13 year old missing girl found in older man's hotel room

[eastender]

Very True

Hello, everyone. I have been watching this thread go farther and farther off topic to the point where it has very little to do with the original topic of the thread. We've gone from an incident in Montreal to discussions about Elvis and Ghandi. If anyone wishes to continue the offshoot discussion, I will be glad to create another thread for it or allow one of you to do so and I will move the pertinent posts. Otherwise this thread stops here unless people get back to the original topic.

Mod 8

Mod 8

You are quite accurate in your comments. The ancestoral and cultural references though interesting are not relevent at all though they do support the position that parents, society, customs and people in authority have the final say.

 

[coco-des-îles]

Well I did not read all of the above.
If the guy is a sex predator,
So, the little girl is a fucken bitch!
I am sure she knew very well what was on the menu once she got to the hotel room.
Who are we to judge, maybe they had wonderfull sex.
She is one year under legal age of consentment. Bid deal! Let's be serious, what legality has to do with morality!
I read on the news the other day of a 10 year old argentinian girl having a child. It was presented as a good news, not a sex scandal.
I might be totally wrong, but I might be also totally right.
People here congratulating police action, thus accepting repression and breaking up in a private hotel room. This make me puke!
Because they could do very well the same when you are there with your favorite sp, my friend! And you will be cought breaking the law too!
Remenber nothing is black and white in life.
Laws are fine as long as they are used to protect people, not to repress their right to liberty, no matter their age.

 

[Tracy]

As I said earlier, in the paper the police even said that she was "in love" with her "captor" and was VERY upset that they had arrived at the hotel room. This to me sounds like some one who wanted to be there and the media is playing it up because she is 13 and him 31. Yes, she is underage and it is the mans responsability to say no at that point, But as I also stated earlier, Whats to say the girl did not pass herself as being older?
Has any one looked how the girls these days dress? Can you really tell if they are actually 13? I do not think so and what makes this man any different?
Just from the personal perspective, I was working ontario at 16. No one not even the police realised my age.
I think if this 13 year old was so upset that the police showed up and took her "friend" Then maybe she just did not tell him she was 13. Maybe he was upfront with her in his emails to say he was 31. What girl does not want the mature sophisticated older man?

 

[Tracy]

I have no idea if this guy knew the girl was 13 yrs old or not but if he did, he should be tarred and feathered and paraded down st catherine's street and people should be able to beat him with sticks. In my opinion this is the treatment that all pedophiles deserve.

I agree, If he did in fact know that she was thirteen it was his adult responsability to leave her alone.
And pedophiles deserve worse than that.....

 

[leneo]

Chop Is Ball !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Doc Holliday]

I agree with what Tracy wrote. It's getting more & more difficult today to tell a girl's age. They dress up like adults (often the slutty Britney Spears/Christina Aguilera type) more & more. Not only speaking for myself, but who hasn't been caught checking out attractive & provocatively dressed young women walking on the street, only to notice once they saw their faces that they were probably only 15 or 16 (hopefully not younger!) and then wind up feeling foolish as hell thinking that they were 18 or 19 initially.

I've also met very popular high-end sps in the past who admitted to me that they started in this business at the age of 15 & 16 and that they were fairly certain that their employers knew of their 'real' age, yet passed them on as being 18 due to their popularity. Even though these women were now mature beyond their ages & were consenting adults who now wanted to earn money from this profession, they were fully aware that they were very gullible & naive at the time & were exploited by older men & that negative circumstances in their family life were partly responsible for leading them to this type of life.

 

[korbel]

As I said earlier, in the paper the police even said that she was "in love" with her "captor" and was VERY upset that they had arrived at the hotel room. This to me sounds like some one who wanted to be there and the media is playing it up because she is 13 and him 31. Yes, she is underage and it is the mans responsability to say no at that point, But as I also stated earlier, Whats to say the girl did not pass herself as being older?
Has any one looked how the girls these days dress? Can you really tell if they are actually 13? I do not think so and what makes this man any different?
Just from the personal perspective, I was working ontario at 16. No one not even the police realised my age.
I think if this 13 year old was so upset that the police showed up and took her "friend" Then maybe she just did not tell him she was 13. Maybe he was upfront with her in his emails to say he was 31. What girl does not want the mature sophisticated older man?

