Montreal Escorts

Blacklist Attempt Last Week

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Stephen500

Member
Nov 28, 2019
49
6
8
New York City, New York
Last week, I visited Montreal for 8 days for the dual purpose of conducting professional business and sex tourism, and found myself the subject of a blacklist attempt. Although things worked out in the end, I felt my experience would be of interest to the broader merb community, so I write them up here. In the hopes of being constructive, I have inserted my observations or "lessons learned" in the post.

This post does NOT contain, nor is it intended to give, any advice, feedback or review on any provider. If you want my feedback on any individual providers, read my reviews, or PM me.

The attempt to blacklist me grew out of a date that was to happen on my first night in Montreal. The woman with whom I had originally booked, weeks prior, wasn't feeling well and contacted me to cancel on the day of the booking. The cancelling provider offered to arrange a last-minute date for me with her friend. I did some quick research on the friend and found a few mixed reviews on merb, although the negative aspects of those reviews were pretty vague. I tried to book a substitute on my own, but I was literally getting onto a plane late on Saturday afternoon looking for a Saturday night date, so it was difficult. I ultimately agreed to meet with the offered substitute as the "airplane mode" announcement was made.

LESSON LEARNED: Merb reviews are there for several important reasons, including to raise potential issues with providers. Ignore them at your peril! Moreover, unlike (say) a Yelp review--where vagueness is often a clue the review is unreliable--vague negativity in a merb review can be a signal of a serious problem and should not be lightly disregarded.

I has decided before arriving in Montreal that I would start every date by first spending some time in a social setting, and then wrapping up by stating: "I want to speak briefly about limits and consent. I don't want to make you uncomfortable with anything I do. You can tell me at any time if you are not enjoying what we are doing, or uncomfortable. If there are any limits you are sure you want to apply to our time together, please tell them to me now rather than having me stumble into the."

I followed this plan with the substitute provider on my first night, but she refused to tell me about her limits. Ironically, I am a lawyer whose job it is to question people doggedly until I get satisfactory answers. But in this context, I accepted the non-answer, to my later regret.

LESSON LEARNED: I should have taken the provider's refusal to discuss limits as a warning sign. Understanding, communicating and respecting limits is a critical, essential, indispensable part of any encounter with a sex worker. I was thinking with my dick at that point and I foolishly let it go.

LESSON LEARNED: On the other hand, my practice of requesting a limits discussion before the encounter was a good one, because subsequent providers I met with interpreted it (accurately) as a sign of my genuine concern and respect for their well-being and their limits. This led most of those subsequent providers to keep an open mind when attempts were made to enlist them in the blacklist campaign. (And, of course, quite aside from the need to defend oneself against possible future blacklisting, it is always a good idea to have these discussions between client and provider, particularly a first-time encounter.)

The session with the substitute was not positive, neither for me, nor (as I only learned later) for her. I rebooked with the original provider, and as we were rebooking she asked me how the date with the substitute went. Because I have seen on merb and elsewhere how quickly negative feedback about a provider can spin out of control, I felt it would be a mistake to put anything in writing. Plus, I did not feel like it was a horrible session, just a bad one. So in response to the request for a report on the substitute, I told the original provider "let's discuss it in person" when we got on the rebooked date.

LESSON LEARNED: Communication in writing is tricky! At the time I thought I was being discreet, but it appears my "let's discuss in person" was taken to mean it was a bad session. Most likely, this led the original provider to ask the substitute about the session, and the substitute gave an extremely negative review of me including several statements that (as far as I am privy to them, which is not much) were (in my opinion) completely inaccurate, describing my behavior during the session. In retrospect, had I just said "fine" or even not responded to the inquiry about how the session went, perhaps the whole blow-up might not have happened. By making the laden statement "let's discuss it in person," I signaled something was up, and created the circumstances for the substitute provider to say whatever she felt like saying.

Following that first session the night of my arrival, I had several more sessions, most of which were (for me) quite positive. I made sure to tip the providers I had enjoyed spending time with, and asked their permission to write merb reviews of the sessions, which they gladly gave.

LESSON LEARNED: IMO, tipping for good service is mandatory. I also am glad I took the advice I have read on merb that a provider's permission should be obtained before posting a review of a session with her (I'm talking about permission to post, not a "line-item veto" that allows the provider to essentially ghost-write the review--something which no provider asked me for, anyway). If a provider gives permission to the client to write up the session, it confirms that the provider was comfortable with the session as well.

By the third day of my visit, I had seen six providers, and had enjoyed four of the sessions. I had the impression those four session were mutually enjoyed, turns out it was only three.

