Very little mention of the Hong Kong protests

[neverbored]

I know there are quite a few of you from or with Chinese backgrounds. The media apparently shows little coverage of how big this really is and I'm very curious to read about your opnions on this topic.

Here's a a recent reddit post aggregating Western companies complying to gag requests from Beijing its quite unsettling: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dge9ib/i_posted_lists_of_china_bootlickers_atrocities_in/
An uncropped photo of Tank Man which I had never seen before as a reminder of what will most likely happen again : https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/bvvfin/the_uncropped_tank_man_photograph_from_tiananmen/

The more I've been reading the more I'm shocked as to how much of a hold China has on the West. Thoughts?

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

The media does not show the murders in Africa, no one really cares. Now when a child falls into a gorilla pen and someone shoots the gorilla all hell breaks loose.

 

[EagerBeaver]

What happened to Tank Man, anyway?

 

[neverbored]

The media does not show the murders in Africa, no one really cares. Now when a child falls into a gorilla pen and someone shoots the gorilla all hell breaks loose.

I get what you're saying. But there's quite a difference between choosing not to cover something VS something not being allowed to be covered.
The Chinese have gotten such a stronghold within corporate America that they can control the information as they seem fit. Its crazy

 

[neverbored]

What happened to Tank Man, anyway?

Not much is known about Tank Man or the tank driver who refused to run him over (mind you this was taken after the massacre when the tanks were leaving). I'm going to guess they both dissapeard in some camp.

Interesting Ted talk from a survivor: https://youtu.be/xgi-jJfuEJM
Q. and A.: Chen Guang on the Soldiers Who Retook Tiananmen Square https://sinosphere.blogs.nytimes.co...-on-the-soldiers-who-retook-tiananmen-square/
100 pages of photos on GettyImages (Warning some do depict death) https://www.gettyimages.co.jp/写真/tiananmen-square?mediatype=photography&phrase=tiananmen

 

[CaptRenault]

I have been following the protests in Hong Kong and rooting for the protesters. It's good to see young people somewhere in the world who understand the value of freedom and are willing to put their personal welfare on the line to fight for it.

I have visited Hong Kong twice and I love the city. I described my last visit to HK in the long-term arrangements thread.

It's hard to say what will happen as a result of these protests. The protesters have won round 1 by getting the government to withdraw the proposed new law that would have allowed extradition to the mainland of those HK citizens accused by mainland law enforcement. I understand why HK citizens are concerned about such a seemingly routine law. They know that "crime," in the eyes of mainland authorities, can include many offenses beyond ordinary criminal acts, such as criticizing the government.

People seem to be taking more of an interest in the situation since the NBA got sucked into the political situation after the Rockets' GM tweeted a message of support for the protesters. The initial NBA response was weak, but NBA commissioner Silver eventually issued a fairly good message in support of free speech.

I'm not optimistic about the future of Hong Kong over the long term (20 years out). Even if the protesters win a few concessions, I think HK will gradually, over a period of years, become more and more like other Chinese cities.

I would still recommend HK as a city well worth visiting. When I was there in 2016, it still felt like a thriving, business-friendly and tolerant city. For the visitor, there is very little sense that a communist country exercises the ultimate authority there. However, it's obviously not a great place to visit right now. But once things settle down, I think it will still be a fascinating place to visit. If you are headed to Southeast Asia, then it's worth planning a stopover in HK for a few days.

 

[IamNY]

This got almost zero coverage here in the states until the NBA brought it to the front page.

 

[Bred Sob]

I would still recommend HK as a city well worth visiting ... However, it's obviously not a great place to visit right now.

I have been to Hong Kong once (long ago, before the handover) and I liked the city very much. Curiously, some people are saying that now is not such a bad time for a visit. Airfares and hotel prices are way down, and the sightseeing is (apparently) not affected.

https://www.cntraveler.com/story/heres-what-the-hong-kong-protests-mean-for-travelers

I am afraid I am not brave enough.

 

[EagerBeaver]

60 Minutes lead story tonighto is the Hong Kong protests.

This thread should be in the political forum, not in the Lounge.

