Sovereignists going after children...

[Bob Binette]

So to have this book, into classes the following step need to be done:

1-) Teacher buy the book.
2-) Teacher read it and judge if its pertinent or not to bring it into classes.
3-) Teacher need to talk about it in class.... if its a mathematic teacher I'm curious how he would bring it.... so remain: french, history and maybe geographia class...

If you think a school gonna buy 100s copy for student there, its like believing Irak have massive destructions weapons. Actually anti-separatist play with words to make people think that... But believing anything said on radio and tv is to be ignorant... You should listen interview done buy the guy who publish it.
Wilko

To make it in the class any book needs to be approved by the Department of Education. They have very specific criterias Government officials already made the point that it doesn't meet most criterias.

 

[zigezon]

...

Jesus did I read a load of bullshit here...


The book is one sided. I can point you to A LOT OF BOOKS that are one-sided pro-Canada, I never hear nobody cry the wolf! Why is that? Could it be because the Victors are scared how their history would be reviewed by the defeated ? damn right! It's the fuckin same! So what's different?!


Can you point me to any History book who is not biased? Come on, I'm waiting... And I'll be waiting for a fuckin long time... Ohh I get it, now that what is being said goes AGAINST YOUR OWN BELIEF, now that is Indoctrination? Please, let me laugh, if anything, it's free speech !!




Indoctrination, does not come from the tool, but from the process. It's how we use and force our ways on others that classify us as indoctrinating. I don't think presenting this book, in a History class, with the freedom of speech and along the History of Canada is being indoctrinating...




And to conclude, I think there is far worse "indoctrination" going on in Canada and we never hear about it... How about Don Cherry. He's always teaching the people of Canada that french Canadian are bad hockey players, and there's never anyone on his show to contradict him. Open the Dictionnary, and tell me if he is not indoctrinating the hockey fans in Canada that the french canadian players are bad and should never play in the NHL... That's his doctrine. OHHHH, WHAT, See how it is EASY to bullshit, I just did, like you just did...



(please, dont get mad now, I know you love him )



To indoctrinate people, in the sense you people talk of, it would mean that those who are being indoctrinated have no say and no right of free thinking / free speech, which is contrary to what this guide is proposing...

 

[wilko26]

To make it in the class any book needs to be approved by the Department of Education. They have very specific criterias Government officials already made the point that it doesn't meet most criterias.

Bro this is what nobody understand here! Maybe I express my point a wrong way... This is NOT a book to give to student... this book is a guide to instruct teacher how to inform/teach them about it... Now everybody is scared about it.... Theres no questions and answer at the end for an exam.... or such thing.... but some people here shoud maybe take a look at it before giving their opinions... Did anyone here read it? I havent take a look at it... maybe its full of bs that I'm not agree either. Has I told in my first post separatism at school is not something new I personnally got a separatist teacher in my history classes in secondary4... But when I say history (of Canada) classes in french and english are different I'm not kidding... I guess both of them omit couple of thing.

Anyway je pense pas que je vais continuer de poster dans un thread avec du monde qui peuvent pas comprendre que quelqu'un au Canada a le droit de publier un livre sur n'importe quel sujet. Ce qui est le fun c'est de voir à quel point ça dérange... et stress! Le parti Quebecois c'est même dissocier de cet ouvrage alors je vois pas en quoi c'est dangereux.

Inquiètez-vous pas dans une semaine on en parlera même plus Ca me fait penser au monde en ligne au centre bell pour rentrer pour la game toronto-mtl c'était juste drole...

Wilko

 

[spin]

What a silly argument.

Sorry JustBob but what I found silly was comparing anything written in this thread as a first step toward "Separatists will eat your children?"

Il n'y a rien qui oblige les enseignants a les acheter et de toute façon un enseignant de mathematique commencera pas a parler de souveraineté demain...

I don't think anyone is worried about a math teacher using it wilko26.

slashmtl, I agree with your rant sir - well said.

 

[shijak]

Last thing, I gonna repeat a quote that one of my friend from Ottawa told me: 'When I cross the bridge I feel I'm in another country'.

Ca ne me tente vraiment pas d'embarquer dans cette discussion...SAUF pour cet éternel commentaire que je ne puisse ignorer...

Wilco, ne penses-tu pas que la même chose pourrait être dite par un New-Yorkais parachuté en Alabama? D'un Parisien dans la campagne de Toulouse? D'un pêcheur de l'Ile-du-Prince-Edouard dans la ville de Toronto?
Quand j'entends une chose pareille emanant de la bouche de quelqu'un, je me retiens de peine a leur crier "Voyage donc un peu, bordel de merde!" par la tête!

 

[wilko26]

Ca ne me tente vraiment pas d'embarquer dans cette discussion...SAUF pour cet éternel commentaire que je ne puisse ignorer...

