he be left alone.
 

Doc Holliday

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Just taking Kepler's comment to remind everyone of the facts... Polanski did face a jury of his peers, and was found guilty of drugging & raping a 13yr old girl. Because of his celebrity, he was allowed to remain free until he was sentenced & sent to jail. Before that hearing, he fled the US, and has lived primarily in countries that protected him.

You also forgot to mention that a plea bargain had been agreed upon, which the judge later renegged on.
 

Doc Holliday

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If you're gonna remind people of the facts, you should get them straight. Polanski never went to trial, never faced a jury of his peers and has never been found guilty. He agreed to a plea bargain on a lesser charge that was proposed by the prosecutor. There's a big difference.

And the reason he's free today is again the fault of the American justice system because they refused to turn over transcripts of 'secret testimony' to the Swiss authorities. Now my question is what the hell is in those transcripts and why was there 'secret testimony' in this case? If it has a bearing on the case, the Swiss should be allowed to review it with the proviso that the contents cannot be released to the public. Once again, they shoot themselves in the foot. Fools.

I couldn't have said it any better. :D
 

Kepler

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1st- You wrote it

I wrote no such thing. My post is unedited for all to see.


2nd- I don`t see the fact that you nail this guy will change anything about the situation of rape in our society.

You're right. But I don't see that as a reason to let him get away. In fact, if rapists (or criminals generally) see that they can escape justice by hiding long enough, it will only encourage more rapes/crimes. Wouldn't you agree?


as a taxpayer, don't you think they'd have better things to do with your money instead of forever 'hounding' an old man for a frivolous rape charge?

The charge is not frivolous, it's a rape. That he admits committing. I don't understand your other argument. He's only an old man because he's been on the run for so long. If criminals know that they can escape punishment by hiding for 20 years, then it encourages others to run too.


You also forgot to mention that a plea bargain had been agreed upon, which the judge later renegged on.

Judges are never bound by plea bargains. They are always allowed to reject bad bargains.

And I think 42 days for drugging and raping a child is damn ridiculous. Shame on the prosecutors for ever agreeing on such a lenient sentence!

Luckily the LA prosecutors have already stated that they will keep trying to get him. One day, he'll slip up again.
 

Merlot

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Hmmm,

If you're gonna remind people of the facts, you should get them straight. Polanski never went to trial, never faced a jury of his peers and has never been found guilty. He agreed to a plea bargain on a lesser charge that was proposed by the prosecutor. There's a big difference.

And the reason he's free today is again the fault of the American justice system because they refused to turn over transcripts of 'secret testimony' to the Swiss authorities. Now my question is what the hell is in those transcripts and why was there 'secret testimony' in this case? If it has a bearing on the case, the Swiss should be allowed to review it with the proviso that the contents cannot be released to the public. Once again, they shoot themselves in the foot. Fools.

In other news...Mel Gibson is considering applying for French citizenship and moving to Switzerland. :cool:

Actually, he'd be free TODAY in any case because by now he would have served out any likely sentence, even a harsh one. More accurately, the reason he never paid for the crime of statutory rape (exactly what it was) is he ran. You seem to keep missing the fact that in the U.S.: "Plea bargains are subject to the approval of the court, and different States and jurisdictions have different rules." I am not exactly sure what precise legal rules applied in this case, but if as in most cases the court had to give approval to the plea bargain in this case then Polanki's lawyer would have known very well that the judge was not bound by the existence of any plea agreement itself. If so there was no tricky or breach of the legal rules, no dishonesty by the judge at all...and any contention that Polanski was justified in running because he was betrayed is totally false.

Now right here I went to the transcript to see if I could find exactly what the judge was legally bound to under the laws of California in the event of a plea bargain. Here is an excerpt from the transcript specifically spelling out the judge's legal latitude in this particular case. The prosecutor Gunson is specifically going over the legal ramifications of the plea agreement with Polanski and his lawyer. Here are the "facts":

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0928091polanskiplea10.html

Gunson (Prosecuting attorney) : Did you understand that she was 13 on March 10, 1977, when you had sexual intercourse with her?

Defendant (Polanski): Yes.

Gunson: Has anyone threatened you or threatened anyone near and dear to you, in order to get you to plead guilty?

Defendent (Polanski): No.

Gunson: The District Attorney will make a motion to dismiss the remaining pending charges after sentencing. Other than that promise has anyone made any promises to you, such as a lesser sentence or probation, or any reward?

