Should all new SPs be labeled YMMV the first year?

[General Gonad]

The recent thread on Brittany from Eleganza made me think a lot of YMMV, especially as it pertains to young, new SPs that are breaking into the scene. Do they really know what they're getting into? Can you really coach them into being GFE right from the getgo? Are we the clients too demanding with new ladies that are often very young and inexperienced in terms of the hobby? Has the label "YMMV" gotten a bad wrap? Is "GFE" code for "Good for Earnings"?

All this to say that maybe all new young ladies breaking into the scene should be labeled YMMV for a minimum of 1 year. Of course, there will be exceptions, but I think this would be more appropriate and remove a lot of pressure on them. It will also temper clients' expectations which are often uncomprimising.

As always, I will enjoy reading your comments on this idea.

GG

P.S. The minimum time period can be six months or less. I chose a year but it was purely arbitrary.

 

[Rex Kramer]

For the sake of argument let's assume that we all agree on the definition of GFE and YMMV.

I think there are distinct differences between GFE vs YMMV and debutant SPs vs Experienced SPs that labelling debutant SPs as YMMV would not highlight the differences, and would be confusing.

A FS Health Club I used to visit had their new and inexperienced ladies wear a tag that says "Trainee." It puts the clients on notice not to expect the usual skill and service levels and to prepare for some "unprofessional" moments which are to be expected from ladies who are still learning. This sets up a realistic expectation on the part of the clients, and let them decide if they want to see these newbies. It also allows the newbies to be selective with people they are more comfortable while they are learning on the job and are nervous and anxious to begin with. It seems to be much easier on the ego when someone is told "I am not allowed to accept client yet" compared to "I am not taking you because I am not comfortable with you."

Maybe GFE Trainee, GFE Understudy, or GFE in Training?

 

[Regular Guy]

Tools

IMHO the terms YMMV and GFE are simply tools for the hobbiest. They are attempts to impose some kind of standard to improve the quality of the encounters.

I believe they do the following:

• Attempt to impose some kind of integrity to the level of service offered
• Address the issue of sp imposed restrictions
• Give recognition to those sp's who provide a superior level of service
• Help raise the awareness within an agency as to the value of services offered by their sp's
• Reward the sp's who excel
• Help to weed out those who do not belong
• Help promote debate and set goals to improve the quality of encounters
• Assist clients to find the exact level of service they desire
• Address the issue of expectations for the client and sp

This is by no means an exhaustive list and I have endeavoured to avoid redundancies here. The bottom line is I believe these terms are here to stay. They are simply far too useful to eliminate. Now as to the issue of Brittany, I can't help but feel that these terms helped to illuminate the issue as to her performance that much more clearly. And in that respect have helped to set the benchmark by which hobbiests will assess an sp's performance. Now I realize that all this sounds very clinical and that sp's and hobbiests are human beings with their own particular perversities,however, I feel that we still need to attempt to set goals and impose some kinds of standards for the welfare of all.

 

[Just-ass-weet]

[*]Address the issue of sp imposed restrictions

I have to totally disagree with this - the ONLY person who should be deciding where the restrictions are IS the SP - not the agency and not the client.

Now, GFE to me, is kind of a stupid term. I know many ladies in ``real-life`` who would never consider giving a bj, who wouldn`t dfk, who don`t do alot of things that are commonly referred to as GFE. All terms that bind each session into a bunch of alphabet soup is, at least to me, boring or nerve-wrecking.

I think it is more important that if any GFE services are offered, that they not be charged extra for, THAT to me is real GFE. I know that isn`t practical for Joe and Tom who are seeking and some dfk, but having someone else (especially a male owner - sorry - I do have a something against them) PROMISE that you that she will suck the guys dick and swallow your cum is just not right IMHO.

My 2 cents

xoxox
Anik

 

[Regular Guy]

The other side of the equation

Now, GFE to me, is kind of a stupid term. I know many ladies in "real-life" who would never consider giving a bj, who wouldn't dfk, who don't do alot of things that are commonly referred to as GFE. All terms that bind each session into a bunch of alphabet soup is, at least to me, boring or nerve-wrecking.

