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What is your definition of "Indy"?

Sol Tee Nutz

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Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
Just my opinion...An indy is someone who does not work for an agency or a pimp, it should not matter if she has someone taking her bookings as some are busy with day jobs or students or busy SPing.
The indy I see in an indy all the way and only works for herself, she is a student and has no time for making appointments. The booker knows all that needs to be known. saying that you like to hear someones voice makes no sense as people are not what they sound like. Imagine those call centers where some 250 lb 40 yr old says ooooh baby you make me hot over the phone.... Do not say it does not happen. My ex has a phone voice that is sweeter than hell but it is not her. Telemarketers sound great over the phone but complete scammers and the list goes on.
Your first meeting lets you know what she is like nothing else.
NOTE: The indy I am seeing has a female booker and makes it known she is not the SP.
Again, just my opinion. Not saying it is right, oh what the fuck, yes it is right :)
Enjoy the weekend.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
i ask him once if he ever actualy ask the lady and he mension for my paricular question, he actualy never asks.

The booker should know what the lady does not like and should not need to ask, I have asked Mike & James the same question and got a no problem reply and always there was no problem. A couple of years ago I asked an agency to tell the SP I wanted to go for a bite before the session ( great place near the motel I was at and wanted company ), when the SP arrived I asked if she was hungry and she said no, and when I mentioned I asked the booker to tell her about the dinner he said no problem....... The SP heard nothing about it. Turns out she was hungry but did not want to mention it, the evening was great, changed from a 3 hr to a 4 hr event.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Look behind you.
[Merlot quote]Agents like Martin of Asservissante, Jessie of MSC, Martin of Xxxtase have frequently offered discounts as a matter of distinguishing one agency over another to attract clients. Meeting the ladies face to face does not change the dynamics of good business regarding discounts. So knowing someone discussed this does not show anything wrong was done. If you are going to suggest something improper was done you should explain the difference and be ready to offer some kind of solid reference for it, not just say so. The references I made in the first paragraph are well known and have been posted by insiders many times. Where's your proof?

Cheers,

Merlot[/QUOTE]

The rest is a moot point.
You have been around long enough to know that a person does not ask for a discount. A discount is offered not asked for.
As EB puts it, doing this is being a cheap ass.
 

BookerL

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This thread isn't about Discount !
If you want Discount talk to a "Superstar Poster "https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?126986-No-negotiation-tolerated-in-this-business/page3&highlight=No+negociations+tolerated.
The one described in post 42 ,mind you he wasn't dealing with a "Indy":lol:
Its about being "independant " or not ?
A diluted definition seems to be more pleasing then a strict one ?




Cheers




Booker
 

Jaxan

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Jan 12, 2012
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6 pages worth of posts discussing the definition of an Indy...

I don't see a reason why everything has to be so defined and categorized. Nothing in life is black and white, only shades of grey. And there is no 1 singular definition, and everything is open to interpretation by each individual. You are free to make decisions based on the information provided. As long as the Indy (service provider) clearly states how they operate and that they are enlisting the help/services of another individual for correspondence/scheduling or any other assistance. It's your choice as to wether this appeals to you or not. If not, move on, it's really that simple.

Enjoy yourselves, enjoy the scene, the weather, Montreal and it's lovely ladies. Life is too short to put everything into categories.
 

rollingstone

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Sep 4, 2006
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It seems the main issue is whether or not using an assistant or booker or driver invalidates the 'indy' tag. I won't lie, corresponding with the provider directly has a lot of appeal with me, and I have in the past extended bookings I made before I even met her because we 'clicked' so well over e-mail. And in none of those instances was I disappointed. I have never asked an SP for a discount or what her 'menu' or 'services' are either. Either she has been reviewed and I built a few expectations, or she hasn't been reviewed and I am TOFTT, either way asking about it is pointless to me. In fact, I have been doing this long enough that having a few unknown variables is part of the thrill.I am however more open to discussing my major likes/dislikes (very general stuff) with the lady directly than with a third party. I have never spoken to an Indy on the Phone or SMS unless it is in reference to an imminent meeting (running late, last minute confirmation of room number...etc).