Defendant: No.

Gunson: Do you have any questions about your plea?

Defendant: No.

Gunson: Are you pleading guilty freely and voluntarily?

Defendant: Yes.

Gunson: Mr. Dalton (Polanski’s attorney) Do you believe that you have had sufficient time to discuss this case and all of it’s ramifications with you client?

Dalton: Yes.

Gunson: Have you fully discussed with him his rights, his defenses, and the possible consequences to him of his plea of guilty?

Dalton: Yes.

Gunson: Are you aware of any promises that have been made to your client, that have not been stated on the record and in open court today?

Dalton: No.

Gunson: Do you consent to the plea?

Dalton: Yes.

Gunson: Your Honor, may I take the plea?

The Court (Judge): Before you do so, however, I must advise the defendant, under section 1192.5 of the penal code, that the approval of the court to the plea is not binding to the court; that the court may, at the time set for hearing on the application for probation or pronouncement or judgment, withdraw it’s approval, in light of further consideration of the matter; and three, in such case, the defendant will be able to withdraw his plea, if he desires to do so.

Now Mr. Polanski – and the court will also make a finding at this time that the plea was freely and voluntarily made, and that there is a factual basis for it.

You may now proceed to take the plea.

Gunson: Mr. Polanski to Court III if indictment number A-334139, which charges you with the commission of unlawful sexual intercourse on March 10, 1977, a felony, how do you plead?

Defendant (Polanski): Guilty.

Gunson: Your Honor, does the Court make a finding that Mr. Polanski knew and understood his constitutional rights?

The Court: I have made such a finding.

Gunson: And does the Court also make a finding that Mr. Polanski knows of the consequences of his plea?

Defendant: Yes.

Court: Yes.

Skipping ahead to page 17, line 10 of the transcript.

In as much as the defendant has been convicted of a felony sex offense involving a child under the age of 14 years–namely, unlawful sexual intercourse in violation of section 261.5 of the penal code, by plea of guilty on this date, August 18, 1977--it is therefor the order of the Court that criminal proceeding be adjourned.


So Techman et al, Polanski and his lawyer were specifically legally aware that the judge/court had every right under the California penal legal regulations to reject the plea in the end despite any plea agreement. So all of your insistence that there was a trick or betrayal by the judge, or that Polanski was in any way justified ethically or morally, as regards clear legal procedure, to run is totally invalid.

You may say the penal code regulations suck. Your opinion may still be that he had every right to run in your personal view of ethics and morality, and I may even agree with you to some extent that I don't think the court should be able to change a plea agreement everyone including the court agreed to. But legally the court did nothing unethical or immoral, and technically according to THE plea agreement Polanski and his lawyer accepted under oath, Polanski is a convicted felon...and therefor...a fugitive. These are the legal facts. Period!

The transcript is definitive on all of these points

Cheers,

Merlot

PS
 
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daydreamer41

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Just taking Kepler's comment to remind everyone of the facts... Polanski did face a jury of his peers, and was found guilty of drugging & raping a 13yr old girl. Because of his celebrity, he was allowed to remain free until he was sentenced & sent to jail. Before that hearing, he fled the US, and has lived primarily in countries that protected him.

Your statement is incorrect. He was going to plead guilty. He never had a jury trial. He got word that the Judge was going to reject the plea deal based on a conversation with a prosecutor who did not have anything to do with the case.

The Swiss Court wanted a transcript that supposedly existed

The Swiss government said its decision to reject extradition was partly based on U.S. authorities' failure to turn over transcripts of secret testimony given by the attorney who originally handled the director's case, in which could prove that Polanski already served his sentence.
 

Merlot

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Hello Daydreamer,

Gunson: Are you aware of any promises that have been made to your client, that have not been stated on the record and in open court today?

Dalton: No.

Cheers,

Merlot

Your statement is incorrect. He was going to plead guilty. He never had a jury trial. He got word that the Judge was going to reject the plea deal based on a conversation with a prosecutor who did not have anything to do with the case.

The Swiss Court wanted a transcript that supposedly existed

The Swiss government said its decision to reject extradition was partly based on U.S. authorities' failure to turn over transcripts of secret testimony given by the attorney who originally handled the director's case, in which could prove that Polanski already served his sentence.