Now I can certainly understand from your point of view eliminating these terms. You can pick and choose who is to get this very special experience. And I am not saying you would try to abuse that privilege. But the terms GFE and YMMV have become part of the dialogue of the review process. And if eliminating them is the case then we should modify the whole review process here to say, "Just pay your money up front and take what you get." For example, did those who tried the young escort Brittany above have the right to complain. SK was not happy with the fact that he got less of an experience than some others were reporting. Should he just suck it up and be happy that she even graced him with her presence? Would not the YMMV on her profile have given him one more useful piece of information so that he could have entered into the encounter with an element of caution in his expectations. Ask him.

Second, do these terms not help a hobbiest find the right experience for himself. To some guys these things are not important. These terms help to profile the girls so that both (the sp and the hobbiest) have a better chance of being satisfied with the experience. There is an sp for everybody; the trick is to find her without going through many disappointing experiences for both.

If including these terms as part of the review process helps to weed out girls who really shouldn't be in the game or agency operators who misrepresent what they claim to offer then isn't that a good thing? A vague promise has netted many a shady operator some poor sucker's hard earned cash. You know, in one post Kaempherand made an excellent point. Pay full price and don't even discuss that element of it. Doing that ensures you the right to expect performance. Does he have that right or if he pays and just gets a wrinkle, should he just suck it up? Ask him.

Upon rereading my post Anik, I realize that I came across as more clinical and colder than I intended. It honestly wasn't my intention to reduce the choice of an sp to that of purchasing a side of beef. If I did I apologize. I realize that sp's are human beings, and believe me; If you had some boorish oaf with poor hygiene who was being less than a gentleman, or even if the chemistry was fire and gasoline I would be the first to defend your actions to impose restrictions. But why not use these terms. Like anything in life it is all about perspective. Some sp's are people persons and can see the good in a wide variety of guys and manage to find common ground with most of them and can cheerfully offer GFE. Other girls know themselves and simply cannot fake what is not part of their personality. They are quite happy, indeed would appreciate, being able to serve fair warning to hobbiests. If only for that fact then are not these terms useful? It's not a perfect world especially not in this game but unlike the "ladies in 'real life'" you describe, sp'ing has a service element to it. Don't you think everyone should at least have a fighting chance to get the best bang for their buck? BTW I still admire your positive attitude. I wish you well.

 

[Just-ass-weet]

I, in no way, know what I am talking about!

When I talk about getting rid of the term GFE I mean with reference to agencies and girls themselves. In reviews, that is where the term at least has some use. If you want to talk about escorting - originally (in fact up until maybe 4 years ago) GFE wasn`t really expected in the same way as it is now. It was considered a privelege that the girl did more than FS or BJ.

But now show me an exact definition of GFE? None exists. Yea, we have a list of jumbled letters, but GFE is a heck of alot more than a , DFK and (or it can be less for some), one guys GFE is anothers PSE or HE or doesn`t live up to any of those alpha-isms.

SK was not treated the same as others is exactly my point... she fucked him didn`t she (sorry I never read the review) as people like to point out to my romantic view on things - THAT`s is what he paid for... anything else HAS to be YMMV - it just has to be. There is not one lady who has not enountered a guy that should didn`t do ``GFE`` things with and it isn`t always because of looks, smell, or whatever else. Sometimes it just doesn`t feel natural to.

The last thing ladies want to do is bring along a GFE checklist

- okay - check
Dfk - okay -check (oh, was it deep enough - maybe that was lfk - oh, I hope he doesn`t protest)
Oh shit - I didn`t lick his balls, I better go back down
Okay, let me on top for a minute, now him (good multi-pos covered - check)
No, you have to come again or I cannot check msog - you MUST!!

Let me re-iterate here - GFE services are great, and should be part of the general cost of a session, but 100% expecting them is unrealistic. Actually, most likely, the less you expect, the more bang you will get for your buck.

xoxox
Anik

 

[Regular Guy]

Further......

But now show me an exact definition of GFE? None exists. Yea, we have a list of jumbled letters, but GFE is a heck of alot more than a , DFK and (or it can be less for some), one guys GFE is anothers PSE or HE or doesn`t live up to any of those alpha-isms.

The concept of GFE has been debated ad nauseum. You are correct in saying you wont find it in Websters. But I think by now it is safe to say we have a pretty good idea of what it entails. I have my own ideas on the subject.

[/URL``]https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=129097&postcount=39``][/URL

So please don’t attempt to simplify it by saying it is simply a shopping list of acronyms. We both know better. So how do you make love without being in love? I have on several wonderful instances in the past met someone at a disco or a house party, took them home, and enjoyed some of the most incredible lovemaking. She was there for me. I have to laugh at the fellow who posted with the comment that his sp seemed more interested in an episode of the Simpsons which she had playing on TV than what he was doing with her. Humourous to read but I’ll bet he wasn’t laughing at the time.

