conclusion

[EagerBeaver]

Magda,

I was not referring to JAJ. Perhaps you are not aware, but JaJ is a friend of mine whom I have met in Montreal on many occasions. He is a well educated man (mainly self educated), and although I disagree with his opinions on some issues, he certainly does not fit into the category of losers I have described.

 

[sybaritic]

Amen brother!

I find it disturbing that some have posted to suggest that Coralie is somehow responsible for Ponpon's behavior. The posters who think this way are misogynists in my view. What you pay an SP for is to create a fantasy/illusion of love and physical intimacy. When an SP succeeds in doing that, and making you think that she is your girlfriend, she has done her job. It is not "manipulation"; it is doing her job. When a hobbyist has trouble distinguishing the line between fantasy and reality that is HIS problem. When he cannot control himself and commits criminal acts he, and he alone, is responsible and accountable for those actions.

I do not wish to generalize about the nature of clients, but I totally agree with this statement.

 

[Lawless]

We should know quite well that we have to go back to what was written in the Fall of 2003 to know the full story as it was submitted to us at the time.
There were many threads at the time discussing relationship SPs / clients...we should not simplify the issue by casting the blame on one party only.
I know quite well that one is being paid to perform....and some are too weak to resist!
I must say I never had that kind of problem with any provider and I always look at that GFE approach with reserve...
Let's not oversimplify the issue!

Quite funny to refer to low income members.....!!!!
Once a year, I wish I were one....at time of writing my cheques to the tax peoples on April 30th!!!!

 

[Magda]

Magda,

I was not referring to JAJ. Perhaps you are not aware, but JaJ is a friend of mine whom I have met in Montreal on many occasions. He is a well educated man (mainly self educated), and although I disagree with his opinions on some issues, he certainly does not fit into the category of losers I have described.

Understood. I think he may have had a small cerebral cramp earlier.

On the topic of Community Service:

I am not certain what the particulars are here regarding Ponpon's case but ideally, in the situation of bad clients it would be more beneficial to this industry if there were classes offered to teach the proper etiquette and attitude when using the services of an SP. However, that is a long time off.

In the meantime, Stella's does produce a book called "Dear Client" that can be very educational and informative, (go down the page a bit). I will see if I can bring some with me to the Meet.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Actually, my last post wasn't about Coralie or any particular person. I slightly went off-topic and was generalizing and expressing my personal thoughts regarding some of my past observations and experiences. The person who posted ahead of me actually made his personal observation regarding Miss Coralie, not I. As for l'enfant terrible (described as such by Giselle on the FKS site) herself, i had the pleasure of meeting her twice over the years, and i must admit that i was quite taken by the lady. Not only with her skills, but she was a pleasure to talk with. I honestly cannot say a bad thing about her, nor would i.

As for Ponpon and posting here about the end of his 'penalty'...or whatever you may want to call it. I agree that it might be innappropriate considering the circumstances, but who knows why he did it. Maybe it was as a form of self-therapy, who knows. It could be that part of his probation included not coming to the boards and post for a certain period of time, and he couldn't wait to show up and post when his probation was over. I've met him once in the past, and he seemed like a very sincere and kind gentleman who realized that he had been wrong in the past. I must add that they did not have the typical escort/client relationship. What usually occurs when you see someone too often did happen, and they became very close friends at one point in their lives, and did care for one another. On which level, i'm not the one to say. I've also heard the lady's version of the events, and as usual, both versions differ. I've refused to take sides or pass judgement in the matter, since it's not for me to do so. Even though i barely know these two persons, i'm glad that this chapter in their lives appears to be over, and hope that these matters will remain in the past.

 

[Magda]

Hey JaJ, please pardon me if I had misread your post. It seemed out of character for you and I may have been a little knee-jerkish in my reaction.

However, for the record, I stand by what I said as it applies to the situation in general.

 

[thrustering]

Dee: great points. well said.

