Montreal Escorts

US - Three Arrested for Operating High-End Brothel Network

transatlantic

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Oct 29, 2013
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Sex Prison USA

60 page Affidavit - https://www.justice.gov/d9/2023-11/usa_v._han_lee_et_al_-_complaint_affidavit_redacted.pdf

You guys have it easy compare to US.
  • "Photographers" verified thru TER or P411 along with traditional methods; this is standard in US.
  • Law enforcement identified/interview "photographers" thru surveillance, phone records...
  • Law enforcement "got" "photographers" to flip on the operation to further investigation.
  • Rotating roster of Asian women
  • 60 minutes 340USD (page 8 of Affidavit)
  • Shocking this place offer BB as an "upgrade" - Definitely zero concerns for the provider.
Historical snapshot of the websites listed on archive.org
 

envelopes

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Oct 7, 2019
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They have been going very hard at sex work in the US.

In the past 3 years, there are 4 big brothels/agencies I use who were shut down by the FBI and ended up in the news. And 3 local Asian spas got shut down too.

I'm sure I'm on an FBI list somewhere since all of those places have my real number.
 

Obvio-0bvio

"Bond. James Bond" Obvio007
Jan 3, 2023
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I did not have any other activities to engage in except for reading the article. The way in which they got caught was truly intriguing.

Investigation started by identifying multiple locations involved in the prostitution network, referred to as "Target Locations." These locations included residences in Cambridge, Massachusetts, and Torrance, California, as well as other apartments in Massachusetts and Virginia.

The next step was monitoring the two websites used by the co-conspirators to advertise their services. Law enforcement tracked the activities and advertisements on these websites, which offered appointments with Asian women in either greater Boston or eastern Virginia.

The websites had a verification process for first-time clients, requiring them to provide personal information, such as their names, email addresses, phone numbers, employers, and references. Once verified, clients could book appointments, and further communication about the appointments occurred through text message exchanges with telephone numbers associated with the websites.

Law enforcement interviewed approximately twenty sex buyers involved in the prostitution network. These buyers described arranging to meet at specific apartments, including some of the Target Locations, for the purpose of engaging in commercial sex. One buyer even mentioned receiving a text message with a "menu" of available options at the brothel.

Various methods of evidence collection were used in the investigation, including physical and video surveillance, public records, business records, financial records, and witness interviews. Law enforcement also obtained court-authorized cell-phone location information.

Through these investigative steps, law enforcement agencies were able to gather sufficient probable cause evidence to support the criminal complaint against the individuals involved in the interstate prostitution network.


Are several reasons why prostitution laws in the USA tend to be stricter than in Canada. Firstly, the cultural and historical factors play a significant role, as the United States has a long history of Puritanical values and a more conservative approach to issues related to sex and morality. This cultural background has influenced the perception and regulation of prostitution, leading to stricter laws.

Another factor is the federalism and legal jurisdiction in the United States. Prostitution laws are determined at both federal and state levels, resulting in a patchwork of regulations across different states. Some states have chosen to criminalize prostitution more heavily, while others have adopted a more lenient approach. In contrast, Canada has a more centralized legal system, allowing for nationwide legislation that is consistent across provinces.

Legal precedent acts as another reason for the stricter prostitution laws in the United States. The country has a significant legal history that treats prostitution as a criminal activity, with the Supreme Court ruling in 1917 (known as the Mann Act) and subsequent cases further reinforcing this stance. This legal precedent has made it more difficult for legal challenges to effectively decriminalize or regulate prostitution.

Moreover, the United States predominantly adopts an abolitionist approach to prostitution, viewing it as inherently exploitative and harmful. This approach emphasizes the criminalization of sex buyers, pimps, and traffickers, in addition to offering support and rehabilitation to individuals involved in prostitution. In Canada, there is a more varied approach that includes elements of decriminalization, regulation, and harm reduction.

Lastly, differences in public opinion and political climate contribute to the stricter prostitution laws in the United States. There is broader acceptance of sex work as a form of labor and a growing movement to decriminalize and protect the rights of sex workers in Canada. In contrast, the political climate in the United States is more contentious, making significant reforms to prostitution laws more challenging to achieve.
 
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cpp433

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Jul 2, 2007
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You need to read past the headlines here.