This "secret testimony" stuff is the worst and easiest sort of BS dodge anyone can make. How convenient that there is some concocted mystery element you can point to when the recorded facts don't support your point. And if there was anything like that possible, then Polanski's lawyer either refutes that completely or he purgered himself under oath in the section of the transcript I provided.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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daydreamer41

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Hello Daydreamer,





This "secret testimony" stuff is the worst and easiest sort of BS dodge anyone can make. How convenient that there is some concocted mystery element you can point to when the recorded facts don't support your point. And if there was anything like that possible, then Polanski's lawyer either refutes that completely or he purgered himself under oath in the section of the transcript I provided.

Cheers,

Merlot

I am not sure I understand your post. Can you explain it?

I was only repeating what was said in the media. As for any secret testimony, etc., I have no idea what actually happened. I have read repeatedly that Polanski and his lawyer worked out a deal with the prosecution that he would submit himself to mental evaluation and be credited for time served. The Judge was said to back out of the deal (which Judges can) at Sentencing and Polansk fled back to Europe.

There was some kind of television investigation which alleged that there was outside legal communication with the Judge in charge of the case. I do not know what happened. I make no claims or opinions one way or the other. Polanski dodged a bullet again and if he is smart he will stay in France until he dies.

So what is your point, Merlot?
 
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Merlot

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I am not sure I understand your post. Can you explain it?

I was only repeating what was said in the media. As for any secret testimony, etc., I have no idea what actually happened. I have read repeatedly that Polanski and his lawyer worked out a deal with the prosecution that he would submit himself to mental evaluation and be credited for time served. The Judge was said to back out of the deal (which Judges can) at Sentencing and Polansk fled back to Europe.

There was some kind of television investigation which alleged that there was outside legal communication with the Judge in charge of the case. I do not know what happened. I make no claims or opinions one way or the other. Polanski dodged a bullet again and if he is smart he will stay in France until he dies.

So what is your point, Merlot?

Hello Daydreamer,

Post # 75 of this thread. I gave everyone the link to the transcript on this point, and I copied this section of the transcript in the post. Even if this post wasn't there all one has to do is google "Polanski Transcript" and he would have everything he needs for the truth. In short, all this conspiracy stuff against Polanki is total and absolute nonsense. Can't see how you missed it.

Maybe some of you who take incomplete or faulty information from the media and think you know the facts should look at the real facts when they are readily available.

Cheers,

Merlot
 
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daydreamer41

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Hello Daydreamer,

Post # 75 of this thread. I gave everyone the link to the transcript on this point, and I copied this section of the transcript in the post. Even if this post wasn't there all one has to do is google "Polanski Transcript" and he would have everything he needs for the truth. In short, all this conspiracy stuff against Polanki is total and absolute nonsense. Can't see how you missed it.

Maybe some of you who take incomplete or faulty information from the media and think you know the facts should look at the real facts when they are readily available.

Cheers,

Merlot

Merlot,

I was not claiming anything. All I was doing was responding to Voyager's post in which he stated that Polanski was convicted by a jury. A jury never heard his case. Polanski fled. He pled guilty to sex with a minor and not rape which he probably did with the intention of plea bargaining.

Whether Polanski was right or wrong was not my intention, or whether the Swiss court was correct or not, likewise. I do not know enough to have an opinion. I am not sure I want to investigate the matter either. I was merely responding to Voyager's post. Polanski never had a trial before a jury. But any argument for now is moot if Polanski stays in France for the rest of his life.
 

Doc Holliday

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If criminals know that they can escape punishment by hiding for 20 years, then it encourages others to run too.

Criminals wouldn't have a chance to run away if the US justice system wouldn't be so incompetent. It has nothing to do with the Polanski case. I'd run also if i'd find out that the judge is trying to screw me & use me as an example by sending me to prison for a much longer time than agreed upon. The only reason Polanski never came back to the US was because he got screwed by the incompetent US justice system.

And I think 42 days for drugging and raping a child is damn ridiculous. Shame on the prosecutors for ever agreeing on such a lenient sentence!

Where were her parents? This "child" was already sexually active & into the drug scene by the time she met Polanski. I'm not saying that what eventually happened was correct, but there's a whole lot of difference between an 'innocent child' being raped and molested & what happened here. And if you consider the prosecutors should be ashamed for agreeing to such a lenient sentence, blame the incompetent US justice system, not Polanski. A deal's a deal.
 
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