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U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords D-Arizona Shot.

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CLAVIE

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IF the freedom of speech use for defend USA interest, they call that freedom of speech. If It use for against USA interest, eg. wikileaks released the information that we never knew before, they made every thing in their exposition to destroy this freedom of speech. It depend it's usefull or not for the USA interest.

Never forget USA created the difference groupe dangereous terroristes for defendre their interest in difference part on the earth, eg. Ronald Reagan called the Taliban: ''the Freedom Fighter'' and now the name changing for terroriste, because the Talibans fighted against USA interest.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvFj1QIn1EA
 
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Voyager

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Absolute horrifying act of murder, and I hope for the best for the wounded & condolences for the families of the dead.

Mods, same rules as a memorial thread. No ugliness or flaming of the subject (the victims) allowed. Merlot

I applaud your efforts, but did you really expect self-control or moderation of remarks?

Alot of people posting in this "memorial thread" should be ashamed of themselves!

Voyager
 

Doc Holliday

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Giffords able to communicate

Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords is able to communicate with doctors by following simple commands, a doctor said Sunday. "We are very encouraged by that," said Dr. Michael Lemole, Jr., chief of neurosurgery at University Medical Center in Tuscon, Arizona. "I am cautiously optimistic."

Giffords remained in critical condition after a gunman shot her in the head and then opened fire on a crowd at a political meet-and-greet outside an Arizona supermarket. The shooting killed six people, including a federal judge and a 9-year-old girl, and wounded 14 others, authorities said. Two people tackled the suspected shooter, stopping a spray of bullets that turned a calm "Congress on Your Corner" event in Tucson into what President Barack Obama later described as an "unspeakable tragedy."

Local authorities took custody of suspect Jared Lee Loughner at the scene, and he was later transferred to federal custody, FBI Director Robert Mueller told reporters Sunday. Formal charges are expected against Loughner Sunday afternoon, he said. Authorities were questioning a second person Sunday in connection with the case, according to a law enforcement source. It was unclear what connection the person may have to the case and unknown whether it was the same man seen in a surveillance photo released by investigators Sunday morning.

Police said the man, between 40 and 50 years old, was "possibly associated with the suspect." The dark-haired man was spotted "in proximity" to the suspect at the location where the shooting occurred. Authorities were interviewing witnesses to determine whether there was a connection between the man and Loughner.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/01/09/arizona.shooting/index.html?hpt=T1
 

Doc Holliday

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Christina-Taylor Green (2001-2011)

Christina-Taylor Green was Dallas Green's grand-daughter

4d29504294407.preview-300.jpg
 

Merlot

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Hello all,

I applaud your efforts, but did you really expect self-control or moderation of remarks?

Alot of people posting in this "memorial thread" should be ashamed of themselves!

Voyager

My goal was respect for the dead and the wounded victims, nothing more. I fully expected that people would take positions they are politically predisposed to taking, including the fact that this episode would lead to venting of old grievances, which I agree can become shameful. But it is unavoidable given the highly sensitive nature of the subject and the extremely charged political atmosphere surrounding it. There is a clear relation to the bitterness of recent political campaigns and this tragedy, which makes certain connections relevant. It's just too bad old hates are leading to some political exploitation in the blame game. Still I cannot help but understand why given the relentless hyper-political polarization and extreme accompanying vitriol that has been used the local political arena where the shootings happened.

It is getting ugly and I am sure the mods will end this when they have had enough. I have the feeling they are about 90% there now.

In the end gentlemen, this killer seems to have been verified very disturbed and predisposed to the act. However anyone else may have contributed to the general atmosphere, one very disturbed person chose to do this. I doubt, despite the type of campaigns that have been run, that this was the intention of Palin or Kelly. Any discussion about the culpability of anyone else is argumentative at this time based on the information available. I am not saying I disagree in essence necessarily, but some seem to want to lay more blame on Palin and Kelly than deserved.

I don't have anything against an honest opinion, but if anyone would see this as a political opportunity then I think they should rethink the character of their motives.

BTW...the terms "targeted" and "in the crosshairs" have been used in many forms by many individuals, entities, and enterprises for many purposes. For example: video games and news exposes.

cheers,

Merlot
 
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hungry101

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Oct 29, 2007
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It's irrelevant where on the political spectrum the shooter is located. He's obviously mentally ill & people like him (hundreds of thousands are as crazy as he is & currently walking out streets) are easily influensable by what our leaders & politicans say or write. People saying & writing things like what Palin & Kelly have been saying or posting need to take responsibility for their actions. I'd also go as far as saying that Sarah Palin & Jesse Kelly should currently be held on accessory-to-murder charges until they can be exhonorated.

