A Language Question..If you not mind.

[metoo4]

Again a thread on language, again a trench war...

Who's lacking respect here? Somebody who demand to have a reply in the language of his choice or the person who insist in replying in a different language? I'd say, even if the person replying in a different language is certainly lacking some class, the fact being peoples know she could reply in the requested language, the person demanding a reply in a specific language and complaining when getting a few answers who don't comply is no better.

The solution is simple and is the same I put forward since forever on other topics but, peoples like stirring shit too much, they just can't apply this solution. The solution? IGNORE!!!

Posts in French, ununderstandable by an english reader should just be ignored by said reader. Simply, the post doesn't exist! How can you complain about a post that doesn't exist? Stating the poster of the "offending" post is wrong and should be punished is childish and a lack of respect FOR ALL MEMBERS, exposing them to superiority crisis who most won't ignore, compounding the shit-stirring even more.

The only importance such trivial action as a reply in a different language have is the importance one give it. What will a reply in French change in your life 20 years from now? Not much so, just ignore!

Here's an easy

 

[Techman]

bobody1965, I do not define myself by the language I speak. I will speak French or English as the situation requires and will never force anyone to speak a language they are not comfortable in. I do not feel any different no matter what language I am speaking. I am the same person.

I do not judge someone by the language they speak, I judge them by their actions. I do not discriminate by colour, language, religious belief, the clothes they wear or the length of their hair.

This started as a simple request for a bit of mutual respect when posting on the board and it has once again turned into an all out language war. All because certain people can't agree to be civil and post a reply in the language that a person can understand. Instead they choose to try to turn it around into another political statement against the evil Anglos.

And people wonder why Quebec is so screwed up when it comes to language.

Pour une fois répliquera tu dans "notre" langue ( je parle ici de nous deux seulement ) ?

You will see me post in French on this board when mazingerz decides to start replying to unilingual English posters in English, which he is fully capable of doing, or stops replying to English posts at all.

 

[metoo4]

Et les Franco-Ontariens eux? La plupart que je connais parlent aussi bien le francais que n'importe quel Quebecois & parlent le francais regulierement...ils allent a l'ecole francais (ecole catholique), ecrivent leurs examens provinciaux en francais (ou en anglais s'ils le preferent), ont leur propre chaine de television et plusieurs chaines de radio francophone, fetent la St-Jean Baptiste aussi fort qu'au Quebec....et je pourrais en rajouter. Meme au Manitoba c'est comme ca au sud de Winnipeg dans la region de St-Boniface, etc.

C'est pas juste au Quebec qu'il y a des Canadiens-Francais et ou ils peuvent parler regulierement le francais, apprendre & pouvoir travailler et communiquer dans leur langue. Il y en a partout ailleurs dans le restant du Canada & notre langue et culture y est pour rester.

Doc, on connais pas les mêmes Francos! Ceux que je connais parle un franglais assez frappant, communiques entre-eux plus souvent qu'autrement en anglais et ce, le plus naturellement du monde, écrivent le français aussi bien qu'Oli (Oliver a une excuse qu'ils n'ont pas et il fait un IMMENSE effort.)
Les francos unilingue franco ou bilingues avec priorité au Français sont une espèce en voie de disparition et les assimilés/dénaturés sont en grande progression.

 

[korbel]

You will see me post in French on this board when mazingerz decides to start replying to unilingual English posters in English, which he is fully capable of doing, or stops replying to English posts at all.

Hello Techman,

I am not going to let the lousy attitude of anyone determine what I do. Yes, I have my faults, but I try to do what I respect in myself. To react to someone else's arrogance by denying and failing to do what I know to be honest, respectable, and right is beneath me. Don't let others by de fault determine what you want to do. Don't let someone else's bitterness and bad manners infect you too.

Really,

Korbel

 

[sapman99]

Tech man

I also have an English language PC and I tend to be a bit anal about my spelling and grammar which makes it a pain in the ass for me to post in French.