I went back and researched the topic again as it seems to have come up again here. I came across a posting from an sp who is resident in Ontario. I quote this because this lady, I believe, has the attitude and the answer to resolving the personal conflicts which may arise from sp’ing and I hope you will cut me some slack here as I realize I am on the other side of the equation:

I started working in this industry only to fulfil my own fantasy. I was looking into it for a friend who wanted quick money. I was so intrigued by the whole thing I thought I would give it a try. The idea of getting paid made it exciting....not knowing who was going to be on the other side of the door made my heart pound.

I thought I would do it a couple of times and that would be it. Just fill my own fantasy and say good bye. Well it is almost 2yrs since i started and I am still here. Why? because I am Fascinated by every single person who is on the other side of my door. I love to hear there stories. I listen intently as each share a bit about themselves and I smile when they feel compelled to tell me why they are in my arms.

I think the one thing that has kept me here so long, it is not the sex but the companionship I provide. (ok yes the money is good...but I have never had a problem making money). I am surprised at how many men are in need of basic female contact by someone who is friendly and caring.

it`s a hard job that`s for sure

there are ladies who love their job regardless, there are ladies who hate their job but do it anyway, there are ladies who have ups and downs

When I talk about getting rid of the term GFE I mean with reference to agencies and girls themselves. In reviews, that is where the term at least has some use. If you want to talk about escorting - originally (in fact up until maybe 4 years ago) GFE wasn`t really expected in the same way as it is now. It was considered a privelege that the girl did more than FS or BJ.

Two things to consider here:

First, the best agency owners take the time to know their girls and as well take the time to counsel the client to help him find the best fit. Part of that is identifying his needs. The concept if not the labels goes a long way towards that end. So this form of profiling would take place anyway whether the terms were used or not. And in a sense I know the customer is very appreciative and I would venture that it results in a greater percentage of easy encounters for the sp.

Second: it identifies for the customer the sp’s who the owner feels best exemplifies an attitude similar to that of the lady described above, or, if I am not mistaken that of yourself. YMMV identifies the ladies who perhaps just can’t seem to see their way clear to get their minds around the concept. Now the possible reasons for this are legion but they are all legitimate and I for one respect that choice on her part. But let me remind you. This is a business (as sp’s on many occasions gleefully point out) and market forces are at work. And you will never convince me that the YMMV girl merits the same reward as the GFE one. Also for me YMMV can very quickly become a convenient cop out for the unscrupulous sp. As well I still believe in the concept of merit dictating fees or my choice of an sp. You will never convince me otherwise. And I definitely do not believe in rewarding sp’s acting badly. That is the bottom line for me. Reviews are only part of the answer to avoiding the bad apples or YMMV+$. An ounce of prevention.......... So perhaps the terms do serve a purpose. One thing for sure is that they are here to stay.

 

[Just-ass-weet]

Regular guy - I am aware that the term will stay... but I am far from simplifying things, I happen believe you are.

That said, I think you are not getting my point and maybe I am not getting yours - two sides of the same equation. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Peace

xoxox
Anik

 

[Regular Guy]

Maybe.....

Actually Anik we are probably closer than you think. I have read your approach to sp'ing and I think it is great. And I'll bet you would have no quarrel with improving the standards of the profession in principle. No one wants those providers who give the rest a bad name. And I am sure you would agree with that. If they were all like you we could throw those terms out no argument from me. I for one would trust in your integrity and honesty in an encounter to do your best to see the good side of me.lol

 

[naughtylady]

What ever happened to using GFE to mean a feeling and not a set of sex acts? We had before and still have all the acronyms used to describe the acts now expected in a GFE provider.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[Regular Guy]

Exactly

What ever happened to using GFE to mean a feeling and not a set of sex acts? We had before and still have all the acronyms used to describe the acts now expected in a GFE provider.

Exactly Ronnie. Once the feeling or attitude is defined then we have it. At that point it becomes an issue of whether the provider is comfortable with some of the activities purely on the grounds of health issues. That is all I wanted to say basically.

 

[Just-ass-weet]

Exactly Ronnie. Once the feeling or attitude is defined then we have it. At that point it becomes an issue of whether the provider is comfortable with some of the activities purely on the grounds of health issues. That is all I wanted to say basically.

