Bernie Sanders took Americans to Canada to prove a point

[azzaro]

*******************


Wow....now I am really glad I live in Canada....!!!

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...rs-canada-medicare-for-all-drug-price-insulin

 

[jalimon]

Again a situation where in Canada we have much stricter law to regulate zealous corporatism. Not sure about that term but it means when a corporation forget ALL common and human sense in the name of fucking everyone to put more money down their pocket (the managers, the board and investors). Creating a spiral chain where people can no longer buy it and/or insurance company raising their cover... Either way putting people at medical risk of being even more sick and costing ever more to the society. Remember the EpiPen scandal by Mylan last year when they raised from below 100 to 600$ (perfectly knowing they had a quasi monopoly...).

I hate greedy, money at all cost, capitalism... It benefit a few rich arrogant class of society and all the rest becomes poorer and poorer...

Cheers,

 

[Bred Sob]

I agree, it is really a great idea that Bernie Sanders took a trip to Canada. The only problem is that he regrettably decided to come back home.

 

[donbusch]

There’s no way to spin the insulin crisis as a positive for the drug companies or US healthcare system. One has to be a hardened cynical free market advocate to not be outraged by what’s happening.

Insulin has been around for almost a hundred years so what patents r we really talking about? Manufacturing cost is like a few dollars per vial.

Vox article:

When inventor Frederick Banting discovered insulin in 1923, he refused to put his name on the patent. He felt it was unethical for a doctor to profit from a discovery that would save lives. Banting’s co-inventors, James Collip and Charles Best, sold the insulin patent to the University of Toronto for a mere $1. They wanted everyone who needed their medication to be able to afford it.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&sou...aw1aLa7xpkdLHwF8CiJgc0Ik&ust=1564636802095267

 

[Carmine Falcone]

DonBusch, I'm glad you mentioned patents and insulin. For those who think pharmaceutical companies aren't greedy, they are maintaining profitability by applying for new patents for existing drugs, not new ones. As a result, some drugs take longer to become generic and the original drug maker remains the main producer of that drug. One drug maker even went as far as transferring patent rights to a Native American tribe in NY. Native American tribes are sovereign and as such, it'd be unsuccessful if generic manufacturers tried to challenge the original pharmaceutical companies in patent court.

Extending patents is only one of the tricks pharmaceutical companies use to extend profitability and charge consumers more. A big difference between the US and other countries where healthcare is less expensive is price control for drugs and medical procedures.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...Vaw1mNFGTA4C1yd78SMcULzmT&cshid=1564560924664

 

[hungry101]

I don't believe it. You have to show novelty to have a patent. I doubt that they are patenting the same thing. Maybe the problem is with the patent office but I highly doubt it. Take it from a guy that has some experience. There is no way that they are patenting the same thing. No way in hell! If it got through the patent office the other companies would challenge it claiming prior art.

US pharmaceutical companies spend $2.6 Billion on R&D. Do you think that any of these drugs would be developed if there was no incentive of profit? Do you know how much it costs to get a new drug registered? How about a new preservative, disinfectant, or just a new chemical of any kind? Governments are making it almost impossible to develop commercialize anything new. You finally pass all the hurdles and develop something and then China uses your patent as a blueprint to violate your patent and copy what you have done.

One interesting thing is that I know a couple that just retired. They travel to Canada to fill their scripts. Pharmacies have Dr's on site. I considered using this as an excuse to drive towards Toronto to see escorts to satisfy the ever increasing questions I am getting from border guards. Get my statins and then see a few girls. I guess when life gives you lemons make lemonade.

 

[GaryH]

I work in the Healthcare industry in the U.S. Hungry's explanation nails it. If you want new drugs you need to spend billions of dollars on R&D. To get people to invest their money in this R&D you need the potential for profit. Why invest a million dollars in R&D for a new drug if you can invest somewhere else and make a higher profit?

Here is an analogy from Craig Garthwaite, a professor at Kellogg School of Management who studies drug prices. "Think about a venture capitalist who is deciding whether to invest $10 million in a social media app or a cure for pancreatic cancer. As you decrease the potential profits I’m going to make from pancreatic cures, I’m going to shift more of my investment over to apps or just keep the money in the bank and earn the money I make there.” There is money for research and development because there are high profits to be made. Take away the potential for high profits and there will be less money for R&D.

The second problem is when a U.S. company wants to sell this drug to a foreign country. These foreign countries' Regulatory agencies can decline the drug or dictate a lower price that they will pay. If the U.S. companies accept, then this will change the price point for the U.S., driving the cost up in the U.S. So in fact, the U.S. is subsidizing the rest of the world (once again).