Control panel ->Regional and language options->Languages tab->Details. You can then add the French Canada keyboard to your profile and switch keyboard layouts by simply pressing Alt-Shift.

A technical pain in the ass... French is SO hard.

You have asked that other people stop putting fuel on the fire, I am quite willing to do this. But I reread the thread from it's inception and you have added more than your share. Are you willing to stop? A French language poster asks you directly to reply in French and you say you can but won't. And the whole purpose of this thread is about replying to other posters in the language that is best for them if the person replying can... Some olive branch there, buddy.

 

[Techman]

Control panel ->Regional and language options->Languages tab->Details. You can then add the French Canada keyboard to your profile and switch keyboard layouts by simply pressing Alt-Shift.

A technical pain in the ass... French is SO hard.

Actually, if I really wanted to, all I have to do is log off and back on and even my Vista will be entirely in French. And if I swap out my English keyboard for a French one I won't even have to hunt for the accents!Amazing isn't it?

I guess that I just can't be bothered to reply in French anymore due to rude, disrespectful posters who refuse to post in English to unilingual English posters.

But don't worry, I won't be replying to French posters requests for information in English. I will not be disrespectful and rude like some others.
I just won't be replying.

Techman

 

[gallantca]

Summary ?

1) A poster asked a simple question
2) Someone responded in a 'a-holish' way
3) To intentionally add fuel to the fire they answered in a 'a-holish' way in a different language

Had he provided a useful answer, even if french, none of this would have happened.

To me, the issue isn't the language, it's just the initial response and follow up responses were made by someone acting like a jerk.

It's the time of year there is no hockey so we needed to debate Language to fill the void

 

[Techman]

No paradox, JAG. I have no problem with discussions in the lounge where people are exchanging ideas in both languages as there is usually someone involved who will translate if necessary, or of any reviews or comments posted in French. I only have a problem with people, one in particular who seems to have made aggravating Anglos on the board his main goal in life, who reply in French to unilingual English posters who post looking for information, usually in the 411 section.

That's it, that's all. Not too difficult a problem to solve you would think.
A little bit of simple respect. But no, it had to be turned into another board language war. In fact the discussion was going on rather smoothly until, guess who?, mazingerz showed up with his typical paranoid anti-English post which triggered everything that has followed.

Instead of giving it a little thought and saying that maybe it would not be a bad idea to post something that the person could actually read, he went on his usual small minded attack on everything English and then he added Americans in general to the mix!

Then we had Sapman99 jumping in trying to put words in my mouth about French 'having it's place' which I never said or even insinuated.

Well I'm not sorry if I got a little pissed off. It seems that only the French posters have the right to defend themselves here. Why should they have a pass on MERB to be rude and insulting? Have you read some of the threads in the Quebec section? DAMN!

Have you ever seen English posters start threads and polls on banning other members, en masse, from the board?

Now someone asks for just a little respect and BOOM, war erupts.

It wasn't the English posters who took the first shot, why should they be the ones to back down? Or the ones to apologize.

Not this time. Sorry.

Techman

 

[Possum Trot]

Techman, I sense a paradox

I see the Merb lounge section as akin to a big, virtual GT. Most people are Anglophones, but a good proportion are French. They gather in small and larger groups at different tables, where different conversations take place. Some discuss the latest escort they saw; others the latest sports news; others try to get to know SPs who made it to the GT better Some of these conversations are held in English; others in French; others in both. Nobody complains if a discussion is started at one table in one language or another, and when sometimes someone needs a translation, no one minds giving it. This is because, back in the real world, face to face, we realize this is Montreal, a city that unofficially has two official languages, and that it would really impossible to regulate the language of a large gathering of people who participate in different discussions, unless we began by regulating who could participate.

JAG

I don't think anyone who is polite ( and certainly this includes Techman) has any problem with the above analogy which is a logical and civilized scenerio.

What the problem seems to be is a very very small minority that disagree with the above.

 

[korbel]

Now someone asks for just a little respect and BOOM, war erupts.

