Castro is Dead
- Thread starter westwoody
- Start date
Jalimon, I quoted you, just to make sure that people will understand my next comment: I don't want to take any political position, so, for me to tell Castro was good or bad, isn't at all in my intentions.
I respect your opinion, I believe in the liberty of expression.
But, and I have a big but (no put intended... hihihi) books are written with the personal beliefs of their authors, and their own views.
I just don't believe or trust totally "opinions" because they are always missing "points". Everything is a matter of shade of greys in life generally speaking.
Or just of shade, like this image:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/eb/1c/36/eb1c3687a5469d7a504189ffc28ada71.jpg
"love the people". :kiss: You're so adorable. :love:
Hey, we all still love you. But you have to admit you saying "fuck Communism" then saying you go to Cuba and asked the ladies if they hate Castro before you banged them was cuter than a whole truck load of itsy bitsy cutesy wutesy kittens.
That's the way to keep you penis Red, White, and Blue...errrrrrr...Red and White. BTW...thanks for giving me a way to bang lady T-perv voters. I owe you one.
Cheers
As much as I am a anti conservative and anti Capitalism I cannot agree with this. I would compare Castro more to the likes of Stalin or Mussolini. These were dictators that oppressed its citizens. Hitler was another one of them to the ultra-right wing. Extreme of either wing leads to the suppression of freedom.
The same thing can be said about America... The government and people if they had the will they could stop the control and oppression of the people by the corporations. Capitalism has many flaws it lead to Corporatism.
Not on Topic but linked
A friend who lives in Cuba and has married a Cuban Girl sent me this
Castro Dies
When he gets to the pearly gates Saint Peter says "I'm sorry Castro, but you have to go down to hell." SO castro goes down to hell, and when he gets there the devil greets him and says "Oh we're so glad to have you. Welcome, welcome." A few minutes later Castro says "I forgot my suitcases in heaven." So the devil says "Oh, no problem, I'll send some of my minions to fetch it for you." So when the 2 minions get to heaven they see that Saint Peter is out to lunch and the gates are closed with the suitcases just on the other side. So they decide to climb the fence. Just as they start climbing Saint Peter comes back and sees them so he says "Good God! Castro is in hell for 10 minutes and we already have refugees."
A friend who lives in Cuba and has married a Cuban Girl sent me this
Castro Dies
When he gets to the pearly gates Saint Peter says "I'm sorry Castro, but you have to go down to hell." SO castro goes down to hell, and when he gets there the devil greets him and says "Oh we're so glad to have you. Welcome, welcome." A few minutes later Castro says "I forgot my suitcases in heaven." So the devil says "Oh, no problem, I'll send some of my minions to fetch it for you." So when the 2 minions get to heaven they see that Saint Peter is out to lunch and the gates are closed with the suitcases just on the other side. So they decide to climb the fence. Just as they start climbing Saint Peter comes back and sees them so he says "Good God! Castro is in hell for 10 minutes and we already have refugees."
That is ok! I do like generous behind
Yes that is totally true. But down the road I think books are generally better to make good opinion as opposed to only the media or the general press. I still stand by what I wrote about him. I do listen to what other people say and think, but in that regards and up to now, I agree with me
Cheers,
Very well said Cloud 500. At least in NA we can argue without being carted away in the middle of the night.
Not yet, but this may change once Donald Trump takes over as President and gets to deport everyone he dislikes. It's no big secret that many of the people he idolizes just happen to be dictators such as Putin, Saddam, Ghadafi and others. He promised his supporters he'd deport, so my guess is that he will. So if you or anyone else starts hearing knocking in the middle of the night.....
Beware, beware, beware....
If I had gone to Cuba many times for business or pleasure I would have said I went there because I had to or wanted to and since I was there I decided to make the most of it and had a good time. Or I just wanted to go. Trying some kind of justification by saying: "besides all the women I`ve slept with despised Fidel and his state police that made their lives miserable" was a completely pointless (to be very gentle) attempt at rationalizing. You went. You had a good time. No more justification needed.
It's not like the people who accused Clinton of crimes against humanity, or Rump of being a dangerous unbalanced threat are going to leave the country no matter who got to be in charge. No hollow rationalization necessary. No difference for you going to Cuba. Just own it.