LESSON LEARNED: Like a kid in a candy shop in the newly discovery wonderland of Montreal, I booked way too many sessions! As a result, I was struggling to climax as time went on, which (I learned) was irritating some of the providers. I also wasn't giving myself myself enough time to reflect carefully on how the sessions were going. I would definitely not do this again.

Once negative feedback about me was put in writing and shared in the SW community, things moved very fast. My next two dates were cancelled immediately, for ostensibly neutral reasons. The rest of the sessions I had booked (all independent bookings) were no-shows. When I tried to book through agencies, I was told I am a "bad client" and would not be booked. Then I saw the blacklist announcement against me, publicly broadcast on Twitter to providers in "Montreal and surroundings," stating:

"***BLACKLIST MONTREAL & SURROUNDINGS*** There is someone booking many SWers here right now and has already disrespected and pushed limits of some. DM me for info."

Upon learning of the blacklist attempt, I spoke with several of the providers I had already seen, and asked for their insight. They were aware of the blacklist, had been asked their views of me, and they had given their honest opinions. None of them said as much, but I surmised that there was SW peer pressure on providers with positive opinions of me to repudiate them and join the blacklist effort. When this pressure failed, he blacklist organizers adapted their narrative, as follows:

"Here's his game: first he plays by the book, acts politely, gives all of his personal info and even references. Some escorts he has been nice to but with others he has been very aggressive [omitted here are characterizations of my behavior during sessions with providers that IMO are 100% inaccurate]....and then gaslighting--telling her she is giving bad service by not obeying and acquiescing to all his demands and forcefulness."

"His intent is to cause harm to some and be nice to others so that he can maintain a good rep and he can keep getting away with his abusiveness."

LESSON LEARNED: My dealings with numerous providers during the screening, booking and (as applicable) deposit process, during the "get to know you" and "tell me your limits" exchanges I spent with each provider at the beginning of each date, in how I handled the issue of limits during the sessions, to the best of my ability, and in my tipping and merb reviews for positive experiences, earned respect and goodwill from most of the people I was dealing with. It's the only way to go!

LESSON LEARNED: I believe the harshness of the blacklist effort stemmed in part from the recent SWer murders in Montreal. The Montreal SW community is on high alert (and rightfully so) for any signs of dangerous or abusive clients. Behavior that might have landed a client on the "personal graylist" of a provider before these deaths, may now result in that client being blacklisted with a baseless ascription to the client of an "intent is to cause harm." The best way for clients to deal with this is to support Stella and the Montreal SW community in their efforts to end violence against SWers.

LESSON LEARNED: Providers may not enforce, mention, or even understand their limits during a session, may give little or no (and certainly in my case, no explicit) indication that they feel their limits are being pushed, and nonetheless feel violated after the session. The best way to avoid this IMO is to stick with experienced providers who understand the nature of sex work, know their limits, and have mature judgement.

Upon seeing the tweet above calling for a blacklist of me in "Montreal and surroundings," I tweeted in reply--sarcastically--"Wow, an APB." (Meaning "All Points Bulletin," which in old TV cop dramas is the announcement cops would make for a citywide dragnet to catch a known and dangerous and criminal). I felt like I was being unfairly treated like a criminal when I saw the blacklist tweet, and it pissed me off. I let loose that a sarcastic three-word reply tweet. Also, when the original provider for my first night cancelled on me and refused to say why (before I knew it was the leading edge of the blacklist), I sent her an email explaining what had gone wrong in the session with the substitute. I wanted to give her my side of the story once I surmised that I had been criticized by the substitute.

LESSON LEARNED: My three-word tweet was seized upon by the blacklist organizers, who (reportedly) claimed that it was an admission (it wasn't) that I had done something criminal (I hadn't) that would justify law enforcement attention! I heard there was serious discussion in the SW community as to whether there should be a criminal complaint made against me to the police, based on the claims underlying the blacklist effort (which, even in their most grotesquely exaggerated form, never amounted to conduct that would justify criminal charges). I wish I had never made that tweet! And I wish I had not emailed the original first-night provider to explain in my view went wrong with the substitute. That email may have been cathartic for me, but I am sure it was used (probably in edited or altered form) to fuel the blacklist effort.

Once I knew I had been blacklisted, rather than try to dispute the (IMO false) rumors against me, I emailed the many women with whom I had future (pre-booked) dates, advising them of the blacklisting effort. I sent this email even to providers who had re-confirmed the date with me after the blacklist was announced, because I know that not all of the providers were on twitter, merb or other social media platforms on which the blacklist campaign was being waged. My email to these providers stated that I disagreed with the allegations against me, but that I understood (particularly in light of the recent SW murders) that they might feel that the right choice would be to cancel our date. Some did cancel, but others did their own research and kept the date.