It wasn't the English posters who took the first shot, why should they be the ones to back down? Or the ones to apologize.

Not this time. Sorry.

Techman

Hello Techman,

Why give Mazingerz so much attention? He asks for that which he is not willing to give himself rendering pretty much what he says as hypocritical nonsense. Every response to him just gives him another opportunity to spew his Anglophobic bigotry and bad attitude.

Forget him,

Korbel

 

[korbel]

C'est ça. Continuez d'essayer mais vous ne réussirai pas Et non, je ne répondrai pas dans votre langue. Jamais

LOL,

Jamais...jamais...jamais...comme un petit enfant pleure.

silly,

Korbel

 

[Techman]

Thanks Korby, I am so glad that you were able to quote the post that he so quickly deleted.

And by the way...you are right. He really isn't worth the energy used to write this post. Much less the attention he gets. He makes me think of a French Archie Bunker. But at least Archie was funny. Come to think of it...so is maz.

I'm happy to let him live with his delusions and his inferiority complex.


And to you mazingerz...good night, sleep tight, and don't let the Anglos bite.

I'm out of here.

Techman

 

[eastender]

Amazing

when posters ask you politely to translate who cannot speak french like our american brothers the fact you could yet refuse to comply is a sign of the person you are.

oliver

Wow.

This new concept of brotherhood when applied to Ollie and EB is hard to grasp. Yes there is hope.

Optimism is reborn.

 

[Ben Dover]

Some people just don't get it and probably never will. I have little patience for people who refuse to open their minds and at least venture to have an intelligent debate. In my world, three stikes and you're out.

Magazine guy or whatever his name is has been on my ignore list for as long as I can remember. I used to get irritated by his rude replies (which obviously were meant to purposely annoy other posters), but the whole board just flows much more nicely without his posts.

I can heartily recommend that option to others.

BD

 

[EagerBeaver]

Some people just don't get it and probably never will. I have little patience for people who refuse to open their minds and at least venture to have an intelligent debate. In my world, three stikes and you're out.

Magazine guy or whatever his name is has been on my ignore list for as long as I can remember. I used to get irritated by his rude replies (which obviously were meant to purposely annoy other posters), but the whole board just flows much more nicely without his posts.

I can heartily recommend that option to others.

BD

Certainly that is a valid way of dealing with the situation. But we also have to ask the Mods that if we have someone who is on so many ignore lists and is a well established troublemaker, why don't they just save us the time and ban him. This rationale was used by the Mods to ban other troublemakers, when those troublemakers claimed in their defense that those who did not like what was being said could use the ignore function. Robertpal argued this defense very vigorously and I would say perhaps even convincingly, but he was banned nevertheless.

Once again, as I said earlier in the thread, this IS NOT A LANGUAGE ISSUE. It would be a language issue only if mazingerz was incapable of posting in English which is not the case and was already proven not to be the case. HE IS CAPABLE OF TRANSLATING HIS OWN POSTS INTO ENGLISH BUT REFUSES TO DO SO, EVEN WHEN ASKED.

The issue is that mazingerz is not a team player. As I already said and have told the Mods numerous times, when someone proves they are not a team player, you first bench that player, then you suspend him, and then if his attitude still does not change, you kick him off the team. I already gave the example of the basketball player who decides to launch a 25 foot jumpshot when he has a teammate wide open underneath the basket for an uncontested layup. This is exactly what mazingerz is doing: he is launching the 25 foot jumper instead of making the pass to a teammate for the easy layup. And in that situation you bench the player. If you don't bench the player other players on the team start behaving the same way, in their own self interest, and you soon lose control of the team. I suspect that this is exactly what mazingerz wants - a rebellion, revolution, anarchy and overthrow of the Mods. A modern French revolution if you will.

So it is apparent to me that the Mods should at this point suspend mazingerz for a period of 30 days and allow him to decide whether or not he wants to be a part of the team of whether he wants to go and be on a different board. This community has clearly rejected him and has rejected his attempts to bring his own political interests into his posting acumen which have no place on this Board. This Board is about exchanging information related to the escort business, it is not a political board, and it's not about making individualistic, self serving political statements. I again call on the Mods to do their duty.

