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What would a useful quote look like

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wasisname

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As the thread title states.
It seems just about any use of the quote feature is labeled useless, even the ones that are in compliance with the posted rules warning against excess quoting. I am at a lost to try to figure out what a useful quote would be. Not to be a bitch about it, just wondering. From the number of deleted quotes in at least one thread, I am not the only one confused.
 

RobinX

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There is a good answer to this question in the thread "Why so much moderation on MERB?" (https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthread.php?81008-Why-so-much-moderation-on-MERB) - specifically post #90 :
https://merb.cc/vbulletin/showthrea...ration-on-MERB&p=600438&viewfull=1#post600438

And I quote :smile:
Mod 11 said:
If somebody quotes parts of a long post to address points he want to reply to, that`s no problem.
There does seem to be some agreement on this point:
For me, this is the one and only good reason for quoting.
 

Siocnarf

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what a useful quote would be.
I use quotes when I comment on something very specific someone said. What I do is delete most of the text in the quote except the little bit of sentence I reply to (see example above). That way its as short and clear as possible. Otherwise I would have to write "concerning that bit about where so-and-so said that thing about the stuff".
 

ManApart

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Honestly, I think you just have to use common sense. I don't see why this whole thing has gotten to be such an issue. Just look at RobinX and Siocnarf's use of quotations above for a few examples.
 

Merlot

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Hello all,

I'm not sure why this needs to be rehashed again. I've been frustrated with this issue like anyone, especially when posts were summarily deleted as a solution for over-quoting. But the asnwers have been given as here below.

Hi Merlot

Useless quotes:
  1. quoting a post so close above, anybody with half a brain know what the person is talking about.
  2. quoting the last post the person made before yours, even if it's a few posts above your reply. See Octavian's post above for an example.
  3. quoting an entire post to stress-out a few points that could have been quoted separately, without the entire post being recopied. Quoting an entire post is almost 100% useless. Side note to to those who the shoe fits, quoting a 10 lines post only to say "I agree" IS TOTALLY USELESS IN 100% OF CASES.
  4. quoting a post when it would be far more effective, clean and proper to only start the reply by addressing the poster somebody is replying to.
  5. i think the drift is pretty clear...

Good quotes:
  1. quoting part of a post not close to the reply or when somebody want to address specific points.
  2. quoting a post because of a dispute, in case the original poster deletes it. In that case, a note to a moderator might be a good idea, in order to avoid a flame war.
As you see, the cons are higher than the pro.

Thanks
Simplest rules as I see it:

1. Don't quote if your post is the next one after the person or point you are addressing.

2. Quote only the main point of the post of the member or issue you want to address, not the entire text or unnecessary further embellishment beyond the main point.

3. If there are multiple points then quote only the key points.

Yes, I also tend to try to maintain the context by quoting larger segments, but that is usually still unnecessary in most cases.

Cheers,

Merlot
 

Mod 8

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ManApart just nailed it. RobinX and Siocnarf's examples could not be any clearer.

It is not difficult to quote only the part of a post that you are replying to and rarely necessary to quote any part of a post directly above yours. Quoting a very long post when you are addressing only one point in it, is pointless and useless. It will actually hinder your ability to get your point across due to the fact that someone will have to read the quoted post in detail to discover what you are replying to. Many if not most members who see your post will simply ignore it because of this.

One time when a quote can be very useful is when your reply to a post is on a different page than the post you are replying to. But even in such cases it is preferable to edit the quote down to a reasonable size. Do not forget that clicking on the arrow symbol to the right of the original poster of the quote will bring you directly to that particular post so that a member may read the entire post. When editing a quote, it is always a good idea to include (...) at the beginning and end of the included passage to indicate that the quote has been edited down. This way a person reading the post will understand that the quote comes from a longer post and they can click on the arrow to read it in it's entirety.

It all comes down to common sense and doing your best to make the board easier to read for everyone with as little clutter as possible. It makes it easier to get your own point across and will result in more members actually reading your post instead of just skipping over it.
 

HornyForEver

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The quote censorship that Mod11 has been practicing lately against some senior contributors to the Cleo's thread like CaptainPicard and Techman among others is just ridiculous. These members are the backbone of this thread as well as to other threads on MERB. Mod11's contribution to MERB since 2004 is close to null in terms of reviews, sorry it is actually null. This kind of compulsive censorship will do nothing but drive senior MERB contributors away.