Last edited:
Yes that is totally true. But down the road I think books are generally better to make good opinion as opposed to only the media or the general press. I still stand by what I wrote about him. I do listen to what other people say and think, but in that regards and up to now, I agree with me
For my part, I think you have to be living in a country many weeks/months (not only one week vacationing in an all included
) to feel & know exactly what it is going on. For what I could understand, Castro has been a very good and a very bad person, in different times, with different people. A little anecdote: Someone of my family has been to Cuba as a girls only trip, and Cuban people just took her as an ordinary tourist, and they stop using their ordinary speech that they "are living in the best country in the world" and they started to talk of some problems between themselves in Spanish in front of her.... and they have the surprise of their lives, when after a long while, she decided to participate in the conversation, fluently speaking Spanish. I know at that time she made that trip, existed directives/coercition/obligation to show to tourists they were happy, and there was army everywhere.
I always feel like exploiting the misery of others when I did go in tourists places like that. But the other part is, we are helping those sunny countries with the money we are bringing. I have a moral dilemma with that, to say the truth.
Now that Castro is dead, I wonder if this will really change something drastically, or business will continue as usual like everything else. I hope the population will be less suffering, whatever was the reason.
You know Passionne that this is not the first time that you have miss understood what I had written or have misquoted me.
Show me where I wrote that I checked the ladies opinion on Castro before seeing them. Total nonsense.
I initially went to Cuba on business and while there I couldn`t believe how many women would approach me to offer their services, in exchange for a meal date or a few dollars....even for a marriage proposal. Most of the women who approached me told me how they hated life under Castro and wanted to leave. I didn`t ask them for their opinion on the government, They volunteered that information.... and begged me to help them out.
Now go away and don`t bother me. I really dislike you.
Show me where I wrote that I checked the ladies opinion on Castro before seeing them. Total nonsense.
I initially went to Cuba on business and while there I couldn`t believe how many women would approach me to offer their services, in exchange for a meal date or a few dollars....even for a marriage proposal. Most of the women who approached me told me how they hated life under Castro and wanted to leave. I didn`t ask them for their opinion on the government, They volunteered that information.... and begged me to help them out.
Now go away and don`t bother me. I really dislike you.
I just read an interesting article:
Fidel Castro’s Horrific Record on Gay Rights
Concentration camps for gays. Political prisons where they were treated like ‘beasts.’ Listen up, liberals: Before you go celebrating the life of Castro, remember his victims.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/27/don-t-forget-fidel-castro-s-brutal-oppression-of-gay-people.html
Fidel Castro’s Horrific Record on Gay Rights
Concentration camps for gays. Political prisons where they were treated like ‘beasts.’ Listen up, liberals: Before you go celebrating the life of Castro, remember his victims.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/27/don-t-forget-fidel-castro-s-brutal-oppression-of-gay-people.html
What makes you think he can't make up the definition of 'illegals' as he sees fit? Trump wants to be a dictator just like the many he idolizes. If he deems you an enemy, he will have you deported or worse. The Donald's reign-of-terror hasn't yet begun, but it'll happen. Beware, beware, beware!
Now back to Fidel Castro. The legend. The powerful leader. The brilliant mastermind. Love him or hate him, but give him credit: he changed history and left his mark. Hail El Presidente! :thumb:
Yeah but this is what happened to Mussolini:
http://www.custermen.com/ItalyWW2/ILDUCE/Mussolini.htm
Castro died a much more peaceful death and dodged attempts at his life like those shown above.
It's interesting to compare the wildly different reactions of Justin Trudeau and Donald Trump to the death of the brutal dictator Fidel Castro. I agree with Trump rather than Trudeau. Though for the record, I didn't like Trump saying anything nice about Putin and I do support Obama's opening of Cuba to American travelers and business. I think that in the long run it's the best way to rid Cuba of its communist dictatorship.
However, the opinions of Trudeau and Trump about Castro don't matter much in the big scheme of things. We should pay more attention to the opinions of Castro's victims such as the Cuban dissident, José Daniel Ferrer, who is profiled in this column by Wall Street Journal columnist Bret Stephens.
Fidel’s Legacy—A Dissident’s View
A survivor of Cuba’s own Gitmo has a word for those mourning the late dictator.
wsj.com
By Bret Stephens
Nov. 28, 2016
To Justin Trudeau, Canada’s puerile prime minister, he was a “legendary revolutionary” who “made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.” To Jeremy Corbyn, leader of Britain’s Labour Party, he “will be remembered both as an internationalist and a champion of social justice.” To Michael Higgins, president of Ireland, he was a tribune “for all of the oppressed and excluded peoples on the planet.”