It was just a matter of time before this happened with this group.

The verification was not the problem. That is in most situations what keeps everyone safe, including additional safety for the ladies who require it in Canada.

The problem here was obvious. I didn’t use them but I have watched the ads and reviews for a while. This started in Los Angeles, spread (no pun intended) to Las Vegas, and then to the East Coast.

As noted above, bareback vaginal was openly available for a very small upcharge. Very little consent required from the ladies. A guy could choose to take the condom off and go bareback vaginal. No vaginal bareback after a full medical test within a week before, as a very few (but unwise) independents do it, but just bareback for anyone. The ladies often rotated around the cities and the reviews indicated that many of the ladies spoke limited English. Trafficking to the max of primarily Korean women on tourist and limited work visas.

We do a truly shitty job of self-regulating in the U.S. Merb wouldn’t just ban them and the reviewers, they might hunt them down and kill them, if that agency were Canadian. But all three U.S. let the reviews and marketing continue.

And of course our damn law enforcement and media do the “high-end” nonsense, even though they were anything but that. They weren’t representative of the U.S. scene.

What is safest in the U.S. are independents who screen working at a high price in cities where there is little or no high-level enforcement. New York City, parr’s of New Jersey, parts of Rhode Island, Philadelphia, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Miami are on that list. Plenty of other cities are, too. Chicago is to a much lesser extent, but complicated by the corruption. Neither Boston or D.C. are considered high on the “safety” list as far as law enforcement is concerned. In those areas, including Chicago, some longstanding agencies are safe, especially if the ladies don’t travel from state to state. Interstate travel potentially brings the Feds into play, so they can do their beloved asset seizures.

It is a shame we have to do stereotypes, but Asian women working for groups aren’t safe as far as law enforcement is concerned. And there aren’t that many independent Asians. Anyone, especially groups, offering bareback vaginal, can never be considered safe, but we should have all known that.
Thats all well and good, the basic point still stands, clients exposed themselves by giving personal info, nothing communicated can EVER be really erased, if the police decide for whatever reason, on a whim to start clamping down on the hobby, then by going to an incall you can be exposed if you happen to be there when they serve a warrant, the likelihood of them following around a car and going to each outcall stop and getting a warrant then serving it while your still in the act has an almost zero likelihood. Sure that place was asking for it, but places that arent also get hit, there is certain risks to what we do no matter what, but i choose to limit the risk as much as i can and i do so by following the 3 rules i stated above, what is or isnt in the article changes nothing about that
 
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EagerBeaver

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This is why I have been telling anyone who will listen for almost 10 years that Seeking Arrangement is the safest alternative in the USA. It's harder and more time consuming and not for the lazy and unchallenged, but also incredibly safe if one abides by basic and fundamental common sense rules, which I have only posted dozens of times in the SA thread.
 
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wiinston17

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Oct 14, 2014
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The websites had a verification process for first-time clients, requiring them to provide personal information, such as their names, email addresses, phone numbers, employers, and references. Once verified, clients could book appointments, and further communication about the appointments occurred through text message exchanges with telephone numbers associated with the websites.
This is why I don't go the indy route. As someone in the IT security, not knowing what happens to my data is stored or discarded gets my anxiety level over 9000.

There's just too much room for human error even if the SP is doing their best to handle my information.
 

CLOUD 500

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Jan 10, 2005
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They have been going very hard at sex work in the US.

In the past 3 years, there are 4 big brothels/agencies I use who were shut down by the FBI and ended up in the news. And 3 local Asian spas got shut down too.

I'm sure I'm on an FBI list somewhere since all of those places have my real number.
I never understood why the US is so against sex work. I still think the US Is the most hostile country on this planet for sex work yet they want the 2nd amendment. Does not seem in line with having freedom. Maybe someone has an idea why the US is so against sex work.
 

Fradi

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Apr 9, 2019
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This is why I don't go the indy route. As someone in the IT security, not knowing what happens to my data is stored or discarded gets my anxiety level over 9000.

There's just too much room for human error even if the SP is doing their best to handle my information.
How is going the agency route different.
You can give the exact same info to an agency as to an Indy it doesn’t have to be your real name and you can use a burner phone.
As long as you don’t give out personal information, government ID or photographs of yourself and use a burner phone it really doesn’t make any difference between using an Indy or agency. There are many Indy’s that only require a reference from another reputable SP. without a deposit or government ID.