I think that I use the quote button wisely, and it bothers me that others quote a long post, though I am perfectly able to live with that. The censorship practiced by Mod11 just emits negative signals to the MERB readership who mostly visit MERB for exchanging information about sex and having fun. If Mod11 fails to understand this, then he is definetely not the right person to moderate this board. We have been more indulgent with him during his first year telling ourselves that his moderation mistakes are just due to a lack of experience, though his behavior did not change a bit after 2 years plus of moderation. Fred Zed should really look for an alternative.

I am sorry for this harsh post, but I had to say it off.
 

ManApart

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I think you are misusing the word censorship. Isn't Mod 11 just deleting quotes that are unneeded and marking useless quote deleted where it used to be? That isn't censorship, it's just thread cleaning. Even a few times where he got frustrated and deleted the whole post, I can't call that censorship as his intentions were never to censor anything.

Maybe I'm getting technical here, but saying Mod 11 is censoring people is suggesting that he is intentionally suppressing people from expressing their opinions or speech. I don't think that is a fair description of what he is doing.
 

footman

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"The problem is God created man with a brain & a penis but only enough blood to operate one at a time.
 

HornyForEver

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Ok, maybe the word censorship was too strong as we always have the opportunity to freely express our opinions about the board and its mods. Though, the behavior of Mod11 is just annoying, actually more annoying than long quotes. He had always a very arrogant attitude towards new comers and it seems that his plan is now to drive senior contributors away. My point is that Mod11 is moderating MERB not out of reason, but out of compulsiveness.
 

Merlot

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The quote censorship that Mod11 has been practicing lately against some senior contributors to the Cleo's thread like CaptainPicard and Techman among others is just ridiculous.
Hello HFE,

You aren't talking about the same issue. Reducing repetitive clutter is not the same as controlling subjects and/or requiring standards of civility and truth or proof in posts, or issue types.

Still, I have to wonder if all of this stuff over controlling quotes/clutter is worth the trouble? Is the problem really so large that the feeling of over-moderation among some members and the resulting resentment is worthwhile overall? It seems to me that the effort made on controlling quotes adds a negative that is not all that necessary and the effort would be much more useful anywhere else.

really,

Merlot
 

wasisname

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Nov 12, 2007
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Merlot, you realize that your use of the quote above is against the rules set out as you are quoting the message just above you.
"quoting a post so close above, anybody with half a brain know what the person is talking about."

Common sense I think not. When a person who just listed the rules breaks them a few steps down. When you spend the night changing 20 posts to correct people, not so much.


Also if the rules for quoting have changed from cutting down quoted bits which is wise and intuitive to also include not allowing even a one line post if it refers to the same page, should that rule not be in the Merb rule section. Should such a change not also be in a sticky so that current users have a change to see it as is currently done with another rule change/clarification.
To me the second example, quoting a line or 2 to establish who you are responding to isn't useless excessive. Nor is it much different than addressing someone by name which does not always establish which post of the person you are referring to. Slapping down someone for quoting a line or two, calling their quote useless and telling them to address the person directly is a bit on the pedantic side, and honesty a bit insulting. Doubleplus so when there is nothing in the rules against it, the definition of useless is neither defined in the suitable section and is both not intuitive nor in standard use on any other forum I've been on including ones so strict that they require your real name [and have killed the membership base over small things]


It would seem better to me to just turn off the quoting function or at the very least actually update the rules and put a sticky with an informative thread title on the rule change as was done recently for another rule. I am willing to follow the rules, but I need to know about them and understand them.

To be honest I find a mod going off and enforcing rules that don't exist either on Merb or anywhere else is a bit disturbing and this from a fan of strong moderation. Much like a cop who breaks the laws.

These are the posted rules
"
ix) When quoting a very long post in any thread, please do your best to edit it down to a manageable length. Many times, quotes take up more space than the actual reply. Not only does this create board clutter, but you will lose the interest of the reader before he even gets to your reply. When quoting a post directly above your reply, it is sufficient to include only the first line or two as to indicate exactly who you are replying to. This is useful in cases when another post is made while you are composing your own and places your own post out of sequence. "

I've had my quoting style called useless and deleted when following the rules as have many others.
 

gugu

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Feb 12, 2009
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I really feel for you wasi. I think you are treated unjustly. You are a victim. You are discriminated against. And this is serious, man. If I were you, I would consider making a complaint at the UN. Man, we can't even understand your brilliant analysis because your quotes are being cut off by a dictator depriving the world of your useful insights. I urge the real hobbyists to raise, take the streets and act against that dictatorship. Hum... maybe you should start a new thread about it.
 

