Spa Jasmine avis de non conformité

[thaijasmine]

apparramment tu ne les a pas lu.

0 Arrestation de clients en 2016 dans tout le quebec, si ca respectais les 3 regles or de la police.

c36 vient des conservateur. Cest comme si on legalisais la consommations du pot mais quon rendais ilegal de la vendre. Tous les specialistes de lindustrie sentendent pour dire que cest stupide de criminalise les clients.

Les policier sont pas tous des cavent il comprenne le bon sens.

Alors tu peux continuer a lire tout ce que tu veux. Mais essaie surtout de lire entre les lignes, cest un sujet, une patate chaude que tout le monde essaie de garrocher a son voisin.
Enayway.. Par ailleurs je pense ouvrir un seminaire pour certain clients qui ont encore peur detre arrete par la police. apprenez vos droits vous verrez que si vous respecter les regles que les policiers on emissent vous naurez jamais de probleme.

 

[Double G]

Non, arrête là. T'as dit que c'est légal alors que ce l'est pas, peu importe le nombre d'arrestations. Il n'y a pas d'entreligne à lire et tu ne m'apprends rien, alors-là vraiment rien, sur le travail des policiers. Faut dire les choses comme il faut: la loi est claire.

 

[CLOUD 500]

ThaiJasmine,

This is called selective enforcement. The law is there but it is up to municipal jurisdiction to enforce as they want to. And yes for the first time in Canadian history prostitution is illegal thanks to the Conservatives... But common bawdy houses have always been illegal and still are.

 

[spacecadet]

Very strange debate where this mp owner distorts that facts. It's really scary how you manipulate words in order to get your agenda across. Zero arrests doesn't mean it's legal and doesn't mean they can't or won't arrest clients like us. As for you saying that you crossed the T's and dotted the I's when you moved to your new location. That has to be false also because as a fact, we know that NOWHERE in ANY Canadian city, municipality is it LEGAL to open a local that offers sexual favors in exchange of money. NOWHERE!

I bet your little rant will be detrimental to your business, your staff and most certainly potential clients. " Les policiers sont pas tous des caves" What kind of legal argument is that? Police officers act on orders not on whim. And i bet you just gave yourself and your clients a huge bullseye!!! Great job sir!

Oh and btw, this is my opinion so take it as you may but opening in a 99% residential area is really a horrible business move. If i'd live on the street you picked to relocate, i'd complain too.
Hope my comments weren't offensive to the op or other members but his long diatribe was riddled in false legal statements and a member who is somewhat naive might see it as fact when in all actuality, it isnt.
Shame on you

 

[pat98]

c36 vient des conservateur. Cest comme si on legalisais la consommations du pot mais quon rendais ilegal de la vendre. Tous les specialistes de lindustrie sentendent pour dire que cest stupide de criminalise les clients.

L'arrêt Bedford qui a déclenché la montée en cour constitutionnelle des articles (stupides et archaïques) de la prostitution est tombé au plus mauvais moment avec des CONServateurs au pouvoir!

Le Cr*t*n alors de ministre de la justice en place n'a fait que "rassurer" sa base de moutons CONServateurs en ce qui à trait à la prostitution confondant allègrement et tout à fait délibéremment avec la minorité sordide qui existe bel et bien dans ce milieu criminalisé qu'est la prostitution!

Et oui c'est totalement stupide de criminaliser le client... ça ne fonctionne pas dans les pays ou c'est en place! En plus de marginaliser les prostituées et de les mettre au final bien possiblement en danger.

Cela dit pour revenir au sujet, je suis en accord avec le boss de Jasmine sur le fait qu'il faut parler et faire bousculer les choses... Continuer à cacher ça parce que la société d'origine largement judéo-crétine ne le permet pas ne mène pas bien loin...
Mais bon se planter dans un quartier ultra résidentiel et faire du remous médiatique à outrance, pas sûr que c'est tout à fait la bonne mèthode!

Pour la police, oui c'est encore plus facile maintenant d'aller en incall et ou place de massage !
Il n'y a d'ailleurs qu'à constater toutes les agences autrefois exclusivement outcall maintenant propose toutes incall et selon mes sources cela peut même être la majorité de leur "chiffre d'affaire" !

 

[thaijasmine]

PAT98- qui que tu sois - merci de meclairer de ta lumiere- amen

 

[spacecadet]

I guess he won'r address english comments. Too bad, i would have loved a reply from him.