LESSON LEARNED: Honesty and transparency are the best policy. If people are hating on you behind your back, the best response is to just show your positivity.
(Continued Below)
 

Stephen500

Member
Nov 28, 2019
49
6
8
New York City, New York
(Continued from OP above)

One of the most frustrating things about being blacklisted was that most of the cancelling providers did not actually cancel their dates with me (something I requested them to do in my email to them described immediately above), but rather simply no-showed/no-called on me. I did not want to preemptively cancel on these women because I had pre-booked with them. So I ended up had to showering, shaving, getting the envelope together, etc., only to wait and then be stood up.

LESSON LEARNED: In retrospect, I should have told the pro-booked providers that I would consider the dates with them cancelled unless I heard from them to the contrary. I did not include a statement like this in the post-blacklist email I sent, fearing it would push some providers to cancel me even if they had not felt so inclined. As I should have anticipated, the providers who decided not to blacklist me re-confirmed the dates. I should have just cancelled the providers who did not respond to my email.

LESSON LEARNED: Don't no-show/no-call providers! It is a really crappy thing to do, and it makes the person stood up feel like shit. (Most) providers know this better than anyone. Likely, the providers were told by the blacklist organizers not to engage with me in any way (given their premise that I was dangerous, abusive and manipulative). I get why they would think this, but it would not have been difficult or problematic for the providers to send a two-word text or email stating "date cancelled." In fact, if I was the kind of dangerous, abusive, manipulative character that the blacklist organizers made me out to be (thank God I am not), burying me in an avalanche of no-shows might have pushed me over the edge! For everyone's safety, blacklist organizers should consider whether a no-show/no-call policy is really the right response to a character believed to be a bad actor, as opposed to having the blacklist organizers give their target a list of women who are cancelling dates, with a warning to not attempt to contact any of the women. I would think that would be a better approach in terms of protecting women from further engagement with the putative bad actor (the "united front" would be daunting), without inflicting unnecessary harm on him.

LESSON LEARNED: I have considered the possibility that the reason for the no-show/no call policy was to keep me from rebooking with new providers (since the blacklist organizers were convinced of the correctness of their position and believed that their effort was saving other providers from the dangers of being "tricked" into booking with me). I hope that is not the case. If it is, the blacklist organizers should consider that the no-show/no-call policy against me meant that I left Montreal with lots of unspent cash that I would have rather used for substitute sessions with the many awesome providers who did not blacklist me.

* * * *
As described in (admittedly excessive) detail in some of my merb reviews from the trip recounted above (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 ), I came to Montreal hoping to explore a renowned sex scene that had somehow escaped my notice, and to explore my sexual and emotional desires after a 36 year marriage that ended last summer. I never could have anticipated becoming public enemy #1 in the eyes of at least some! On the other hand, now that I'm back home, I realize that this bizarre blacklist experience gave me unique insight into the Montreal sex scene and I suffered no lasting harm. I can only thank the many women who were willing to think for themselves, act in a fair way, and to graciously help me through a difficult experience. I hope this post and its "lessons learned" will be helpful or at least interesting to read for clients (who might end up the target of a blacklist effort themselves) and providers (who unfortunately, due to all the danger and shit that is dumped on every SWs, have to consider tools like blacklisting to keep themselves safe). I think it was the incredible diversity and richness of the Montreal SW community for me to be able to handle the situation and still have a good time despite everything that happened.



I will conclude this report as if it were a session review.



"Montreal: repeat? Absolutely!"
 

Sol Tee Nutz

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2012
7,694
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Look behind you.
Stopped reading after paragraph 3.

I had an escort ask me my restrictions once, told her nothing that includes fire and no objects in my bung hole larger than a finger..
 
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CaptRenault

A poor corrupt official
Jun 29, 2003
2,104
948
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Casablanca
...I has decided before arriving in Montreal that I would start every date by first spending some time in a social setting, and then wrapping up by stating: "I want to speak briefly about limits and consent. I don't want to make you uncomfortable with anything I do...If there are any limits you are sure you want to apply to our time together, please tell them to me now rather than having me stumble into the."

I followed this plan with the substitute provider on my first night, but she refused to tell me about her limits. Ironically, I am a lawyer whose job it is to question people doggedly until I get satisfactory answers. But in this context, I accepted the non-answer, to my later regret...

If the discussion of limits was so important to you, and yet you and the girl couldn't agree to discuss the topic of limits, then you should have paid her for one hour and ended the session. Sometimes it's best to cut your losses.

Furthermore, since it was your first night in town and you would be there for 8 days, it would have been better to just skip seeing someone for the first night when your date cancelled. It's not a good idea to try to squeeze in as many encounters as possible during a trip, especially when you are just getting to know the city and the escort scene. You don't live far from Montreal-you can easily go back.

