There are eight million stories in the naked city and all sorts of behaviours can be observed in the animal kingdom, of which we are a part. In the case of human beings especially the possible outcomes are many because our intellectual powers enable us to subject even our natural impulses to rational evaluation and to make decisions that are more or less informed. I have no doubt that some monogomous relationships work well, as yours did. On the other hand a great many do not with the result that people seek other arrangements for which they are better suited and which can be equally valid and successful in their own way.
Long term arrangements
- Thread starter r00t
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Well said Starry,
We are all searching for happiness, some find it one way others another and some unfortunately never do.
How can one possibly dispute someone else's life and relationship without even knowing them.
I took Rumple's comment to be a generalization. Generalizations are often valid as far as they go but by definition they are not universal truths. Actually I don't know whether his or your experience is the most relevant statistically though maybe some researchers have numbers that can speak to this, but I'm sure both are significant enuf for each to be empirically valid. Speaking for myself I'm predisposed to Rumple's view but I can readily acknowledge that a different life experience might have taken me in another direction.
Agreed. My point was simply that monogamy is unnatural. That does not mean that one cannot suppress ones natural instincts and, with the proper cultural programming, be completely happy in a monogamous relationship for many years. I have quite a few friends in such relationships.I took Rumple's comment to be a generalization. Generalizations are often valid as far as they go but by definition they are not universal truths.
I'm not sure I agree with that one Rumple. I see it as a more or less conscious cost-benefit analysis.
We all need affection, harmony, need to feel appreciated, need romance, need variety (including the sexual one!), to a certain degree. And we are all tolerant to certain kind of cost, either financial, monogamy, being single, lack of stability etc. Each one of us looks at the monogamous love relationship in terms of what it will bring us (e.g. emotional security, good sex, family) vs what it will cost us (e.g. lack of variety, lack of flexibility). We make that choice of monogamous relationship at one point in time when we believe the balance tips in favor of what it brings us tips compared to what we sacrifice. It's not a question of suppressing instincts, it is a very conscious choice (e.g. enduring the fights or the bad days of our wife in exchange of good sex!). Well, maybe social conditioning has something to do with our first relationship: it is what's expected of us. These social expectation is also why certain people with a gay orientation often suppress it and go out and even marry with the other sex. However this does not last long, as soon as we get a little experience with various relationships types, we make our choices more and more consciously.
Now before the girls reading this start to flame me, they make the same decision: they cope with the hockey games and night outs with the buddies in exchange of what they consider the relationship brings them.
However, relationships evolve, they're not static. And at some point the balance tips the other way. We see the costs as too high and we start breaking our vows or simply leaving. The question is not whether people are suppressing their instincts, it's often if they have the nerves to act when this happens. When people don't, relationships turn sour, very very sour....
I'm ready to bet that for you, at this point, the demands of a monogamous relationship exceeds what you're ready to invest in it (financially and otherwise) and you see your current arrangement as satisfying your needs. How long, if ever, before you change your mind? It will depend on how this relationship evolves. Nothing says that you will get bored by this at some point or that you won't. Arrangements occupy a space between occasional paid sex and permanent relationships. They fill that void for both partners when the cost-benefit equation is good for both sides.
Am I mumbling here or do I make sense?
We all need affection, harmony, need to feel appreciated, need romance, need variety (including the sexual one!), to a certain degree. And we are all tolerant to certain kind of cost, either financial, monogamy, being single, lack of stability etc. Each one of us looks at the monogamous love relationship in terms of what it will bring us (e.g. emotional security, good sex, family) vs what it will cost us (e.g. lack of variety, lack of flexibility). We make that choice of monogamous relationship at one point in time when we believe the balance tips in favor of what it brings us tips compared to what we sacrifice. It's not a question of suppressing instincts, it is a very conscious choice (e.g. enduring the fights or the bad days of our wife in exchange of good sex!). Well, maybe social conditioning has something to do with our first relationship: it is what's expected of us. These social expectation is also why certain people with a gay orientation often suppress it and go out and even marry with the other sex. However this does not last long, as soon as we get a little experience with various relationships types, we make our choices more and more consciously.
Now before the girls reading this start to flame me, they make the same decision: they cope with the hockey games and night outs with the buddies in exchange of what they consider the relationship brings them.
However, relationships evolve, they're not static. And at some point the balance tips the other way. We see the costs as too high and we start breaking our vows or simply leaving. The question is not whether people are suppressing their instincts, it's often if they have the nerves to act when this happens. When people don't, relationships turn sour, very very sour....
