Deletions and Edits

[eastender]

Deletions and edits are becoming a major issue on Merb.Within recent weeks a number of long time posters have deleted threads and posts for various reasons. The purpose of this thread is not to re-hash the reasons or re-visit the wars but to review the issue of deletions.

Basically any deletion changes the direction of a thread.Deletions of a thread impact the board at large since most threads border or have their genesis in other threads.The biggest problem with deletions is the creation of doubt and reluctance.Why should any member bother to read a thread/post,compose an answer, interact with the other posters only to see the efforts wasted because the thread starter has a hissy fit when they do not get their way?
If permitted deletes should be accompanied with an explanation especially if they are done by the mods to distinguish from poster deletes.

Edits are a different issue.It is one thing to edit for spelling,grammar or an omission but it is intellectually dishonest to edit in a fashion that changes the viewpoint or position of a post.The edit function has to be revisited and a policy about edits established.

 

[picasso]

Edits are a different issue.It is one thing to edit for spelling,grammar or an omission but it is intellectually dishonest to edit in a fashion that changes the viewpoint or position of a post.The edit function has to be revisited and a policy about edits established.

I'm 100% in agreement with you there, eastender. Also, another common scenario is that a poster would react to criticism with personal, flaming rebuttals and then realizes he may be censored by the mods and/or in the wrong and edits the post. I don't have a problem with that as long as the flaming insults are retracted.

 

[eastender]

Clarification

When a poster makes mass deletions of posts without explanation then it seems
to be an admission that the posts were not worth keeping and should not have been made in the first place.Furthermore it is disrespectful to the poster who used some of the deleted posts as a base for their posts.

Once a post has been made and replied to - either pro or con, then no deletions should be allowed.Just because something is policy elsewhere does not make it correct.Analogies to the print media come to mind.Once an article or letter is published the author cannot go back and ask the the newspaper,magazine,etc to cut-out the article.The author does have the right to comment again in the same magazine or newspaper renouncing the article,announcing that new facts have caused a change in opinion or issuing an apology.This is respectful of all concerned,does not misrepresent future articles or letter based on the article in question and basically is a sign of intellectual honesty.

The idea that posters are the sole owners of their post does not hold water given that mods edit posts thereby altering without the owners permission.
Within this context the board admits that it has proprietory interest in the post and this position should be extended to deletions.

Holding posters to such standards would force posters to think before posting.Would encourage posters to post without fear that they are wasting their time and would build mutual respect.

 

[chef]

..................Once a post has been made and replied to - either pro or con, then no deletions should be allowed...................

So, if there is no reply is it okay to delete the post ?

 

[eastender]

Open for Debate

So, if there is no reply is it okay to delete the post ?

Open for debate on a case by case basis.The problem that I see is that it allows
for quick cheap shots without any long term public responsibility or consequences.

 

[Techman]

I have a few suggestions.

1 - Posts should not be allowed to be edited without a reason being given and added to the post. The date of the edit should also be indicated.

2 - deleted posts should be replaced by a place holder to show that a post was originally there and the name of the poster.

3 - thread starting posts should not remove a thread when deleted. Perhaps the post should not even be allowed to be deleted and the member's name who made the post could be removed and replaced with a placeholder name such as "Merb Member" instead.

 

[eastender]

Good Suggestions

I have a few suggestions.

1 - Posts should not be allowed to be edited without a reason being given and added to the post. The date of the edit should also be indicated.

2 - deleted posts should be replaced by a place holder to show that a post was originally there and the name of the poster.

3 - thread starting posts should not remove a thread when deleted. Perhaps the post should not even be allowed to be deleted and the member's name who made the post could be removed and replaced with a placeholder name such as "Merb Member" instead.

Techman,
Good suggestions.Let's build by adding the following.

1.) with a different font or colour to hilite the edit.Coupled with hiliting the reason so that it does not get lost in the shuffle.

2.) only if no replies or not integrated into another post or thread.Would consider the post being hidden with the right to view if it is important to a thread.

3.) agree with preserving the rest of the thread.Not comfortable with someone walking away from what they start and being hidden by a generic "Merb Member" or "Thread Starter", a hidden from view or on request option.I still feel that from a practical standpoint if the thread starter would simply renounce the initial post it would impact positively on their credibility.We all are fallible.

 

[General Gonad]

Who GAFF?

eastender,

I prefer MERB because it allows the liberty to edit and delete at will. More degrees of freedom are better than none.

GG

P.S. Just so YOU know, I deleted something in my reply to SL regarding reviews because it was personal and he did not want it to be known on the boards. It was my mistake and I immediately retracted it.

 

[Kaempferrand]

Well sometimes we post intimate details not just about our encounters but also our feelings and it can get pretty personal and deep.

Having the ability to edit and delete is good to have but use it in good gesture.