This is insane. What else is Sarah Palin responsible for? “In the Crosshairs” or “targeted” is a metaphor. This isn’t equivalent to something like Muqtada al-Sadr’s recent public address. Because some lunatic runs amuck this is going to infringe on the free speech of others? We can’t use metaphors?

Also, this woman seemed to be on the right (correct) side of illegal immigration and the right to bear arms. The judge was a Bush appointee etc. So I don’t get it?

My heart goes out to the victims. I hope they hang the bastards that did this. I am not using “hang” as a metaphor.
 

lgna69xxx

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Some people need to grow the hell up in this thread, there are people dead of a horrific act, this is not the thread to take sides or beat your chests as to who is right or wrong, have a little compassion for the victims and take your love or hate of one political party somewhere else.
 

CLAVIE

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Some people need to grow the hell up in this thread, there are people dead of a horrific act, this is not the thread to take sides or beat your chests as to who is right or wrong, have a little compassion for the victims and take your love or hate of one political party somewhere else.

You're right ! I would like be the first one to say : I have a great COMPASSION for the 2 millions unname innocent Iraqis women and children had been killed under the silence during 8 years by the occupation army !
 

Doc Holliday

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In the end gentlemen, this killer seems to have been verified very disturbed and predisposed to the act. However anyone else may have contributed to the general atmosphere, one very disturbed person chose to do this. I doubt, despite the type of campaigns that have been run, that this was the intention of Palin or Kelly. Any discussion about the culpability of anyone else is argumentative at this time based on the information available. I am not saying I disagree in essence necessarily, but some seem to want to lay more blame on Palin and Kelly than deserved.

I wouldn't be surprised if all those people would still be alive and/or healthy today if it weren't for Sarah Palin posting this 'hit' map. I firmly believe this. Nothing can or will make me think otherwise.

It's been well reported over the past couple of years that rallies held by Sarah Palin & the Tea Party, among others, are used to inflame their supporters. Violence, bigotry & racism have been a common denominator at those rallies & many have complained about this & what might happen if a sicko decides to take their words at task & act. Many supporters at those rallies have even showed up with riffles! Well, yesterday's shootings are the result of this.

p.s. Why do you think those people are still trying to convince their followers that Barak Obama is a muslim? Why?
 
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Doc Holliday

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Some people need to grow the hell up in this thread, there are people dead of a horrific act, this is not the thread to take sides or beat your chests as to who is right or wrong, have a little compassion for the victims and take your love or hate of one political party somewhere else.

People should take a good look in the mirror before telling others they need to grow up. If those same people don't like to read other people's opinions in this thread, they should simply ignore the thread & head back to other threads where they can argue forever about irrelevant issues & topics (e.g. sports).
 
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Doc Holliday

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Arizona Sheriff Calls State “A Mecca For Prejudice And Bigotry”

Arizona — Pima County Sheriff Clarence W. Dupnik, who is overseeing the investigation of Saturday’s mass shooting that critically wounded Rep. Gabrielle Giffords (D), became an overnight sensation with his remarks that the “vitriol” in today’s political discourse contributed to the incident and that Arizona has become “a mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”

Dupnik’s name was a top search term on Twitter Saturday night, with many of the tweets thanking him for his candor, and overnight, a Facebook page titled “Clarence Dupnik is my Hero” sprung up.

In a news conference Saturday evening, Dupnik condemned the “atmosphere of hatred and bigotry” that he said has gripped the nation and suggested that the 22-year-old suspect being held in the shooting was mentally ill and therefore more susceptible to overheated messages in the media.

“There’s reason to believe that this individual may have a mental issue. And I think people who are unbalanced are especially susceptible to vitriol,” he said during his televised remarks. “People tend to pooh-pooh this business about all the vitriol we hear inflaming the American public by people who make a living off of doing that. That may be free speech, but it’s not without consequences.”

His remarks especially resonated with liberals, who even before the name of the suspect was released suggested that the shooter may have had been incited by the tea party. There is no indication that the suspect, Jared Lee Lougner, identified with the tea party or was politically conservative. During the campaign, liberal pundits and politicians asserted that the sometimes militant language some conservative politicians used could incite violence.

http://newsone.com/nation/newsonest...nik-calls-arizona-mecca-of-prejudice-bigotry/
 

rumpleforeskiin

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Michael Daly said:
Rep. Gabrielle Giffords' blood is on Sarah Palin's hands after putting cross hair over district
Here is what Sarah Palin said on the Facebook page where she depicted Gabrielle Giffords in the cross hairs of a rifle scope: "Don't retreat! Instead - RELOAD!"