And for Barack Obama, still president of the United States, he was a “singular figure” whose “enormous impact” would be recorded and judged by history.
Global reaction to Fidel Castro’s death has been instructive. Donald Trump minced no words: “Fidel Castro is dead!” he tweeted delightedly. By contrast, the progressive left hailed the dictator as a liberator for the ages, while conventional liberals treated him as complex character whose 57-year reign was less a testament to his brutal methods than to his charismatic appeal.
Castro “held on to power longer than any other living national leader except Queen Elizabeth II,” noted the New York Times in its obituary. It’s an intriguing comparison—except that one of those leaders shot pheasants, while the other shot peasants.
For a different view of Castro’s legacy I turned to José Daniel Ferrer. The 46-year-old leads the Cuban Patriotic Union, one of the island’s largest dissident organizations, which he founded after spending eight years in Castro’s prisons, including a stint in Cuba’s own maximum security prisió n provincial in Guantanamo. He spurned a government offer to exile him to Spain after his 2011 release, and since then he has led a dangerous battle against a regime determined to neutralize him. Václav Havel is one of his moral and political inspirations.
When I first met Mr. Ferrer in person in May, he spent much of the time detailing Cuban prison conditions. Wardens in lower-security prisons use inmates as de facto slave laborers in agriculture or construction gangs. Inmates in maximum-security prisons are stuffed into tiny cells and allowed an hour of sunlight a day. Political prisoners “face constant terrors,” including threats to their families. Beatings and torture are routine. “A prisoner has a bad molar. He complains. He gets beaten up. No medical attention.”
As for the Cuban Guantanamo, I asked Mr. Ferrer how he thought it compared with its better-known counterpart at the nearby U.S. naval station. He dismissed the American Gitmo as un jardín de niños—a kindergarten—next to its Cuban sibling.
On Sunday I followed up with Mr. Ferrer via email. He seems almost amused by the hosannas being showered on his former jailer by the West’s self-styled human-rights champions. “I’d just remind them they aren’t the first democratic leaders to eulogize a tyrant,” he writes, recalling progressive tears for Stalin and Mao. “Oppression, prison, misery and continuous exile was what Castroism brought us. I’m sure neither Corbyn nor Trudeau would ever want a ‘champion’ like Fidel Castro to lead their own people.”
Mr. Ferrer adds that the regime has shown no signs of letting up its repression, never mind Mr. Obama’s diplomatic opening. Ten of his organization’s regional directors have been jailed in the past six months. Fellow activists have grown accustomed to having their homes robbed and their equipment stolen.
“Raúl Castro is going to augment the controls and the repression, for fear of his brother’s absence as the central symbol of tyranny,” he predicts. “Raúl will continue to delay the process of opening up the economy, and the misery will continue.”
That view contradicts the optimistic belief that “modernizers” in the regime will move fast to relax government controls now that Fidel is gone. Like the Kims of North Korea, the Castro family is in the business of staying in power. It won’t tolerate an economic opening that undermines its political grip.
Still, Mr. Ferrer ticks off a list of factors—Fidel’s death, a restive population, an increasingly well-organized dissident movement, economic chaos in Venezuela, the collapse of left-wing governments in Argentina and Brazil—that have left the regime acutely susceptible to external pressure. His advice to President-elect Donald Trump, who on Monday threatened to “terminate the deal” the Obama administration struck with Cuba: Don’t tear it all up, but watch Raúl very closely.
“If [Mr. Castro] takes steps toward reform, encourage them,” he advises. “If he tries to maintain the status quo and foreclose real reform, condemn the dictatorship firmly and take steps so that the regime is made to feel that bad behavior has consequences.”
It says something about the degraded state of Western politics that Mr. Castro’s life can still be celebrated by supposedly respectable political figures, while Mr. Ferrer remains a political unknown beyond a tiny group of Cuba watchers. It says something, too, that respectable opinion thinks of Gitmo as the ultimate symbol of moral barbarity, while it remains indifferent to the real hell next door. It’s that indifference that will have to change, if change is ever to come to Cuba.
However, the opinions of Trudeau and Trump about Castro don't matter much in the big scheme of things. We should pay more attention to the opinions of Castro's victims such as the Cuban dissident, José Daniel Ferrer, who is profiled in this column by Wall Street Journal columnist Bret Stephens.
