It’s a psychology experiment.
You can read the analysis next month in Psychology Today
Nice la Presse Article on XO this morning
- Thread starter felixLg
- Start date
You can read the analysis next month in Psychology Today
You are unique.
A 100% cash business that declares 100% of their income defies gravity.
I am not unique, many of my peers are doing the same as me. And my business is not 100% cash, but that's another conversation.
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Easier & more efficient to target an Agency with 50 people working out of a dozen apartments in a few buildings with thousands of clients than surveille ~50 apartments of Indys who are not breaking the law as it stands.
Agencies are technically breaking the law, will get no sympathy & LE gets more bang for the loonie and a flashy headline, especially if there’s a minor age issue.
A few years ago the consensus was these busts happened every few years off island before elections. Something has changed as this underage incident was years back.
I think Le knows. A lot more then we think they do.
We might be crafty, but they're not dumb.
A police investigator once told me:
Kid, you wanna go on that path? Understand that as a criminal; you will always need to be lucky. As a cop; I'll only need to be lucky once!
They keep the structures that are in place because it keeps the peace.
Because you don't want to create a vacuum with random new commers that might be worst then their predecessors.
It's the same with drugs and some other illegal activities...
You stick to what is in place and most likely kicks you a couple bucks to look the other way.
It is not a line of work that will go away. It has been around before you and I, and will be in place after you and I have long gone.
If you start scaring everyone, you drive the business underground and make it even harder for Le to keep an eye on.
You put Sw back at risks of even more abuses. That defeats the very purpose of the law format that is in place, and the progress that has been made over the years.
Let's not forget; Xo went from #1 agency to not even posting on merb in a short span of time.
What happened? Let your imagination run wild. Greed?
It started a backline of chatter back to LE.
Underage girls and abuses we're mentioned.
Media got involved.
Someone put pressure.
LE pulled the plug.
A new one will rise and the cycle continues.
I am curious of what will come from the trial. My guess is: Dried up ink somewhere on page twenty eight of an old news paper, floatting in the wind.
But did it keep underage from getting involved? Yes!
Did it Highlights abuses, thus helping present Sw? Yes!
Is it all pink, sunshine and rainbows? No!
But it serves as a reminder, and it makes us talk... A lot.
We might be crafty, but they're not dumb.
A police investigator once told me:
Kid, you wanna go on that path? Understand that as a criminal; you will always need to be lucky. As a cop; I'll only need to be lucky once!
They keep the structures that are in place because it keeps the peace.
Because you don't want to create a vacuum with random new commers that might be worst then their predecessors.
It's the same with drugs and some other illegal activities...
You stick to what is in place and most likely kicks you a couple bucks to look the other way.
It is not a line of work that will go away. It has been around before you and I, and will be in place after you and I have long gone.
If you start scaring everyone, you drive the business underground and make it even harder for Le to keep an eye on.
You put Sw back at risks of even more abuses. That defeats the very purpose of the law format that is in place, and the progress that has been made over the years.
Let's not forget; Xo went from #1 agency to not even posting on merb in a short span of time.
What happened? Let your imagination run wild. Greed?
It started a backline of chatter back to LE.
Underage girls and abuses we're mentioned.
Media got involved.
Someone put pressure.
LE pulled the plug.
A new one will rise and the cycle continues.
I am curious of what will come from the trial. My guess is: Dried up ink somewhere on page twenty eight of an old news paper, floatting in the wind.
But did it keep underage from getting involved? Yes!
Did it Highlights abuses, thus helping present Sw? Yes!
Is it all pink, sunshine and rainbows? No!
But it serves as a reminder, and it makes us talk... A lot.
I went through the whole discussion and.. ooffff.. some of y'all make us look really bad.
i did subject myself to something pretty grueling ha. this subject is personal to me, it touches on many things ive witnessed in my life. ive never admitted to anyone other than a few people that i hired SP from agencies after i saw the path my ex girlfriend went down on. there was a lot of violence, abuse, alcoholism etc in my family. an incident happened to my younger sister and she was never believed by anyone, she was a mess for a few years. ive seen this happen to many women friends of mine. there are exceptions to this rule but after everything i saw i say- believe and respect women. its not because these women are escorts that they deserve to be poorly treated. one of my good friends used to be a stripper in 2010, we had long conversations about the industry. she knows i see escorts, doesn't judge me, but we had a long talk. the SP i see share what they want to share but i want our dates to be fun and not an interrogatory
of course the cops know and probably monitor this forum, its mildly funny (in a depressing way) that some of y'all are so afraid of the cops coming after you. after 2018 i never used agencies again and it wasn't very hard to find the right girls for me, i dont look at every single ad, i haven't read reviews in years because some of my favorite providers barely have any or they dont accept them. there's a delusional and hysterical aspect to how some men here are defending the agencies and attacking the girls who are participating. its like you're watching a toddler having a lollipop being taken away from him
merbists bringing up taxes is the cherry on top of the shit sundae- it screams i was born with a silver spoon in my mouth. desperate attempt to discredit SP. i know not all women of this industry are angels, but have some respect
Since this thread has blown up I'll drop my 2¢. I've been lurking it anyway.