 

[metoo4]

EB, I do not agree with mazingerz's way of doing but, let get something totally clear: you or anybody else don't have any rights to demand from anybody to translate any posts in any language. On what grounds would you dare demanding this? Some are saying it and I agree, this is pure arrogance.

Mazingerz only post in french, even to english posters. I agree it's not very nice but, by doing so, he acknowledge he won't be understood by a vast group of peoples and, as far as I know, he never complained about peoples not understanding him. Until he does, and he never will, all you peoples have no ground to stand on. As I said before, IGNORE!

Oh, the ignore defense doesn't stand because other members tried that and it didn't work? But you conveniently failed to notice the circumstances of these bans, the subjects discussed and their repercussions. I don't think RobertPal or GG compare in any ways to mazingerz.

Mazingerz only get on the attack/defensive mode when one of you attack him about language. If all you guys would have the wisdom to simply let him be, there would be no problems. As far as I'm concerned, some could post in Russian and I wouldn't care! In my mind, if they want to be understood, they'll take the mean to do so, if not, I don't understand and I IGNORE.

By the way EB, you are not a MOD so, suggestions about length and cause for suspension aren't your department. I would tend to call the Mods to their duties and ban those who want to refrain the rights of peoples who only use their right to express themselves the way they see fit.

And also, your "team player" analogy is worthless and inapplicable: a team player not obeying the team's rules will affect the team. You not being able to read French affect nobody besides you and, you could remedy to this by ignoring French posts. The MERB team loose nothing with Mazingerz's french posts.

 

[EagerBeaver]

let get something totally clear: you or anybody else don't have any rights to demand from anybody to translate any posts in any language. On what grounds would you dare ask this? Some are saying it and I agree, this is pure arrogance.

Well metoo4, read this:

So to the unilingual Anglos who are tired of reading French posts, I'd say: why don't you ask for a translation more often JAG

So you are saying that JAG is an arrogant bitch? Or that we might be arrogant to act on her suggestion?

By the way EB, you are not a MOD so, suggestions about length and cause for suspension aren't your department. ....... The MERB team loose nothing with Mazingerz's french posts.

As to point one, your are correct I am not a Mod. I have made a suggestion and request to them which I have the right to do.

As to the second point, are you saying the MERB team does not include Special K, myself and other unilingual anglophones? That is what you seem to be saying. But we are part of the team (in fact, Special K and I are helping finance the team), just as much as the Russians and Americans who play for the Montreal Canadiens are part of that team. mazingerz is not a team player, and in fact I would argue he is less a team player than either the banned Robertpal or the banned GG. I got far more info from both of their posts than I have from mazingerz's posts.

 

[metoo4]

EB, Once more, seeing what you want, not what's written. Do I have to tell you the difference in English about "demand" and "ask"? Or the definition of "arrogance" is what escapes you? And did I bring the "bitch" word anywhere in the conversation? Why are you bringing this word up? Are you trying to get JAG against me by making her think I'm calling her an "arrogant bitch"? I would never call JAG an "arrogant bitch" because she's not arrogant and she's "juzt a girl", not a bitch, and that's the way we like her!

You have the right to request and suggest whatever you want to the Mods, it's just the way you always make your request, insisting, telling the mods to do their job, insinuating they don't know how to do it and telling them how it should be done, at every occasion you see can fit your agenda. That's what's getting annoying.

Did I say I was excluding anybody from the MERB team? Again, let's see what I said...

And also, your "team player" analogy is worthless and inapplicable: a team player not obeying the team's rules will affect the team. You not being able to read French affect nobody besides you and, you could remedy to this by ignoring French posts. The MERB team loose nothing with Mazingerz's french posts.

Maybe I need to be a little clearer and add the "sport" tag to the word team, in order to match more precisely your analogy. So... "

...a (SPORT) team player not obeying the (SPORT) team's rules will affect the (SPORT) team.