Hello Tracy,

We can all agree that the idea of a 31 year old man being with a 13 year old girl is heinous. That specter is something the newspapers know very well how to profit from even if it is a legitimate story the public should be informed about. As you indicated there is no excuse for the man once he is aware who the girl really is. But we should also be concerned about her complicity in all of this. I know many teens who plays games at a very early age to get what they want from men, don't worry about consequences and certainly not about legalities. I know many much older women who are embarrassed now about what they did to get men, often much older men, but do not regret their trickery up to and including purposely getting pregnant.

Then as Doc said, it's hard to tell how old some girls are. One study I saw a couple of years ago said girls are reaching puberty now two years earlier than they did twenty-thirty years ago. The key factor seems to be weight of about 105 lbs that causes a genetic hormonal trigger responding to the ability to sustain pregnancy. As we all know, the kind and amount of food we all eat has made everyone generally heavier on the average, and for girls this means earlier development according to this study. Combine that with the extreme current of sexuality in society today and you have the great problem of separating girls from women.

So who knows what this girl was up to. The guy was absolutely wrong to be there. But beware the needy conniving teen determined to get what she wants. Maybe this one was one of them.

Cheers,

Korbel

 

[Mike Mercury]

Wikipedia is often mistake ridden. It states:
All over Canada, it used to be 14 and since March 2008 it is 16 all over Canada.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Canada

 

[Doc Holliday]

May 1, 2008

Canada's age of consent raised by 2 years

It is now illegal for adults in Canada to have sex with a partner under the age of 16, one of the new provisions of the Tories' violent crime law that came into effect on Thursday.

The Tackling Violent Crime Act raises the legal age of sexual consent in Canada to 16 from 14, the first time it has been raised since 1892.

But the law includes a "close-in-age exception," meaning 14- and 15-year-olds can have sex with someone who is less than five years older.

The Tories said they raised the age, in part, to deal with internet predators. The new law puts Canada's age of consent in line with those in Britain, Australia and most of the United States.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/05/01/crime-bill.html

 

[eastender]

Pedophiles

Again this thread has taken a turn for the worse and is making unsupported assumptions and implications.

The profiles and internet activities of pedophiles preying on young girls is nearly identical to those preying on young boys - evidenced by the recent arrest of a Montreal private school teacher in Virginia. However no one accuses young boys of dressing provocatively, being promiscuous, lying about their age, etc.

Arguments about the onset of puberty, not supported with links, are very suspicious. So the onset of puberty drops from 12 to 10 or by two years. You may not be sure that they are 10 or 12. Regardless it is fairly obvious that they are not 18.

Working as a SC bouncer I had to deal with the underage issue on a regular basis. Fake IDs, the grown up look. You learn to ask the right questions. The kids give themselves away and you send them to the Dairy Queen.

It comes down to a very simple point "Who is the adult?" The adult should try acting like one.

 

[Tracy]

...
...
Working as a SC bouncer I had to deal with the underage issue on a regular basis. Fake IDs, the grown up look. You learn to ask the right questions. The kids give themselves away and you send them to the Dairy Queen.

It comes down to a very simple point "Who is the adult?" The adult should try acting like one.

Read the gazette from a few days ago. It says right there that the girl was "in love" and pissed off at the cops for showing up. That right there says that she hopefully did lie about her age. And if she didn't, then of course the man is at fault. I understand how poeple like to say it is the girls fault (lawyer told me in court it was my fault whe I was 10 and the man was 36 just cause I was a developed youg lady)
My point on what I said was not to accuse her of being in the wrong but more of an understanding because how many times did I date older guys and lied about my age. If she was upset for the police being there it sounds like she was trying to AWOL and found her way to do it through an older guy. I can name many girls who have done this one......

 

[eastender]

Hope

Read the gazette from a few days ago. It says right there that the girl was "in love" and pissed off at the cops for showing up. That right there says that she hopefully did lie about her age. And if she didn't, then of course the man is at fault. I understand how poeple like to say it is the girls fault (lawyer told me in court it was my fault whe I was 10 and the man was 36 just cause I was a developed youg lady)
My point on what I said was not to accuse her of being in the wrong but more of an understanding because how many times did I date older guys and lied about my age. If she was upset for the police being there it sounds like she was trying to AWOL and found her way to do it through an older guy. I can name many girls who have done this one......

Your point seems to be based on the hope that she lied. Do not think you will get far making such assumptions.

That is the job of defense lawyers when they have a no hope case.

 

[Techman]

An interview with a Police spokesman, which I heard on cjad this morning, stated that, after investigating the e-mails and other communications on the girl's computer, both parties were aware of the other's real names as well as their ages. This was not a case of a girl who appeared or acted older during her interaction with the guy. Apparently they had been communicating for a long time. This guy knew how old she was and still went ahead with the 'relationship'. Yes, some girls can look and act older than their years but this girl was 13 years old!!! Any adult taking advantage of a 13 year old should be locked away for a very long time. There is no excuse for it.