Tasmanina Devil: yes Coralie has issues that she has not realized yet. It reminds me of what Chris Rock said. "Many strippers say that they are doing it to get through school. That's mostly bullshit. How many college girls do you know wear clear heels. Girls are easier to raise then boys. With girls you have only one resposibility. keep them off the pole."

 

[Doc Holliday]

Quite true. I've heard the same story many times. "I only do this in order to pay my way through school." It is true for some, but quite an exaggeration for many of the others. They've forgot to mention that they only have 1-2 courses per semester; that the money they make escorting also pays for the trips to France, Italy, Spain, Caribeans, Las Vegas, etc. The money also pays for daily lunches at Mtl's finest restaurants......and clothing designed by Versace, Dolce & Gabana, Victoria's Secrets, etc. And one day, a few years later, many of Mtl's finest decide it's time to quit the profession and for them to start leading normal lives.....however, they often ask themselves "where did all the money go?"

My point is that very few of the ladies in the profession plan for the future. I've also met agency owners and hobbyists that feel the same way, however....but not the majority.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I don't know what happened but I think the following are verities:

1. Improper conduct towards a SP is (duh) improper, even if it has been in some way provoked.

2. One would be more inclined to have less animus toward a wrongdoer if he were deliberately mislead and taken advantage of by a SP.

3. It is a rare person indeed who acts 100% "properly" and rationally on the breaking up with one he thinks he loves.

4. We all slip sometime during our lives.

4. Once improper conduct has been punished we hope the misfeasor has learned and won't reoffend and while being a bit cautious we hope we can aid him by welcoming him back and not shunning him.

Well said! Nice to know/see that at least there is one person in this thread with a brain in his head !!!!

Yes we all slip. Those who don't are the ones we should worry about! I have been reading a lot about this case recently and it looks like there is a big mess out there. Needless to say ponpon wins in the long run by default since he is not the hooker but, allow me, the hookee

 

[Magda]

Dee, yes people do slip up but I am not about to give kudos for serving a sentence for a crime anyone commits. Proof they learned something is only evident after they demonstrate they learned something from the experience. Just because one serves time, doesn't mean they won't re-offend.

Tasmanian Devil, what ever do you mean? You comments are somewhat offensive. I most certainly have a brain in my head but that doesn't mean I have to have a bleeding heart for anyone.

Also TD: can you explain what you mean by:

Needless to say ponpon wins in the long run by default since he is not the hooker but, allow me, the hookee

What in the heck are you getting at there TD? PLus, you may not have noticed, (even though you claim to have been reading this board for a while), but no one here uses the term "hooker".

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Dear Magda,

WADR (with all due respect): My comment isn't offensive, it is reality.

Elaborating: The system has worked in favor of ponpon. It put him back on track, straighten him out, even protected him from bigger disasters, protected him from himself! Nevertheless, the same system has failed to help Coralie who is still way off track. Moreover, the system will never help her because of what she does for a living. The people behind the system will never take her seriously and will always call her with the word I used. In our little microcosmos we tend to forget the other 99% of the world out there that uses that word. Forgive me for the terminology I used in English. Please feel free to replace it with the word commonly used in the Quebecoise language. No ambiguities there.

That is a big dose of reality, my apologies in advance if I delivered it all in one shot.

 

[Magda]

Tasmanian Devil

Dear Magda,

WADR (with all due respect): My comment isn't offensive, it is reality.

Elaborating: The system has worked in favor of ponpon. It put him back on track, straighten him out, even protected him from bigger disasters, protected him from himself! Nevertheless, the same system has failed to help Coralie who is still way off track. Moreover, the system will never help her because of what she does for a living. The people behind the system will never take her seriously and will always call her with the word I used. In our little microcosmos we tend to forget the other 99% of the world out there that uses that word. Forgive me for the terminology I used in English. Please feel free to replace it with the word commonly used in the Quebecoise language. No ambiguities there.

That is a big dose of reality, my apologies in advance if I delivered it all in one shot.