My guess was you knew MERB wasn't a sport team so, this was why I stated the analogy between MERB and a team was irrelevent, without specifying the "sport" tag. Here's where your analogy is irrelevent: in a football team, a member just standing in the middle of the field, trying to play golf, that would impair the team's ability to win. In MERB, a poster posting in French doesn't change ANYTHING to anybody's life, won't cause MERB to go belly-up and won't drive anybody away, unless some other peoples try to provoke reactions and start fights.

There are different types of "teams" and they all follow specific rules who allow them to function properly. There's no need for rules on things that don't impair the working of THIS team. Can it be possible some players would like to see rules for things they think is a problem? Absolutely! Can these players be important players who contribute a lot? You bet! But there's no point for the "team managers" to raise such rules if they don't see a need for the good of the team. Would you see the Red Sox passing a rule banning red boxers underwear because one of the player get excited when he see some? I don't think so...

And paying to be here doesn't put anybody above the rules and doesn't give any management rights, not that you would implicate this ever, right? True, you never wrote that but, if you can read between the lines at will, why shouldn't I be able to?

I can add at the end of my above quote: ...and the MERB board waste a lot of storage/bandwith with the sterile discussions raised by some peoples who's only goal in this topic are to raise shit instead of just ignoring something that isn't a problem if left ignored.

 

[eastender]

Largest Group Hug

Wow,

If it goes on at the next GT we will see Tony and ...... hugging each other MERB will stand for Montreal Escort Renewed Brotherhood

I could see it - the world's largest group hug featuring all the multiple handles ever yet small enough to fit in a phone booth.

 

[eastender]

Team Player

Certainly that is a valid way of dealing with the situation. But we also have to ask the Mods that if we have someone who is on so many ignore lists and is a well established troublemaker, why don't they just save us the time and ban him. This rationale was used by the Mods to ban other troublemakers, when those troublemakers claimed in their defense that those who did not like what was being said could use the ignore function. Robertpal argued this defense very vigorously and I would say perhaps even convincingly, but he was banned nevertheless.

Once again, as I said earlier in the thread, this IS NOT A LANGUAGE ISSUE. It would be a language issue only if mazingerz was incapable of posting in English which is not the case and was already proven not to be the case. HE IS CAPABLE OF TRANSLATING HIS OWN POSTS INTO ENGLISH BUT REFUSES TO DO SO, EVEN WHEN ASKED.

The issue is that mazingerz is not a team player. As I already said and have told the Mods numerous times, when someone proves they are not a team player, you first bench that player, then you suspend him, and then if his attitude still does not change, you kick him off the team. I already gave the example of the basketball player who decides to launch a 25 foot jumpshot when he has a teammate wide open underneath the basket for an uncontested layup. This is exactly what mazingerz is doing: he is launching the 25 foot jumper instead of making the pass to a teammate for the easy layup. And in that situation you bench the player. If you don't bench the player other players on the team start behaving the same way, in their own self interest, and you soon lose control of the team. I suspect that this is exactly what mazingerz wants - a rebellion, revolution, anarchy and overthrow of the Mods. A modern French revolution if you will.

So it is apparent to me that the Mods should at this point suspend mazingerz for a period of 30 days and allow him to decide whether or not he wants to be a part of the team of whether he wants to go and be on a different board. This community has clearly rejected him and has rejected his attempts to bring his own political interests into his posting acumen which have no place on this Board. This Board is about exchanging information related to the escort business, it is not a political board, and it's not about making individualistic, self serving political statements. I again call on the Mods to do their duty.

EB

I understand your analogy and your position but it is not applicable in this situation.

The concept of a team player is an individual who subordinates himself for the good of the team. The value of such a player is more evident when you have examples of more talented players on other teams who are selfish with the ensuing result that their team underachieves.

The nature of teams or groups or boards is that such individuals are handy as counter examples. It creates a greater appreciation for those who go a bit beyond what is expected.