To me this is just another example of the failure of many parents to monitor what their children are doing on the net. If the computer had been in a common area of the home and the parents took care to know what was going on, this could have been avoided. But too many parents today have no idea what their kids are doing on the net.

And for those who have mentioned that 13 year old girls can be very convincing when they want something...well there's a big difference between having your 13 yr old daughter begging to stay out a little longer, or for a new outfit or a belly piercing and having a 13 yr old trying to have sex with you.

Techman

 

[eastender]

Internet Savy Parents

An interview with a Police spokesman, which I heard on cjad this morning, stated that, after investigating the e-mails and other communications on the girl's computer, both parties were aware of the other's real names as well as their ages. This was not a case of a girl who appeared or acted older during her interaction with the guy. Apparently they had been communicating for a long time. This guy knew how old she was and still went ahead with the 'relationship'. Yes, some girls can look and act older than their years but this girl was 13 years old!!! Any adult taking advantage of a 13 year old should be locked away for a very long time. There is no excuse for it.

To me this is just another example of the failure of many parents to monitor what their children are doing on the net. If the computer had been in a common area of the home and the parents took care to know what was going on, this could have been avoided. But too many parents today have no idea what their kids are doing on the net.

And for those who have mentioned that 13 year old girls can be very convincing when they want something...well there's a big difference between having your 13 yr old daughter begging to stay out a little longer, or for a new outfit or a belly piercing and having a 13 yr old trying to have sex with you.

Techman

Techman,

You make a number of very good points. Thank you for clarifying certain details that came to light in the CJAD interview that others may not have had access to. You seem to be one of the rare ones who listens to CJAD since the changing of the guard.

One of the challenges facing the "parental generation" is that the ones with teens did most of their schooling in the pre internet era and their appreciation of the power as well as the dangers of the internet is limited.
The concept that someone can breech the security of your home to corrupt your child is not the easiest to grasp especially if your daily life is such that work and keeping the family unit together do not require internet sophistication.

Six-eight years ago I spent some time teaching Golden Agers within my ethnic community some of the computer and internet basics. The grand or great grandchildren would come by on the weekend and show them tricks on the net that were levels beyond basic.

This situation where in certain instances the children hold a definite edge in internet skill sets is not easy to deal with.

 

[Techman]

Parents should not allow vulnerable children to have private access to an internet connected computer. I have quite a few clients with younger children and they, for the most part, have their computer in an area of the house where the kids can be watched. Not too many parents, I hope anyways, would allow their kids to wander downtown on Crescent St after midnight on a friday night. Allowing them unsupervised access to a computer can be just as dangerous.

If the child must have an internet connected system in their room, there are plenty of very good parental control programs available. Windows Vista has one of the best parental control systems integrated right into it and it's very easy to set up. The problem is that too many parents just can't be bothered to take the time to do anything until it's too late.

Techman

 

[korbel]

An interview with a Police spokesman, which I heard on cjad this morning, stated that, after investigating the e-mails and other communications on the girl's computer, both parties were aware of the other's real names as well as their ages. This was not a case of a girl who appeared or acted older during her interaction with the guy. Apparently they had been communicating for a long time. This guy knew how old she was and still went ahead with the 'relationship'. Yes, some girls can look and act older than their years but this girl was 13 years old!!! Any adult taking advantage of a 13 year old should be locked away for a very long time. There is no excuse for it.

To me this is just another example of the failure of many parents to monitor what their children are doing on the net. If the computer had been in a common area of the home and the parents took care to know what was going on, this could have been avoided. But too many parents today have no idea what their kids are doing on the net.

And for those who have mentioned that 13 year old girls can be very convincing when they want something...well there's a big difference between having your 13 yr old daughter begging to stay out a little longer, or for a new outfit or a belly piercing and having a 13 yr old trying to have sex with you.

Techman

Hello Techman,

That is so obvious Techman that I wonder why you bothered to mention it. I have not read every post in this thread so I don't know if you were referring to me. Maybe there is someone else who needed to have such "no-brainer" reminder pointed out. My own statements were about the general deviousness of many teens and what can be hidden behind a computer. But your previous post, if accurate, makes all the speculation about how she represented herself moot...and that should be that.

