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spin

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Well I would recommand to Montreal province to give it at least a serious try within Quebec (a good 5 year) and if its so terrible dont worry rest of Quebec will vote to goes back in Canada and you would NEVER heard about it again.... But if situation (economic) is getting better I dont see why Montreal would like to separate.

Ahhh wilko26, this is the last time for me because we do this forever and not get anywhere.

First of all what makes you think Canada will let you back in? It's one thing for the people of Quebec to think they can vote and decide all on their own to leave Canada BUT don't for 1 minute think that Canada will just let us vote again and go back - Maybe Canada will have their own election and vote not to let Quebec back in.

Funny I don't understand why Quebec wants to leave Canada??? But you are asking me why would Montreal want to seperate from Quebec - well maybe just maybe because some of us are CANADIAN and want to stay CANADIAN.
 

Techman

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If they ever had a referendum on a CLEAR question there's no chance they would ever approach 40% much less 50% +1. Many of the people who voted yes still thought Quebec would continue to receive transfer payments from Canada. I suggest that anyone who votes yes should show that they understand what they are voting for by turning in their passport at the voting booth.
What I fail to understand is how they think that they can form a country with a 50% +1 vote when 50 -1% of the people are going to be against them. Especially when those against are the ones who will hold most of the financial power in the new country. We bitch about the taxes we pay now...just wait until you're paying 75% of your income to the gov't just so it can barely scrape by. Separatism is an idea whose time has come and gone and the sooner we put it behind us the better off we will all be.
 

spin

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Very well said Techman.
 

wilko26

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spin said:
Funny I don't understand why Quebec wants to leave Canada??? But you are asking me why would Montreal want to seperate from Quebec - well maybe just maybe because WE ARE CANADIAN.

I agree thats its gonna goes no where but maybe Quebec want separate cause Quebec was a FRENCH (from France) COLONY! :D But you probably don't know that french people had to 'speak white' before.... It's a historical debate each side have their arguments and we need to respect it... maybe its worth to watch the movie: '15 février 1839' to understand couple points of separatists... I don't mean all of their points.

I agree that the BEST solution is find a way to accomodate all of us in Canada... but I'm not agree when I see people comparing all separatists to extremists... and all this is ruled by politician Who's right, who's wrong man its all BS.... The point is to keep french language alive in Quebec and I know all of you agree with that.

Wilko
 

wilko26

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Techman said:
If they ever had a referendum on a CLEAR question there's no chance they would ever approach 40% much less 50% +1. Many of the people who voted yes still thought Quebec would continue to receive transfer payments from Canada. I suggest that anyone who votes yes should show that they understand what they are voting for by turning in their passport at the voting booth.
What I fail to understand is how they think that they can form a country with a 50% +1 vote when 50 -1% of the people are going to be against them. Especially when those against are the ones who will hold most of the financial power in the new country. We bitch about the taxes we pay now...just wait until you're paying 75% of your income to the gov't just so it can barely scrape by. Separatism is an idea whose time has come and gone and the sooner we put it behind us the better off we will all be.

I understand your point 100% Questions is another problem... but man what would be a CLEAR question? Can you make one enough clear that you would accept? Personnally I think that 'unclear' questions can be advantage to federalists because maybe some french people would not risk something thats not clear right?

I dare anyone here to create a clear questions and post it here... Personnally I think that a question like:

Do you want that Quebec become a soveign country from Canada?

Is enough clear... if we put too much terms theres a bunch of retards that would not understand it either... I guess everybody agree we want all put it behind us but when 40% of a province want separation its cause theres a problem and this problem nee to be resolved... and I DONT mean that separation is the ONLY solutions theres others one has we explained earlier.