Okay, that was alot to glean from your last post. I think I get what you are saying. HOwever, I am very much an anglo-phone and the word "hooker" is not generally used here. MERBites tend to use the term Service Provider, (or SP for short), or else Sex Worker (SW).

You are actually not quite right about the system not helping her. It is possible to get somewhat fair treatment even though you are an SP. We may need to be backed up a bit by advocacy groups, but it is possible. I am currently going through the system because I was assaulted by a client on a date. He has been charged, and for the most part the LE was fairly helpful. I also had Stella to back me up and why I became a volunteer there.

So yes, it is possible to be taken seriously as a Sex Worker and in future, we had better be.

In actuality, she was indeed taken seriously AND helped by the system because the one who offended her was given the consequence. So, I cannot fully understand your logic, and it really doesn't have much to do with the reality of this situation.

 

[Magda]

Hi Magda,

I did not suggest he be given "kudos". Nor would I suggest that he should receive no punishment. Being under restrictions for 3 years is no small thing.

You want a demonstration that they have learned something... maybe that is just another way of saying what I said: "while being a bit cautious". I don't think a demonstration can be given in a vacuum.

I agree that just because they have served their time doesn't mean they will not re-offend. It is equally true that: a) just because they have offended, they will offend again, and b) just because they haven't offended, they won't.

I think we have to ask ourselves: What is most likely to cause a person to conform to the norms we want to have him conform to? - 1. a constant expectation and fear that he will reoffend and a shunning of him for that reason, a ringing of the bell and cries of "unsafe" when we see him (forgive the hyperboyle), or 2. an acknowledgement and acceptence that he has done wrong, an expectation that he won't in the future, and an acceptence back into society (all the while being careful and prudent).

I'm not talking about a repeat, incorrigible offender.

I expect that we wouldn't have search long and hard to find some members here who we are satisfied are thoroughly decent people, who have seriously erred in the past and have overcome their errors.

Well everyone errs. I think I have a difficult time with this because there were some people here who seem to be hinting that it was the SPs fault that this person crossed the line. That wouldn't seem to imply taking any responsibility if the offender also took this position.

I am most certainly skeptical. I have to agree with MG_mtl, when they said:

I just don't get why Ponpon had to come back here and post about the fact that he had done his time and bla bla bla... If I had and addiction to sex or to SP's and was trying to get rid of my addiction (he probably was sentenced to do some therapy as well), I wouldn't come back here as soon as I was done ?! I would try and stay away from these boards and SP's all together...

See my point here?

 

[kneelongreen]

Do you notice that PONPON is not participating in this discussion. Probably part of a 12 step program where one tries to make ammends by apologizing. Whether anybody accepts it or not is not something ponpon has the power to do. I have a funny feeling he is refraining from SPs.

The system is not meant to be social service as it is meant to prevent people from harm to self or property. it's not really meant to enforce morals though one can argue. You can't sue somebody for failing your trust unless it breaks civil laws. You can't kill somebody over a civil case. You can't be a vigilante. Otherwise we are free to make good or bad coices about our life and suffer the consequences.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

I do sincerely hope to meet you all at the upcoming party. You sound/read like a fascinating group of people... some with a brain in their heads. Even thought I would love to spend the evening chatting with you Magda about the subject, I believe spending the evening naked rolling up and down a hotel king size bed, showering with champagne, applying whip cream all over, while making sure we don’t miss a spot from each others bodies with our tongues, would be much more relaxing. Sorry Dee, no TD for you

 

[VermontGuy]

Ponpon,

I am glad to hear that you have paid your debt to society. Does this mean you can now return to full time hobbying - is that the point of your post?

