Unemployment rate among blacks in Quebec

[General Gonad]

Did anyone read the front page article in the Montreal Gazette discussing the unemployment problem of blacks in Quebec? Apparently, the unemployment rate for blacks in Quebec is twice that of the rest of the population - 17%! The articles discusses some contributing factors like ethnocentrism but it is scandalous. I guess la Revolution Tranquille has excluded a lot of visible minorities, especially blacks.

On that note, I bid you good night,

GG

 

[eastender]

Unemployment rate for Blacks

Did anyone read the front page article in the Montreal Gazette discussing the unemployment problem of blacks in Quebec? Apparently, the unemployment rate for blacks in Quebec is twice that of the rest of the population - 17%! The articles discusses some contributing factors like ethnocentrism but it is scandalous. I guess la Revolution Tranquille has excluded a lot of visible minorities, especially blacks.

On that note, I bid you good night,

GG

Well go down to the Gazette,Journal de Montreal,La Presse and other major Quebec newspapers and see how many visible minorities are employed and then draw your own conclusions.

Articles sell newspapers but they do not solve problems.Let's see if the Gazette starts changing its hiring policies - likewise will the other provincial newspapers follow suit.

 

[General Gonad]

Excellent point

Eastender,

You bring up an excellent point and the article does not mention the Gazette's or any other newspaper's hiring policy. These statistics just prove that we as a society have not adequately addressed all forms of racism, especially the subtle, ethnocentric forms that pervade all organizations. And it is not just a matter of hiring the token black person to show you are aware of the importance of cultural diversity; it is more about hiring the right candidates despite their skin color. French Canadians have come a long way since the old days when they were subjected to the 'tyranny' of Anglo bosses but I think the pendulum has swung the other way and many of the elite Quebecers in power today are not doing enough to diversify their senior management.


GG

 

[eastender]

Somewhat More Complex

Eastender,

You bring up an excellent point and the article does not mention the Gazette's or any other newspaper's hiring policy. These statistics just prove that we as a society have not adequately addressed all forms of racism, especially the subtle, ethnocentric forms that pervade all organizations. And it is not just a matter of hiring the token black person to show you are aware of the importance of cultural diversity; it is more about hiring the right candidates despite their skin color. French Canadians have come a long way since the old days when they were subjected to the 'tyranny' of Anglo bosses but I think the pendulum has swung the other way and many of the elite Quebecers in power today are not doing enough to diversify their senior management.


GG

Actually as a society we have learned how to be politically correct racists.
Articles get published because it diverts the attention from your own backyard.

The tyranny of bosses has been replaced by the tyranny of unions - specifically changes cannot be made because with modern technology jobs shrink so openings that would previously occur thru attrition now go unfilled
so the visible face of the work force does not change.Affirmative action initiatives are not possible due to job guarantees given to existing unionized workers.

Actually all peoples and races are tyrants over their own before they become tyrants of others.Do not have time to expand on this today - sometime next week.It will not be a book.

 

[eastender]

Tyrants over their own.

Actually all peoples and races are tyrants over their own before they become tyrants of others.Do not have time to expand on this today - sometime next week.It will not be a book.

There is a basic misconception that specific races or peoples tend to exploit or suppress other races when in fact the opposite is more than often true.A race or a people will exploit or suppress their own.

At a very basic level look at the family unit the tyranical father or manipulative mother who shows a different image outside the home.

Expand this to relationships - it is easier for a boyfriend to exploit a girlfriend
and vice versa because a level of trust has been built.Also since exploiters are basically lazy and egocentric (they tend to view these traits as being focused and efficient) they are not interested in going beyond their comfort zone.

Going on to the small business level.Many are ethnically focused such as restaurants,importers/exporters, low end service entities(cleaners etc).They employ workers from their community who as a rule are significantly underpaid
- below minimum wage,without standard benefits.The workers go along because they do not know better,their circumstance is significantly better than it would be back home or they have been sold a bill of goods about making sacrificies for a greater cause etc.

Politically - populist or demagogue politicians who sell-out their people or resources for their own gain ( power,money,both).Premier Duplessis who promised the Americans that the Quebec work force would work for the lowest wages while the Americans developed the asbestos,pulp and paper,and other industries.

Only when their own human and natural resources cease to become available is it necessary for an exploiter to look beyond the secular group.

 

[General Gonad]

There is a basic misconception that specific races or peoples tend to exploit or suppress other races when in fact the opposite is more than often true.A race or a people will exploit or suppress their own.

Eastender,

I agree with you on this main point but I think it is very difficult to explain the huge discrepancies in unemployment rates between blacks and whites in Quebec without concluding that racism plays a role, especially when the official stats tell us that, on average, blacks are more educated than whites.

GG

 

[eastender]

Applicable Education

Eastender,

I agree with you on this main point but I think it is very difficult to explain the huge discrepancies in unemployment rates between blacks and whites in Quebec without concluding that racism plays a role, especially when the official stats tell us that, on average, blacks are more educated than whites.

GG

The value of any education is its function.So if someone is educated but that education is not applicable within the context of where they are living then unemployment is created.There are many examples of professionals coming to
Quebec from other parts of the world who for a variety of reasons cannot get their competency recognized so they become under employed or unemployed.