 

[gugu]

because as a fact, we know that NOWHERE in ANY Canadian city, municipality is it LEGAL to open a local that offers sexual favors in exchange of money. NOWHERE

Not exactly the case. First, a sex worker opening a local to offer sexual services does nothing illegal in regards with the criminal code. Second, in some cities like Edmonton, body-rob parlours are regulated: they require special permits, so a businesses like Jasmine, if getting the permit, operate legally from a municipal point of view even if the clients, without any doubt, are committing a criminal offense when buying the body-rob services.

 

[pat98]

PAT98- qui que tu sois - merci de meclairer de ta lumiere- amen

me fait plaisir ! lol

J'ai eu justement un salon de massage juste en face de chez moi :lol:
Et moi ça me gènait pas vraiment plus que ça lol

Ils ont été fermé (stupidement trafic de substaces illicites... tsé) mais comme je suis en plein quartier résidentiel, les filles qui se tenaient dehors pour fumer, mettons ce nétait pas la meilleure idée en soi. Plus en arrière dans la ruelle aurait probablement été plus smart.
Moi ça me permettait de voir le roster lol

Mais moi je ne suis pas marié et je ne me cache pas plus que cela car je peux me le permettre. Mais c'est clair avec le consensus sociétal actuel, il faut faire attention tout de même...

Cela dit, il serait peut-être enfin temps de considérer la constitution de "redlight district" ....
Cela faciliterait quelque peu mais bon avant qu'un maire comme Coderre fasse ça, il y aura de l'eau qui aura coulé sous le pont !

PS Merci aussi à Gugu, comme d'habitude, d'éclairer également avec exactitude nos lumiéres!

 

[spacecadet]

Not exactly the case. First, a sex worker opening a local to offer sexual services does nothing illegal in regards with the criminal code. Second, in some cities like Edmonton, body-rob parlours are regulated: they require special permits, so a businesses like Jasmine, if getting the permit, operate legally from a municipal point of view even if the clients, without any doubt, are committing a criminal offense when buying the body-rob services.

I stand corrected gugu. Thanks for enlightening me. But mister thaijasmine is clearly speaking of prostitution and has been more than up front in saying his parlour isnt just simply "rub and tug" so that would still be considered a brothel, which i think, is illegal in Canada.

 

[CLOUD 500]

First, a sex worker opening a local to offer sexual services does nothing illegal in regards with the criminal code. Second, in some cities like Edmonton, body-rob parlours are regulated: they require special permits, so a businesses like Jasmine, if getting the permit, operate legally from a municipal point of view even if the clients, without any doubt, are committing a criminal offense when buying the body-rob services.

Very incorrect... You described what is a common bawdy house... A common bawdy house is a place that is kept or occupied, or resorted to by one or more persons, for the purpose of prostitution or the practice of acts of indecency. Common bawdy houses were illegal before and are still illegal. Only time it became legal was for that one year that the conservatives took to table a bill based on the Supreme Court's decision. Having said that even though the law is federal enforcement of the law falls upon the municipalities. Saskatoon for example has been on a rampage to bust any form of prostitution they had undercover US style sting operations to bust escorting. In this case the clients go to jail and whoever responsible for running a common bawdy house also goes to jail. A massage parlor can operate legally and most of them pass themselves as therapeutic massage places masquerading as common bawdy houses. It all comes down to selective enforcement.

 

[pat98]

En fait en arrivant ici au Canada, j'avais trouvé ça assez spécial ce double niveau de gouvernement et ce à plusieurs niveaux;
Doublement des taxes, doublement des lois et doublement des e*s*is de fonctionnaires lol (gâchis total de $$$)

Mais là, je dois dire, c'est amusant les voir aller !
Une loi fédérale pas ou très peu appliquée par le palier en dessous (provincial) et encore moins par le local (municipalité).
Cela dit quand la loi en question C36 est partisane et totalement stupide, finalement c'est bon ce 3 niveaux de fonctionnariat

Politique de merde et criss on paye des impôts pour ce gâchis total de ressource et de ... ok je me calme lol
:amen:

 

[gugu]

A common bawdy house is a place that is kept or occupied, or resorted to by one or more persons, for the purpose of prostitution or the practice of acts of indecency. Common bawdy houses were illegal before and are still illegal.