Wilko
 
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Techman

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wilko26, I think that what you proposed is a pretty clear question but none of us will ever see it in a referendum. With a clear question like that there has to be a lot of explanation, before the referendum, of exactly what a sovereign country is. It has to be spelled out that Quebec will have no guaranteed financial or political ties with Canada, that Quebec will have to apply to be part of free trade and that Quebecers will not be able to use the Canadian passport. There are a lot of consequences to separation that the separatist leaders would prefer to be kept quiet. Like Parizeau said, once the lobsters are in the pot it's too late. Quebec as part of Canada has plenty of negotiating power, a sovereign Quebec has none. Quebec cannot afford it's social programs now even with all the transfer payments from Canada. Without that money, plus the probability of losing a good chunk of population after separation, they would have to raise taxes to an extremely high level.

If there is ever another referendum you can be sure that the question will not be that clear. And if it is not a clear question how can they expect the rest of Canada to accept the results. There's only one thing I want to be made clear...if they hold another one it should be guaranteed that it will be the last one. Three strikes, you're out. It's time to remove the knife from Canada's throat once and for all. And it's time Canada stood up for itself and said enough is enough and after the next one passes laws declaring Canada to be indivisible.
 

Techman

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b_cup_lover said:
Ah F..... Come on! :rolleyes:

You doubt it? How many of the top Quebec companies are owned and controlled by Quebec interests alone. How many international companies are Quebec owned? How many companies still have their head offices in Quebec? How many will still be here after separation?

Montreal is the financial center of Quebec. Montreal is overwhelmingly federalist. I'd love to see how it could be controlled from Quebec city.:)
 

wilko26

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You cant put consequence in a clear questions... if you want put consequence its wont finish....theres likes 1000000 consequence to separate (some good some not foe each side). So I guess its would have to be a quick and simple questions has I stated...

Personnally I dont think we would loose a big power of dealing... we are not even able to get USA respect an international judgement about the wood case...

But for sure it's might bring some economical insecurity. But again when your convicted of something and want it, if you dont take any risk you wont have it... this apply in anything in life of everybody. But at next referendum I would keep all my money in USD lol! :) But I understand somebody who would have like 100k in stock in some company that might be affected to vote no :)

My biggest worry would have to rename Les Canadiens for Les Quebecois :D

Hope that if I'm going in what of this member meeting nobody gonna find me dead in restroom. :D kidding....

Cheer all... and I'm happy to be in same country has you :rolleyes:

Wilko

Btw in couple of mins theres a debat on TQS about it :)
 
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slashmtl

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JustBob said:
Your post reeks of extremism which oddly enough is the very thing that you are condemning the evil separatists of doing... I know I'm probably banging my head against a wall of ignorance but what the hell... Here's one example:



Are you serious? That's one of the stupidest things I ever heard. You rant that you don't want your kids to be indoctrinated by the revisionist history of the evil separatists and you just turn around and offer revisionist history of your own...

Are you familiar with good old Lord Durham who said that French Canadians and no history, no culture and were "inferior":



And this prevailing notion that French Canadians were inferior and second class citizens wasn't just a historical glitch of the early 19th century. In fact you don't have to look that far back to find the same attitudes. Heck just 50 years ago it was almost impossible for a french canadian to climb the ladder and access the top echelon jobs in companies. Not to mention people being told to "speak white" when they dared speak french in stores like Simpsons or Eatons... And this has nothing to do with priests, farms, cows or making babies.

And for the record, I'm no separatist and I think that extremists like Pierre Falardeau are funny but completely out of touch with reality. But damn dude stop spewing that nonsense.

All this post proves is that you are clueless. There is nothing extermist in my post. I don't call for any action or revolt nor do I condemn anyone. All I said was I don't like seperatists and gave some things I don't like and some personal opinions. As for my comment on the church it was not to say that the english did nothing I just said the church had a huge impact that is always ignored. And to prove it why do you think this is the list religious province in canada when it used to be the most. The backlash wasn't just against the english. And are you seriously bringing up Lord Durham? That is laughable. You are like a woman when she remembers when you came home drunk 17 years ago when you hadn't done it since.