They both store your information and you have no idea or recourse to do anything about it. All the assurances in the world from either don’t make any difference. It is basically up to you what you are comfortable with and how much trust you are willing to put into either an agency or a particular Indy.

I would not see an escort in the US, just too complicated and too many sting operations, only high end independents are relatively safe and they ask for way too much personal information than I would ever provide ( I understand it is a must to keep themselves safe from bad clients and LE) and are much more expensive than in MTL. Much better to stick to hobbying in Montreal and Europe in the countries I know are safe from LE. I live here and seeing an SP in Montreal is easy and relatively safe especially if you stick to Merb advertising Indies and agencies you can still find many gorgeous SP without divulging your personal information.
 
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EagerBeaver

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I never understood why the US is so against sex work. I still think the US Is the most hostile country on this planet for sex work yet they want the 2nd amendment. Does not seem in line with having freedom. Maybe someone has an idea why the US is so against sex work.
Cloud 500,

As I have said elsewhere, and I bring the perspective of someone with historical and legal training, you really need to understand United States history to answer this question but the answer is quite simple. The United States was started as a nation by persons who fled England due to religious persecution. The persecution was in many cases due to what one might call harsh, strict or severe interpretation of Christian theology by assorted splinter religious groups. For example the Puritans and Quakers. So guess who wrote the laws and constitutions? The leaders of these groups. Unfortunately, even when I started practicing law over 200 years later, many of these laws are and were still on the books. Some of the anti-prostitution statutes in the New England states are essentially unchanged from the 1700s texts authored by these religious zealots. In some cases they are comical to read.

Although New England, in particular, is no longer inhabited by a majority of Puritans, their laws, and the social and political tradition of interpreting and enforcing them, has lingered. For centuries.

We also have large swaths of land in the US south and Midwest known as the "Bible Belt." The politicians in these areas are beholden to religious groups and agendas.

So it's basically a function of the history of the United States and the influence on its legal and political traditions by some of these religious groups, several of whom actually founded the country. The legal, social and political traditions and agendas have unfortunately dictated the use of LE to enforce the said agendas.

Are you familiar with the Salem Witch Trials? These were a direct outgrowth of some of the same legal traditions. It's hard to believe they occurred in this country, but they did. I recommend all of you go to the Salem Witch Trial Museum in Salem, Mass. It's an eye opening experience. They stage plays with community actors speaking from actual trial transcripts. It will blow your mind away. It happened for the exact same reasons noted above.
 
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Fradi

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My bad, I meant those who require us to upload a gov. ID for screening purposes. Since I never met with an indy, a reference becomes a catch 22.
There are still some Indies that don’t even require a reference just a regular mobile number ( Which can be a burner phone with a real number but under any name you wish just like the SP who never use their real name) or a Merb handle. and after that you will have a reference.
With most reputable Indies or agencies in MtL your risks are very low even if they have your info but it never hurts to be careful.
 
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Charlie Smart

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Jun 12, 2015
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The investigation has been ongoing for over a year before the indictment. When I hear things like this, I am glad that I have always thought with the big head and not succumbed to providing personal details to independents or agencies...just too risky! Though the argument can be made that the investigators are focused on the main players, there is serious risk that the list of clients can be leaked...and that list has all kinds of personal details.
 

FrenchSecrets

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Oct 25, 2023
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There are still some Indies that don’t even require a reference just a regular mobile number ( Which can be a burner phone with a real number but under any name you wish just like the SP who never use their real name) or a Merb handle. and after that you will have a reference.
With most reputable Indies or agencies in MtL your risks are very low even if they have your info but it never hurts to be careful.
You’re aloud to call and have someone come over it’s no one’s business !
 