In this world the only people who you can truly be sure are in it without being coerced or even worse - forced - are the indy's who manage themselves & ladies from the sugar websites.
Leolist/online classifieds seem hit & miss with many ladies having substance abuse issues, pimps, or being outright scammers.
I always feel like if I pick up the phone & am able to talk directly to who I will see chances are she's there without someone making her see x number of clients/day; do certain acts she might not want; see people she may not want, etc...
I'm sure indy's & sugar babies see clients they may not want or perform acts they may not be 100% OK with - but at the end of the day they have considerably more autonomy to decide their own work environments.
With agencies you just can't be sure.
I'm guilty myself of using agencies & MP's & anyone can read through my post history & see that. So I'm not trying to point fingers.
I'm very selective about who I see both in looks & personality. Montreal's indies for whatever reason rarely do it for me.
For awhile I really tried to go through those sugar dating websites but it's A LOT of work to filter fake pics, ladies with a rotten personality, asking you to send money before you've met, etc... I didn't have the patience. But maybe it's time to have a closer look at these agencies & MP's I use.
Most people work a job they don't love & I emphasize with what. But coercing (which is different from outright forcing) someone into sex acts is a level up from whatever job you might be doing that you don't like.
How much would someone have to pay you to eat out a girl you find ugly or unattractive?
What about sucking a dick?
And then how many times in a day?
And then what happens if your employer threatens to expose you if you don't double the dicks you suck in a day, and with enthusiasm?!
It's not the same as 'Damn I have to stay longer hours than I wished' or 'I have to work with this person I don't like''. Not to mention SW's are governed by laws &... corporations... which are much more fluid about their laws & rules for their clients & employees. I can only think of military/police, maybe healthcare & ambulance workers being comparable with their exposure to occupational hazards, along with a handful of other jobs (sewage ar treatment, morgue, etc...).
Also while we're on the subject - I find the Asian MP's/Agencies are reallyyyy questionable with their practices. Particularly any of the ones who have consistently rotating roster's of ladies. I won't name names. But we all know who they are.
You can think how easily anyone with a nebulous immigration status could get sucked into this underworld.
I feel bad about going to them.
But I've also known one or two ladies who have come to Canada through the agencies because they make much more money vs back home & comfortably retire after minimal time in the industry vs. if they did the same work in their own country. So it's not like I can call it out as totally evil either...
If anyone wants to offer their thoughts on what I'm saying, I'm listening.
Especially ladies still in the industry or who were.
Is there any low hanging fruit that would make this industry more ethical?
In this world the only people who you can truly be sure are in it without being coerced or even worse - forced - are the indy's who manage themselves & ladies from the sugar websites.
Leolist/online classifieds seem hit & miss with many ladies having substance abuse issues, pimps, or being outright scammers.
I always feel like if I pick up the phone & am able to talk directly to who I will see chances are she's there without someone making her see x number of clients/day; do certain acts she might not want; see people she may not want, etc...
I'm sure indy's & sugar babies see clients they may not want or perform acts they may not be 100% OK with - but at the end of the day they have considerably more autonomy to decide their own work environments.
With agencies you just can't be sure.
I'm guilty myself of using agencies & MP's & anyone can read through my post history & see that. So I'm not trying to point fingers.
I'm very selective about who I see both in looks & personality. Montreal's indies for whatever reason rarely do it for me.
For awhile I really tried to go through those sugar dating websites but it's A LOT of work to filter fake pics, ladies with a rotten personality, asking you to send money before you've met, etc... I didn't have the patience. But maybe it's time to have a closer look at these agencies & MP's I use.
Most people work a job they don't love & I emphasize with what. But coercing (which is different from outright forcing) someone into sex acts is a level up from whatever job you might be doing that you don't like.
How much would someone have to pay you to eat out a girl you find ugly or unattractive?
What about sucking a dick?
And then how many times in a day?
And then what happens if your employer threatens to expose you if you don't double the dicks you suck in a day, and with enthusiasm?!