Well, the guy who shot Giffords yesterday managed to keep firing until he killed six, including a child, and wounded 13 .

Palin would no doubt say that she was only speaking in metaphor, that she only meant her followers should work to unseat Giffords and 19 other Democrats who had roused her ire by voting for health care.

But anyone with any sense at all knows that violent language can incite actual violence, that metaphor can incite murder. At the very least, Palin added to a climate of violence.

Palin should have taken it as a warning of what might happen when a Tea Party hothead dropped a gun while heckling Giffords at an earlier Congress On Your Corner event, more than a year ago.

That did not stop Palin from declaring Giffords a "target." Giffords' district office was subsequently vandalized, and the congresswoman noted that Palin had put "the cross hairs of a gun sight over our district."

"When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said.

Giffords herself at least publicly failed to appreciate the full magnitude of the danger. She said at the time of the dropped gun incident that "at no point did I ever feel in danger and at no point did I ever feel there was a problem."

"When you represent a district that includes the home of the O.K. Corral and Tombstone, 'the Town Too Tough to Die,' nothing's a surprise out in Cochise County," Giffords was quoted saying.

In citing the famous shootout at the O.K. Corral in Tombstone, Giffords did not note that the gunplay was sparked when the Earp brothers sought to enforce town ordinance No. 9.

That law was promulgated on April 19, 1881, by the Earps themselves. It prohibited carrying "deadly weapons, concealed or otherwise" including "firearms of every description."

For Giffords to have cited Ordinance No. 9 could have meant political ruin in a district that romanticizes the O.K. Corral as part of its "gun culture."

Either out of political expediency or actual belief, Giffords herself spoke fondly of this supposed legacy of the Wild West.

"In my district and in my state, we have a very strong gun culture," she said in May when asked for her position regarding a renewed ban on assault weapons.

She had been one of the members of Congress who added their support to the effort to overturn the gun ban in Washington.

She also noted in interviews that she herself owned a Glock 9 mm. The NRA still branded her as an opponent because she had dared to suggest that guns should not be carried in bars.

Even if Giffords had been carrying her Glock at her latest Congress On Your Corner event yesterday, she would have had no time to reach for it and defend herself. Unlike in all those westerns, gunmen bent on homicide almost never give you a chance to draw.

And, unlike in the real Arizona of old, there was no Ordinance No. 9, no Earp brothers in the crowd yesterday to enforce it, to maybe spot the killer with the gun before he had a chance to use it.

The result was exactly the kind of carnage the Earps had sought to prevent with their attempt at instilling gun-control culture.

And, now that Palin may have the blood of more than some poor caribou on her hands, I wonder if she will continue putting people in cross hairs and calling on folks to RELOAD!

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...uld_have_known_the_dangers.html#ixzz1AdDiEr99
Hey, Doc, she represents Tombstone. Did you and Wyatt vote for her?
 

StefanoUS

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Violence, bigotry & racism have been a common denominator at those rallies & many have complained about this & what might happen if a sicko decides to take their words at task & act. Many supporters at those rallies have even showed up with riffles! Well, yesterday's shootings are the result of this.

I really don't care about the Tea Party one way or another, but I have seen video of the rallies and have never seen any violence, bigotry, racism, or anyone with rifles! That is unless you are refering to people complaining about illegal aliens. People that are mentally ill are not defined by political parties. John Wilkes Booth shot and killed the Republican / National Union Party President Abraham Lincoln. Just another example of an angry sick person going to the extreme.
 

rumpleforeskiin

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I really don't care about the Tea Party one way or another, but I have seen video of the rallies and have never seen any violence, bigotry, racism, or anyone with rifles! That is unless you are refering to people complaining about illegal aliens. People that are mentally ill are not defined by political parties. John Wilkes Booth shot and killed the Republican / National Union Party President Abraham Lincoln. Just another example of an angry sick person going to the extreme.
Boy, are you off base. Item one, apparently you weren't watching the news when people were showing up at tea party rallies in the summer of 2009 with guns on their hips and violence on the placards. Item two, John Wilkes Booth was not an angry, sick person. His killing of the President was a clear act of political vengeance. OK, well, he might have been sick, but there's no question of his motive.
 

