The Anti-Civilization Thread

[z/m(Ret)]

Never believed that there was a desire to exit.They needed a base for operations in the area.

My bad, they'll exit once they install their permanent military bases.

 

[Agrippa]

However, what good is a great economy that is globally self-destructive? All the positive attributes you refer to from industrialization aren't worth a damn if in the end we damage our world so bad that it threatens human survival.

Thank you Korbel for eloquently stating what I've been trying to say all along!

 

[eastender]

Selective aren't we.........

(sigh) Accidents happen in the forest (in the city, in deep space, underwater, etc...), irrespective of one's level of preparation.

By definition, an "accident" "is a detrimental event that occurs unexpectedly and unintentionally", i.e. an event you're not prepared for.

So you preclude an accident being a positive event.Certain positive scientific discoveries happened by accident.Leave out detrimental and you may have something.

No forest in my analogy.Sorry my points still hold.

 

[korbel]

Blushing

Thank you Korbel for eloquently stating what I've been trying to say all along!

Hello Agrippa,

I didn't think it was THAT good...but I will take a bow if no one minds...lol.

Blushing,

Korbel

 

[z/m(Ret)]

All the positive attributes you refer to from industrialization aren't worth a damn if in the end we damage our world so bad that it threatens human survival.

And let's not forget that very few benefit fully from the positive attributes while some benefit quite a bit from it whereas a great number benefit little or not at all and an even greater number suffer from the fact that the "very few" and the "some" benefit so much.

 

[eastender]

Oxymoron

My bad, they'll exit once they install their permanent military bases.

Exit once they install their permanent military bases would be a classic oxymoron.

 

[z/m(Ret)]

So you preclude an accident being a positive event.Certain positive scientific discoveries happened by accident.Leave out detrimental and you may have something.

No forest in my analogy.Sorry my points still hold.

Can someone tell me what substance oozes from mental masturbation?

 

[Agrippa]

COPD (MPOC in French) - note the correct term,is mainly caused by smoking although contributing factors may be various chemicals used in refining metals and ores,asbestos,etc.

Since you want to nitpick on typos, I'll point out that after the little point at the end of a sentence, there is a 'gap.' Like I just did and am about to do now. Whatever the disease is called, you knew what I meant, since you brought it up. You are also proving my point for me. Refining those things are industry. These things contribute to dis-ease. There are many others that have yet to be eliminated. This is what I'm talking about! You are either too rational for your own good (I've already said this) or a dolt.

Smoking was an indulgence long before industrialization and technology. Leftover from an agricultural age.Years ago people would simply die before reaching the COPD stage. Now COPD is an issue because medical technology sustains life longer.

No COPD is present because it is caused and aggravated by human activity.

Most of the examples in your caricature have been eliminated or the effects of emissions have been greatly reduced,again by technology.

Key word: caricature. Which part of

Nowhere did I argue against medicine [sic] and technology.

did you not get. Yes, everything would be nice and dandy if we had an easy way to refine H2 and were using H2 combustion engines instead. But sadly we do not. Until then, let's try and minimize the shit we spew into our atmosphere and all breathe.

As for your trade proposal....................????????????????

When was a trade proposal brought up? What are you talking about?

 

[z/m(Ret)]

Exit once they install their permanent military bases would be a classic oxymoron.

No shit, Einstein! Wow!

 

[Agrippa]

Exit once they install their permanent military bases would be a classic oxymoron.

Okay, it's obvious now, you were a bouncer for too long. You are a dolt!

 

[eastender]

Agent Orange in Oregon

I have a story for youzguys: a group of Ghandi inspired eco-activists in Oregon would gather on a hillside whenever they knew that transnational timber corporations would be spraying it with Agent Orange, a potent defoliant. They were hoping that their presence would convince the helicopters pilots to stop the poisoning. Instead, the helicopters would dump loads of Agent Orange onto the hillside and onto the protesters. Later on, one not-so-Ghandian Vietnam veteran who was living in one of those hills went up to the Bureau of Land Management and to Boise Cascade saying: "We know the names of your helicopter pilots, and we know their addresses"... The spraying stopped.

Unless one has a vested interest in ignorance, it should be clear to everyone that industrial civilization is killing the planet and causing unprecedented human privation and suffering.

Questions: what do youzguys do about it? Nada? You hope for better days? You vote for the party with the better environmental program? You protest? And if you do, how do you do it? What's your style? Ghandian? Seattlean? Shit! Kaczynskian? Where do you stand on the hostility scale? If non-violent actions don't work, must we then resort to violence to save ourselves and, along the way, the planet? Speaking of the planet, what would the rivers, the salmons and the trees want? And, BTW, what do we, humans, want? What is it gonna take?

ZM,
Please provide a link to the site that offers proof supporting your story.
Failing to do so a retraction would be in order.

 

[korbel]

Yep!!!!!!!!!!

And let's not forget that very few benefit fully from the positive attributes while some benefit quite a bit from it whereas a great number benefit little or not at all and an even greater number suffer from the fact that the "very few" and the "some" benefit so much.

Hello Ziggy,

That's a DITTO from me buddy.

Spread the wealth,

Korbel

 

[z/m(Ret)]

ZM,
Please provide a link to the site that offers proof supporting your story.
Failing to do so a retraction would be in order.

What makes you say that the story comes from a website? And what makes you say that a website would warrant the authenticity of the story?

What you lost your Rubik's cube or something?

 

[eastender]

Reference Your Story

What makes you say that the story comes from a website?

Viet Nam War veterens have numerous websites dedicated to "Agent Orange"
but none of them show that "Agent Orange" was sprayed in Oregon.

Any credible and verifiable source will do.A link would be the simplest.

 

[eastender]

Authenticity

What makes you say that the story comes from a website? And what makes you say that a website would warrant the authenticity of the story?

What you lost your Rubik's cube or something?

Basic question.Do you warrant authenticity of what you post? Yes or no?

 

[Agrippa]

A link would be the simplest.

Yes, a link would be simplest, since libraries are closed at this hour. The story comes from the introduction to Derrick Jensen's Endgame, Volume 1: The Problem of Civilization.

Why go back and challenge the veracity of the first post after 14 pages?

 

[z/m(Ret)]

Basic question.Do you warrant authenticity of what you post? Yes or no?

Are you a betting man? If I can't prove the story's authenticity, I retire from this board. Ready to do the same?

 

[eastender]

No Bets

Are you a betting man? If I can't prove the story's authenticity, I retire from this board. Ready to do the same?

Playing with words again Ziggy. A story may be authentic but not necessarily true. It is possible to show that a work of fiction is the authentic work of an author but that would not make it true.

Simple yes or no did your seminal post in this thread happen in the real world.
A refusal to answer will be interpreted as a "no".

 

[eastender]

Yes, a link would be simplest, since libraries are closed at this hour. The story comes from the introduction to Derrick Jensen's Endgame, Volume 1: The Problem of Civilization.

Why go back and challenge the veracity of the first post after 14 pages?

I challenge things when the timing is right - years ago worked with a Viet Nam vet and wanted his imput. Received it a few hours ago.

 

[Agrippa]

A story may be authentic but not necessarily true.

Huh?

authentic:

1. not false or copied; genuine; real: an authentic antique
2. having the origin supported by unquestionable evidence; authenticated; verified: an authentic document of the Middle Ages; an authentic work of the old master.