The linguistic factor ia a greater factor than race.Take the health care system.The two cornerstones are that it is free AND that it must be provided in the official language of choice(French or English).Even the most uninformed can determine if something is free or if the service is offered in English or French.Very few people have sufficient knowledge to determine if a specific instance of health care is of the highest quality possible.

So by creating an artificial criteria for competence - language as opposed to medical knowledge the quality of care suffers,people are under employed or unemployed and the visible minority aspect of the work force retains the status quo.This artificial criteria appeals to all biased interest groups and so it is perpetuated.

 

[spin]

Did anyone read the front page article in the Montreal Gazette discussing the unemployment problem of blacks in Quebec? Apparently, the unemployment rate for blacks in Quebec is twice that of the rest of the population - 17%! The articles discusses some contributing factors like ethnocentrism but it is scandalous. I guess la Revolution Tranquille has excluded a lot of visible minorities, especially blacks.

I would be very interested in seeing the unemplyoment rate of 17% for blacks in Quebec compared with the unemployment rates of other visible minorities in Quebec (ie. Asians, east Indians, etc...) as opposed to comparing it to the rest of the population.

 

[Tommy G]

Imho

I think that the unemployment is high when one can make more money by recieving checks from the gov. and selling drugs or something on the side. Some might call me ignorant but this is what I see happening all over the city.

 

[K Douglas]

Eastender,

I agree with you on this main point but I think it is very difficult to explain the huge discrepancies in unemployment rates between blacks and whites in Quebec without concluding that racism plays a role, especially when the official stats tell us that, on average, blacks are more educated than whites.

GG

Please quote official stats that say blacks are more educated than whites, I cannot believe that to be true. I'm not surprised by this rate, many of these blacks are 1st generation immigrants from Haiti - one of the poorest countries on the planet. I'd hazard a guess and say many of these don't have adequate education and skill levels that are required for many of the jobs on the market.
Now I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, it is pervasive at the institutional level, particularly when it comes to upper management positions. Many qualified black workers are passed over for promotion in these areas. It has improved over the years but work still needs to be done. We need more black Presidents, CEO's, CFO's, CTO's, VP's, we also need fellow blacks to be supportive of their brothers and sisters instead of calling them sellouts or soft because of their success in the workplace.

 

[Cosmo]

Parizeau just avoided the politically correctness bs.That's all.He said that they lost the referrendum because ethnics massively voted NO.It doesn't take inspector Cluso to confirm that.
Some polls in Cote-Saint-Luc were 2000 for No and 0 for yes.
It took balls to say it but he did.
On the other hand Trudeau once said that Bourassa was a ''mangeur de Hot dog''.Insinuating most quebecois were like him.
But that was cool of course.

 

[spin]

Parizeau just avoided the politically correctness bs.That's all.He said that they lost the referrendum because ethnics massively voted NO.It doesn't take inspector Cluso to confirm that.
Some polls in Cote-Saint-Luc were 2000 for No and 0 for yes.
It took balls to say it but he did.

He could have also said that they lost the referrendum because French Canadians DID NOT massively vote YES! Inspector Cluso would also not be needed to figure out that Ethnics do NOT make up anywhere near 50% (+1) of the voting population in the province of Quebec.

Lets not confuse having balls with being stupid - this statement effectively ended his Political career.

 

[StripperLover]

Cosmo,

What is it that you're suggesting exactly (say it buddy, be a Parizeau) by your following statement?;

Some polls in Cote-Saint-Luc were 2000 for No and 0 for yes.

Bourassa had hardly evolved into a typical Quebecois by marrying into the Simard family.

Quite convenient & easy for Parizeau to make his racist remarks, as he could easily whisk himself off to his vineyard in the south of France bought via his family's insurance fortune, borne on the backs of his Quebecois brethren & then leaving them after his financial ruination of this province.

 

[Cosmo]

It is so rare that a politician tells the thruth that when one does he goes by being racist stupid ect...
It's true that french voters did not vote 100% for yes but something near 75-80 % whereas ethnics voted about 5-10 %.What's wrong with saying that?Isn'T it the truth?
I won't hide behind politically correctness bs.It's a straight fact that most ethnics didn't vote yes.Cote st luc DDO, ECT...
Once again what's wrong with saying it?
Call me Parizeau all you want I don't care.
Let's call a cat a cat.
Those are facts,I did't invented them.
Oh and by the way,how much time it takes for an immigrant to be allowed to vote in federal elections?
A few years?
How come 60 000 newly arrived immigrants were given voting rights as soon as they stepped of the plane?
Those people were greeted by federal agents insisting they should vote NO.
But again,I'm sure that was ok,after all Canada is such a nice country.
We lost by about 50 000 votes,btw.

 

[StripperLover]

Cosmo,

Besides all thr rhetoric that you just spewed, you still haven't answered the question ? So here it is again.

What is it that you're suggesting exactly (say it buddy, be a Parizeau) by your following statement?;

Some polls in Cote-Saint-Luc were 2000 for No and 0 for yes.