Merlot

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Merlot, you realize that your use of the quote above is against the rules set out as you are quoting the message just above you.
"quoting a post so close above, anybody with half a brain know what the person is talking about."

Common sense I think not. When a person who just listed the rules breaks them a few steps down. When you spend the night changing 20 posts to correct people, not so much.
d my quoting style called useless and deleted when following the rules as have many others.
Hello Mr. Wasisname,

I don't know why you didn't bother to read the quote since it was the focus of your point here. I quoted post #7 by HFE not #10. There is no excuse for missing that...unless it was intentional. Do try to avoid foolish mistakes.

I've had my quoting style called useless and deleted when following the rules as have many others.
We are all annoyed at post deletions, but attacking quotes you obviously didn't bother to read only helps make the case for Mod11 that quoting is often unnecessary, and anyone with half a brain can see that.

Regarding the rest of your comment, as I indicated before, I wonder if this issue isn't being over-done. Yeah, recording long quotes beyond and often far beyond what is necessary should be discouraged. But I have to agree that quoting a line or so about posts directly preceding yours should be allowed. Is it really necessary to be so strictly limiting? Is something so brief that much of an imposition or burden? Rules should encourage members to respond, not cause them to feel resentful.

Mod11, good move. Luv ya right back.

Cheers,

Merlot
 

Mod 11

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Anybody noticed the BOLD UNDERLINED names and/or BOLD UNDERLINED key words added to posts where I deleted quotes? If the poster would have used that simple format of addressing the person he talks to and/or repeating the topic instead of simply writing the word "it", all would have been clear for everybody, without screen pollution.

A reply like "yhea I agree buddy" is good without anything else if the person you agree with posted immediately above you. If the post is farther away, you do need a way to be clear but not a quote. Writing "JoeBlow, I agree she's hot" does the job without cluttering member's screens.
 

gugu

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Mod 11, could you please provide a quote by JoeBlow where he says she's hot. I did a search and did not find any such statement by JoeBlow. BTW, she's not hot at all. And her massage skills are basic to say the least.
 

wasisname

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Nov 12, 2007
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Gugu what are you on about. I mean really. You are reading way to much into what I said outrage wise and are being more than a little insulting. That being said the quote thing is small potatoes compared to mods going around enforcing rules that don't formally exist and actually going against items that are rule compliment. In the big scheme of things it is no big deal, it ain't my board, but it needs to be said and I don't much feel like being mocked for pointing out what to me is pretty obvious.

Hello Mr. Wasisname,

I don't know why you didn't bother to read the quote since it was the focus of your point here. I quoted post #7 by HFE not #10. There is no excuse for missing that...unless it was intentional. Do try to avoid foolish mistakes. ...

We are all annoyed at post deletions, but attacking quotes you obviously didn't bother to read only helps make the case for Mod11 that quoting is often unnecessary, and anyone with half a brain can see that.
1: There is an excuse for missing that. I skimmed his message, not the quote. I spend too much time on the internet as it is.
2: See point 1. Actually it more makes my point. I'll read a short quote before going to the post above or even 3 or 4 above to find out what you are talking about. Doubleplus so as I use the new posts feature which will drop me onto a thread at the first unread post.
 

Mod 11

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Washisname said:
... I skimmed his message, not the quote....
Yourself admits skimming the messages and not reading the quotes then, immediately below, you say the opposite.
Washisname said:
... I'll read a short quote before going to the post above or even 3 or 4 above to find out what you are talking about...
You're proving my point: most quotes are useless. When you can't remember a discussion you are taking part in, maybe the discussion wasn't worth quoting either.
If YOU are too busy reading a few post when you forget what people are talking about, then you can imagine people are too busy to read what you quote, since it's something THEY remember.

Sorry but that's the way it is.

Whoever has something else to add, please do so as soon as possible. There is no point in debating this topic further. Get your UN complaint forms ready, this thread will get closed soon if no new points are made.

Thanks
 
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