I'm ready to bet that for you, at this point, the demands of a monogamous relationship exceeds what you're ready to invest in it (financially and otherwise) and you see your current arrangement as satisfying your needs. How long, if ever, before you change your mind? It will depend on how this relationship evolves. Nothing says that you will get bored by this at some point or that you won't. Arrangements occupy a space between occasional paid sex and permanent relationships. They fill that void for both partners when the cost-benefit equation is good for both sides.
Am I mumbling here or do I make sense?
That does not mean that one cannot suppress ones natural instincts
But what is the point in suppressing anything that is natural? We are not running for sainthood here like St. Thomas Aquinas who took the vow of abstinence. I learned about St. Thomas Aquinas in my Catholic high school. I am not seeking sainthood and see no reason to suppress natural sexual instincts. I unleash my natural sexual curiousity and I see where it takes me and I run with the flow of that natural river. It hasn't taken me to any long term monogamous relationship. In my opinion Seeking Arrangement works best when you have multiple girls you can call when one isn't available. Keep your options open. Sort of like in baseball when you have one closer and all the other bullpen pitchers suck and then your closer gets hurt or suspended. Your fucked. So, I choose not to let myself have that happen. I have a great bullpen right now.
Funny thing is that this relationship is nearly monogamous, at least for me. (Can't speak for her.) We're fifteen months in and, frankly, what I'm spending freely in helping to support her is probably all I'm willing to spend. She's an absolute dream and despite the differences in our ages (69 and 32), we click on every level: ethical, cultural, aesthetic and political. (She left me at 3 this afternoon to go hear Angela Davis speak. My kind of girl.) I've probably only seen 2-3 escorts in the last six months, mostly due to time constraints.I'm ready to bet that for you, at this point, the demands of a monogamous relationship exceeds what you're ready to invest in it (financially and otherwise) and you see your current arrangement as satisfying your needs.
Can't say, though I feel quite committed to her. That said, I'm totally free to play around at will. This is called having your cake and eating it too.How long, if ever, before you change your mind? It will depend on how this relationship evolves.
You make complete sense. My earlier statement failed to take into consideration compromises that one might make in the name of security, etc. For me, my family is grown, all fabulous successful happy adults. I've got all the security I need. And I have a dream relationship with a sweetheart whom I do not possess and have no desire to.Am I mumbling here or do I make sense?
I must disagree. Do we (or most of us) actually weigh the benefits vs. the disadvantages of the long term monogamous relationship or do we simply follow, like sheep, the dictates of our culture which, until recently, said one man, one woman...for life?I see it as a more or less conscious cost-benefit analysis.
Good sex??? Really?Each one of us looks at the monogamous love relationship in terms of what it will bring us (e.g. emotional security, good sex, family)...
Sam21,
Those who have been through difficult divorces are entitled to have the feelings expressed by Rumples. I have never been through a divorce so I would certainly defer to his experience in that area. I accept that it influences his thinking and given his life experience his sentiments are entitled to be expressed. I would place less value on posts that opine without the benefit of that experience.
BTW I completely agree with Rumples sheep comment. We are programmed to believe monogamy and marriage are ideal life strategies. I rejected the programming completely and unequivocally. Long ago.
Those who have been through difficult divorces are entitled to have the feelings expressed by Rumples. I have never been through a divorce so I would certainly defer to his experience in that area. I accept that it influences his thinking and given his life experience his sentiments are entitled to be expressed. I would place less value on posts that opine without the benefit of that experience.
BTW I completely agree with Rumples sheep comment. We are programmed to believe monogamy and marriage are ideal life strategies. I rejected the programming completely and unequivocally. Long ago.
I must disagree. Do we (or most of us) actually weigh the benefits vs. the disadvantages of the long term monogamous relationship or do we simply follow, like sheep, the dictates of our culture which, until recently, said one man, one woman...for life?
In our younger years, as teenagers for example, we do follow (or at least a good portion of us do). Although teenage is the time to test values and boundaries, this one is one of the most deeply ingrained since childhood ("they lived happy ever after"....). However, after trying a couple of relationships, most of us smarten up. I am sure that by our early 20s, when we accept or seek a new monogamous relationship, we don't get into it naively or blindly. There is a reason for it: fear of being lonely, desire to "fit" in a group, desire to have a family, or simply fun to be with her: whatever it is for each one of us, there is a reason, something against which we trade our independence.
Good sex??? Really?