Wilco, ne penses-tu pas que la même chose pourrait être dite par un New-Yorkais parachuté en Alabama? D'un Parisien dans la campagne de Toulouse? D'un pêcheur de l'Ile-du-Prince-Edouard dans la ville de Toronto?
Quand j'entends une chose pareille emanant de la bouche de quelqu'un, je me retiens de peine a leur crier "Voyage donc un peu, bordel de merde!" par la tête!

Je pense que j'ai voyager pas mal plus que toi.... je pense pas que tu connais quelqu'un qui a du faire rajouter des pages a son passport... ce que je voulais signifier c'est que Ottawa et Hull c'est coller pis quand il traverse au Quebec il trouve ça TRES différent... Et je pense pas que quand il va a HULL (2 min en auto de chez eux) il considère ca comme un voyage!

Wilko

 

[shijak]

Je pense que j'ai voyager pas mal plus que toi.... je pense pas que tu connais quelqu'un qui a du faire rajouter des pages a son passport... ce que je voulais signifier c'est que Ottawa et Hull c'est coller pis quand il traverse au Quebec il trouve ça TRES différent... Et je pense pas que quand il va a HULL (2 min en auto de chez eux) il considère ca comme un voyage!

Wilko

Je ne parle pas du tout de la quantite de lieux visites, mais plutot de l'attitude envers les differences. J'ai de la famille qui reside pas plus de 30km de Montreal, et pour eux c'est comme debarquer d'un astronef sur une planete totalement differente les quelques fois qu'ils osent s'aventurer sur l'ile. Voila pourquoi je trouve cet argument totalement ridicule...

 

[spin]

ce que je voulais signifier c'est que Ottawa et Hull c'est coller pis quand il traverse au Quebec il trouve ça TRES différent... Et je pense pas que quand il va a HULL (2 min en auto de chez eux) il considère ca comme un voyage!

C'mon now

Ottawa is where gov't people work and for vacationing tourists, Hull is where real people live. Unfair to compare the cities (even though they are close to one another) as a just representation of Ontario & Quebec.

Try visiting Ottawa, Quebec City, and St.John's Newfoundland - then tell me which of 3 feels like your in a different country, life on "the Rock" is distinct.

 

[docprostate]

Canada is ...

... including my Quebec. Canada is the best country in the world. Where else could we have such a discussion! I have live in USA, France, India and Canada. The places I like the most is my Canada, my Quebec, and my city Montreal.

 

[wilko26]

C'mon now

Ottawa is where gov't people work and for vacationing tourists, Hull is where real people live. Unfair to compare the cities (even though they are close to one another) as a just representation of Ontario & Quebec.

I'm not talking about size of the city but considering this site: http://www.citypopulation.de/Canada.html theres about 1 million of population in Ottawa..... So I guess you still consider Ottawa has a touristic city... 1 million of population is nothing compare to Hull/Gatineau (sarcastic) I'm a bit surprised but there's people who live in Ottawa also Also for your personnal culture Ottawa had merged with couple of city such Vanier... The point of my friend is about sign on street, people in restaurant ask your choice in french, etc....

Je ne parle pas du tout de la quantite de lieux visites, mais plutot de l'attitude envers les differences. J'ai de la famille qui reside pas plus de 30km de Montreal, et pour eux c'est comme debarquer d'un astronef sur une planete totalement differente les quelques fois qu'ils osent s'aventurer sur l'ile. Voila pourquoi je trouve cet argument totalement ridicule...

Je suis d'accord qu'a 30km de Mtl ya des méchantes différences. Tout ce que je veux dire c'est que la langue amène des différences... je pense pas que ta famille remarquent des différences au niveau de la langue (c'est le sujet du thread) à moins bien sur qu'ils tombent sur un dépanneur tenu famille de chinois qui vient de débarquer (J'ai rien contre les chinois un de mes 2 partners est chinois). Je voulais juste signifier par le commentaire de mon ami le différence a quelques minutes d'auto. Tsé si vous voulez me planter parce que je suis séparatiste faites le sur les points importants pas les détails svp! Peut-etre c'est pas ton but non plus mais bon c'est juste qu'un moment donné on va jaser longtemps.

We should rename this thread 'Wilko friend in Ottawa'

Wilko

 

[wilko26]

... including my Quebec. Canada is the best country in the world. Where else could we have such a discussion! I have live in USA, France, India and Canada. The places I like the most is my Canada, my Quebec, and my city Montreal.

Well said aslong each other respect themself and their difference.. But you should try Asia.... One day I would like to move there... With 3000$ US a month you can live like a king in Philippines its mean big appartement, maid, cook, massage every day, poum poump with new girl every night.... but fu***** far from your people!