 

[Albacor]

The rioters are becoming terrorists now:
[h=1]HongKong police officer hospitalized after neck cut by rioter [/h]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPWbc9n9ALU
HONG KONG — A homemade, remote-controlled bomb intended to “kill or to harm” riot control officers was detonated
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...083dec-ee69-11e9-bb7e-d2026ee0c199_story.html

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

^^^^^ Perhaps some ANTIFA members joined.

 

[neverbored]

HONG KONG — A homemade, remote-controlled bomb intended to “kill or to harm” riot control officers was detonated

Woudln't surprise me if this was planted by police in order to escalate. Imagine being in front of millions of protesters, police officers are not equipped for this... they will fail.
Pretty sure they want to bring in the army... its just a question of time until a full massacre occurs.

Sad times we live in.

 

[neverbored]

China Killing Prisoners To Harvest Organs For Transplant: Cover-Up (Forbes)

China is a dystopian nightmare

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdof...-to-harvest-organs-for-transplant-new-report/

 

[Albacor]

Hahaha...You guys are so naive ! you believe what you hear and what you saw on your radio and TV ? information on media is free! anyone can say or report anything, it's free of speech ! and it doesn't cost them anything nor any money to spread the news ! rather use your own judgement to distinguish what is true and what is false!
Just like a report saying a bomb exploded in Syria killing a 10 of children and wounded a dozen more, it's from the dictator's regime. Who witness this? did you see it in your own eyes? NO, did I saw it ? NO ! so who says it's real or not ? nobody knows... When it come to killing children people are so sensitive, and condemn it right away! They are manipulating your feelings ! :nono: same applies to all the news. Some are real, some are fake! it's up to you to believe it or not ?

 

[neverbored]

Hahaha...You guys are so naive ! you believe what you hear and what you saw on your radio and TV ? information on media is free! anyone can say or report anything, it's free of speech ! and it doesn't cost them anything nor any money to spread the news ! rather use your own judgement to distinguish what is true and what is false!

Well.. wouldn't say "Naive". Organ harvesting appears to be something the Chinese goverment is having a very hard time successfully covering up. You can take a look at the wiki pages (scroll down to the bottom of the page and you will have multiple references if you're you need) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China

I'm not one to repost a tidbit from the "Journal de Montréal" without researching as much as possible. But the qty of documentation is quite overwhelming. I mean, sure, mainstream media has been known to amplify what is being reported. But when you look at all the media that is being broadcasted by the protesters trying to counter Beijing's pressures, sure some may be "fake". But you can't fake that number of people fighting for their lives... they are witnessing it first hand and they deserve the visibility imho.

“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.”
― Soren Kierkegaard

 

[bignasty]

Wake up Albacor. The Chinese Government is using their political weight and money to attempt to put a muzzle on free speech right here in the U.S. Did you not read about the NBA/Hong Kong scandal.
Just a few years ago the Chinese Government went total safe space mode when a Univ. of Maryland student of Chinese descent gave a commencement speech criticizing the lack of clean air in China. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...eech-at-a-u-s-college-then-came-the-backlash/

 

[GMA]

Unfortunately, the protestors don't have a convincing path to victory, which is maintaining a semi-autonomous democracy within the largest dictatorship in the world. They have no leverage.
The government continues to import large numbers of Mandarin speaking workers every year, who will eventually far outnumber the Cantonese speaking population that made Hong Kong what it has been.
The government now mandates that the elementary schools be taught in Mandarin, not Cantonese. This next generation of children will not grow up to be democracy protestors.
The student protestors realize that their generation is the last chance to stop the assimilation of their Cantonese culture and political freedoms, so they are making a futile statement for history. They are heroes to their cause in that they are risking future persecution by the government, as their identities will be known.

 

[CaptRenault]

The Chinese Communist Party has taken advantage of the Wuhan Virus crisis that it covered up to crack down on its opponents in Hong Kong. From the Wall Street Journal:

The world is learning some unpleasant truths about China’s Communist Party amid the Covid-19 pandemic, and the latest example comes from Hong Kong. Police on Saturday arrested more than a dozen of the city’s most prominent proponents of democracy on what has all the earmarks of orders from Beijing.