And yes, good sex is part of it. If you didn't get good sex at the beginning of a relationship then she must have brought you something else... You must have traded your independence against something. But my point is that things evolve and the reasons that were present initially do fade. And good sex is usually one of them....
Arrangements occupies a niche market, between total independence and total committed monogamy. Let's be real here, there are many gold diggers pretending to want an arrangement but who are simply looking to scam or trying to get maximum gain with minimum involvement. I've had girls asking me, with incredible arrogance, $10,000/month, telling me they're worth at least that! But those girls who are truly looking for an arrangement and are happy in long term arrangement do it for a reason similar to ours. And when you meet those girls, there is no bitterness or little mind game, it's a fair deal.
I know my gal is very happy about our deal, as I believe yours is, and I see no reason in the short to medium term that will change that. She gets much more than financial help, she gets access to mentoring and my professional network that girls of her age don't have and that will help her tremendously in the long run. And yes she does have daddy issues and finds in me someone who cares for her and value her instead of someone who beats her and despise her. On my side, I do get much more than just good sex. Good times, tenderness and affection is something that cannot be purchased. But we both know it's a deal. Affection and even some form of love (or emotional attachment, call it what you want) is present, but no possession. However, at some point the balance may tilt, maybe some of her needs/motivations will change, maybe I'll get bored and want either more variety or stability, who knows? I see these evolving just as stable monogamous relationships do.
Now, as some have pointed out, sometimes it evolves into something that both partners still find worthwhile. And that's quite fine, good for them, no judgement from my part. But it is far from being the universal model that society would like us to believe.
All valid reasons, but I still maintain that the overarching one is the cultural breeding which leads most to not consider the alternative. Fear of being lonely, ok, but that doesn't require possessive monogamy. Desire to have a family, ok, but that doesn't require possessive monogamy. Fear of being lonely, ok, but that doesn't require possessive monogamy. Fun to be with her, again that doesn't require possessive monogamy. Hmm, all that leaves is desire to fit in a group.There is a reason for it: fear of being lonely, desire to "fit" in a group, desire to have a family, or simply fun to be with her: whatever it is for each one of us, there is a reason, something against which we trade our independence.
The sex for the first six months as fabulous. For the next six months, it was ok. For the next 16 years, it was dispensed begrudgingly and increasingly less frequent until I started playing with escorts and just giving up at home.And yes, good sex is part of it. If you didn't get good sex at the beginning of a relationship then she must have brought you something else... You must have traded your independence against something. But my point is that things evolve and the reasons that were present initially do fade. And good sex is usually one of them....
I've said more than enough about my relationship. She found me on SA because it was clear that I wasn't looking for a Barbie or arm candy. She's appreciative of my generosity, which plays quite to her benefit. While the relationship is not monogamous by design, she's managed to pretty much dissipate my desire for other women. I think I've seen four escorts in the last year. I've been off in Europe on a bike trip for the last two weeks, and not a day goes by when don't chat online for at least a lArrangements occupies a niche market, between total independence and total committed monogamy. Let's be real here, there are many gold diggers pretending to want an arrangement but who are simply looking to scam or trying to get maximum gain with minimum involvement. I've had girls asking me, with incredible arrogance, $10,000/month, telling me they're worth at least that! But those girls who are truly looking for an arrangement and are happy in long term arrangement do it for a reason similar to ours. And when you meet those girls, there is no bitterness or little mind game, it's a fair deal.
Exactly. The only difference it that she doesn't appear to have anything resembling "daddy issues." In fact, she has a warm relationship with both of her parents. While her mother knows about us, her father does not. My adult kids all do.On my side, I do get much more than just good sex. Good times, tenderness and affection is something that cannot be purchased. But we both know it's a deal. Affection and even some form of love (or emotional attachment, call it what you want) is present, but no possession.
Questions to all the experienced gentlemen here.
i am 39 and I met a very sweet escort twice who is 20. She has another full time job and does this only occasionally for some extra cash. We hit off in our 1st meeting itself and she asked me to come back. In our 2nd meeting, when I asked she even gave me her real name and we are now connected on social media with access to her family and friends.
I want to help her not do this any more and am thinking of offering her an arrangement. Do you think it's a good idea? I am moving out from my current relationship of 18 years and was also contemplating renting an apartment and asking her to move in with me. She does not belong here and I can't get her out of my head. I know it's fucked up and my head is a bit twisted st the moment. Maybe I am thinking too far ahead. Maybe I should just stop seeing her and go back to seeing new girls every time like I used to. Don't know what to do.
i am 39 and I met a very sweet escort twice who is 20. She has another full time job and does this only occasionally for some extra cash. We hit off in our 1st meeting itself and she asked me to come back. In our 2nd meeting, when I asked she even gave me her real name and we are now connected on social media with access to her family and friends.