Wilko

 

[spin]

I'm not talking about size of the city but considering this site: http://www.citypopulation.de/Canada.html theres about 1 million of population in Ottawa..... So I guess you still consider Ottawa has a touristic city... 1 million of population is nothing compare to Hull/Gatineau (sarcastic) I'm a bit surprised but there's people who live in Ottawa also Also for your personnal culture Ottawa had merged with couple of city such Vanier... The point of my friend is about sign on street, people in restaurant ask your choice in french, etc....

wilko26,

I wasn't talking about size??? Yes wilko26 I know people live in Ottawa I had the misfortune of living there for a year and a half (no offense fine citizens of Ottawa, it just wasn't for me) my culture is just fine thank you I know all bout Vanier.

The atmosphere of Ottawa being that it is the Capital is what makes it so different from Hull, NOT the fact that one is in Ontario and the other in Quebec was my point.

So what your saying is your friend saw french street signs (no there are none of those in Ottawa ) and had a poutine served to him by a french waitress and thought he crossed the bridge and into a whole new mystical world???

This friend of yours needs to get out a little more...

 

[b_cup_lover]

Wow! This is a never ending thing!

After this reply I’m off with Big Daddy Cool for that famed Beer!



Posted by Slashmtl:
Also if you think we live in a free country you are sadly mistaken. If we did an immigrant could come to quebec and send his kid to an English school and I could use a totally english sign for my business that does exclusive commerce with anglophones. But alas this is illegal even though we have two official languages.

b_cup>>>Two official languages……Oh you mean like bilingual in Quebec and English in rest of Canada?

Posted by Slashmtl:
Both sides spin but the problem is the seperatists flat out lie and cheat to steal votes

b_cup>>>And rushing to give Canadian nationality to immigrants before a referendum is not cheating?

Posted by Slashmtl:
Without Canada quebec is english in 20 years. It is canada's protection policies forcing imports to be bilingual, and many others.

bcup>>>Please!!!!!!!

Posted by Slashmtl:
You obviously are unclear on the concept of indoctrinization (brain-washing). Kids spout what they are taught. If they are taught their whole life to hate blacks they not going to rethink their position at 16. No they will hate blacks their whole life

b_cup>>>Like when they are though to hate sovereignists



Posted by Spin:
Separatists should be demonized - I always find it so odd that separatists can spew any hog wash propoganda they like BUT the minute a few federalist's try to counter they are quickly ridiculed, often by their own!

b_cup>>>Funny you say that Spin ‘cause this is exactly the what’s happening right now but the other way around.
Sovereignists are condemning the book and being ridiculed

Spin:
Federalist's unite! It's time to end the outdated (and never really viable) idea of seperation once and for, and we shall start our campaign right here on MERB!

b_cup>>>Federalist's unite! we shall start our campaign right here on MERB once and for seperation.





Spin:
All in favor of a complete and truly billingual Canada please take one step forward.

b_cup>>>I already did before becoming in favor of sovereignty



Slaslmtl:
So explain to me what was extreme with what I wrote. Tell me where my reasoning is wrong. This I can't wait to see.


Well, wait no more!!!!!!!

Quote slashmtl:::::::

Also if you think we live in a free country you are sadly mistaken. If we did an immigrant could come to quebec and send his kid to an English school and I could use a totally english sign for my business that does exclusive commerce with anglophones. But alas this is illegal even though we have two official languages. So we are far from a free society.

Both sides spin but the problem is the seperatists flat out lie and cheat to steal votes

The problem with talking about seperatism is that they don't offer both sides impatially. The glorify the seperatism and vilify the federalists with a bunch of garbage about protecting their language bla, bla, bla.

Just as a note I am against seperatists cause they lie and cheat. If they told it like it is, saying how hard it will be, that they will lose substantial amount of people and business, and they will not have all quebec as they know now as their new country and IF knowing all this they vote to seperate I will accept it.

 

[wilko26]

wilko26,

This friend of yours needs to get out a little more...

LOL funny that you tell me that cause he's leaving for singapore in a month he found a job there....

Anyway can we get back to the topic of this thread and respect each other opinion... cause we have to admit thats a bit like dog and cat (maybe water and fire is a better example). I'm not trying to convince anybody here... just saying thats maybe some wrong informations have circulated... I reconize that in your position I would be probably have same reaction but maybe your opinion about souvereignists is a bit wrong... they cant be compare to extremist... There's some I agree but the oposite is true for some federalist... On Tv, in newspaper, radio etc... they always reports extremist.

Has I said even me I dont even know if I would vote Oui or dont vote... I like Canada for couple of things (mostly related to business) but I think its ok to protect french.... If its can be done within Canada? YES If the actual situation give enough protection? Not sure.... Harper show a kind of overture to Quebec unseen before... Maybe you can convince me of the opposite.... In french we say: Je suis pas barré. But we have to admit that if we have this discussion it's because something wrong somewhere... When 49.1% of people Vote Oui its cause something goes wrong... At least we are enough civilized to dont shot both of us, bombs, etc... and in a certain way we should be proud of it cause in almost rest of the world its append.