Jman47

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Some people need to grow the hell up in this thread, there are people dead of a horrific act, this is not the thread to take sides or beat your chests as to who is right or wrong, have a little compassion for the victims and take your love or hate of one political party somewhere else.

Well put Iggy...I could not agree more. Not the time, nor the place.
Our thoughts and prayers should go out to the victims and their families.

Respectfully,

Jman
 
K

Kansas Frank

We Americans are beginning to realize that we have radicals among us and attacks came come from within, as well as from without.

I wonder if sex work were legalized and taxed in the US, would the taxes collected from this occupation exceed the taxes collected from the sales of handguns to the public. (I understand no citizen in the UK can buy or own a handgun.)

(Protected) Sex does not kill (but brings pleasure and harmony).

Guns kills because people can fatally harm another person by shooting a loaded gun at him/her.

The "Founding Fathers" should have included the right to sell sex in the constitution, just as they did to the right to keep arms.
 

Guido

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Nov 21, 2010
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We Americans are beginning to realize that we have radicals among us and attacks came come from within, as well as from without.

I wonder if sex work were legalized and taxed in the US, would the taxes collected from this occupation exceed the taxes collected from the sales of handguns to the public. (I understand no citizen in the UK can buy or own a handgun.)

(Protected) Sex does not kill (but brings pleasure and harmony).

Guns kills because people can fatally harm another person by shooting a loaded gun at him/her.

The "Founding Fathers" should have included the right to sell sex in the constitution, just as they did to the right to keep arms.

Frank you have my vote.
 

Merlot

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Hello all,

Boy, are you off base. Item one, apparently you weren't watching the news when people were showing up at tea party rallies in the summer of 2009 with guns on their hips and violence on the placards. Item two, John Wilkes Booth was not an angry, sick person. His killing of the President was a clear act of political vengeance. OK, well, he might have been sick, but there's no question of his motive.

Rumples that is obviously what it was at face value, but it's not all that it was and may not have been the prime motive. He had an opportunity to kill Lincoln at the second inauguration and had a deep feelings of self-loathing as a coward for that failure and the lack of courage to serve the South in battle. So overall, the assassination had a lot to do with ego restoration also, rather than belief in a "cause". NOT...that any of this is really relevant at all, but as a history person...I couldn't help indulging here.

I really don't care about the Tea Party one way or another, but I have seen video of the rallies and have never seen any violence, bigotry, racism, or anyone with rifles! That is unless you are refering to people complaining about illegal aliens. People that are mentally ill are not defined by political parties. John Wilkes Booth shot and killed the Republican / National Union Party President Abraham Lincoln. Just another example of an angry sick person going to the extreme.

On point: StefanoUS, I have to agree with you on this. Mental illness is "not defined by political parties", and no part of the political spectrum has a monopoly on violence. Also, it has been extremely distressing to listen to all sides pointing fingers and deflecting blame and shamefully reducing this tragedy into a continuous flow of political posturing everywhere on talk radio and blogging sites...and more.

However StefanoUS, putting aside any reference to this recent tragedy, your statement that you "have never seen any violence, bigotry, racism, or anyone with rifles" is nothing less than mind-blowing. Well feast your eyes bro. It sure was easy to find:

http://newsjunkiepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/912-TeaParty-DC-We-came-unarmed-this-time.jpg Threat of arms.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site577/2009/0821/20090821_110043_teaparty1_400.jpg Painted as Hitler

http://restoretheconstitution.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/20100102__news07guns01032_gallery.jpg ARMED!

http://www.bradblog.com/Images/TeaPartyComix_ObamaSmoking.jpg Racist minstrel poster.

http://www.teapartyobamastore.com/images/02-4-10-t-shirt--10-ussr0-2.jpg Communist.

http://chattahbox.com/images/2009/10/dc_tea_party_socialism.jpg Racist minstrel and Socialist

http://threesecondsofdeadair.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/tea-party-signs2.jpg Fascist, Socialist, Communist.

http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/tea-party-racist-signs-07-white-slavery2.jpg Racist-baiting fear mongering.

I mean, where have you been living...an uncharted island in the Pacific with two or more years of communications blackout? Even in Massachusetts where I went to mail some letters at the post office I passed within less than a foot of a Tea Party protester with a big poster of President Obama with a big fat Hitler mustache.