I want to help her not do this any more and am thinking of offering her an arrangement. Do you think it's a good idea? I am moving out from my current relationship of 18 years and was also contemplating renting an apartment and asking her to move in with me. She does not belong here and I can't get her out of my head. I know it's fucked up and my head is a bit twisted st the moment. Maybe I am thinking too far ahead. Maybe I should just stop seeing her and go back to seeing new girls every time like I used to. Don't know what to do.
Do you think it's a good idea?
I think you are out of your mind.
You are infatuated with someone you have met twice. Your head is definitely twisted.
The best thing for you is to never see her again, get your head back in order.
Agree with WW. This is going too far too fast. You feel in love Raw1, this is not what an arrangement is about. Beware...
I think you are out of your mind.
You are infatuated with someone you have met twice. Your head is definitely twisted.
The best thing for you is to never see her again, get your head back in order.
I also agree with WW. I have had social media contact with escorts, it doesn't mean she is in love with you. She probably thinks you are a good client, nothing more. You wanting to "save her" is quite frankly a judgmental attitude and every single younger guy with a Jesus complex I have met through the years did not last in the business as clients and developed HORRIBLE reps with agencies, girls and other clients, because they tended to upset the girls about their work. Escorts think "saviors" are judgmental assholes for the most part, so I would not be sharing your intensely judgmental ideas with her lest she form the same opinion of you. Trust me, most girls who work as escorts pick out the clients who are "saviors" and do not like the preachy bullshit, and they are almost always younger guys who think a lot of themselves and liken themselves to Jesus. You are not Jesus. Jesus saved, you do not. Don't go Batty Messiah on us, it's a crown you do not want to wear and you will be mocked for wearing it, perhaps openly.
Get your head in order guy.
Eagerbeaver I never used the word save and that's not how I think.
This is what you said:
I want to help her not do this any more
In other words you are a SAVIOR. That is what we call people who say things like this in the business. Seen this MANY times before. The language you used tells us all we need to know. As I said before, it's not for you to decide whether or not she does this. She makes that decision, and she alone. Leave the saving to Jesus and the Salvation Army please.
Excuse me but taking someone out of the business is not "helping them." Sam 21 you do not know anything about the business, and you do not know the problems agencies have had with savior type individuals making the same comments in the past. I recall more than one person who had to be spoken to about this and flat out told he was not going to be invited to industry parties if he did not stop the savior bullshit. And the girls do not want to hear it. It's a problem and it is mostly a problem with younger guys with little experience as clients. I personally overheard one guy talked to about it and I wasn't doing the talking, it was someone else at the behest of an agency owner who was livid.
Guy was saying the same things as Raw1, almost verbatim. Agencies view guys like this as threats, much more than we do. I also know a few who got banned for same reasons.
And frankly if you have not been to any parties (never met you at a single one of 20 or so I have been to) the people who were know what I am talking about. The saviors are the people who don't get invited and if you want to learn anything PAY ATTENTION or you may find yourself on that list as well.
You seem to think I am just spouting opinions but my posts above are based on real life facts personally witnessed.
Guy was saying the same things as Raw1, almost verbatim. Agencies view guys like this as threats, much more than we do. I also know a few who got banned for same reasons.
And frankly if you have not been to any parties (never met you at a single one of 20 or so I have been to) the people who were know what I am talking about. The saviors are the people who don't get invited and if you want to learn anything PAY ATTENTION or you may find yourself on that list as well.
You seem to think I am just spouting opinions but my posts above are based on real life facts personally witnessed.
Yeah your the freaken genius that knows everything about everything.
Who gives a shit about parties anyway.
Learn a little common decency and politeness it does wonders even with women.
You do not know anything about me, or common decency or politeness. Everything I said above falls in the category of experience of what happens at parties when guys socialize with escorts on a mass scale and experiences meeting clients who have developed reputations within the industry, not from me but from the agencies themselves. You do not know a thing about my reputation within the industry with the people who actually matter or the ladies I have regularly seen. I speak from experience, and I have learned from it. This is an escort board, either you want to be a part of the business or not. If you really want to be a client in this business (very questionable IMHO), you would pay a little more attention and start asking people if I am right about what I posted above, instead of posting your usual self righteous nonsense.
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