Hello, that is what I have been saying all along - How can one offer GFE without it being YMMV, provided that GFE is a feeling and not a list of services? How can an agency owner promise this? They cannot... notice that the only agencies that offer "GFE" in their ads are male owners? Notice, that for the most part, they are the ones that have most of the YMMV girls? I find that fascinating, and maybe, I am wrong, but I plan to investigate my hunch

xooxx
Anik

 

[korbel]

Ladies choice.

Hello all,

Personally, I have never said to any lady...well...you did this for him and you should do it for me. There are so many factors in the issue of how a meeting is carried out that it is completely impossible to set rules applicable for all. I have read these posts and there are several points of view that can be rationalized from several possibly legitimate angles. But there is one thing that cannot be denied...the lady is not a slave for anyone...I hope. Even if she has chosen to be a provider she is still a human being with all the inherent rights that status brings. It's her choice what she does. It's that simple. You do your part and I am sure she will do her best within her choices. The reviews will tell you what is most likely to happen and you can make a fairly informed choice about who to see. But the final choices are hers.

Good luck,

Korbel

 

[General Gonad]

But there is one thing that cannot be denied...the lady is not a slave for anyone...I hope. Even if she has chosen to be a provider she is still a human being with all the inherent rights that status brings. It's her choice what she does. It's that simple.

It's not that simple. If a lady is labeled GFE and she repeatedly refuses to engage in GFE services, then she will be fired by the agency owner. There is enormous pressure on these ladies to perform intimate acts with as many clients as possible.

Also, many people think that because they pay for service, they have power over the SP. I do think that some guys take out their frustrations of not being able to land a pretty lady on their own by testing the limits of abuse with SPs.

I have spoken with enough SPs to realize that many guys out there are just jerks. Sometimes I hear stories and I just nod my head in disgust and ask them: "...are you serious? He asked you to do that (lick his asshole)? What's up with these losers?"

GG

 

[korbel]

You are making the same point.

Hello GG,

Lol...well...you seem angry with my post and we are on the same side..I think. Yes, what you said is all very true. Maybe you misunderstood that I was talking about how things ought to be; about my view of the right way of looking at who should be deciding what is to be done. I just did not feel like adding in what everyone already knows. Do we have to cover every angle in each post to avoid misunderstandings. Obviously, since you are averaging almost 30 times the number of posts than I ( me 80 posts per year...you at a rate of 2600 posts per year ), and given the fact that you have several original threads going simultaneously, you clearly have more time and will than I. Okay, Let me clarify once again. There are pressures, threats, demands, and fears from all angles on a lady. We all acknowledge the filthy, dirty world this hobby can be and often is. But, given all the dirty details General Gonad so precisely chronicled and much more...by rights...BY RIGHTS...the choice of what to do SHOULD be the lady's choice alone. It's still that simple.

Regards,

Korbel

 

[General Gonad]

...by rights...BY RIGHTS...the choice of what to do SHOULD be the lady's choice alone. It's still that simple.

Korbel,

I am in full agreement with you - all ladies reserve the right to refuse someone or something if they do not feel comfortable with it. But let's acknowledge that there are a lot of ladies doing this for financial reasons. They need the money to survive and they will suck up a lot of shit and put up with a lot of jerks because they NEED the money.

GG

P.S. Despite what it seems, I am spending less time on Merb but my creative juices are flowing.

 

[korbel]

Yes...of course.

Hello General Gonad,

Already acknowledged in the previous post. Anyone who has been around this hobby knows the ladies feel their own "pressures" within themselves as well as all of those from others. As for the "jerks"...I sure am glad I am on this side on the hobby and not the other. I know there are hobbyists and owners too who should probably be...JAILED...where they would get the same treatment they dish out!

Thanks for the oportunities to express, or vent as the case may be, my views in dsicussion of many issues on these boards. It is a mostly satisfying release for us all I think.

bonne nuit,

Korbel

 

[Regular Guy]

Simplify?

Regular guy - I am aware that the term will stay... but I am far from simplifying things, I happen believe you are.

After following the debate here, Anik, I think I now see more clearly where you were heading and I understand that your point of view has a lot of validity. So let me clarify my thoughts on that point. If I am not mistaken you are taking issue with the fact that the terms are far too often used to impose an impossible standard on sp's. Their use is given far too much weight by hobbiests, indeed to the point of even dictating the outcome of all encounters.