 

[spin]

It's true that french voters did not vote 100% for yes but something near 75-80 % whereas ethnics voted about 5-10 %.

I hate to interject a little fact in your rhetoric Cosmo, but only 60% of French Canadians voted Yes. French Canadians represent 80% of Quebec's registered voters - "Money and the ethnic groups" couldn't have defeated Mr. Parizeau alone Cosmo, we needed help from 40% of francophones to do it.

 

[Cosmo]

Striplover,
I thought I 'd answer you question earlier by saying call me Parizeau all you want.
Anyway,here goes;The fact that these peaples massively voted no proves Parizeau's point-most non-french voters did'nt vote yes,hence they were one of the few factors that caused the yes camp to loose.
What's wrong about saying it?
What do you want to insinuate by asking me the question?
Does that make me racist?
The 2000 to none just proves that.I didn't invent those numbers.
As for the french votes wether it's 60% or 80%,it's still much more than the 95 to 5 % of non french.Again does that means these peoples are racist?
No.
So what's wrong with saying it?
Parizeau is no worse than many Trudeau,Dion,Pettigrew,Richler....
No my turn;
YOU haven't answer my question,
Why were more than 60 000 freshly arrived immigrants given the right to vote?

 

[zigezon]

I hate to interject a little fact in your rhetoric Cosmo, but only 60% of French Canadians voted Yes. French Canadians represent 80% of Quebec's registered voters - "Money and the ethnic groups" couldn't have defeated Mr. Parizeau alone Cosmo, we needed help from 40% of francophones to do it.

The referendum was won by 55 000 votes on a population of 4 671 000 votes.


In 1995, 25% of the new citizenship were given in October alone.
11400 of 43900 new Quebec citizens in October !!

The years 1993 to 1995 saw a jump of 87% in citizenship attributions..
The year 1996 saw a drop of 39% in the citizenship attributions.


In 1998, in a studied slice of 100 000 voters registered on the electoral list for the 1995 referendum, a great number were not registered with the RAMQ. After verifications, the DGEQ found that 56 000 out of the 100 000 did not have the right to vote. You think those people were French Canadians ??? Make me laugh!


Now, go back to school or accept the fact that 55 000 voters decided the result of the Referedum. Then, accept the fact that those 55 000 are probably illegetimate voters. Then, accept the other fact that a lot of employers scared their employees they would loose their job if the referendum was won (u know how are quebecers with their jobs). Then, accept also the fact that 90% of the MONEY power was on the NO side! You know how they are with the stability issue, they dont wanna loose cause they dont wanna loose their investment. Why do you think 3rd world country are soo having a hard time getting investment in! Finally, compute all those pretty much FACTS and come up with a decent conclusion that PARIZEAU was PROBABLY but not CERTAINLY .... RIGHT !

 

[shijak]

encore sur ce train?!?

Way to hijack a perfectly good thread, guys! can one of the mods split the last few posts onto another of countless other threads dealing with this same old TIRED subject...The actual topic started by General G. deserves a lot more than to be shanghaied down this petty road...

A Cosmo et tout les autres qui discutent ce sujet épuisé datant déja de plus de 10 ans: Bien que je n'y crois pas du tout personnellement au concept de la souveraineté, veuillez réflechir sur ceci:...Même si finalement la souveraineté puisse être acquise dans les temps prochains, le Quebec sera irrévoquablement transformé dans moins de 20 ans, lorsque la génération boomer sera pour la plupart éteinte. A moins de gains incroyables dans l'immigration, la population risque de se réduire d'au moins 30% et personne ne peut prédire les changements fondamentaux a venir.
Ceci dit, je ne tiens pas a me joindre aux arguments bouillonnant dans ce thread, j'ai déja trop donne en '95...

Now returning to a more deserving topic, the one dealing with black unemployment...There are many reasons for this problem, some mentioned previously such as tribalism, fear and ignorance on the part of some employers. Lack of education is a cross-the-board problem amongst all ethnicities, forcing many to move to friendlier climes (I have many black anglophone friends that moved to Ontario and western Canada).
the new generation of young Quebec blacks from Haitian /Dominican/etc. parents seem to be benefiting from integration into the general french-speaking populace in the last 15 years or so, resulting in their being more accepted overall in all aspects of life (it may take a few more years before the full impact is learned though...).
a more varied media image for blacks (especially the U.S.) could only help i feel, showing people of colour in roles other than the surly gangbanger so prevalent in music videos and movies these days. I wish in Quebec that we also have a Spike Lee, or a John Singleton to shake things up...

 

[Cosmo]

Shijack,

Please take note that I was not the one that brought the Parizeau/racism issue in this topic.
Je me faisait l'avocat du diable.
Certains semble attribuer touts les torts du pays et de la province au ''méchants'' séparatistes et je trouve ça aberrant,je pense qu'il y a deux cotés a une médaille.
Autant dans ce thred que dans les autres a caractères politiques.
Certains ici ont traités les souverainistes de stupides et de racistes et n'aportent qu'un coté de la médaille.
BTW,blacks have a hard time finding job almost everywhere,not only in quebec.