As part of the new law, the article 210 (bawdy house for prostitution) was abrogated and article 197 (bawdy house definition) was modified to take the word prostitution out of it. The modification does not change anything for strip clubs (indecency remains in the bawdy house definition) but it does not not apply anymore to prostitution. The Supreme Court said it was illegal to forbid incall if prostitution is legal. The government had to comply unless it made prostitution itself illegal, which it choose not to do by permitting the selling of sexual services.

The case I pointed out was a single or a couple of sex workers running an in call, or even a group like Indycompanion running 5 or 6 small incall locations. Saskatoon may well go after body-rob parlours. It is their entire prerogative ans they have many legal means to do it, pimping accusations being one of them theoretically at the criminal level, but mostly municipal regulations. I do't think they can use bawdy house accusations anymore in such cases.

Spacecadet, I doubt very much that a criminal lawyer would try to convince you that rub and tug is not prostitution according to the new law. The distinction between the two has no basis in law with the exception a a Superior Court judgement in Ontario 15 years ago string that masturbating a client is not prostitution. That judgement was not appealed and I doubt it would stand an appeal.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Gugu,

That is the biggest problem with the prostitution laws is that it is largely undefined and lacks a lot of specifics... It has too many grey areas which leaves a lot that is subjected to interpretation. For example of stripclubs it does not exactly define what is considered prostitution... Provincial authorities are attempting to distort the meaning of prostitution and stating that a girl grinding on a client lap for the purpose of sexual stimulation is prostitution when in reality there was no direct sexual contact. As for a common bawdy house I could not find anything that clearly defines what is considered as a common bawdy house. Is an incall a common bawdy house? Who knows. The laws are far too undefined. This is why I wrote this many times that it all boils down to selective enforcement and how and what they bust is all left to municipal authorities. I would strongly reconsider your last paragraph... Sexe D'Or and Bar Alfonsos were shut down for prostitution. If you read the judgement Quebec site at the judgements site you will see they and this was run by a provincial judge who took it straight to the supreme court who did not decline this judgement that a woman grinding or any kind of contact is deemed prostitution. A lot of things changed between now and 15 years ago. 15 years ago lapdancing was just legalized, tity bar licenses were being handed out to those who wanted to open, clubs that got burnt down were able to get a rezoning permit to rebuild. Now none of that is the case. We in reality have moved backwards by 50 years in social values.

 

[BookerL]

Il n'y a d'ailleurs qu'à constater toutes les agences autrefois exclusivement outcall maintenant propose toutes incall et selon mes sources cela peut même être la majorité de leur "chiffre d'affaire" !

Salut a tous et a toi Pat98

La majorité du chiffre d'affaire ?Hummmm?
Donc ils y a plus de incalls en heures dans l'industrie de l'escortes a Montreal ou plus de Booking ou la combinaison des deux ?
Des Bookings a plus de filles par calls en incalls que outcall ?
Le moins de frais récurrent en incalls ?

Concernant les arrestations ou non arrestations le/les policier(s) ont un pouvoir d'arrestation discrétionnaire c'était le cas avant C-36 c'est demeurer le cas après.
Une/des arrestation(s) sans condamnation était une perte de temps avant, cela le demeure après C-36 .


La preuve accumulé par la police devait résister au doute raisonnable avant c'est aussi le cas après C-36

Le fardeaux de la preuve revient a la Couronne c'était le cas avant cela est toujours le cas


Au plaisir




Booker

 

[gugu]

Well, Cloud, don't count on me to try to make sense out the new law! Prostitution laws don't make sense nowhere except in the few places where the state decides ... not to make prostitution laws. New Zealand is the best exemple. My understanding of the Sexe d'Or case is that it is linked to strong presumption of the hiring of at least one minor and the presence of pimps. It's closing is not a consequence of a criminal court decision. It's simply the result of a decision by the Régie des alcools who suspended their alcool permit. Alphonso is also a Régie des alcool decision. Of course, these decision can't be arbitrary. So there are auditions: the police make their case and the owner make their's. I've read the decision on the Sexe d'Or. It has many things: a minor, violence against officers and touching between dancers and between clients and dancers.