The arrested include Martin Lee, 81, a main author of Hong Kong’s Basic Law who is considered the father of Hong Kong’s democracy movement; 71-year-old media tycoon and our contributor Jimmy Lai; at least eight former opposition lawmakers; and at least four pro-democracy activists. Police say they ran afoul of the law when they organized and participated in protests last year.

The charges carry heavy penalties, including possible prison time, but at least it would be served in Hong Kong. Last year’s protests erupted when Chief Executive Carrie Lam tried to ram through legislation that would have allowed Beijing to extradite anyone in Hong Kong to the mainland, effectively destroying the city’s legal autonomy. Millions took to the street in peaceful protest and defeated the bill. Had they failed, those arrested this weekend would likely have been whisked off to mainland courts and shadowy prisons.

The mass protests died down with the outbreak of the coronavirus, but Beijing now wants to make sure they never resume. Saturday’s arrests targeted well-known political figures for protests that happened months ago, and the underlying message is that anyone who has marched against the government is vulnerable to arrest and prosecution at any time.

Article 22 of Hong Kong’s Basic Law states that the Chinese government will not interfere in Hong Kong’s administration of its own affairs. But after pro-democracy lawmaker Dennis Kwok and his allies delayed pro-Beijing legislative initiatives in recent weeks, China’s Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office suggested they may “have violated their oath, which could mean misconduct in public office.”

On Friday the government asserted that the Liaison Office and Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office have broad power to supervise and comment on Hong Kong’s political operations without violating Article 22. That is a radical reinterpretation of the Basic Law. Chinese officials are also calling for Hong Kong to pass national security laws that would criminalize dissent.
Beijing may figure it can get away with this at little cost as the world copes with the pandemic. But Hong Kongers have shown they won’t go down without a fight, and Beijing’s moves this month risk reigniting protests. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Attorney General William Barr condemned the arrests in statements, as did Joe Biden in a tweet. So should Donald Trump.

The Communist Party’s coronavirus deception is turning Western opinion against China, and the Hong Kong roundup underscores that the regime is a threat to free people.
​

 

[CaptRenault]

It's sad to see what is happening right now to Hong Kong. The communist thugs of Red China are using the cover of a global pandemic that they caused and covered up to crack down even further on Hong Kong and its freedom loving people.

It's time for western countries and their allies to completely reevaluate their relationship with China. We should gradually move our supply chains out of the country, ban Chinese companies from US equity markets, severely limit the number of Chinese students studying at western universities and crack down even harder on companies like Huawei.

The End of Hong Kong
China has moved to take away the city’s autonomy, one of several aggressive actions by Beijing across the region.
TIMOTHY MCLAUGHLIN MAY 22, 2020 the atlantic.com

Over the course of April and throughout May, while much of the world’s attention was trained on the coronavirus’s spiraling death toll, hardly a day passed in Hong Kong without news of arrested activists, scuffles among lawmakers, or bombastic proclamations from mainland officials. Long-standing norms were done away with at dizzying speed.


In that time, Beijing was undertaking aggressive actions across Asia. A Chinese ship rammed a Vietnamese vessel in the contested waters of the South China Sea, sinking it. Off the coast of Malaysia, in the country’s exclusive economic zone, a Chinese research vessel, accompanied by coast-guard and fishing ships—likely part of China’s maritime militia, civilian vessels marshaled by Beijing in times of need—began survey work near a Malaysian oil rig. The standoff that followed drew warships from the United States and Australia, as well as China. Beijing then declared that it had created two administrative units on islands in the South China Sea that are also claimed by Vietnam. Chinese officials have reacted, too, with predictable rage to Taiwan, whose handling of the pandemic has won plaudits and begun a push for more international recognition.

The moves were capped this week when China’s National People’s Congress announced that it would force wide-ranging national-security laws on Hong Kong in response to last year’s prodemocracy protests. In doing so, Beijing circumvented the city’s autonomous legislative process and began dismantling the “one country, two systems” framework under which Hong Kong is governed, setting up what will likely be a fundamental shift in the territory’s freedoms, its laws, and how it is recognized internationally...

 

[Valcazar]

Capt.
The move to crush HK is sad to see, I agree.