I do realize what sp's have to go through. Your product is yourself given in a very intimate fashion. The price per hour for what you do reflects that. Some customers can be a real challenge to warm up to even for the most people person oriented sp's, either because of their state of mind, basic personality, hygiene etc. For those, you want to reserve the right to keep your distance, to not cheapen your own sense of self worth. I completely agree. For you and others at the high end of this business being intelligent, well educated, and attractive I understand that it can take an effort of imagination to relate to those clients who are not. Sorry, I can’t help you with that one. It goes with the territory. I did try to cover that earlier but perhaps I did not give it enough emphasis. Believe me I have tremendous respect for the challenges inherent in what you do. You meet a lot of self serving jerks and boors and that can tax an sp's efforts to keep a positive outlook. But on the positive side you also provide healing and companionship for those who for an infinite variety of reasons cannot sustain a normal relationship either in the short or long term and I would bet therein lie the rewards. Their gratitude on some days I am sure adds a touch of the meaningful to what could easily become a cold and mercenary endeavour. At times, though, I don't know how sp's manage to avoid letting cynicism creep in. Indeed we all know that many have already. Many of the posts here testify to that. But sp’s are people too and all are not created equal. Some should quite simply not be doing this. Either they are not cut out for it, excessively self-centered or completely unscrupulous. The same goes for agency owners.

There is another dimension as well. Some elements of this activity can get into areas which are very seedy. The girls and their tricks are druggies, not well educated, disease ridden, mostly found in the area of street action. They are driven often by forces outside their control. They do not post here nor would they even for the most part be interested in the discussion here. Then in the middle there are the incalls, a dubious mix of both worlds. Some read this forum. Most do not. For many of them this forum is largely irrelevant as is any discussion of standards. In this case that dog wont hunt. Ya pays your money and ya takes your choice. Period.

Now, all that being said, are the terms really useful for us? If they only serve to help us all differentiate between the sp’s with an attitude similar to yours or the lady from Ontario I quoted earlier and those girls who come up short then yes I do feel they serve a purpose. Are unreal expectations created by their use? Read the guys who have posted here. They’re not stupid. They understand the limitations as do I. Should these terms impose conditions on sp’s which do not allow for flexibility? Absolutely not. But sp’s have to understand that an effort is expected. Do we focus on these terms in an unrealistic way? I don’t but you may have a point where this forum is concerned generally. For me, for various reasons I do not want a relationship right now and I do not want to lead someone on. I would feel terrible if I hurt someone that way. But at a visceral level I still want and need that merging of the souls that comes with intense passion. For others, it’s just getting their rocks off. They enjoy the sexual athletics. I need the affection and personal contact as well. The terms GFE and YMMV are very useful to me personally. I hope this clarifies where I am coming from.

 

[The Wizard of Oz]

When I talk about getting rid of the term GFE I mean with reference to agencies and girls themselves. In reviews, that is where the term at least has some use. If you want to talk about escorting - originally (in fact up until maybe 4 years ago) GFE wasn`t really expected in the same way as it is now. It was considered a privelege that the girl did more than FS or BJ.

But now show me an exact definition of GFE? None exists. Yea, we have a list of jumbled letters, but GFE is a heck of alot more than a , DFK and (or it can be less for some), one guys GFE is anothers PSE or HE or doesn`t live up to any of those alpha-isms.

SK was not treated the same as others is exactly my point... she fucked him didn`t she (sorry I never read the review) as people like to point out to my romantic view on things - THAT`s is what he paid for... anything else HAS to be YMMV - it just has to be. There is not one lady who has not enountered a guy that should didn`t do ``GFE`` things with and it isn`t always because of looks, smell, or whatever else. Sometimes it just doesn`t feel natural to.

The last thing ladies want to do is bring along a GFE checklist

- okay - check
Dfk - okay -check (oh, was it deep enough - maybe that was lfk - oh, I hope he doesn`t protest)
Oh shit - I didn`t lick his balls, I better go back down
Okay, let me on top for a minute, now him (good multi-pos covered - check)
No, you have to come again or I cannot check msog - you MUST!!

Let me re-iterate here - GFE services are great, and should be part of the general cost of a session, but 100% expecting them is unrealistic. Actually, most likely, the less you expect, the more bang you will get for your buck.

xoxox
Anik

I have to admit that this one made me laugth my ass off!!!!!
But I think that was a smart way to explain your point of view.