If I am dealing with an assistant/booker then my correspondence would be the same as with an agency operator, limited to the bare facts such as the hotel I am staying at, room number, and desired time. I appreciate Indies that are open about the fact they use an assistant, but it still rubs me the wrong way when the assistant's e-mail is named after the provider (so if the provider is "Trixie" and the booker is "Adam", the booker's e-mail should be "Adam@gmail" instead of "Trixie@gmail"). Just feels weird.
 

Sol Tee Nutz

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Apr 29, 2012
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Look behind you.
:confused:



Oh puleeeez, don't give me a name with ZERO value.

:nono:

Merlot

Did not mean you as I did not assume that you did any price haggling with the ladies.
Just towards your comment.
 

wolfie7

Bemused...
Nov 12, 2005
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First off, this has got to be one of the dumbest, most inane threads on MERB. It's clearly targeted towards a few specific SPs. Just let it go...

Escort terms, definitions and abbreviations in escort ads
http://skipthegames.com/articles/ab...escort-sex-definitions-escort-abbreviations#I

independent, indie
An ASP who works on her own, without an agency affiliation. The ASP manages her own calls, bookings, advertising and finances.

Booker

Second, that definition is crap. There are plenty of indies in the US who employ a secretary, and you never talk to the SP directly. There used to be, may still be, a number of well known secretaries who serviced the Boston area, who managed the schedules of multiple indies. Same with LA, where I talk directly to secretaries well known to me, whose indy SP clients come and go. Maybe 'indy' in Canada means you get to talk to them directly, but that's not always the case in the US and Europe. In the end, whoever makes the booking process smoothest, if the SP has that skill set, good for her; otherwise, I'm more than happy to talk to her booker / secretary / 'friend'. Indy just means the SP is her own boss. That's it.
 

rollingstone

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Sep 4, 2006
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Second, that definition is full of crap. There are plenty of indies in the US who employ a secretary, and you never talk to the SP directly. There used to be, may still be, a number of well known secretaries who serviced the Boston area, who managed the schedules of multiple indies. Same with LA, where I talk directly to secretaries well known to me, whose indy SP clients come and go. Maybe indy in Canada means you get to talk to them directly, but that's not the case ROW. In the end, whoever makes the booking process smoothest, if the SP has that skill set, good for her; otherwise, I'm more than happy to talk to her booker / secretary / 'friend'.

I would only point out that in the US there is a legal dimension to this. I don't know the full details, but from what I understood having an assistant/booker/whatever in a different state from the provider is some sort of LE countermeasure. I had heard this specifically in reference to the Boston area where I had indulged a few times. I know a few indies in Montreal that use an assistant when touring the US presumably for the same reason.
 

protagoras

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First off, this has got to be one of the dumbest, most inane threads on MERB. It's clearly targeted towards a few specific SPs. Just let it go...



Maybe indy in Canada means you get to talk to them directly, but that's not the case ROW.'.

Respectfully,that's not true to the fact, sir.

As I wrote a couple of days ago: in other parts of the world indies do everything by themselves: even changing the sheets, replenishing the fridge with beers and wine, buying liquid soap, and obviously answering the phone. I have over 30 years of experience in South America and indies do everything by themselves (but the pictures on their site).

The reason is simple: with a first hand contact (or a first "ear contact" if I can coin this neologism) with a putative customer, they can already feel if the guy on the otherend of the phone is safe or not. SP are very clever (or kind of street-wise) and they have the ability - maybe inutitively - to separate the wheat from the chaff (not the shaft!).

Just my two cents. Indies or not I don't care. I'm a pragmatic man: what is important is to set an appointment with a SP. Either ways are good.