The OP seems to be on a recent anti-U.S. rant. I think we need a good Canadian to speak up for the U.S. LOL. I give you Gordon Sinclair from 1973:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ_okAgAUGE

 

[donbusch]

Insulin was discovered in 1923 and since then, the world’s big 3 insulin producers have extended their patents in the US via a process known as “Evergreening” whereby they make MINOR improvements to keep their patents valid.

Lets just approach this from a common sense approach. Medical patents typically last 20 years. Ask any US diabetic whether the insulin that he used in 1999 is any different from the one he uses now and it’s very likely to be zero difference.

The US is the only highly developed country that allows drug companies to abuse its citizens in such a blatant manner. How is it possible that the citizens of the world’s greatest nation have to forgo their dignity and break the law by going abroad to import life saving medication for themselves?

Yes, the US subsidizes drug R&D for the rest of the world. But not out of kindness but because its politicians have been bought by the drug companies. The US is the world’s largest market for the drug companies, that’s a huge bargaining chip. If US politicians cannot leverage that to get better drug prices then they must either be the world’s worst negotiators or simply corrupt.

 

[hungry101]

Insulin was discovered in 1923 and since then, the world’s big 3 insulin producers have extended their patents in the US via a process known as “Evergreening” whereby they make MINOR improvements to keep their patents valid.

Again, the US Patent office would reject it. Sounds like the problem is with the patent office but most likely this is BS from the NGOs. Bernie Sanders has never accomplished squat. He is like to 40 year old son that lives in the basement that doesn't pay any bills. The only thing he has created is a book of nonsense. Elect him and get ready. Here comes the next Venezuela.

If US politicians cannot leverage that to get better drug prices then they must either be the world’s worst negotiators or simply corrupt.

You sound like Donald Trump.

On a side note, How many of you are familiar with the Monsanto settlements and Glyphosates? The EPA toxicologists just completed extensive testing and have affirmed that it is not a carcinogen. But try to watch cable TV for an evening and count how many times you see the dirty, filthy, scumbag, pipsqueak lawyers on TV trying to get you to buy into their class action lawsuit against Monsanto. It is not a carcinogen so how can this be? These filthy lawpukes select a jury of your peers: A janitor, a phys ed teacher, the town drunk, an electrician, a plumber, a stay-at-home mom and they bring these sick people up that once used Round-up in their life and became ill at some point. The unqualified jury says Look at these poor sick people. Someone's got to help them so they go after the scary chemical company. There is no scientific rigor.

I am waiting for a scumsucker to try to outlaw Dihydrogen Monoxide. It kills people every year. Look it up.

 

[hungry101]

If there are low profits, how will talent be attracted to the industry? How will new and improved drugs be invented. It is said that the group that cures cancer will be an immediate multi-billionaire. Probably not if Bernie is involved.

Heath care is a marketplace. The price is determined by buyers and sellers. It is certainly a distorted marketplace, and no one can properly save for health care, so we have insurance. That insurance system was largely a failure, so we added Obamacare. I think I am pretty liberal and I support Obamacare. But Bernie choosing drug pricing with the support of a bunch of largely overweight people on a bus. No thanks

Look at Lasik eye surgery. The government stayed out of it and prices have dropped like a lead balloon.

 

[donbusch]

If the approach is truly unfettered free markets, then why are the drug companies allowed to abuse the US patent system via the ‘evergreening’ process?

Insulin from 1999 is almost the same as 2019 insulin so why have so many patents been granted to protect the big 3 insulin manufacturers?

Yes, free markets are essential but the drug market are clearly not an example of free markets. There are too many distortions caused by drug companies gaming the system hence the need to negotiate drug prices.

The 100% free market is a theoretical possibility only. In reality, all economies are mixed, the difference being to what extent.

When markets fail, the government steps in. For those ardent defenders of totally free markets, ask yourselves where you were during the Great Financial Crisis? The so-called free market advocates were literally begging the Federal government for a bailout and when the US$700 Billion Troubled Asset Relief Program passed into law, everyone happily became a socialist.

Of course, memories are short. Once again Big Government is an obstacle to progress and the free market advocates funded by big corporations are back in full force or at least till the next crisis & bailout.

 

[donbusch]

Again, the US Patent office would reject it. Sounds like the problem is with the patent office but most likely this is BS from the NGOs. Bernie Sanders has never accomplished squat. He is like to 40 year old son that lives in the basement that doesn't pay any bills. The only thing he has created is a book of nonsense. Elect him and get ready. Here comes the next Venezuela.