I for one like to put my feelings in words at times, getting it off my chest and just delete it later on. Maybe not the next minute, next day or even next month but there comes a time that it has to disappear for personal reasons.

Yet as for in chat or PMs.. I just let it all out. Better than to keep it all in in my opinion.

 

[General Gonad]

I for one like to put my feelings in words at times, getting it off my chest and just delete it later on. Maybe not the next minute, next day or even next month but there comes a time that it has to disappear for personal reasons.

K,

Well put - you prove my point that more degrees of freedom are better than fewer.

GG

 

[Techman]

eastender, I like your idea of the highlighted edits.

When it comes to deletions it is really hard to come to a decision that respects everyone. There are so many variables when it comes to thread starters. Many times the poster is irrelevent to the thread. If the thread is a review thread then in that case I feel the poster's name as well as the post should remain. In generic threads, such as "favorite movie" and such, the starter is pretty much irrevelent as seen in the Yankees baseball thread, and the poster's name could be replaced by a placeholder.

If I ever retire from the board, or just fade away as will probably happen one day, I'd like to know that my posts will remain here. Others who leave prefer to erase every trace. I would actually prefer that deletions and serious edits to posts would require a mod's approval. But that would greatly increase their workload and I doubt that it would be practical.

Another thought would be to create a sticky thread that lists the retired posters and a short reason for their leaving if any exists.

One last thing...I think that members should expire if there is a certain time of inactivity on their user name. They don't necessarily have to be active in posting, thought that would be nice, but at least have to log on the board say every one or two months. Of course that would impact membership numbers which would in turn possibly affect the advertising rates that Fred Zed charges.

 

[Kaempferrand]

Yeah just be responsible about it. You have to police yourself.

Hey I know I am very guilty of this. Luckily most of the stuff I write in here is just joking around having a few laughs and do my usual sarcastic rants. I am sure many of you folks just read it or say "Hey there he goes again" and just let it go and not remembering it anymore. So I don't feel guilty in deleting them.

Honestly when I first joined in Nov 2004, I was in a near emotional wreck and this place was great when I had to put those emotions into words.

 

[eastender]

Freedoms and responsibilities

eastender,

I prefer MERB because it allows the liberty to edit and delete at will. More degrees of freedom are better than none.

GG

P.S. Just so YOU know, I deleted something in my reply to SL regarding reviews because it was personal and he did not want it to be known on the boards. It was my mistake and I immediately retracted it.

GG,
The more freedoms the better as long as the freedoms come with a greater sense of responsibility.

Re your PS - it was an edit not a delete.Save feature is a marvellous tool.

 

[eastender]

Good Reasons

Well sometimes we post intimate details not just about our encounters but also our feelings and it can get pretty personal and deep.

Having the ability to edit and delete is good to have but use it in good gesture.

I for one like to put my feelings in words at times, getting it off my chest and just delete it later on. Maybe not the next minute, next day or even next month but there comes a time that it has to disappear for personal reasons.

Yet as for in chat or PMs.. I just let it all out. Better than to keep it all in in my opinion.

Your point about intimate details is very valid and I for one would definitely consider it an exception.

Your other points lead me to belive that perhaps in the lounge or a designated area could be designated as Venting,Rants,Frustrations etc.No specific threads just a place where posters can let it all hang out knowing that after a set period of time the posts disappear.This would address your points and similar comments made by a few others.

 

[eastender]

Archival Preservation

This should only apply to posts deleted within a certain time period. For example within a month or so. Especially if that particular thread is innactive.
Who cares who "BOB CRANE" saw on that cold snowy night in Jan. of 03?!

Nooky,
Probably no one cares about who he saw but the unique writing style of Bob Crane certainly merits archival preservation.

 

[eastender]

Getting Interesting

eastender, I like your idea of the highlighted edits.

When it comes to deletions it is really hard to come to a decision that respects everyone. There are so many variables when it comes to thread starters. Many times the poster is irrelevent to the thread. If the thread is a review thread then in that case I feel the poster's name as well as the post should remain. In generic threads, such as "favorite movie" and such, the starter is pretty much irrevelent as seen in the Yankees baseball thread, and the poster's name could be replaced by a placeholder.

If I ever retire from the board, or just fade away as will probably happen one day, I'd like to know that my posts will remain here. Others who leave prefer to erase every trace. I would actually prefer that deletions and serious edits to posts would require a mod's approval. But that would greatly increase their workload and I doubt that it would be practical.

Another thought would be to create a sticky thread that lists the retired posters and a short reason for their leaving if any exists.

One last thing...I think that members should expire if there is a certain time of inactivity on their user name. They don't necessarily have to be active in posting, thought that would be nice, but at least have to log on the board say every one or two months. Of course that would impact membership numbers which would in turn possibly affect the advertising rates that Fred Zed charges.