C'est assez crisss
 

BookerL

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Apr 29, 2014
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6 pages worth of posts discussing the definition of an Indy...

I don't see a reason why everything has to be so defined and categorized.

I concur kind of impressive!

So defined and categorized?
If all the words that are used would have a different definition,
How would we understand each other?:confused:

A guessing game might be fun?:lol:



Cheers


Booker
 

daydreamer41

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Feb 9, 2004
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Whether an Indy has a booker or not is immaterial.

An Independent Contractor is her own boss. She makes the decisions of when to work, who to see, and how much her fee is. End of Story.
 

wolfie7

Bemused...
Nov 12, 2005
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@protagoras, point taken, I stand corrected. And I've corrected my post. I'm not as familiar with LatAm, so I was thinking Europe and Asia when I was saying ROW. Regardless, my point was not that an indy always has a secretary or always answers communications herself, the point was only that should not be the determining factor of whether or not an SP is 'indy.' Indies can go both ways, and it doesn't matter. If the SP is her own and only boss, then she is an indy.

Anyways, done, you'll hear no more from me on this thread. :)
 

Phil_W

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May 10, 2015
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Putting an end to the "Real Indy" issue.

Une version française suivra.

Following the answer I gave in the thread https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?132830-Jezabelle-legend to members who had questions about Jezabelle and its independent status, it was brought to my attention that the independent status of SP’s who chose to hire a personal assistant was again questioned as did certain interventions of this thread.

I thought the topic of this thread, which was in my opinion tendentious, biased, unjustified, pointless and unfairly inflammatory (which could have been avoided if the thread had been entitled instead "Do you prefer communicating directly with an Indy?"), had been settled and that people had understood the true differences between the independent and SP’s working within an agency. This does not seem to be the case for some people at least, and that is the reason why I am speaking now to close the discussion for good with anyone who would still experience confusion about it.

The matter at hand in this thread, essentially, is whether an SP who hired a personal assistant is still an independent?

Before addressing this subject, let us get another one out of the picture. I can understand that one can prefer communicating directly with an independent SP rather than through a third party, and many here have expressed their preference or their indifference about it. This is strictly a personal choice that I respect entirely. Let’s eliminate this argument that no one is contradicting: this is not what is wrong with some "opinions" expressed in this thread.

First I will try to dispel, I hope once and for all, the misguided perception that some members seem to have concerning the differences among SP’s working for an agency versus those who exercise this profession independently.

The following are, in my experience in this industry, the main distinguishing points between Independent and agency SP’s.

On one hand, SP’s working within an agency:
1- Are hired by the agency and their employment can be terminated at the sole discretion of the agency;
2- Must usually comply with the schedules of the agency and to workplaces, the "marketing" used for them in the agency’s advertising and sometimes even comply with the service standards of the agency;
3- Do not decide (mostly) on their pricing.

On the other hand, independent SP’s:
1- Can decide, at their sole and absolute discretion, to hire employees and delegate tasks they prefer not to perform themselves (i.e. drivers for their safety, photographers, personal assistants to manage their communications and posting of their ads, web site administrators or designers, etc.). Independent SP’s have the power to terminate the employment of such employees;
2- Choose their schedule and their workplace, the design and the content of their advertising and they decide the nature and extent of the services they offer;
3- Determine the pricing they demand for their services.

I challenge anyone to contradict in a rational way these fundamental differences (which I admit are not necessarily exhaustive).

As for me personally, I'm a personal assistant whose services have been retained by two independent SP’s. That does not make me (or us) an "agency" because none of the realities described above for an SP working within an agency apply in the exercise of my duties with Gabrielle Garnier and Jezabelle.

A comment was made in this thread that I published my two employers’ advertising one after the other. I do not how that would make a difference if I published their ads with a larger gap than 5 minutes. Would a one-hour gap be enough to not be considered an "agency"? Two hours? I'm sorry, but that's honestly laughable to even raise this irrelevant argument. My work does not consist in trying to "hide" the fact that we are operating an agency or not. Because we simply are not an agency. Moreover, we have never tried to hide our collaboration.