Fidel’s Legacy—A Dissident’s View
A survivor of Cuba’s own Gitmo has a word for those mourning the late dictator.
wsj.com
By Bret Stephens
Nov. 28, 2016
To Justin Trudeau, Canada’s puerile prime minister, he was a “legendary revolutionary” who “made significant improvements to the education and healthcare of his island nation.” To Jeremy Corbyn, leader of Britain’s Labour Party, he “will be remembered both as an internationalist and a champion of social justice.” To Michael Higgins, president of Ireland, he was a tribune “for all of the oppressed and excluded peoples on the planet.”
And for Barack Obama, still president of the United States, he was a “singular figure” whose “enormous impact” would be recorded and judged by history.
Global reaction to Fidel Castro’s death has been instructive. Donald Trump minced no words: “Fidel Castro is dead!” he tweeted delightedly. By contrast, the progressive left hailed the dictator as a liberator for the ages, while conventional liberals treated him as complex character whose 57-year reign was less a testament to his brutal methods than to his charismatic appeal.
Castro “held on to power longer than any other living national leader except Queen Elizabeth II,” noted the New York Times in its obituary. It’s an intriguing comparison—except that one of those leaders shot pheasants, while the other shot peasants.
For a different view of Castro’s legacy I turned to José Daniel Ferrer. The 46-year-old leads the Cuban Patriotic Union, one of the island’s largest dissident organizations, which he founded after spending eight years in Castro’s prisons, including a stint in Cuba’s own maximum security prisió n provincial in Guantanamo. He spurned a government offer to exile him to Spain after his 2011 release, and since then he has led a dangerous battle against a regime determined to neutralize him. Václav Havel is one of his moral and political inspirations.
When I first met Mr. Ferrer in person in May, he spent much of the time detailing Cuban prison conditions. Wardens in lower-security prisons use inmates as de facto slave laborers in agriculture or construction gangs. Inmates in maximum-security prisons are stuffed into tiny cells and allowed an hour of sunlight a day. Political prisoners “face constant terrors,” including threats to their families. Beatings and torture are routine. “A prisoner has a bad molar. He complains. He gets beaten up. No medical attention.”
As for the Cuban Guantanamo, I asked Mr. Ferrer how he thought it compared with its better-known counterpart at the nearby U.S. naval station. He dismissed the American Gitmo as un jardín de niños—a kindergarten—next to its Cuban sibling.
On Sunday I followed up with Mr. Ferrer via email. He seems almost amused by the hosannas being showered on his former jailer by the West’s self-styled human-rights champions. “I’d just remind them they aren’t the first democratic leaders to eulogize a tyrant,” he writes, recalling progressive tears for Stalin and Mao. “Oppression, prison, misery and continuous exile was what Castroism brought us. I’m sure neither Corbyn nor Trudeau would ever want a ‘champion’ like Fidel Castro to lead their own people.”
Mr. Ferrer adds that the regime has shown no signs of letting up its repression, never mind Mr. Obama’s diplomatic opening. Ten of his organization’s regional directors have been jailed in the past six months. Fellow activists have grown accustomed to having their homes robbed and their equipment stolen.
“Raúl Castro is going to augment the controls and the repression, for fear of his brother’s absence as the central symbol of tyranny,” he predicts. “Raúl will continue to delay the process of opening up the economy, and the misery will continue.”
That view contradicts the optimistic belief that “modernizers” in the regime will move fast to relax government controls now that Fidel is gone. Like the Kims of North Korea, the Castro family is in the business of staying in power. It won’t tolerate an economic opening that undermines its political grip.
Still, Mr. Ferrer ticks off a list of factors—Fidel’s death, a restive population, an increasingly well-organized dissident movement, economic chaos in Venezuela, the collapse of left-wing governments in Argentina and Brazil—that have left the regime acutely susceptible to external pressure. His advice to President-elect Donald Trump, who on Monday threatened to “terminate the deal” the Obama administration struck with Cuba: Don’t tear it all up, but watch Raúl very closely.
“If [Mr. Castro] takes steps toward reform, encourage them,” he advises. “If he tries to maintain the status quo and foreclose real reform, condemn the dictatorship firmly and take steps so that the regime is made to feel that bad behavior has consequences.”
It says something about the degraded state of Western politics that Mr. Castro’s life can still be celebrated by supposedly respectable political figures, while Mr. Ferrer remains a political unknown beyond a tiny group of Cuba watchers. It says something, too, that respectable opinion thinks of Gitmo as the ultimate symbol of moral barbarity, while it remains indifferent to the real hell next door. It’s that indifference that will have to change, if change is ever to come to Cuba.