It's not the same as 'Damn I have to stay longer hours than I wished' or 'I have to work with this person I don't like''. Not to mention SW's are governed by laws &... corporations... which are much more fluid about their laws & rules for their clients & employees. I can only think of military/police, maybe healthcare & ambulance workers being comparable with their exposure to occupational hazards, along with a handful of other jobs (sewage ar treatment, morgue, etc...).
Also while we're on the subject - I find the Asian MP's/Agencies are reallyyyy questionable with their practices. Particularly any of the ones who have consistently rotating roster's of ladies. I won't name names. But we all know who they are.
You can think how easily anyone with a nebulous immigration status could get sucked into this underworld.
I feel bad about going to them.
But I've also known one or two ladies who have come to Canada through the agencies because they make much more money vs back home & comfortably retire after minimal time in the industry vs. if they did the same work in their own country. So it's not like I can call it out as totally evil either...
If anyone wants to offer their thoughts on what I'm saying, I'm listening.
Especially ladies still in the industry or who were.
Is there any low hanging fruit that would make this industry more ethical?
Newsflash: Also a lot of police officers are tricks and/or whores as well. Océane from the Filles de Joie agency in Laval confirmed this to me back in 2024. One of her regular is a cop from rive-sud if I recall correctly. Just last year in the USA a female patroler was exposed as a pornstar in a milf website. Law enforcement are humans as well just like us regular citizens and participate in prostitution as consumers and providers alike. They know where to look if a complete prohibition was the ultimate objective (which it is not)*.
Some said it was normal and better than now. I guess that this is showing again the ugly behind the scene.
This story broke a few days before I left on a 2-week trip to Japan (mainly to attend the F1 GP of Japan-not to pursue "the hobby"). I didn't see it until I got back a few days ago. I have read the LP article, watched the "Clementine" interview and read some of the posts in the thread, some of which are good and some are overwrought. Here are a few quick thoughts of my own.
First, it's great to see a thread in the Lounge that is actually worth reading!
It's been a long time since I thought that.
I'm not surprised that La Presse broke this story. LP is the now the main newspaper of the francophone establishment in Montreal (Le Journal de Montreal is more of a blue collar paper) and it has long been clear that most of its reporters, commentators and editors do not like Montreal's reputation as a destination for sex tourism (even though most visitors to Montreal have no knowledge about this part of Montreal's list of attractions). If the staff of La Presse could vote on abolishing prostitution and strip clubs, most would vote Oui in an instant. Neverthless, the newspaper loves stories like this since it attracts readers and these days newspapers need all the readers they can get.
Strangely, I couldn't find any coverage of the story in LJDM and the Montreal Gazette. Maybe it's not really that big of a story and maybe the police tipped off La Presse about the story knowing that the paper would support this kind of operation.
I'm also not surprised that the usual suspects immediately jumped on the opportunity presented by the story to promote the idea " Indies good, agencies bad." Of course, they deny that's what they're doing but they are not very subtle in their comments and I can see that they are having an effect on guys. Many have sworn that they will never use agencies again and only use indies. That doesn't bother me, because everyone has to do what they can to promote their business and disparage the competition. And when one of your competitors (XO) fucks up and creates mass hysteria, it's a great time to get your customers to swear to only buy what you're selling (the supposedly superior and more "ethical" indy experience). Nevertheless when things calm down, I doubt those promises not to use agencies will be kept.
Of course, it is possible that this is the beginning of the end for escort agencies in Montreal (MERB indies sure hope so). As I and others have noted, the laws to put an end to agencies have been on the books for years and it's just a question of enforcing them. However, to paraphrase Mark Twain, I think the reports of the demise of agencies have been greatly exaggerated. Based on what we know so far, this is an isolated case of one agency becoming very complacent and fucking up. It apparently hired a 17 year old girl (I am shocked, shocked to see that any female under the age of 18 has a sexual fantasy of becoming an escort and getting highly paid to have sex when she has been having sex for free since she was 14 or 15). XO managed to mistreat and alienate a few girls with their poor management practices to the extent that the girls complained to the police.
Worst of all, XO alienated the tenants of the residential buildings that it used as it places of business. I have always been surprised that the main incall agencies got away with this practice for such a long time. Since I am a visitor to Montreal and I always use my hotel room as a rendezvous site, I have never used an agency that mainly does incalls. I understand the advantages of incalls but I never liked the idea of sneaking around in residential areas and buildings. It's kind of amazing that the incall business model didn't cause a big problem sooner than now.