I have trouble understanding the apparent fixation that some seem to have in questioning the independent status of certain SP’s that chose to hire a personal assistant, even more so if they had the misfortune to hire the same individual, or to associate them with an "agency". Do independent SP’s sharing website lose their independent status? So why draw this conclusion for independents with a common personal assistant? This apparent tendency to target certain independent SP’s and not others leads me to questions the true motivations that might be hidden behind these comments.

As some of you might already know, Gabrielle, Jezabelle and I had worked together before. Our collaboration is strong and effective as it derives from professional standards and ethical values that we share and that we were able to fully discover in one another by working together. The fact that we knew each other or not has no correlation with the current nature of our business relationship.
Gabrielle and Jezabelle have no reason to hide the close cooperation that exists between them and they have also never attempted to do so in the past, just as many other Independent SP’s collaborate with other indies. For my part, I reiterate what I consider to be a privilege to work with two independent SP’s of this caliber and I have absolutely no reason either to hide this fact.

In conclusion, and I hope it will be possible for all to agree, the fact that I collaborate with an independent SP’s does not result in an "agency", in an SP to lose her independent status any more than should ten independent SP’s decide to retain my services would.

Any further discussion on this subject would be superfluous because honestly, I think I have taken enough of my time to explain in a professional and detail a situation that seems clear, at least that should be clear to a person without ulterior motives or whom do not display intellectually dishonesty.

Regards, Phil.
 

Phil_W

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Pour en finir avec le sujet "Real Indy"

Suite à la réponse que j’ai donnée dans le thread https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?132830-Jezabelle-legend à des membres qui avaient des interrogations au sujet de Jezabelle et de son statut d’indépendante, il a été porté à mon attention que le statut d’indépendante des travailleuses du sexe (« TDS ») qui choisissaient d’embaucher des collaborateurs était à nouveau remis en cause comme l’ont fait certaines interventions de ce thread.

Je croyais que le sujet de ce thread, à mon avis tendancieux, biaisé, injustifié et sommes toutes inutile et injustement inflammatoire (ce qui aurait pu être évité en nommant plutôt le thread « Do you prefer communicating directly with an Indy? »), avait été réglé et que les gens avaient compris les véritables différences entre les TDS indépendantes et celle qui travaillent au sein d’une agence. Cela ne semble pas être le cas pour certaines personnes à tout le moins et c’est la raison pourquoi j’interviens maintenant afin de clore la discussion pour de bon auprès de quiconque éprouverait encore de la confusion à ce sujet.

La discussion de ce thread, essentiellement, est à savoir si une indépendante ayant embauché un assistant personnel est encore une indépendante.

Avant d’adresser ce sujet, écartons le suivant : je peux comprendre que l’on puisse préférer communiquer directement avec une TDS plutôt que par l’entremise d’une tierce partie et plusieurs ont exprimé ici leur préférence ainsi que leur indifférence face à ce sujet. Il s’agit d’un choix personnel que je respecte entièrement. Éliminons cet argument que personne ne contredis. Toutefois, ce point ne constitue pas ce qui cloche avec certaines « opinions » exprimées dans ce thread.

Je vais d’abord tenter de dissiper, j’espère une fois pour toute, la perception floue et erronée que quelques membres semblent avoir des différences qui existent entre des TDS qui travaillent pour une agence versus celles qui exercent ce métier de manière indépendante.

Les points suivants constituent selon ma propre expérience dans ce domaine les principaux qui distinguent les deux statuts.

D’une part, les TDS qui travaillent au sein d’une agence :
1- Sont embauchées par l’agence et leur emploi peut être terminé à la seule discrétion de l’agence;
2- Doivent habituellement se conformer aux horaires de l’agence et aux lieux de travail, à la « mise en marché » qu’on fait d’elles dans les publicités de l’agence et parfois même se conformer aux standards de services de l’agence;
3- Ne décident pas (ou très peu) de leur tarification.