Also, after reading one of your reviews, I see that you enjoy some rather esoteric role play scenarios. You can't assume that a girl with whom you arranged a last minute encounter will share your enthusiasm for the same kind of role playing that you enjoy.
 
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jalimon

I am addicted member
Dec 28, 2015
6,268
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I feel like STN here... its just too long a thing to read not to think something’s wrong...

I say to the girl if you don’t like something i do you say “rouge” (red) and i swear i’ll stop whatever i’m doing. Peanuts...
 

rosedelacourt

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
204
326
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Is there a way to find out if you've been blacklisted? Beside people refusing to book you that is

That would defeat the purpose... so no. Also, the providers in question are currently on vacation, which seems rather convenient as to timing of this post. I think both sides should be heard here.
 

2fast2slow

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
2,363
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discussing limits before an encounter would be a red flag to me...my limits vary depending on who i would be with, if you know what i mean. Too complicated!

Meet the girl in person first, start with a more 'normal' date, then start exploring from there...trying to pin down services without the provider having even seen you or met you at least once is not fair to them as far as i am conncerned.

I realize you may only be here for a week, but that is plenty of time to make some good connnections.

Look, maybe you feel you were unfairly blacklisted, and i could understand how that hurts, but either way, you made someone feel uncomfortable enough that they felt it pertinent to do so.
 

rosedelacourt

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
204
326
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2fast2slow, I absolutely agree with you. I think it's safe to say that we've all had sex before. One can usually tell if the other person is in pain, having a hard time, is uncomfortable. Forcing providers to do services they don't offer (that have not been mentioned in reviews, that are also not standard in GFE) is blacklist material. Of course each girl can decide for herself what risk she wants to expose herself to / what she can handle. We don't all like the same bookings/clients.
 

cloudsurf

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2003
4,946
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Is there a way to find out if you've been blacklisted? Beside people refusing to book you that is

I wouldn`t call it a blacklist and more of a boycott by some of the ex-Unicorn Ladies and their friends on twitter. To make a fuss about it may backfire for the OP.
 

rosedelacourt

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
204
326
63
I wouldn`t call it a blacklist and more of a boycott by some of the ex-Unicorn Ladies and their friends on twitter. To make a fuss about it may backfire for the OP.

The purpose of blacklists/greylists is the warn each other about undesired behaviours. IN ORDER TO STAY SANE/SAFE. Sex workers get killed, raped, manipulated, etc all the time. It is the ONLY recourse we have to keep each other safe. Calling it a boycott is simply not true. We share the info, then each girl takes her decision based on the info. It's the same for reviews, but for clients.
 

hungry101

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2007
5,857
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What's the difference between a blacklist and a greylist?
 

cloudsurf

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2003
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Rose, he calls it a " blacklist attempt" so we can`t tell that he was actually blacklisted . He certainly was ghosted and boycotted by several women who I presume were concerned after getting dm`s on twitter about him.
 

rosedelacourt

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2015
204
326
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He was absolutely blacklisted. No ifs or buts about that.

Greylist would be someone who insults a provider, isn't clean, wasted her time, no showed, etc.

Blacklist would be someone who is violent, removes the condom, etc.

Both of course are one person's opinion, girls then make up their own mind. I've had fantastic dates with clients who I've come to learn were blacklisted. One doesn't always behave the same way depending on the provider.
 

hungry101

Well-Known Member
Oct 29, 2007
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But there is also an advertiser's only section of MERB where providers can report a bad client and we cannot see that, correct?
 

2fast2slow

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-vigil-east-end-stella-1.5453801

I'm sorry but there was a alleged murder less than two weeks ago in Montreal.

From the article you sent:

The body of Vanessa Primeau was found in a burning garage on Jan. 23 in Montreal's east end. Police say they consider the death suspicious and are investigating.

But Thérèse and her family say they don't believe her daughter's death was an accident, and want police to investigate it as a homicide.

"I really believe it was a murder," said Jonathan, one of Vanessa's brothers.

Thérèse described Vanessa as a vulnerable young woman, who struggled with mental health issues and substance use. She said police have so far only shared scant details of their investigation with the family.

I'm sorry Rose, according to this article is not a clear homicide of a sex worker (yet). Whereas the case in QC City a few weeks ago is. I did not like the way Stephen500 casually wrote 'recent murders of SWers in Montreal', as if there has been a string of multiple murders in recent months, which, I'm pretty sure is NOT the case (he being supposedly a lawyer should be more careful about such a statement). That was my point, and I still beleive his statement to be factually wrong.
 
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