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Fradi

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You’re aloud to call and have someone come over it’s no one’s business !
I really don’t know what you are getting at with this.
Of course you are allowed to call and have someone come over.
If LE are interested in getting you , how stupid do you think they are when you contact an SP with a full menu of sexual activities that you are inviting her to play chess or just have dinner.
How difficult do you think it would be for them to tap into your phone email, text messages social media to get enough information on you.
You actually think most Johns are that smart and so careful that they never use any kind of incriminating information when communicating with an SP or agency.
The reality is most times they are not interested in nabbing an ordinary citizen but more an organization, a high profile celebrity or well known figure to make a name for themselves and to show the public they are doing something of value. Grabbing Joe blow for getting a blow job is not what they are usually after.
In most major cities in Canada LE has actually stated that it is not a priority for them to enforce bill 36 on consenting adults.
This however could change at anytime with a change in public opinion, government federal or provincial. or even a local major so again it never hurts to be careful.
 

Fradi

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Apr 9, 2019
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How someone goes from that to Don’t book an independent escort who screens is bewildering to me.
I agree with all that you say it is not LE that would concern me, I am not as comfortable as you with giving out my real information to someone I have never met before and won’t.
.It is like with insurance you only find out if you are truly insured once you make a claim.
I don’t want to be the exception when it comes to you are usually safe in giving your real name and government ID.
We are not used to that here in Montreal like you are in the US.
For now we can still find many gorgeous young ladies without having to resort to that kind of screening, unfortunately it is moving more towards what is happening in the US with more and more SP demanding more stringent screening and deposits. I understand it from their point of view and can’t really blame them, but it doesn’t mean I like it or will comply to it.
Luckily I have my ATF and regulars who know me and these things don’t come up and for now I will pass on any new SP I would want to see if she doesn’t accept a reference from another Indy or Merb handle.
 

CLOUD 500

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Jan 10, 2005
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Cloud 500,

As I have said elsewhere, and I bring the perspective of someone with historical and legal training, you really need to understand United States history to answer this question but the answer is quite simple. The United States was started as a nation by persons who fled England due to religious persecution. The persecution was in many cases due to what one might call harsh, strict or severe interpretation of Christian theology by assorted splinter religious groups. For example the Puritans and Quakers. So guess who wrote the laws and constitutions? The leaders of these groups. Unfortunately, even when I started practicing law over 200 years later, many of these laws are and were still on the books. Some of the anti-prostitution statutes in the New England states are essentially unchanged from the 1700s texts authored by these religious zealots. In some cases they are comical to read.

Although New England, in particular, is no longer inhabited by a majority of Puritans, their laws, and the social and political tradition of interpreting and enforcing them, has lingered. For centuries.

We also have large swaths of land in the US south and Midwest known as the "Bible Belt." The politicians in these areas are beholden to religious groups and agendas.

So it's basically a function of the history of the United States and the influence on its legal and political traditions by some of these religious groups, several of whom actually founded the country. The legal, social and political traditions and agendas have unfortunately dictated the use of LE to enforce the said agendas.

Are you familiar with the Salem Witch Trials? These were a direct outgrowth of some of the same legal traditions. It's hard to believe they occurred in this country, but they did. I recommend all of you go to the Salem Witch Trial Museum in Salem, Mass. It's an eye opening experience. They stage plays with community actors speaking from actual trial transcripts. It will blow your mind away. It happened for the exact same reasons noted above.
Thanks for explaining it to me. So it seems there are still many prudes in the US? As for England that you mentioned, these days England's prostitution laws are exactly the same to what Canada had before Bill C-36. Prostitution is legal in England, only the activities surrounding it are illegal.
 

EagerBeaver

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Thanks for explaining it to me. So it seems there are still many prudes in the US?
I think the better way to explain it is that we have found it difficult to break free of well-established and centuries long prudish legal and political traditions that are imbued in governmental systems in the United States at both the federal and state levels. However, parts of the USA, particularly the bible belt areas, are populated by bible thumpers who expect their politicians to thump some bible. As has already been discussed ad nauseum by Patron and others, SWs/Asian MPs are low hanging fruit for local LE in places like Florida. These people do not have the resources to fight back, so if you can pick fights that you will win, you will score political points with those whose political agendas you serve. For federal LE, the Asian MP model is the ultimate low hanging fruit because they all operate interstate, have off the boat employees who can be easily intimidated with deportation, and don't have the legal resources or support mechanisms to fight back in any kind of meaningful way. Really, it is no different than the schoolyard bully who picks fights with smaller and weaker kids until someone comes along and unexpectedly punches him in the face. Such a punch was thrown and landed in Florida some years ago by operators of a board similar to this one. I am sure Patron knows the case I am talking about.
 
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