Wilko

 

[spin]

I agree wilko26 that this is a lot like fire and water, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything either - I like to debate Canadian politics it's a Canadian thin to do.

By the way even though I am very much a federalist I do live here in the Province of Quebec and I don't want to live anywhere else. I am English but I love the french culture and have NO PROBLEM at all with them trying to protect it. I speak french I read french and I can kiss in french I just want to keep doing all of this cool french stuff in Canada.

Oh ya almost forgot:

When 49.1% of people Vote Oui its cause something goes wrong...

So when 51% of the people vote NO (twice by the way) this means nothing...

OK now I'm done.

 

[wilko26]

So when 51% of the people vote NO (twice by the way) this means nothing...

C'mon Bro its like a glass of water (or bottle of beer at SC) half full and half empty...

It's mean theres 51% that want stay into Canada... and separatist respected it...twice. But if one day the opposite append, 51% of 'oui' I'm not sure this vote would get the same level of respect. Personnally I'm not sure about this 50% +1 to get independance... democraticly it's should be ok... but in pratice I'm not sure.... at this point I would even be scared of a civil war at 50%+1. Honestly I would feel bad to change life of 50% -1... Some separatist wont agree with me but I think its should be like 55% at least...

Wilko

 

[JustBob]

So explain to me what was extreme with what I wrote. Tell me where my reasoning is wrong. This I can't wait to see.

Your post reeks of extremism which oddly enough is the very thing that you are condemning the evil separatists of doing... I know I'm probably banging my head against a wall of ignorance but what the hell... Here's one example:

If you look at the history of the french canadians the english were not to blame for them not being part of the buisiness world it was the church who said business was evil so just stay on your farm and make babies.

Are you serious? That's one of the stupidest things I ever heard. You rant that you don't want your kids to be indoctrinated by the revisionist history of the evil separatists and you just turn around and offer revisionist history of your own...

Are you familiar with good old Lord Durham who said that French Canadians and no history, no culture and were "inferior":

"The language, the laws and the character of the North American continent are English, and every other race than the English race is in a state of inferiority.
It is in order to release them from this inferiority that I wish to give the Canadians our English character."

And this prevailing notion that French Canadians were inferior and second class citizens wasn't just a historical glitch of the early 19th century. In fact you don't have to look that far back to find the same attitudes. Heck just 50 years ago it was almost impossible for a french canadian to climb the ladder and access the top echelon jobs in companies. Not to mention people being told to "speak white" when they dared speak french in stores like Simpsons or Eatons... And this has nothing to do with priests, farms, cows or making babies.

And for the record, I'm no separatist and I think that extremists like Pierre Falardeau are funny but completely out of touch with reality. But damn dude stop spewing that nonsense.

 

[Mike Mercury]

Many do not know that ''Ô Canada'' was written in French then translated in English.

Only ignorant people do not know that Calixa Lavallé wrote O Canada.

 

[spin]

It's mean theres 51% that want stay into Canada... and separatist respect it... But if one day the opposite append, 51% of 'oui' I'm not sure this vote would get the same level of respect. Personnally I'm not sure about this 50% +1 to get independance... democraticly it's should be ok... but in pratice I'm not sure.... at this point I would even be scared of a civil war at 50%+1. Honestly I would feel bad to change life of 50% -1... Some separatist wont agree with me but I think its should be like 55% at least...

Well my friend wilko they didn't really respect it, if they had of we wouldn't have had to do it a 2nd time. So I guess you're right if the seperatist ever do win I think it's only fair that we don't respect it the first time either

Here's an interesting question: What happens hypotheticly of coarse, when the Province of Montreal in the newly founded Country of Quebec decides that it wants to seperate and re-join Canada?

 

[wilko26]

Well my friend wilko they didn't really respect it, if they had of we wouldn't have had to do it a 2nd time. So I guess you're right if the seperatist ever do win I think it's only fair that we don't respect it the first time either

Here's an interesting question: What happens hypotheticly of coarse, when the Province of Montreal in the newly founded Country of Quebec decides that it wants to seperate and re-join Canada?

When your convicted that's require 50%+1 to get separation and got good result in survey (has good I refer more than 50%) I guess you can try...

About your questions, I guess thoses bad french extremist simply need to do like Hitler did with jewish people.... kidding! Well I would recommand to Montreal province to give it at least a serious try within Quebec (a good 5 year) and if its so terrible dont worry rest of Quebec will vote to goes back in Canada and you would NEVER heard about it again.... But if situation (economic) is getting better I dont see why Montreal would like to separate.

Wilko