The jurisprudence is a bit complicated, but basically it goes like this: in 1999, the Supreme Court deemed the "danses contacts" legal in the Q against Pelletier case. The accusation had been made under 210 (1) (bawdy house) on the decency criteria. After the decision, dances contacts clubs multiplied in Québec and other parts of Canada. What fucked up things is a Québec Appeal Court decision in 2010 in the Marceau against Q case. This time, again under 210 (1), the crown responded not to the indecency criteria but to the prostitution criteria. It was determined that danses contacts were indeed prostitution. So from then on the Régie could take back any alcool permit to dances contacts strip clubs. That's where we are now. However, the important thing here is that LE informed all strip clubs of the decision but did not go on a rampage to close them all. They simply have that card in their pocket and they can use it in any case before the Régie. They use it mainly when there are other things happening: minors, dope, pimping, violence or organized crime.

You may ask what happens since the word prostitution is no longer part of the bawdy house definition and the article 210 abrogated. Well suffice it to say that there is prostitution in a strip club for the Régie to take back the alcool license. An owner has no chance contesting such decision considering the new law. The only unknown is whether the Québec Appeal Court decision would be upheld if a Strip club owner succeeded to bring a similar case to the Supreme Court.

We're drifting in the direction of trip clubs, here. However, the same logic would apply to massage parlours considering not much the decency criteria but the prostitution criteria. Also, the LE intervention principles are the same.

 

[Double G]

Salut a tous et a toi Pat98

La majorité du chiffre d'affaire ?Hummmm?
Donc ils y a plus de incalls en heures dans l'industrie de l'escortes a Montreal ou plus de Booking ou la combinaison des deux ?
Des Bookings a plus de filles par calls en incalls que outcall

Du outcall c'est la plupart du temps du incall étendu sur une zone géographique élargie. Pour les agences, une soirée de outcall ça se passe dans les mêmes 3 ou 4 motels "sp friendly". Penses-y deux minutes. La distinction est insignifiante.

 

[CLOUD 500]

Gugu,

You nailed it right on and this is pretty much the scenario. Most of the downtown Ste-Catherine St clubs had the no grind rule since they considered it indecent but could not be shut down based on that. Now it is prostitution. Needless to say Harpers sexist Nordic model law changed the game completely. Now it is all a question of selective enforcement. I am just not understanding exactly what is the agenda of the city. Yes for Regies de Alcool they essentially revoked these clubs nudity permits. They can open up as a regular bar but not stripclub. As for minors this is nothing knew Les Amazones had it license suspended for 6 months for that reason. Bar L'Escale had numerous incidents of this and it also had its permit suspended but none of these clubs were shut down. The Sexe D'Or and Bar Alfonso shut downs were very radical. They talk about sexual acts... It depends on what they consider a sexual act. Is a girl grinding a guys cock over the pants non stop a sexual act? Or was she giving him a handjob? There is just too much info missing. The clubs and massage parlors are sitting on eggshells right now. At any time any one of them could get shut down. The clubs and massage parlors best be at their best behavior if they know what is best for them.

 

[pat98]

Salut a tous et a toi Pat98

La majorité du chiffre d'affaire ?Hummmm?
Donc ils y a plus de incalls en heures dans l'industrie de l'escortes a Montreal ou plus de Booking ou la combinaison des deux ?
Des Bookings a plus de filles par calls en incalls que outcall ?
Le moins de frais récurrent en incalls ?

Salut BL
je parle du ratio incall vs outcall
oui plus incall que outcall si on parle en booking (principalement 1h très probablement)
le reste, je n'ai pas l'intention de faire une étude poussée et avant-gardiste de la situation du marché des agences de MTL !
Tu me finance pour faire cette étude ? :bounce:
(bon si c'est limité à moi comme "testeur", ça sera pas du tout représentatif, m'en criss ben raide des blanches neiges lol)
eace:

 

[gugu]

Now it is all a question of selective enforcement. [...] The clubs and massage parlors best be at their best behavior if they know what is best for them.

True. And I think it comes down to that almost everywhere anyway, whatever the legislation on prostitution. It may be the least worst solution when LE officers are left alone to do their job. I tend to trust LE more than legislators on these issues. When left to themselves, LE operate on more rational criteria. They combat real crimes, not what moral entrepreneurs define as crimes for ideological reasons. When they do shit, it"s usually because they are forced in a position to do so by local authorities, prosecutors or irresistible public pressures. They hate it when it happens. Grinding ( R v Caringi, [2002]) and hand jobs [R v Brandes 1997]) were both judged prostitution acts by some canadien courts in the past.