The US Patent Office simply follows US laws. Congress writes US laws to make it easy for drug companies to Evergreen their patents.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/new...people_with_diabetes_cant_buy_generic_insulin

For many years, Bernie Sanders was the only politician with the balls to expose the drug companies and health insurance companies for their corrupt practices. The rest of Congress was too busy begging for political contributions or high-paying jobs from a healthcare industry that viciously exploits consumers. Some of Bernie’s plans r impractical but he’s got my respect.

Trump occasionally makes good points but he has too many characters failings to properly follow through.

 

[jalimon]

The second problem is when a U.S. company wants to sell this drug to a foreign country. These foreign countries' Regulatory agencies can decline the drug or dictate a lower price that they will pay. If the U.S. companies accept, then this will change the price point for the U.S., driving the cost up in the U.S. So in fact, the U.S. is subsidizing the rest of the world (once again).

No. That only proves that you American have no problem to fuck you own siblings over cash If you had a bit more humanity you would take care of your own people.

 

[Carmine Falcone]

I don't believe it. You have to show novelty to have a patent. I doubt that they are patenting the same thing. Maybe the problem is with the patent office but I highly doubt it. Take it from a guy that has some experience. There is no way that they are patenting the same thing. No way in hell! If it got through the patent office the other companies would challenge it claiming prior art.

The active ingredient in most drugs is a small moiety and that ingredient is usually patented. The drug companies are extending patents by modifying off-patent molecules. These modifications don't always increase the efficacy or safety of the drug. They only serve to prolong the time frame of propriety. I'm strictly addressing patent abuse, not the other myriad ways drug companies extend their profits.

https://academic.oup.com/jlb/article/5/3/590/5232981

Drugs do cost a lot of money to get to market, but guess who subsidizes the pharmaceutical industry's R&D costs? That'd be the US government.

https://www.pnas.org/content/115/10/2329

Per the 2nd link, "This report shows that NIH funding contributed to published research associated with every one of the 210 new drugs approved by the Food and Drug Administration from 2010–2016. Collectively, this research involved >200,000 years of grant funding totaling more than $100 billion."

And I too currently work in healthcare and almost took a position with a pharmaceutical company a decade ago.

 

[Sol Tee Nutz]

Looks like the Americans will soon be able to purchase Canadian drugs bulk and bring them back to the US.

 

[donbusch]

See article:

The Trump administration says it will set up a system allowing Americans to legally access lower-cost prescription drugs from Canada.

The drug industry lobby says the Trump administration's plan to let Americans import cheaper prescription drugs from Canada is "far too dangerous."
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America says there's "no way to guarantee the safety of drugs" coming from outside the United States. It says in an emailed statement drugs coming through Canada could have originated anywhere and may not have been reviewed by the Food and Drug Administration.
It also says law enforcement has repeatedly warned that importation schemes could worsen the U.S. opioid crisis.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/latest-us-plan-prescription-drugs-canada-64677829

Read the above article carefully and it will become clear that the drug companies have a leadership culture that has no respect for human life. Every company has a duty to maximize profit but there are certain ethical lines that they do not cross. The drug companies obviously think that they r above it all.

The idea that Canada has poor standards in dispensing perscription drugs is ludicrous. In fact, most countries closely follow FDA guidelines.

And to equate the US opioid crisis w/ importing life saving medication is shameless, a huge part of the US opioid crisis has to do w/ doctors overprescribing pain medication, a practice highly encouraged & possibly instigated by the drug companies.

 

[Cruiser777]

How is it possible that the citizens of the world’s greatest nation

Greatest nation ???

Like the Greatest democracy ???
Where the looser of the votes counted, NOT majority of the citizens choice becomes president ??? *

I know I know its a nation with "Electoral Vote"system...(I used to live in the US).

Saw some news clips of Bernie Sanders with the American citizens who were more jubilant the 4th of July when they paid
$80.00 Canadian dollar for a bottle of insulin instead of $1000.00 US. (Once I paid $320.00 US for anti-bionics which used be $20.00 Can).


Maybe time to re-visit this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs


* But don't get me wrong, I "Love" Mr Trump, greatest entertaining president with some valid points and ideas I agree with.

Don't take everything seriously though, Just a Saturday morning "Sh..t disturbing" LOL

 

[donbusch]

Patron,

Walmart Human insulin is 1980s medical technology as stated in the article u posted. So u either didn’t read that or chose to ignore that fact. Yes, facts can suck.

Humalog, the first analog insulin was introduced in 1996. Medical patents last 20 years so Humalog’s patent should have expired in 2016.

The cost of production for a vial of human insulin has been estimated between $2.28 and $3.42, while the production cost for a vial of most analog insulins between $3.69 and $6.16

https://www.businessinsider.com/ins...akers-would-still-make-healthy-profits-2018-9

Without Evergreening analog insulin patents, how much would a vial of analog insulin retail at Walmart?