Another member should try to remember this is a board of escort hobbyists, escorts, and agencies who here because of their interest in paid sex. There is nothing wrong with those who are uninterested in hobbying being here. But, this is not the place where wannabe omnipotent lawyers should come expecting everyone or anyone to prove every assertion with precise certified documentation. If you have some fantasy about swimming ecstatically in an ocean of immutable facts try the Library of Congress where your pretentious pseudo-superiority can indulge to your heart's delight. Most of us here just do our best as realistic, honest human beings.

Cheers,

Korbel

 

[Techman]

Korbel...

A number of people in this post have suggested that the girl may be partly to blame in this situation. Well I don't give a shit how developed or crafty any adolescent may happen to be. It is the responsibility of the adult in any situation to actually be the adult! Trying to shift the blame in any way at all is as irresponsible a thing to do as is possible.

Yes some young girls can be sexy and yes, they flirt. It's all part of growing up. But when an adult cannot resist this adolescent flirtation, or in fact actively seeks it out, then he isn't much of an adult at all.

And when it comes to watching what kids do on their computers, well some times parents actually have to be parents instead of having daycares raise their children.

Techman

 

[korbel]

Parents should not allow vulnerable children to have private access to an internet connected computer. I have quite a few clients with younger children and they, for the most part, have their computer in an area of the house where the kids can be watched. Not too many parents, I hope anyways, would allow their kids to wander downtown on Crescent St after midnight on a friday night. Allowing them unsupervised access to a computer can be just as dangerous.

If the child must have an internet connected system in their room, there are plenty of very good parental control programs available. Windows Vista has one of the best parental control systems integrated right into it and it's very easy to set up. The problem is that too many parents just can't be bothered to take the time to do anything until it's too late.

Techman

Well Techman,

"Vulnerable"...that's a generous choice of terms that makes it sound like innocent kids are being assaulted with illicit subject matter or always being forced to chat with the wrong people. Even in your own report you show the 13 year old subject of this thread was well aware of who the guy was and was complicit in the culmination of this event. Sure there are predators seeking out victims, and illicit sites using every trick to pop up on every computer. But let's not put halos on all of the victims either. I can tell you from first hand experience that nearly every kid with computer experience knows how reach and hide their use of sites most parents would forbid. Too many kids are just not that innocent and stopping them from going where they shouldn't is a lot of work and many kids trade information on how to get around any preventions. So your suggestions are very good, but many times up against "creative determination."

Korbel...

A number of people in this post have suggested that the girl may be partly to blame in this situation. Well I don't give a shit how developed or crafty any adolescent may happen to be. It is the responsibility of the adult in any situation to actually be the adult! Trying to shift the blame in any way at all is as irresponsible a thing to do as is possible.

Yes some young girls can be sexy and yes, they flirt. It's all part of growing up. But when an adult cannot resist this adolescent flirtation, or in fact actively seeks it out, then he isn't much of an adult at all.

And when it comes to watching what kids do on their computers, well some times parents actually have to be parents instead of having daycares raise their children.

Techman

There was absolutely no shifting of blame by me, just a more realistic view of the possibilities concerning this gross episode, and the realities of sexual mores in society today. Maxima is absolutely right when he says "it is up to the 31 y.o to take all reasonable steps to ascertain the age of the girl." Even more, I will say any doubt in his mind that she was not an adult should have caused him to stop immediately regardless of what was coming from the other side of the computer. So please try not to color what I say with undue slants.

Cheers,

Korbel

 

[naughtylady]

I don't care what you say, you cannot hold a 13 year old responsible. Period, the end.

If she claims to be in love with this guy, then this would be an indication of problems in her home. The fact that she had unsupervised internet access is another clue that there was a lack of parental supervision (care?). The fact that she ran away from home, she was after all with this guy for two days (at least) again suggests that there are big problems at home.

Yes this guy is in the wrong but IMHOP the parents need to shoulder some of the blame for the end result of their 13 year old child ending up in a presumed sexual relationship with a man old enough to be her father.

Ronnie,
Naughtylady

 

[Techman]

Korbel, I don't care how 'innocent' or not these kids may happen to be. NO ADULT has any right to have any kind of sexual relationship with a child! There is no justification or excuse for this! The fact that anyone on this board, supposedly made up of grown thinking adults, can assign any blame to a 13 year old is insane.

And I'm not sorry to correct you, but software does exist, including Vista, that cannot be bypassed by even the smartest of kids. A properly installed and set up system will not be circumvented even by a knowledgeable, trained adult. Parents should take the time to protect their children or they shouldn't have them in the first place. They are not pets.

Techman