Techman,

Like challenging replies.Many of the topical threads - movies,sports,etc draw
alot of interest mainly because they feature alot of back and forth banter no different than a bunch of people at a bar,at work etc.Perhaps this could be done on a Guest 1, Guest 2 etc basis where upon leaving the group the poster would get the appropriate Guest designation.

Not sure if this is the best time to discuss the retirement issue.Perhaps if the members can reach a consensus about deletions and edits such opinions would serve as a foundation for discussing retirement as there seems to be a linkage.Inactivity is linked to retirement as in certain cases it may represent a
period of reflection and I am not sure that a time frame should be placed on such situations.Inactivity from the standpoint of zero activity - disregarding PMs I would support your position but understand that the owners have specific interests as well.

 

[EagerBeaver]

I just deleted the thread I started on the next Celine dinner, as per Nooky's suggestion. It was dated, useless, and just cluttering up the Board.

Posters should always be allowed to delete dated, useless information, otherwise that info stays on the Board and fools people into thinking it is still good info.

I also agree with Nooky that reviews from 2003 are dated and probably should be archived. This Board should develop some kind of archive system by year so that these posts can be accessed and searched, but are not part of the main body of the Board.

 

[eastender]

Stretching

I just deleted the thread I started on the next Celine dinner, as per Nooky's suggestion. It was dated, useless, and just cluttering up the Board.

Posters should always be allowed to delete dated, useless information, otherwise that info stays on the Board and fools people into thinking it is still good info.

I also agree with Nooky that reviews from 2003 are dated and probably should be archived. This Board should develop some kind of archive system by year so that these posts can be accessed and searched, but are not part of the main body of the Board.

EB,
Somewhat of a stretch as one poster's useless may be another's historic precedence.Sure that you are aware of the value of precedence in your field.

Also we do not destroy old books with scientic writings that have been disproved rather we build and evolve around them using such writings as examples and tributes to scientific method and reminders of our own fallibility.

Restaurant reviews are interesting a few years down the road, serving to compare how a restaurant performed a few years ago to how it performs today.This could be extended to agencies,etc.

The creation of an archival system definitely has merit as it would make the main body of the board less cumbersome while making archival searches more efficient.

 

[EagerBeaver]

Eastender,

I don't think the Celine dinner thread had any value as it talked about a bunch of dates that are no longer realistic or feasible as we are now in August. Anyone is free to start a new, more timely thread on this topic and possibly suggesting or proposing other dinner dates.

I agree that some information from 2003 on agencies and restaurants is still useful. However some of it involves people no longer in the business, and we see time and time again these threads get revived and then someone posts and demands contact info, when none exists. Some of these threads are a total waste of bandwith.

As for an archival system I think it would be good to implement one for all of the review threads in the outcall and incall sections. I think 2003 and 2004 should be archived, and when we get to 2007, 2005 should be archived. Reviews are generally stale at the 2 year mark based on industry standards including average escort shelf life, burnout factor, etc. There are exceptions of course but as a general rule I think every year the Board should archive the 3rd year prior's reviews. I have seen this done on other Boards. 2 years back stays active on the main body and everything else is archived.

These are of course merely suggestions for the Moderators and Fred Zed and the MERB administrative management team. I don't know much about the technical aspects of the Boards so I don't know how they would go about doing it.

 

[eastender]

Time Sensitive

Eastender,

I don't think the Celine dinner thread had any value as it talked about a bunch of dates that are no longer realistic or feasible as we are now in August. Anyone is free to start a new, more timely thread on this topic and possibly suggesting or proposing other dinner dates.

I agree that some information from 2003 on agencies and restaurants is still useful. However some of it involves people no longer in the business, and we see time and time again these threads get revived and then someone posts and demands contact info, when none exists. Some of these threads are a total waste of bandwith.

As for an archival system I think it would be good to implement one for all of the review threads in the outcall and incall sections. I think 2003 and 2004 should be archived, and when we get to 2007, 2005 should be archived. Reviews are generally stale at the 2 year mark based on industry standards including average escort shelf life, burnout factor, etc. There are exceptions of course but as a general rule I think every year the Board should archive the 3rd year prior's reviews.

These are of course merely suggestions for the Moderators and Fred Zed and the MERB administrative management team. I don't know much about the technical aspects of the Boards so I don't know they would go about doing it.

Threads and posts that are time sensitive as the one you mention should come with an expiration date, likewise potential mini GT dates or venues,etc.
Similar to an end date for a poll.

Likewise certain sports threads that feature pre-event polls and predictions and post event analysis and banter.Perhaps after fixed period of inactivity
these could be deleted with no consequences to the overall board credibility.
Posters making frivolous posts just to keep a thread in view could be warned.

Quite correct that the logistics of an archival system would be a challenge.