D’autre part, les TDS indépendantes :
1- Peuvent décider, et ce à leur seule et entière discrétion, d’embaucher ou pas des collaborateurs afin de déléguer des tâches qu’elles préfèrent ne pas accomplir elles-mêmes (i.e. chauffeurs pour leur sécurité, photographes, assistants personnels pour gérer les communications et la publication de leur annonces, administrateurs ou designers de site web, etc.). Les TDS indépendantes sont celles qui ont le pouvoir de mettre fin à l’emploi de ces collaborateurs;
2- Choisissent leur horaire et leur lieu de travail, la conception et le contenu de leur publicité et elles décident de la nature et l’étendue des services qu’elles offrent;
3- Déterminent la tarification qu’elles demandent pour leurs services.

Je mets au défi quiconque de contredire d’une manière rationnelle ces différences fondamentales (lesquelles ne sont pas nécessairement exhaustives).

En ce qui me concerne personnellement, je suis un assistant personnel dont les services ont été retenus par deux TDS Indépendantes. Cela ne fait pas de moi ou de nous trois une « agence » car aucunes des réalités décrites ci-dessus pour les TDS travaillant au sein d’une agence ne s’appliquent dans l’exercice de mes fonctions auprès de Gabrielle Garnier et de Jezabelle.

On a aussi fait dans ce thread le commentaire que je publiais les annonces de mes deux employeurs une à la suite de l’autre. Je ne vois pas non plus en quoi cela ferait une différence si je publiais leurs annonces respectives avec un écart plus important que de 5 minutes. Une heure d’écart serait-il suffisant pour ne pas être considéré comme étant une « agence »? Deux heures? Je regrette, mais c’est honnêtement risible de même soulever cet argument qui n’a aucune pertinence. Ma manière de travailler ne tente pas de « masquer » le fait qu’on soit une agence ou pas. Car nous ne sommes tout simplement pas une agence. De plus, nous n’avons jamais tenté de dissimuler notre collaboration.

J’ai du mal à comprendre l’apparente fixation que certains intervenants ont eu à remettre en doute le statut d’indépendante de certaines TDS qui auraient choisi d’embaucher un assistant personnel, d’autant plus si elles ont eu le malheur d’embaucher le même individu, ou encore de les associer à une « agence ». Est-ce que des TDS indépendantes qui partagent un site web commun perdent leur statut d’indépendantes? Alors pourquoi tirer cette conclusion pour des indépendantes qui ont un assistant personnel en commun? Cette apparente tendance à viser certaines TDS indépendantes et d’en épargner d’autres m’amène à me poser des questions sur les véritables motivations qui pourraient se cacher derrière ces commentaires.

Comme certains le savent déjà, Gabrielle, Jezabelle et moi avions déjà travaillé ensemble auparavant. Notre collaboration est solide et efficace car elle découle des standards de professionnalisme et des valeurs éthiques que nous partageons et qu’il nous a été possible de découvrir pleinement chez l’un l’autre en se côtoyant. Le fait qu’on se connaissait ou pas n’a aucune corrélation avec la nature actuelle de notre relation d’affaire.

Gabrielle et Jezabelle n’ont aucune raison de cacher l’étroite collaboration qui existe entre elles et elles n’ont d’ailleurs jamais tenté de le faire par le passé, toute comme le font plusieurs autres TDS indépendantes qui collaborent avec d’autres. Pour ma part, je réitère ce que je considère être un privilège de pouvoir collaborer avec deux TDS indépendantes d’un tel calibre et moi non plus n’ai aucune raison de cacher ce fait.