And anyway the fact that the french could not get into business had more factors than just their being french. Even today business is done between friends and if the business at the time was controlled by the english of course it would remain that way since people always do business amongst themselves. Ever heard of china town, try being white and open a store there. Does it make them wrong? No it is human nature to trust your own.


And B_Cup you are deranged if you think a population or 4-5 million people surrounded by 400 million english speaking people, and having 0 buying power and getting screwed in every trade deal cause you so small, can afford to keep being french. Good Luck I wish you well.

And Wilko you are too much. I said in my post that I speak french perfectly. So say sorry twice if I couldn't understand shows how long you can keep a thought in your head. But I won't go there I will keep it clean. 35% serperatist number is pure crap, all numbers can be played with so they are meaningless. That poll could have asked anything. I have seen polls say that there are only 10% real seperatists. And please stop explaining that this book is priovate and not in schools. I KNOW. I took it as an acedemic WHAT IF argument as I am sure it was meant to be. And it is funny how people point to Gomery as a federalist weakness and corruption when it was all the liberals and their business friends here in Quebec. Like I mentioned before business is always between friends and all governements have waste and corruption so pointing to one and saying how wrong it is is pure bullshit cause anyone would do the same if in that position. It is the old throwing stones when you live in a glass house argument.

And it is funny how Canada is so against QUebec when before our current prime minister the last english one (and i mean for more than 2-3 months) was in the 60s. Hmmmmmmmm, man we hate quebec, so lets give one of them the most important position in our country.

And how did you get on burning people and books????????

Last post on this so do you worst and compare me with hitler or some other extremist I don't care.
 

wilko26

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Slashmtl at least this thread would had help you to increase you amount of post here by 10-15%....not bad for a member who registred in Aug 2004 ;)

Doest worth to argument with somebody who don't believe theres 35% of separatist (has separatist I refer to somebody that would vote Oui and not to militant you gonna see placing sticker on their bumber car and going into separatist meeting). Speaking with somebody that believe theres 10-15% of the population who FORCE another 20-35% to go vote Oui. Cause considering, like you said, theres 10% of real separatist there's no others choice to force couple of them to vote oui considering that last result was 51-49....

About the commission Gomery yes it's append in Quebec... But Liberals are federalist... and I guess their friends was federalist also. So yeah thats funny topoint about it... I don't think such scandal could occur in British colombia or into Nunavut ;) If there's corruption into separatists government? Maybe but at least they havent been enough dumb to get caught :D

You know this debate here is a bit useless.... in fact what we can do? Nothing... except voting! But if Parti Quebec goes back and there's another referendum I gonna respect the vote and I guess if it's gonna be the last one.

Wilko
 
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spin

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I guess if it's a no its gonna be the last one.


From your lips to Gods ears my friend wilko.
 

spin

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WTF?

Brian Mulroney
Paul Martin, Yes Paul Martin, he is an english canadian born in Ontario

Brian Mulroney - born in Baie Comeau (1939)

Paul Martin - born in Windsor Ont (1938) but he is a Franco-Ontarian (half Irish half French) and served as MP for Lasalle Que. - went to French school in Ottawa.
 
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Cosmo

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Brian Mulroney is from Sept-iles if I'm not mistaken.
Paul Martin has is seat in Verdun/Lassalle but I think is from Hamilton.
Correct me if I'm wrong.:confused:
 

Techman

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All I can say about either of them is that I'm glad they aren't running the country anymore. And I live in Martin's riding, Lasalle-Emard. He wanted to be PM so much he destroyed the Liberal party in the process. Now we'll probably get Belinda Stronach as Liberal leader. Oh well, at least she has a nice bod.:D Even when it comes to politics I'm still a typical Quebecer...the first thing I notice is that she has a great ass.:p
 

spin

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Yes but slashmtl was asking for an english PM, can't an anglohone be born in Quebec?

Sure I have an entire familly of anglophones born in Quebec to prove it - I don't want to speak for slashmtl but I think he meant a PM not from Quebec.
 
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