"For as long as I've been alive, crosshairs and bull's eyes have been an accepted part of the graphical lexicon when it comes to political debates," wrote Slate's Jack Shafer. "Such 'inflammatory' words as targeting, attacking, destroying, blasting, crushing, burying, knee-capping, and others have similarly guided political thought and action. Not once have the use of these images or the words tempted me or anybody else I know to kill."

StefanoUS, while I agree the mental illness of and murders by this killer cannot be laid on any party, the bitterness and hate-baiting, coupled with the continuous hyper-employment of pointedly violent suggestive language that has immersed the state of Arizona cannot have avoided lending a sense of permissiveness to a violently predisposed sick mind. I could never agree with anyone saying that was "the cause", but the influence of this atmosphere in undeniable even if not decisive. Anyone who contributed to that should be called to question...if not held directly accountable.

I disagree with the article posted by Curious. Being bombarded with violence related terms excuses nothing, but how can any deny that living in conditions of total immersion of rancor and violence-suggestive messages over such a long time affects the general social psychology of even healthy minds. So I agree generally with Rumples. Still, this focus solely on Palin by him and Doc looks very personal instead of being on principle when Jesse Kelly and many others involved in creating the atmosphere in that state don't get any mention.

Overall, it's very sad and discouraging that there was no chance this tragedy wouldn't be politicized.

:(

Merlot
 
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Guido

Member
Nov 21, 2010
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Hello all,



Rumples that is obviously what it was at face value, but it's not all that it was and may not have been the prime motive. He had an opportunity to kill Lincoln at the second inauguration and had a deep feelings of self-loathing as a coward for that failure and the lack of courage to serve the South in battle. So overall, the assassination had a lot to do with ego restoration also, rather than belief a "cause". NOT...that any of this is really relevant at all, but as a history person...I couldn't help indulging here.



On point: StefanoUS, I have to agree with you on this. Mental illness is "not defined by political parties", and no part of the political spectrum has a monopoly on violence. Also, it has been extremely distressing to listen to all sides pointing fingers and deflecting blame and shamefully reducing this tragedy into a continuous flow of political posturing everywhere on talk radio and blogging sites...and more.

However StefanoUS, putting aside any reference to this recent tragedy, your statement that you "have never seen any violence, bigotry, racism, or anyone with rifles" is nothing less than mind-blowing. Well feast your eyes bro. It sure was easy to find:

http://newsjunkiepost.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/912-TeaParty-DC-We-came-unarmed-this-time.jpg Threat of arms.

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site577/2009/0821/20090821_110043_teaparty1_400.jpg Painted as Hitler

http://restoretheconstitution.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/20100102__news07guns01032_gallery.jpg ARMED!

http://www.bradblog.com/Images/TeaPartyComix_ObamaSmoking.jpg Racist minstrel poster.

http://www.teapartyobamastore.com/images/02-4-10-t-shirt--10-ussr0-2.jpg Communist.

http://chattahbox.com/images/2009/10/dc_tea_party_socialism.jpg Racist minstrel and Socialist

http://threesecondsofdeadair.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/tea-party-signs2.jpg Fascist, Socialist, Communist.

http://www.phawker.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/tea-party-racist-signs-07-white-slavery2.jpg Racist-baiting fear mongering.

I mean, where have you been living...an uncharted island in the Pacific with two or more years of communications blackout? Even in Massachusetts where I went to mail some letters at the post office I passed within less than a foot of a Tea Party protester with a big poster of President Obama with a big fat Hitler mustache.



StefanoUS, while I agree the mental illness of and murders by this killer cannot be laid on any party, the bitterness and hate-baiting, coupled with the continuous hyper-employment of pointedly violent suggestive language that has immersed the state of Arizona cannot have avoided lending a sense of permissiveness to a violently predisposed sick mind. I could never agree with anyone saying that was "the cause", but the influence of this atmosphere in undeniable even if not decisive. Anyone who contributed to that should be called to question...if not held directly accountable.

I disagree with the article posted by Curious. Being bombarded with violence related terms excuses nothing, but how can any deny that living in conditions of total immersion of rancor and violence-suggestive messages over such a long time affects the general social psychology of even healthy minds. So I agree generally with Rumples. Still, this focus solely on Palin by him and Doc looks very personal instead of being on principle when Jesse Kelly and many others involved in creating the atmosphere in that state don't get any mention.

Overall, it's very sad and discouraging that there was no chance this tragedy wouldn't be politicized.

:(

Merlot

That's a great post Merlot. It's nice to read something that isn't motivated by a political agenda.
 
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