Actually he just started paying the court date was yesterday...


vermontguy

 

[ponpon]

for kneelongreen

ce n'est pas que je ne veux pas participer a cette discussion mais si je parle d'elle je contrevient a ma probation.
je ne sais pas ou je peux aller et ou je ne peux pas aller
de plus , en ecrivant ma sentence , je ne pensais pas partir tout cela

ponpon

 

[joeblow]

Salut Ponpon,

Si ton message original a soulevé tant d'intérêt ici, c'est que ton histoire a effectivement fait couler beaucoup d'encre en 2003 et 2004. Et pour cause, puisque qu'elle représente ce qui pourrait arriver à plus d'un, ici, si on oublie pour un instant que les bons moments passés en cie d'une escorte talentueuse et manipulatrice sont autre chose qu'un fantasme et une transaction. Tu es tombé dans ce piège, a commis des gestes répréhensibles, et semble avoir payé ta dette à la société. Comme tu risques de violer les conditions de la sentente, je te suggère amicalement de ne plus participer à ces forums.

Bonne chance,
JB

 

[kneelongreen]

I'm confused. Let me get this straight. The probation and community service starts now and not 3 years ago. I thought this case was was over a long time ago. I thought he pleaded out and already paid his pennance. He just is not allowed to talk to her anymore. Someone explain and stop this madness!

 

[HonestAbe]

Young people need guidance from family.

the large majority of providers that i've met through the years live day-by-day and haven't planned for the future. This seems to be a common denominator among the ladies. If this is the case with her, she's a part of the majority who ply the same trade as she does. No wonder most of them would like to retire from the biz, but keep coming back. No more money left. All spent on travelling abroad, vacations, shopping at expensive clothing or shoe stores, etc. Eating at the fanciest restaurants.....and in the LDL sector, going out all the time and partying the nights and weekends away. I won't get into what they spend a lot of money on, but it's related to partying. Sure, some save up and escorting pays their way to school. But it doesn't happen often.

JaJ,

I agree and would add that (In my experience anyway) this describes the vast majority of people in their twenties, male and female, no matter what they do for a living, as far as planning for the future goes. I think the problem is exacerbated even more if a young person has a bunch of money put in front of them and has no family or life long friends around to advise them to treat it properly. The Sp/stripper is a unique case however. I can't speak for all young Sp's/strippers but in my experience they don't even want their family to know what they do, let alone ask for financial advice. So it becomes the case for many of them that they lose their best source of support.

It is important that young people seek advice on their own from financial planners who can help them prepare for when they will no longer be able to make a living as an Sp/stripper. That being said, it is their choice to hang out with whoever they want, and participate in whatever it is that they participate in. Those choices are influenced to some degree by the people that they associate with. Sadly many of the people who are in these industries live a dangerous, frivolous, foolish lifestyle. Its quite hard for a young person to resist all the temptations which are placed in front of them.

If an unsavory character is able to infiltrate a young Sp's "circle of trust" they can wreak havoc on this persons life through ill advice and seeking to exploit them outright. This is the reason why it is illegal to live off the avails of prostitution, while independent outcall is not. Society sees the Sp in a more positive light (in Canada anyway)but deems the pimp to usually be an unsavory character who has no motivation to help the Sp plan for her future. As a matter of fact it is really not in the pimps best interest to help the girls since if they become well off they will not have the need to keep making him rich, thus he loses his meal ticket.

Sadly you can't save everyone, but organizations like Stella are doing important work and need to be encouraged and supported by the government and local communities so they can reach as many as possible. The money Sp's/strippers make should be able to give them a solid financial base to build a life upon, IF put in the right places. It is a shame to see them still at it when they should have moved on long ago.

This thread shows what a dangerous game it can be for an Sp to play on the affections of a love sick person in order to "maximize" profits and then dump him. I'm not taking sides between Ponpon and Coralie as I wasn't privy to the relationships intricacies but it has the sound of that kind of situation. If it is indeed the circumstance then she may very well have been trying to compensate for a frivolous lifestyle the way that a crack addict will steal from those who love them the most. Its sad that Ponpon fell into such a trap and couldn't control his anger. He must pay a price for his crime/s because he was judged buy a court but who knows what the price Coralie will pay is if she keeps engaging in fleecing lovesick men. She may very well have gotten lucky with Ponpon, there are some men who would do much worse than stalk or threaten.