I have been around the Montreal escort scene long enough to know that cases like this one have happened before and a few posters have cited some examples. Those previous incidents did not put an end to escort agencies in general, just to one agency in particular. I don't think there is any danger to the clients of XO, though the agency staff who were arrested do have something to worry about. They may even be convicted of something though that remains to be seen. We should remember that even Canada extends a presumption of innocence to the accused and we need to wait to see what happens to them. The sensational accusations of the purported "survivors" are not proof of anything yet. As I have clearly stated before, I do not subscribe to the "believe all women" school of thought.
First, it's great to see a thread in the Lounge that is actually worth reading!
It's been a long time since I thought that. I'm not surprised that La Presse broke this story. LP is the now the main newspaper of the francophone establishment in Montreal (Le Journal de Montreal is more of a blue collar paper) and it has long been clear that most of its reporters, commentators and editors do not like Montreal's reputation as a destination for sex tourism (even though most visitors to Montreal have no knowledge about this part of Montreal's list of attractions). If the staff of La Presse could vote on abolishing prostitution and strip clubs, most would vote Oui in an instant. Neverthless, the newspaper loves stories like this since it attracts readers and these days newspapers need all the readers they can get.
Strangely, I couldn't find any coverage of the story in LJDM and the Montreal Gazette. Maybe it's not really that big of a story and maybe the police tipped off La Presse about the story knowing that the paper would support this kind of operation.
I'm also not surprised that the usual suspects immediately jumped on the opportunity presented by the story to promote the idea " Indies good, agencies bad." Of course, they deny that's what they're doing but they are not very subtle in their comments and I can see that they are having an effect on guys. Many have sworn that they will never use agencies again and only use indies. That doesn't bother me, because everyone has to do what they can to promote their business and disparage the competition. And when one of your competitors (XO) fucks up and creates mass hysteria, it's a great time to get your customers to swear to only buy what you're selling (the supposedly superior and more "ethical" indy experience). Nevertheless when things calm down, I doubt those promises not to use agencies will be kept.
Of course, it is possible that this is the beginning of the end for escort agencies in Montreal (MERB indies sure hope so). As I and others have noted, the laws to put an end to agencies have been on the books for years and it's just a question of enforcing them. However, to paraphrase Mark Twain, I think the reports of the demise of agencies have been greatly exaggerated. Based on what we know so far, this is an isolated case of one agency becoming very complacent and fucking up. It apparently hired a 17 year old girl (I am shocked, shocked to see that any female under the age of 18 has a sexual fantasy of becoming an escort and getting highly paid to have sex when she has been having sex for free since she was 14 or 15). XO managed to mistreat and alienate a few girls with their poor management practices to the extent that the girls complained to the police.
Worst of all, XO alienated the tenants of the residential buildings that it used as it places of business. I have always been surprised that the main incall agencies got away with this practice for such a long time. Since I am a visitor to Montreal and I always use my hotel room as a rendezvous site, I have never used an agency that mainly does incalls. I understand the advantages of incalls but I never liked the idea of sneaking around in residential areas and buildings. It's kind of amazing that the incall business model didn't cause a big problem sooner than now.
I have been around the Montreal escort scene long enough to know that cases like this one have happened before and a few posters have cited some examples. Those previous incidents did not put an end to escort agencies in general, just to one agency in particular. I don't think there is any danger to the clients of XO, though the agency staff who were arrested do have something to worry about. They may even be convicted of something though that remains to be seen. We should remember that even Canada extends a presumption of innocence to the accused and we need to wait to see what happens to them. The sensational accusations of the purported "survivors" are not proof of anything yet. As I have clearly stated before, I do not subscribe to the "believe all women" school of thought.
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I really wish I have known some of you folks when I was in college because I would pay some of you top dollar to write my papers and probably end up in the Dean’s List.
I don’t see them doing that unless you literally handed them all the evidence they needed by being stupid and over communicating when booking.
Essential elements require consideration and sexual services.
Booking should never involve any discussions of cost (eg consideration) or services. When I book, it is just “Is Kate available at 7pm on Tuesday?” That’s it.
Never mention cost and never mention services. You research that yourself.
Technically paying for companionship is not illegal. So the rule of thumb is to not text anything explicit or sexual.I don’t see them doing that unless you literally handed them all the evidence they needed by being stupid and over communicating when booking.
Essential elements require consideration and sexual services.
Booking should never involve any discussions of cost (eg consideration) or services. When I book, it is just “Is Kate available at 7pm on Tuesday?” That’s it.
Never mention cost and never mention services. You research that yourself.
It's not uncommon for the agency to mention price and ask you to confirm it.
the one who got arrested I had heard and known about for years. I get the ick every time a merb member talks about him like they are buddy buddy. Many SPs I saw have told me bad things - many who have had their lives pretty mess up after. I stopped using them a long time ago.
As for the one you are talking about, I know they have done similar things as the article described.
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