En conclusion, et j’espère qu’il vous sera tous possible d’y être d’accord, le fait que je collabore avec une TDS indépendante ne résulte pas en une « agence » ni en une TDS qui perdrait son statut d’indépendante, pas plus que si dix indépendantes décidaient de retenir mes services.

Les opinions que les gens peuvent avoir sur ce sujet ne m’importent pas du tout car cela ne change en rien le travail que j’accomplis. Cependant, si je me mets dans la position d'une TDS qui a travaillé fort pour établir une excellente réputation, parfois sur une période de plusieurs années, et qui est en mesure d'œuvrer dans cette industrie sur la base de son propre nom plutôt qu'à partir de la clientèle d'une agence, je peux comprendre qu'elle soit fière de son statut d’indépendante et qu’elle voudrait le défendre avec passion. J’espère que les gens pourraient le comprendre également et de respecter la défense de ce statut.

Toute discussion additionnelle sur ce sujet serait superflue car sincèrement, je crois avoir pris suffisamment de mon temps pour expliquer de manière professionnelle et détaillée une situation qui me semble claire, du moins qui devrait l’être auprès de ceux qui ne cachent pas de motifs ultérieurs ou qui ne fassent pas preuve de malhonnêteté intellectuelle.

Salutations, Phil.
 

UncleBob

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Nov 9, 2010
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Any further discussion on this subject would be superfluous

That's quite a snobbish attitude.

I thought the topic of this thread, which was in my opinion tendentious, biased, unjustified, pointless and unfairly inflammatory (which could have been avoided if the thread had been entitled instead "Do you prefer communicating directly with an Indy?")

I believe the actual title is perfect as it does not limit people opinions to Communications even if it is a big part for some...


I see two kind of Indies:
- Indy with a booker (Personal Assistant)
- Indy without a booker (They may do everyting or not, but at least they don't have a booker)

I understand the differences between a girl Indy with a Personal Assistant (booker) and a Girl with an Agency from the Girl point of view.
The differences between "Indy with Booker" and an Agency for a Lady, from a Client point of view?
I don't see much cause she is the same great girl that was at agency before.
And With Both we have a booker in between.
The booking process is quite similar...
The girl in this case is wearing a different hat but the experience is very similar than with agency.

So why would I prefer to book an Indy girl rather than an agency girl?
The only reason for me is because there is no intermediary.
That is why I will prefer Indy WITHOUT a booker. But this is me.

I prefer indies with no booker/driver mainly for discretion (Not many third party have my address etc),
and for the better possibility of "Non Rush" experience.
And also for better chance of chemistry. I like to develop friendship when possible... BFE side of me.
It makes the experience more personalised and intimate.
 

Phil_W

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May 10, 2015
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Hello UncleBob,

Any further discussion on this subject...
That's quite a snobbish attitude.

I am not restraining any freedom of speech, far for it. Only defending the independent status of these two ladies that seem to have been targeted for some reason in this thread and other communications I have received. Any other Hobbyist preferences are totally fair game.

And I see you agree with me with the most important point I wanted to get across: Indies with a personal assistant are just as much independent as those without one. The rest is a matter of preference as I already said.

A discussion could also be had on the pros and cons for an independent SP to have an personal assistant (which I will not start - my reason to post here is not to do a sales pitch, haha!). There might be some drawbacks for some hobbyists but also some advantages. Same thing for the SP. Again it is only a matter of personal choices.

The differences between "Indy with Booker" and an Agency for a Lady, from a Client point of view?

Yes I agree but it depends to some extent on the "booker" I guess...:smile:

Regards, Phil.
 

Phil_W

New Member
May 10, 2015
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I prefer indies with no booker/driver mainly for discretion (Not many third party have my address etc)

Also, FYI: For security concerns, most Indies without a personal assistant are likely to let someone (friend, room mate, etc.) know where they are (address, room or apartment and phone number of her client, at what time, etc.). At least that is what Stella recommends. I wonder where your personal information is safer?

Regards, Phil.
 
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